The Off-Season Thread

[noleisthebest]

Tennis 2013 is over.

No more tournaments, no more matches.

Yesterday in the club lounge a couple of retired looking women carelessly chatted about their December plans: Barbuda, Jamaica, Florida....
I ran out straight away and had my coffee on the outside bench.
It was sunny just the same...

When I got home, I looked at tennis news and all I could read about were exo matches played in Southern hemisphere, naturally!
This week it's the retirement of Massu in Chile, next week Nalbandian in Argentina....Then that stinking rich Richard Branson and his Necker Island tennis jolly...

Me, I am staying put, hoping the weather allows as much play as possible watching Youtube clips, dreaming of summer and remembering.

Today, I remebered one of my sporting heros: Nadia Comanechi. 

She was one of those few athletes that could take your breath away. Federer of gymnastics. The spirit of Joy. Bursting with playfulness and inner sunshine.
This clip never fails to lift me up. 





How are you planning to survive the off-season?

Please share your wit, memories, good recipes, anecdotes, funny stories....

[bluenose]

We had lovely sun today and little wind, but 2C is a bit chilly for bench-sitting!  I'm going to Cuba for the first week of December, for snorkelling and birding and mojitos.  It's not so much a winter escape as a search for light.  I find this time of rapidly declining day length very dreary, and running the dog in the bitter winds on the dykes can be rather uncomfortable.  It's also nice to escape the pre-Christmas commercial madness for a bit.

[luvsports!]

As my name suggests I luvsports! Emphasis on the plural. 

I follow football, cricket, cycling, rugby, athletics etc but there will be a void from otf's absence .
Part time jobs, writing for newspapers , planning to work in france and do a nctj are my plans so far .

[noleisthebest]

I forgot about the Christmas madness!
Thankfully, they haven't started playing the Jingle Bells CDs in shops  yet...
Last year, I was mega lazy and put up Christmas decorations at 2 AM, 25th of December.
Not to mention the Christmas cards you have to reply to...what a waste of life!

[noleisthebest]

Planning to work in France, oooola-laaaaa!

[noleisthebest]

The more I think about the off-season, the more I wish I was a bear so I could go into hibernation.

[noleisthebest]

As my name suggests [b]I luvsports! Emphasis on the plural

I too used to be sport mad and followed everything: football, basketball, gymnastics, swimming, athletics, skiing, ice-skating...
I would spend all my meagre lunch-money on the sports newspaper every day and cut out articles and pictures for my themed scrapbooks: summer olympics, winter olympics, world cups, I even had stickers & albums...
I'd spend hours watching it all on TV and then copy them around the house.
I'd get so carried away jumping about and banging the ball on the wall, the next door neighbour once ran out of her flat thinking it was an earthquake.
My poor brother was even crazier, he would not only pretend to "play" a waterpolo match on the carpet, but also commentate like a pro at the same time.
Those were the days....
Now, dope has ruined it all, and the only thing left to watch is tennis, and even that is dying and dead-boring with all this 50 shot rallying nonsense.
You can see why I am so upset about it!

[Daniel]

I follow Tennis and Snooker and the Ashes in cricket, and also occasionally darts.  That's about it.  I am fast losing patience with Snooker, I have a big problem with modern tennis (but it's still pretty solid), and I have completely fallen out of love with football on all levels (due to how corrupt it is, and how money has ruined it), although I will watch England and big games here and there.

I mainly play tennis and darts.

[N2D2L]

Did you support Ronnie in snooker by any chance?

[Daniel]

I support flair players in all sports, so yes.  I certainly wouldn't be supporting Ebdon or Selby.

[Tenez]

I support flair players in all sports, so yes.  I certainly wouldn't be supporting Ebdon or Selby.

  yes very much alike.

Can't strand Robertson either as he is such a slow, gamesmanship player too.

As much as I will always support Osullivan I find it so painful to listen to his interviews!

[noleisthebest]

When I was following snooker, Mark Williams was skinny and I enjoyed his rivalry with Higgins and especially Hendry.
When Ronnie turned up on the scene, he actually got on my nerves with his rather cerebrally challenging facial expressions and esp his entourage.
Haven't watched any snooker for a long time, and judging from some comments here, it has gone down the pan in the circus direction as well...
Football...is just a joke now.

[Daniel]

Snooker has a LOT of issues... here are some:

1. Barry Hearn cares more about profit than he does about the actual skill and talent and ability of players.  As long as it sells, he is ok.

2. Snooker's power base is controlled by dinosaurs... that is to say, people who are completely out of touch with today's crowd and mindset.

3. The core fanbase of snooker is retarded and closed minded.  Traditionalist morons swamp the game, and stifle growth , development and financial success.

4. Snooker has gotten too easy for the professionals.  Most frames have one or two visits before it is over, often where a player is just sat in his seat as a spectator.  This isn't what snooker was designed for.  The shot clock would make it harder again, but I think a spin off improvement is needed to snooker, because it is fundamentally flawed, both in rules and structure.

---

To give you some examples:

1.  Snooker caters to slow, grinding players more than it does the flair type.  Instead of having some formats that favour the flair players (like shot clock), instead there is nothing. Slow players can deliberately bog down a frame/match, torment their better opponent and there is nothing that can be done about it.  Like with tennis umpires, they are let off almost all of the time for deliberate slow play and gamesmanship.

2. The current tournament on ITV4 at the moment is the "Champion of Champions"... a stupid name to go with a stupid gimmick.  Firstly, not all the players competing have won a tournament, secondly some of those wins have been very minor, and thirdly it's non ranking event.  And... if that wasn't bad enough, check this sucker>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Champion_of_Champions#Main_draw

The draw is separated into 4 sections... and each play their section before another. So... Selby was in the Semi final before the other 3 sections of the draw had even started.  It's the most retarded thing I have ever seen...  for reasons which are obvious to all of us except Barry Hearn.  It's just a sad little gimmick to try and make snooker look like it's "hip".  Also, the first round was a first to 4 frames match, which kills the whole idea of a "champion of champions".  Can you imagine the ATP Tour Finals being a First to 1 set? Or less?

3. The ranking system in snooker is the most laughable thing you are ever likely to see.

Snooker has completely disintegrated in recent years, and thanks to traditionalists and short sighted management, it looks set on course for more mediocrity.

Meanwhile... there has been a 55 minute frame between Ding and Barry... I bet ITV4 bosses are livid.

[N2D2L]

I watch snooker and Ronnie whenever it comes on BBC from time to time Siefer.

I'll be honest though, it's never been the most exhilerating thing for me.

[Daniel]

It's Seifer    My 606 days are long gone.  In fact, I'm only signed up to my own forum (RocketRonnie.net) and to this one now.  I avoid other forums like the plague.  I had no real intention of sticking around at v2, and ja606 was a bit lacking.  I am much happier this way too, because beating my head against rocks for 3 years was a colossal waste of my time.  Some of it was fun.

Who were you on 606?

[N2D2L]

Ah apologies, I get confused between Seifer and Siefer; unfortunately your name does not follow the i after e except after c rule

You said you avoided 606v2... but didn't you keep on coming back after you were banned; Seifer, then homogenised, then for a bit I think you made a new account everytime Nadal was banned etc. No?

Who were you on 606?

AmritiaStars

[paulcz]

Snooker has a LOT of issues... here are some:

1. Barry Hearn cares more about profit than he does about the actual skill and talent and ability of players.  As long as it sells, he is ok.

2. Snooker's power base is controlled by dinosaurs... that is to say, people who are completely out of touch with today's crowd and mindset.

3. The core fanbase of snooker is retarded and closed minded.  Traditionalist morons swamp the game, and stifle growth , development and financial success.

4. Snooker has gotten too easy for the professionals.  Most frames have one or two visits before it is over, often where a player is just sat in his seat as a spectator.  This isn't what snooker was designed for.  The shot clock would make it harder again, but I think a spin off improvement is needed to snooker, because it is fundamentally flawed, both in rules and structure.

---

To give you some examples:

1.  Snooker caters to slow, grinding players more than it does the flair type.  Instead of having some formats that favour the flair players (like shot clock), instead there is nothing. Slow players can deliberately bog down a frame/match, torment their better opponent and there is nothing that can be done about it.  Like with tennis umpires, they are let off almost all of the time for deliberate slow play and gamesmanship.

2. The current tournament on ITV4 at the moment is the "Champion of Champions"... a stupid name to go with a stupid gimmick.  Firstly, not all the players competing have won a tournament, secondly some of those wins have been very minor, and thirdly it's non ranking event.  And... if that wasn't bad enough, check this sucker>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Champion_of_Champions#Main_draw

The draw is separated into 4 sections... and each play their section before another. So... Selby was in the Semi final before the other 3 sections of the draw had even started.  It's the most retarded thing I have ever seen...  for reasons which are obvious to all of us except Barry Hearn.  It's just a sad little gimmick to try and make snooker look like it's "hip".  Also, the first round was a first to 4 frames match, which kills the whole idea of a "champion of champions".  Can you imagine the ATP Tour Finals being a First to 1 set? Or less?

3. The ranking system in snooker is the most laughable thing you are ever likely to see.

Snooker has completely disintegrated in recent years, and thanks to traditionalists and short sighted management, it looks set on course for more mediocrity.

Meanwhile... there has been a 55 minute frame between Ding and Barry... I bet ITV4 bosses are livid.

Great stuff about snooker, FK.
I played carom billiards at University when we had some free time. Those were the days.

I am also a fan of Ronnie, he and then young Trump are only ones I watch sometimes. But Ronnie's game pace is fascinating, one level above all others.

I finished with 606 when Nitb and Tenez were banned there. This place has been totally plagued by blockheaded fans of Nadal then and they fully started enjoying their celebrating stuff how they managed to clean out their forum. It  continues since then on.

[noleisthebest]

Just came across this fascinating clip. Laver taking on the 18 years younger than himself Borg on....green clay!
Some very interesting, familiar commentary lines as well.

[Tenez]

Nice piece of past tennis. It's clear how each shot is placed and hit with care.

It's amazing to see how 70s tennis is more or less of our local club tennis level. Sure we do not play with wooden racquets and nat strings (and that makes a huge difference) but the difference with Laver and the rest of us then is that back then not many could afford to spend all day on a tennis court playing with the best players.

I do not wish to devalue their achievement of course ...but just to put it in perspective!

[Polly 81]

Really enjoyed that! One of the things that struck me was the Laver serve - his right foot stays stuck to the ground. Compare to nowadays when so much emphasis is put on the height of contact with the ball helped by the 'jump'.

[Tenez]

yes noticed that ....and his right arm looks stuck to his body as a dead member.

[Polly 81]

Oh yes, didn't see that. Looking back, the game seems to have changed a lot in a relatively short space of time. It makes me wonder where it'll go next. What will it be like in 10 years? Maybe it'll slow down though (the speed of change, not the court speed!!)

[Tenez]

I guess so. If you look at some of the 2000-2005 matches they look as impressive as now if not more skill wise....but certainly no physically though.

[noleisthebest]

Seeing that clip only made me want to see Federer play with a wooden racquet even more, especially on grass.

His elegance makes Laver look pretty plain. In fact, almost all of today's SBH-ers would have been be wonderful to watch in those playing conditions.

[Tenez]

Yes though Federer would probably have been half as fit as now and would have never needed that extra fitness needed today. His eye/hand coordination would not have been trained as hard either but one thing for sure is that if he adapted so well to todays conds, he would have had no problem adapting to the then conditions.

And frankly I cannot say that of all players though it is most likely true for most.

[Daniel]

It's a world of difference today with the baseline defenders.

[Tenez]

Yet, strings much more than racquets is the reason for death of SVing.
 
The only way TDs can control the game is through surface and balls.
 
But they in turn, are controlled by money (I don't blame them) and long rallies is what sells nowadays!

[noleisthebest]

Yes though Federer would probably have been half as fit as now and would have never needed that extra fitness needed today. His eye/hand coordination would not have been trained as hard either but one thing for sure is that if he adapted so well to todays conds, he would have had no problem adapting to the then conditions.

And frankly I cannot say that of all players though it is most likely true for most.  

I thought of him playing now, as he is. Just out of curiosity to see in what way he would enjoy himself with the wooden racquet, what his swings would look like as well as his movement.
I am not even sure he would even look as good as he does with his Wilson, In fact, I can't imagine him playing in a more exciting way than he does when he is fit and healthy.

[laverfan]

Really enjoyed that! One of the things that struck me was the Laver serve - his right foot stays stuck to the ground. Compare to nowadays when so much emphasis is put on the height of contact with the ball helped by the 'jump'.

The rules of tennis have changed little since the 1890s. Two exceptions are that from 1908 to 1961 the server had to keep one foot on the ground at all times, and the adoption of the tie-break in the 1970s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis

A lot of Laver's initial training had him serve with one foot on the ground. It stayed with him through out his career.

The other rule change, which does not get a lot of mention is...

Earlier in Gonzales' career, rule changes were introduced to handicap his dominant serve and immediate approach to the net. When Gonzales simply found other methods of domination, the rules were disbanded.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/295913-a-portrait-of-pancho-gonzales-wimbledon-1969

During this time Gonzales was known for his fiery will to win, his cannonball serve, and his all-conquering net game, a combination so potent that the rules on the professional tour were briefly changed to prohibit him from advancing to the net immediately after serving. Under the new rules, the returned serve had to bounce before the server could make his own first shot, thereby keeping Gonzales from playing his usual serve-and-volley game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Gonzales

(Also documented by Bud Collins).

PS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SptdffCeVmM

[Polly 81]

Thanks Laverfan! Did not know that! Makes sense now.
Re: Gonzalez, that's hilarious. Imagine doing that to a player today.

[Polly 81]

Btw shortlist of contenders for Sports Personality of the Year is coming out tonight. I'm going to take a punt and say that Murray is definitely going to win this year.

[Tenez]

Yes I think he is bound to win it!

It would be funny they finally picked Taylor the darts champion for all those years of WC!  

[Polly 81]

Who watches darts? That would happen only if there was a petition for a mass phone-in to knock Murray off the top spot. (You going to start it Tenez?   )
Talking of petitions, Stan the Man posted this on his twitter account a few days ago. It's a petition to get Roger to play Davis Cup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCWUPbruL-4
(apologies for the language in the video title)

[Daniel]

Taylor really should have won it once... he is a big personality, a great guy and the greatest champion the world has ever known in games. Possibly only Bradman in cricket and Kasparov in chess contend with him, and even that's debatable because Taylor has played far more matches.

[paulcz]

Although ATP tour has finished this year, Czech tennis team extraleague is going to start since 13.-19. Dec. I like this session a lot because the semi and final is played close to my home but especially due to home nice atmosphere, where you can cheer players practically face to face. Last year I could spend some time sitting on the bench with representatives of our town players as Denis Istomin, Igor Sijsling, who are really nice players.
This year we will see Denis and Igor again, then Martin Klizan, Kohlschreiber, Seppi, Melzer, our Czech Davis Cup winners and others. I am going to take at least two days off my work to attend it.
Matches are played on cement, so sometimes it looks like serve fest, but at least you can see what the serve about 210km/h can do on such a surface. Fortunately Isner will not come this year

[noleisthebest]

That sounds good fun, Paul.
Big hello to all SBH-ers there (Sijsling and Kholi only?),  see if you can mix among the players and find out something "interesting"

[noleisthebest]

27 days till......no, not Christmas....FIRST MATCH OF 2014!! !  

http://www.atpworldtour.com/~/media/60C25F8F704943DDB0B9864FE2E38E5C.ashx

[Tenez]

Hi NITB - Looks like you are not enjoying the break! I am actually pleased there is no tennis. I am also pleased to know players are currently working hard in between seasons to max their chance next year.

I am curious to see who will benefit from the break first.

Nadal has quite a few points to defend in that clay season cause not only has he got the usual European clay tournaments but also the South American ones.

[noleisthebest]

Hi T, it's funny how quickly you start missing things once they are taken from you.
I was so worn out from 2013 and the way it panned out (the end of it did save the day a bit, though), I really didn't expect I'd be ready for 2014 so soon...
I looked at ATP website this morning and saw highlights of WTF final, a few roars from Nole, sour faced Nadal at the net, and that was me, raring to see more of it!
At least, the weather is mild, so playing is making up for those "watching" adrenaline rides...
AO is going to be fascinating with Nadal being desperate to win it, and Nole being the king of Melbourne (4 titles already, plus three in a row!), I dread the physicality it will bring, but can't wait to see those luminous blue courts and all that sunshine again!

[Tenez]

Hi T, it's funny how quickly you start missing things once they are taken from you.

Unlike me as I actually tend to forget about them. Must be Alzheimer.

I

was so worn out from 2013 and the way it panned out (the end of it did save the day a bit, though), I really didn't expect I'd be ready for 2014 so soon...
I looked at ATP website this morning and saw highlights of WTF final, a few roars from Nole, sour faced Nadal at the net, and that was me, raring to see more of it!

That's one I might watch in that dead season.

At least, the weather is mild, so playing is making up for those "watching" adrenaline rides...
AO is going to be fascinating with Nadal being desperate to win it, and Nole being the king of Melbourne (4 titles already, plus three in a row!), I dread the physicality it will bring, but can't wait to see those luminous blue courts and all that sunshine again!

when you think about it....so much waiting for a 3 to 5 hours finale......tough to be a tennis fan .

[noleisthebest]

Check out the 17 year old Serena vs 29 year old Steffi. I can't believe  the extent of Serena's physical transformation...

[Tenez]

Amazing how graf won that many slams without a BH. She would have o chance nowadays.

[Tenez]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcztC-A6XE8

Watching at that last WTF final, it really strikes me as dead slow. The moonballing is juat ridiculous but what is even more bizarre is how the ball simply sits on the baseline. Players have plenty of time to get to it but instead of using that time to pull a great shot, close to the net and line, they just send another moonball, often pretty short with little pace which is going to sit on the other side of the net baseline. It's wii tennis.

Look at the Serena/Graf match in comparison and you will see that the ball flies past that baseline.

[noleisthebest]

Amazing how graf won that many slams without a BH. She would have o chance nowadays.

I must say, I always thought she was overrated. Preferred Martina N. and Justine.

[noleisthebest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcztC-A6XE8

Watching at that last WTF final, it really strikes me as dead slow. The moonballing is juat ridiculous but what is even more bizarre is how the ball simply sits on the baseline. Players have plenty of time to get to it but instead of using that time to pull a great shot, close to the net and line, they just send another moonball, often pretty short with little pace which is going to sit on the other side of the net baseline. It's wii tennis.

Look at the Serena/Graf match in comparison and you will see that the ball flies past that baseline.  

I know....it's so embarrassing!
For all those years and years of several hours of practice a day, that's all they've got to show?!!!

(And charge $10 000 000 for 4 exo matches of it   )

[noleisthebest]

Look at the Serena/Graf match in comparison and you will see that the ball flies past that baseline.  

Yes, and when a winner is hit, the other player does not even attempt to get to it...because there is no chance of even getting close to the ball, let alone returning it.
Tennis truly was a different sport then...

[Tenez]

Look at the Serena/Graf match in comparison and you will see that the ball flies past that baseline.  

Yes, and when a winner is hit, the other player does not even attempt to get to it...because there is no chance of even getting close to the ball, let alone returning it.
Tennis truly was a different sport then...

That's the key. For 3 decades players were just trying to win winners. Over the last 7 years, it's been such a different tennis.

[noleisthebest]

You are right, these days you can see better tennis played in clubs by "normal" people.
Plus, there is no grunting and everyone hits the bar for a drink afterwards, not decaffeinated water and gluten free sushi

[luvsports!]

Ive started a post on the everything else thread about the great Mandela's passing.

Any tributes or words would be welcome.

[Tenez]

Ive started a post on the everything else thread about the great Mandela's passing.

Any tributes or words would be welcome.

Oh shoot!  

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