ATP World Tour Finals LONDON 2013

The service game has returned... for now.  But I just have no confidence this is going to keep up...  I've seen it too often lately.  And a tie break favours Del Potro.

Julia Santamaria wrote:And how is omitting Federers stats from the W/L from 28-32 cherry picking?
If not anything it's cherry picking on Federers benefit.

That is why I am saying it is difficult to compare until they are both done (and in fact even after that, for a variety of reasons).  But doing a countback down from the best year and so on seems just about the most reasonable thing one can do.

FedererKing wrote:Nadal will be long forgotten in 20 years anyway because people don't replay nadal clips or matches that much compared to shot makers.  That's just how it is.  He is just going to go into history as a bunch of numbers and "yeah but back then all the courts were slow."

You just watch.

Actually I hope he'll be remembered like we remember Lance Armstrong or Flo-Jo....for many years to come.

Julia Santamaria wrote:And how is omitting Federers stats from the W/L from 28-32 cherry picking?
If not anything it's cherry picking on Federers benefit.

JS,
I do understand you like Nadal and all that, but even a blind man can see how much better Federer is than him.
It's alright to admit it, believe me, the Sun will still rise in the East tomorrow

noleisthebest wrote:It's alright to admit it, believe me, the Sun will still rise in the East tomorrow

I am almost certain I remember you saying you did not like condescension.

both look so exhausted!

Here it is .... tie breaker. Always favours the better server... so if Del Potro plays like he has been, and Fed goes back to bad service mode, he's gone.  Come on Fed!

GO ROGER!!!!!  

stunning volley after a poor drive volley.

3-1 Ace!
Crowd willing feds on!

4-1! delpo nets the return.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:It's alright to admit it, believe me, the Sun will still rise in the East tomorrow

I am almost certain I remember you saying you did not like condescension.

You've got the wrong glasses SB, get the pair of long-sighted ones on!

This is better stuff....  he has to keep this momentum up esp in set 3 if he gets there...

At least his net play has been spot on today.

5-2 feds! Two serves and the set is his.

ALLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ !!

YESSSSSSS!!!!

That was a very impressive tie break for Fed given how inconsistent he has been this match...  if he can keep these levels up he can do it.  Del Potro looking tired....  He's proving me wrong anyway, I didn't think he had a chance.

Great!  Very good tie-break from Fed, except for one sloppy error,

I was expecting that at this point I would be writing how this now ended Roger's year and how I am hoping the next one will be better.

Good stuff from Fed there.

I actually think somehow that Federer would be a tougher match than Del P for Nadal, marginally.
Potro has just been quite poor, while Federer's been really good in patches.

summerblues wrote:I am almost certain I remember you saying you did not like condescension.

Thankyou  

I bravely resisted the urge to hide behind the sofa during the TB, and it was so worth it, just that I'm feeling a bit drained now  

Julia Santamaria wrote:Good stuff from Fed there.

I actually think somehow that Federer would be a tougher match than Del P for Nadal, marginally.
Potro has just been quite poor, while Federer's been really good in patches.

I disagree, If Del Potro isn't tired, I'd take his current form and play over Fed's.  NAdal is a bad match up for Fed (on slower surfaces) , and we've all seem Del Potro make an idiot of Nadal this year.  He has the game to beat Nadal and the belief with it.

Wait where were we about the W/L ratio. I was about to write something before the TB.

Ah yes... SB to clear up I did not just compare the current W/L ratio, as I can see Federer has played on a few more years.
Surely the fairest thing to do then is to compare Federer from 17-27, compared to Nadal during the same age period (ie his whole career so far).
That way any statistical advantage any player gets over the other in that period, is earnt and deserved.

Julia Santamaria wrote:

summerblues wrote:I am almost certain I remember you saying you did not like condescension.

Thankyou  

Yeah, vintage v2 chumminess  

FedererKing wrote:

Julia Santamaria wrote:Good stuff from Fed there.

I actually think somehow that Federer would be a tougher match than Del P for Nadal, marginally.
Potro has just been quite poor, while Federer's been really good in patches.

I disagree, If Del Potro isn't tired, I'd take his current form and play over Fed's.  NAdal is a bad match up for Fed, and we've all seem Del Potro make an idiot of Nadal this year.  He has the game to beat Nadal and the belief with it.

You're possibly right.
However you have to take into account, Federer has a great record against Nadal indoors.

Uh oh..

Julia Santamaria wrote:while Federer's been really good in patches.

But that is one thing which is not good enough against Rafa.  One has a better chance beating Rafa playing very well throughout rather than fantastic most of the match with a few poor games thrown in.

Oh come on!  NOT AGAIN!

SURPRISE SURPRISE

summerblues wrote:

Julia Santamaria wrote:while Federer's been really good in patches.

But that is one thing which is not good enough against Rafa.  One has a better chance beating Rafa playing very well throughout rather than fantastic most of the match with a few poor games thrown in.

Fair point.
It's just that Fed during those patches is playing much better than Del P in general.

I want to strangle that stupid blind lineswoman!!!  

If Nadal just did what Federer just did... be honest we would all be slating him.

Well done to the lines lady who completely wrecked that point.  Not that it really matters if Fed keeps throwing service games away.

Julia Santamaria wrote:Wait where were we about the W/L ratio. I was about to write something before the TB.

Ah yes... SB to clear up I did not just compare the current W/L ratio, as I can see Federer has played on a few more years.
Surely the fairest thing to do then is to compare Federer from 17-27, compared to Nadal during the same age period (ie his whole career so far).
That way any statistical advantage any player gets over the other in that period, is earnt and deserved.

Not clear that is the fairest thing.  It is a reasonable thing but it has its own pitfalls.  Suppose players A and B spend 10 years each on tour an have these winning percentages year-by-year:

A: 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, 90, 90, 90, 90, 90
B: 90, 90, 90, 90, 90, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80

Player B would look better than player A throughout, except at the very end of their careers.

noleisthebest wrote:I want to strangle that stupid blind lineswoman!!!  

And if I (a Nadal fan) did that, I'd be accused of murderous intentions.

Julia Santamaria wrote:If Nadal just did what Federer just did... be honest we would all be slating him.

I slate Nadal for CHEATING and GAMESMANSHIP, not getting angry at bad lines calls.  The former is unacceptable.

Fed is tired.

summerblues wrote:

Julia Santamaria wrote:Wait where were we about the W/L ratio. I was about to write something before the TB.

Ah yes... SB to clear up I did not just compare the current W/L ratio, as I can see Federer has played on a few more years.
Surely the fairest thing to do then is to compare Federer from 17-27, compared to Nadal during the same age period (ie his whole career so far).
That way any statistical advantage any player gets over the other in that period, is earnt and deserved.

Not clear that is the fairest thing.  It is a reasonable thing but it has its own pitfalls.  Suppose players A and B spend 10 years each on tour an have these winning percentages year-by-year:

A: 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, 90, 90, 90, 90, 90
B: 90, 90, 90, 90, 90, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80

Player B would look better than player A throughout, except at the very end of their careers.

Will given that the Nadal-Federer one is around 10 years between 18-27; I think from that you could say it's quite equal.
Overall I'd say my way is the most fair, if you are looking towards W/L ratios. If I wanted I could just compare the two ratios, and Nadal is far ahead there.

As for W/L ratios, wait until Nadal is 32.  It's totally unfair to compare players of these ages.

FedererKing wrote:As for W/L ratios, wait until Nadal is 32.

Well the point of what I'm saying is that I can exclude the stats from 27-32 for Federer... and Nadal still comes out on top.

what did feds do at the line judge?

Julia Santamaria wrote:

FedererKing wrote:As for W/L ratios, wait until Nadal is 32.

Well the point of what I'm saying is that I can exclude the stats from 27-32 for Federer... and Nadal still comes out on top.

That's because a. most courts are now slow and b. there are so few of Fed's favourite surface on tour, and TONS of clay.

FedererKing wrote:

Julia Santamaria wrote:If Nadal just did what Federer just did... be honest we would all be slating him.

I slate Nadal for CHEATING and GAMESMANSHIP, not getting angry at bad lines calls.  The former is unacceptable.

You could argue that Federer glaring and muttering towards a line judge is nasty and to the extent it may stop the line judge calling against Federer in a tight spot later on in the match.
Oh and I don't think capital letters really help your case.

Fed may be tired but the fire and fight are still burning!

GO ROGEEEEEEERR!!!  

noleisthebest wrote:Fed is tired.

Just accept he's declining and less consistent than earlier.
He can still break back.

What a rally.

Julia Santamaria wrote:

summerblues wrote:I am almost certain I remember you saying you did not like condescension.

Thankyou  

I actually sort of agree with nitb's reaction to this.

What she did earlier was a classic example of preach water drink wine but I called her on it simply because it looked funny, not because I wanted to "defend" you.  This is an internet forum, we are here to say what we think - mostly about tennis, not "support each other".

ROGEEEEEEEEEER!!!    

summerblues wrote:

Julia Santamaria wrote:

summerblues wrote:I am almost certain I remember you saying you did not like condescension.

Thankyou  

I actually sort of agree with nitb's reaction to this.

What she did earlier was a classic example of preach water drink wine but I called her on it simply because it looked funny, not because I wanted to "defend" you.  This is an internet forum, we are here to say what we think - mostly about tennis, not "support each other".

Why did it look funny? I don't understand you sometimes.

noleisthebest wrote:ROGEEEEEEEEEER!!!    

Told you he could still break back...