When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
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noleisthebest
Tenez
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:35 am
laverfan wrote:To get back on topic, a wooden YY (Yoneyama) in 1972 on a grass court.
It must have been hard to counter-punch in those days....
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by laverfan Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:17 pm
noleisthebest wrote:laverfan wrote:To get back on topic, a wooden YY (Yoneyama) in 1972 on a grass court.
It must have been hard to counter-punch in those days....
S&V ruled the roost.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by laverfan Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:29 pm
Tenez wrote:noleisthebest wrote:Tenez wrote:
If they speed up the courts talent will play a bigger role and therefore the DHBH might not be the best option then.
yes, but imagine fast courts and Karlo serving wide to your single backhand....
I'd say good on Karlo. He also has a SHBH and is talented.
I am pretty sure all the untalented DHBH physical players are killing the chances of Karlovic winning a slam.
SHBH == Talent (ever heard of Adrian Ungur
)DHBH == Physical
Since these are antonyms in a Tenez Thesaurus, the list of anti-Tennis must fill pages. Pretty sure a DHBH (Nalbandian) or Lendl (SHBH) may be anointed
with unlimited natural talent by special exception only.
Do I need a petition to have Soderling listed in the 'talented' column?NITB... watch Karlovic v Federer at W or Karlovic v Murray and see the SHBH v DHBH handling of Karlovic serve, or perhaps Karlovic v Hewitt @W.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:46 pm
laverfan wrote:BH)
NITB... watch Karlovic v Federer at W or Karlovic v Murray and see the SHBH v DHBH handling of Karlovic serve, or perhaps Karlovic v Hewitt @W.
what makes you think I haven't seen those?
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by laverfan Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:09 pm
noleisthebest wrote:laverfan wrote:BH)
NITB... watch Karlovic v Federer at W or Karlovic v Murray and see the SHBH v DHBH handling of Karlovic serve, or perhaps Karlovic v Hewitt @W.
what makes you think I haven't seen those?
noleisthebest wrote:yes, but imagine fast courts and Karlo serving wide to your single backhand....
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:48 pm
laverfan wrote:noleisthebest wrote:laverfan wrote:BH)
NITB... watch Karlovic v Federer at W or Karlovic v Murray and see the SHBH v DHBH handling of Karlovic serve, or perhaps Karlovic v Hewitt @W.
what makes you think I haven't seen those?noleisthebest wrote:yes, but imagine fast courts and Karlo serving wide to your single backhand....
You have taken the quote out of the context. Tenez and I were talking about about hypothetical scenario of surfaces being faster than what they are now.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Tenez Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:50 pm
You are really trying hard to sound smart, I can even picture you with a rictus grin while typing. However your logic is once again failing you. Saying SHBH are all talented doesn;t mean that DHBH are not talented. You can have DHBH as talented if not more talented than SHBH. BUt one thing for sure is that you cannot have a SHBH and not be particularly talented if you are in the top 100 while you can certainly make up for talent by increasing your racquets sweet spot by holding it with 2 hands....and run a bit more.laverfan wrote:Tenez wrote:noleisthebest wrote:Tenez wrote:
If they speed up the courts talent will play a bigger role and therefore the DHBH might not be the best option then.
yes, but imagine fast courts and Karlo serving wide to your single backhand....
I'd say good on Karlo. He also has a SHBH and is talented.
I am pretty sure all the untalented DHBH physical players are killing the chances of Karlovic winning a slam.
SHBH == Talent (ever heard of Adrian Ungur
DHBH == Physical
Since these are antonyms in a Tenez Thesaurus, the list of anti-Tennis must fill pages. Pretty sure a DHBH (Nalbandian) or Lendl (SHBH) may be anointed
with unlimited natural talent by special exception only.
NITB... watch Karlovic v Federer at W or Karlovic v Murray and see the SHBH v DHBH handling of Karlovic serve, or perhaps Karlovic v Hewitt @W.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by laverfan Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:14 pm
noleisthebest wrote:You have taken the quote out of the context. Tenez and I were talking about about hypothetical scenario of surfaces being faster than what they are now.
Karlovic v Federer Cincy 2008. (And Federer was did not lose his server in the entire match).
Tenez wrote:BUt one thing for sure is that you cannot have a SHBH and not be particularly talented if you are in the top 100 while you can certainly make up for talent by increasing your racquets sweet spot by holding it with 2 hands....and run a bit more.
Name a few players (not named Nadal or Murray, of course) who can "certainly make up for talent by increasing your racquets sweet spot by holding it with 2 hands....and run a bit more". Perhaps Ferrer.
Should Soderling be in this list, or Berdych?
Karlovic, with talent, as you say, has a 206/194 career W/L, roughly 50%. Surprising that he was unable to translate it to more than 4 titles in his career.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:42 pm
Murray is more talented than Karlovic.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by laverfan Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:08 pm
Amritia3ee wrote:Murray is more talented than Karlovic.
No he is not, since he has a DHBH and can run, he does not need talent, he is just a counter-puncher who managed to win a slam because of all the wind in the stadium. He should be grateful to wind-gods for the Slam trophy.
He won Olympics Gold because Federer was tired by his Del Potro match.
We can now debate how Del Potro won the bronze in a separate thread.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by sphairistike Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:22 pm
Tenez wrote:You are really trying hard to sound smart,[...] However your logic is once again failing you.laverfan wrote:
...
You hit the nail on the head there Tenez. But what's new? And as someone said on this forum, "we are not all naive" (oops, I am taking this out of context here
) . 
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:42 pm
lol.
LF is one of the most knowledgeable and objective posters I have come across.
Rather than calling her naive, perhaps you can address some of her points??
LF is one of the most knowledgeable and objective posters I have come across.
Rather than calling her naive, perhaps you can address some of her points??
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by mikeyM1000 Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:44 pm
"Played with a wooden racket"?
Is that a serious question, or some sort of euphemism?
Is that a serious question, or some sort of euphemism?
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Tenez Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:55 pm
laverfan wrote:
Name a few players (not named Nadal or Murray, of course) who can "certainly make up for talent by increasing your racquets sweet spot by holding it with 2 hands....and run a bit more". Perhaps Ferrer.
Your logic fails again LF.
All DHBHs benefit from having their 2 hands on the racquets when it comes to hitting a BH, whether talented or less talented. Djoko, Murray, Nadal, Nalbandian, Davydenko and co would not try to tease Federer through BH to BH rallies hoping for a shank cause chances are that they would shank before him if they had a SHBH. Federer is the only player nowadays who can "get away" with a SHBH. All the others have had their progression stopped since 2006/7. Federer just limited the damage thanks to his out-of-this-world talent.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Tenez Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:00 pm
You right. Nothing new there. LF is just trying to debate as usual.sphairistike wrote:...But what's new? And as someone said on this forum, "we are not all naive" (oops, I am taking this out of context here
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Tenez Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:06 pm
Amritia3ee wrote:
Rather than calling her naive, perhaps you can address some of her points??
You serious? It's like entering Knossos labyrinth...at the end you'd rather argue with Minotaur!
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by laverfan Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:09 am
Tenez wrote:All DHBHs benefit from having their 2 hands on the racquets when it comes to hitting a BH, whether talented or less talented. Djoko, Murray, Nadal, Nalbandian, Davydenko and co would not try to tease Federer through BH to BH rallies hoping for a shank cause chances are that they would shank before him if they had a SHBH.
... and Tsonga used an SHBH to beat Federer on grass after he was two sets up. Take a look at the match. Watch the third game of the third set and the BH pass.
Tenez wrote:Federer is the only player nowadays who can "get away" with a SHBH. All the others have had their progression stopped since 2006/7. Federer just limited the damage thanks to his out-of-this-world talent.
Lopez (who plays on talent alone based on your statement) had his career highest ranking of 15 on 30 Jan 2012. Gasquet played the final of Canada against Djokovic. Almagro's highest ranking of 9 is 2 May 2011. Kohlschreiber beat your favourite Rosol with an SHBH. Should I mention Haas with an SHBH? Garcia-Lopez's highest ranking of 23 is 21 Feb 2011. Ljubicic winning IW 2010 with an SHBH. Do you need more examples?
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:42 am
Tenez wrote:
Federer is the only player nowadays who can "get away" with a SHBH. All the others have had their progression stopped since 2006/7. Federer just limited the damage thanks to his out-of-this-world talent.
Spot on!
Sadly, he will be the last player to win a slam with a SBH.
I would love to be wrong, but as things stand that seems inevitable.
Hence, enjoy it as much as possible while it lasts!
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Tenez Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:13 am
laverfan wrote:
... and Tsonga used an SHBH to beat Federer on grass after he was two sets up. Take a look at the match. Watch the third game of the third set and the BH pass.
You cannot be serious! Are you saying that Tsonga superior SHBH is what beat Federer that day? And you are the one who should rewatch that match. You might see Federer's returning in sets 3 to 5 is not nearly as good as set 1 &2 for "some" reasons.
Lopez (who plays on talent alone based on your statement) had his career highest ranking of 15 on 30 Jan 2012. Gasquet played the final of Canada against Djokovic. Almagro's highest ranking of 9 is 2 May 2011. Kohlschreiber beat your favourite Rosol with an SHBH. Should I mention Haas with an SHBH? Garcia-Lopez's highest ranking of 23 is 21 Feb 2011. Ljubicic winning IW 2010 with an SHBH. Do you need more examples?
This paragraph summarises again why it's impossible to have a proper discussion with you. You throw in irrelevant data of SHBH players having a good stretch and more absurd examples of Kohli beating Rosol.
You really need more sleep or Holidays.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:22 am
There was a good discussion on v2 on SHBHvsDHBH.
Lydian argued that due to technology changes the DHBH is being favoured.
Lydian argued that due to technology changes the DHBH is being favoured.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:25 am
Lydian wrote:Socal, the 2 hander wasn't designed to come over the ball either...Jimmy Connors, its first real proponent hit it pretty flat. As did Borg actually. Laver was top spinning with SHBH long before Connors.
Let's face it DHBH are all the rage now that courts have slowed and coaches all teach the same way, using standard low risk ways of playing.
I play at a highish level (county level you might call it) and have a SH topspin BH. I can return 100+mph serves no problem with it. That guy at your club spending 1000s dollars on learning SHBH probably would have been a poor player with a DHBH too. Some people just don't 'get' it or just don't 'have' it at tennis period. Sure he might get a few more in court witha DHBH but it won't transform his game. Talent to play is talent to play.
Juniors are nearly all coached with DHBHs now...kids start earlier these days and coaching is much more structured and rigorous than it used to be. In UK kids learning mini-red and orange tennis (5-9 year olds) get taught DHBHs as well as getting a Babolat racquet thrust into their hands too. Young kids don't have the strength to hold a racquet with 1 hand on the BH side. By the time they are grooved at 10 years old, it's very hard to switch. But as LF has said it can be done - Sampras!!! So why did he change?
1. SHBH gives you more feel for the ball....SHBHers nearly always have better slices (Federer gets 5000rpm on his BH slice, as much as the topspin Nadal gets on his FH) and BH volleys.
2. You could block the serve back on fast surfaces better...SHBH allows for more flexibility of shot.
3. It allows a 'chip and charge'...still a very underused tactic in my book in this risk averse era of playing
4. It gives more reach outwide.
5. I believe a SHBH can create more angles.
6. It looks a whole better!!!
I think the preponderance of DHBH is due to court speeds and laziness with coaches all following each other like sheep. There is no technical reason why a SHBH cannot cut it in this era still...and it still does! But until courts speed up you won't see more of them appear. But they won't disappear either...it gives advantages still, and attacking players can use those advantages.
...after all you'll note that those players who attack the most on tour tend to have SHBHs...funny that hey?
SHBH is the shot of the attacking player...we just need attacking tennis to become de rigeur again.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:28 am
Lydian 
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Tenez Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:42 am
Well amri, if you see LF as a knowledgeable poster and then now Lydian I am afraid I cannot help you. 
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:54 am
Lydian is a genius.
He's actually supporting SHBH here as well.
He's actually supporting SHBH here as well.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:25 pm
Amritia3ee wrote:Lydian is a genius.
He's actually supporting SHBH here as well.
Cooo Amri, your standards are really low. Either that or your command of English is not that "genius".
Lydian was ok because he liked debating and was not getting emotionally overheated like most Nadal fans, but generally verbose and not insightful. I was very disappointed with finding out that he was among those who led the moaning to v2 mods in order to ban Tenez, just because he/they could not stand him knowing more than them.
Isn't that vain and childish?
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by mikeyM1000 Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:23 pm
Oh my God, I dont know who these all other posters are that people keep slagging off, but Tenez and noleisthebest are so smug and patroning and up each other's bums it's a bit sick-inducing.
We get it guys - your the only people that know anything about tennis
We get it guys - your the only people that know anything about tennis
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:54 pm
mikeyM1000 wrote:Oh my God, I dont know who these all other posters are that people keep slagging off, but Tenez and noleisthebest are so smug and patroning and up each other's bums it's a bit sick-inducing.
We get it guys - your the only people that know anything about tennis
oh mikey,
why so self-deprecating....I'm sure you know a thing or two as well, just haven't got round to sharing it with us.
So rather than just being your usual pain in the neck, do say something on the topic for a change....
also, feel free to reveal your v2 or ja606 ID if you have the guts to.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by mikeyM1000 Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:16 pm
I never played with wooden rackets - before my time.
Don't see much point posting just to get told I'm wrong or get slated.
I wanted to join to roast Rafa without getting banned - but the buggers gone and stopping playing. I might post here more often but don't fancy the slagging off for not being as clever about tennis as you guys.
I'm not on other sites but I could go there and find a name if that helps you think I have guts - thanks for slagging me off for not doing something I cant do
Don't see much point posting just to get told I'm wrong or get slated.
I wanted to join to roast Rafa without getting banned - but the buggers gone and stopping playing. I might post here more often but don't fancy the slagging off for not being as clever about tennis as you guys.
I'm not on other sites but I could go there and find a name if that helps you think I have guts - thanks for slagging me off for not doing something I cant do
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:18 pm
mikeyM1000 wrote:I never played with wooden rackets - before my time.
I'm not on other sites but I could go there and find a name if that helps you think I have guts - thanks for slagging me off for not doing something I cant do
Beatles and Mozart were before my time, as well, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying them.
As for other sites/IDs, fair enough, how did you find out about this one, I am dying to know!
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by mikeyM1000 Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:42 pm
I thought the question was when I played with a wooden racket. I never have.
I watch other sites now and then and saw about this one - i think it must have been Tenez' name - and thought at least I could join without getting banned for posting on Nadals PEDs. If he starts playing again I might carry on. I was going to join ja606 but never got around to it and it seemd to die out - not looked for a while.
All I know is if I say something wrong and try to argue it looks like I'll get told I'm wrong again or don't have logic or whatever by the guys on the site - probably true 'cos I'm not like a student of tennis, but I don;t fancy getting told it over and over again
It's like there's a clique and if your not in it no-ones going to be nice to you, they're going to slate you.
I watch other sites now and then and saw about this one - i think it must have been Tenez' name - and thought at least I could join without getting banned for posting on Nadals PEDs. If he starts playing again I might carry on. I was going to join ja606 but never got around to it and it seemd to die out - not looked for a while.
All I know is if I say something wrong and try to argue it looks like I'll get told I'm wrong again or don't have logic or whatever by the guys on the site - probably true 'cos I'm not like a student of tennis, but I don;t fancy getting told it over and over again
It's like there's a clique and if your not in it no-ones going to be nice to you, they're going to slate you.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:40 pm
lol. My command of English is alrightnoleisthebest wrote:Amritia3ee wrote:Lydian is a genius.
He's actually supporting SHBH here as well.
Cooo Amri, your standards are really low. Either that or your command of English is not that "genius".
Lydian was ok because he liked debating and was not getting emotionally overheated like most Nadal fans, but generally verbose and not insightful. I was very disappointed with finding out that he was among those who led the moaning to v2 mods in order to ban Tenez, just because he/they could not stand him knowing more than them.
Isn't that vain and childish?
Lydian 'not insightful'???
I disagree with you there, IMO he's the most insightful poster. Of course you don't like Nadal (you keep on repeating he is the 'death of tennis' etc.) so I can see unless he doesn't like Nadal you won't find him 'insightful.'
Your choice, NITB your choice.
btw he didn't 'moan' to anyone to get you guys banned. The 606v2 admin came to an unanimous decision to go ahead with it, Lydian is not part of the admin. Anyway it's their forum, their call, nothing wrong with that.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:43 pm
Personally I like talking to anyone about tennis, even if they are a beginner just getting interested in the sport, or someone who has watched for a long time.mikeyM1000 wrote:Oh my God, I dont know who these all other posters are that people keep slagging off, but Tenez and noleisthebest are so smug and patroning and up each other's bums it's a bit sick-inducing.
We get it guys - your the only people that know anything about tennis
What I like is that different people have different opinions, and we can debate with them without people getting patronising or aggressive.
Sometimes there is no 'right' but just different ways you can view something.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:19 pm
mikeyM1000 wrote:I thought the question was when I played with a wooden racket. I never have.
I watch other sites now and then and saw about this one - i think it must have been Tenez' name - and thought at least I could join without getting banned for posting on Nadals PEDs. If he starts playing again I might carry on. I was going to join ja606 but never got around to it and it seemd to die out - not looked for a while.
All I know is if I say something wrong and try to argue it looks like I'll get told I'm wrong again or don't have logic or whatever by the guys on the site - probably true 'cos I'm not like a student of tennis, but I don;t fancy getting told it over and over again
It's like there's a clique and if your not in it no-ones going to be nice to you, they're going to slate you.
You barge in kicking the door open with your muddy boots, dump yourself on a nice cream sofa and start demanding a wooden chair.
The thing is Mikey, you don't come here to talk about tennis, that's the problem.
Please write an article on PEDs, there are a few people here who know a bit about them (I don't have a clue, except a bit in theory, plus there are few threads talking about it, just sieve through them all and comment if you like)), I'd love to see your view and explanation of how it works in today's tennis.
ALl of us here suspect there's a lot going on, but if you know any more just share!
If you did you'd have a fabulous time
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by laverfan Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:05 pm
Tenez wrote:laverfan wrote:
... and Tsonga used an SHBH to beat Federer on grass after he was two sets up. Take a look at the match. Watch the third game of the third set and the BH pass.
You cannot be serious! Are you saying that Tsonga superior SHBH is what beat Federer that day? And you are the one who should rewatch that match. You might see Federer's returning in sets 3 to 5 is not nearly as good as set 1 &2 for "some" reasons.
This is an excuse for Federer's loss.
'Some' reasons. Is this now the standard answer when you cannot find one? Tenez wrote:Lopez (who plays on talent alone based on your statement) had his career highest ranking of 15 on 30 Jan 2012. Gasquet played the final of Canada against Djokovic. Almagro's highest ranking of 9 is 2 May 2011. Kohlschreiber beat your favourite Rosol with an SHBH. Should I mention Haas with an SHBH? Garcia-Lopez's highest ranking of 23 is 21 Feb 2011. Ljubicic winning IW 2010 with an SHBH. Do you need more examples?
This paragraph summarises again why it's impossible to have a proper discussion with you. You throw in irrelevant data of SHBH players having a good stretch and more absurd examples of Kohli beating Rosol.
You really need more sleep or Holidays.
What I need is my business? You make a statement that SHBH have stopped progressing since 2006/07, and my examples, which contradict your statement, are because I cannot have a proper discussion with you and the legion of your cohorts (as Mikey) points out.
The Rosol example was to show you inconsistency as the downfall of any player, whether SHBH or DHBH is irrelevant. Since Rosol is revered on this forum for his ability and Karlovic with a 50% W/L is talented, carry on.
I also find it interesting that when you are incapable of a coherent debate, you point to lack of my sleep. I wonder who needs it more?
@Amri.. Let us not drag Lydian on here.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Tenez Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:20 pm
The thing is I am not the only one who thinks you are impossible to debate with. Sphair has given up, rotla loses his temper when he does and even gentle SB had to lesson you a few times on the stat subject but you refused to admit you were wrong.laverfan wrote:
I also find it interesting that when you are incapable of a coherent debate, you point to lack of my sleep. I wonder who needs it more?
By throwing a few examples where a SHBH has had some poor form of success you are trying to deny the fact that SHBHers have, bar Federer, had a miserable success compared to the 90s and even up to 2007 when you could have 2 SHBH in a slam final. In 2004 one player was even able to win at the FO with SHBH. The 1990s is plagued with SHBHers winning right and left and often you had 4 of them in the semi.
But yes your Rosol Kholi example just shows how irrelevant your arguments can be. You are shooting yourself in the foot, so to speak.
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:26 pm
laverfan wrote:
What I need is my business? You make a statement that SHBH have stopped progressing since 2006/07, and my examples, which contradict your statement, are because I cannot have a proper discussion with you and the legion of your cohorts (as Mikey) points out.
Of course they have stopped progressing. Get Federer out of the picture and tell me when was the last time a single backhander won a slam.
Again, as soon as you can't get your own way, you throw a tantrum and start insulting people.
A Laver fan should have learned how to agree to disagree by now.
I am surprised you chose to have a go at Tenez and not me as I have far more radical views on single backhand than him. I hope it's not a personal vendetta.
Some people just seem to come here and try to disprove him for the sake of it for some reason. Disagreeing and debating is one thing but constantly having a go is another however well concealed it is.
Maybe you are not aware of it, but that's how it comes across.
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by mikeyM1000 Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:03 pm
[quote="noleisthebest"]
I don't know more about it than anyone else - just go on what I read online and see on TV. Can't add anything new, just wanted a place to talk about it, but he's not even playing, so theres not much point.
I reckon your challenging me to write a clever post because you don;t think I can - your probably right, I can't - sorry I don't meet your standards I hope that makes you feel as superior as you want to be. I can see how people get treated here if they're not up to scratch. Personally I;ve never seen the need to slate people just because they disagree with you or even because they don;t know as much as you.
mikeyM1000 wrote:The thing is Mikey, you don't come here to talk about tennis, that's the problem.
Please write an article on PEDs, there are a few people here who know a bit about them (I don't have a clue, except a bit in theory, plus there are few threads talking about it, just sieve through them all and comment if you like)), I'd love to see your view and explanation of how it works in today's tennis.
I don't know more about it than anyone else - just go on what I read online and see on TV. Can't add anything new, just wanted a place to talk about it, but he's not even playing, so theres not much point.
I reckon your challenging me to write a clever post because you don;t think I can - your probably right, I can't - sorry I don't meet your standards I hope that makes you feel as superior as you want to be. I can see how people get treated here if they're not up to scratch. Personally I;ve never seen the need to slate people just because they disagree with you or even because they don;t know as much as you.
mikeyM1000- Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:03 pm
LF... I'm not dragging anyone into anything. The fact is there are some misconceptions about Lydian, and many have made him scapegoat for no reason.
Better to clear it up so people understand the truth, rather than believing false stories about him.
Even on this thread Tenez said that if I see LF as a knowledgeable poster:
'I am afraid I cannot help you.
'
So directly implying that LF is not knowledgeable about tennis, quite patronising.
Also then sarcastically advising him to 'get more sleep' which once again is quite patronising.
So I don't see how you think that LF is the one who said those things here.
I remember both SB and I were arguing against LF once on the topic of the draw distribution, we were arguing that it is not necessary that the seedings being balanced means there is no rigging. I can't remember sarcastically advising LF to 'get more sleep' or saying he was not knowledgeable.
Better to clear it up so people understand the truth, rather than believing false stories about him.
Well, I agree with you, but I think it's Tenez who has a personal vendetta against LF, rather than the other way round.noleisthebest wrote:I hope it's not a personal vendetta.
Disagreeing and debating is one thing but constantly having a go is another however well concealed it is.
Maybe you are not aware of it, but that's how it comes across.
Even on this thread Tenez said that if I see LF as a knowledgeable poster:
'I am afraid I cannot help you.
' So directly implying that LF is not knowledgeable about tennis, quite patronising.
Also then sarcastically advising him to 'get more sleep' which once again is quite patronising.
So I don't see how you think that LF is the one who said those things here.
I remember both SB and I were arguing against LF once on the topic of the draw distribution, we were arguing that it is not necessary that the seedings being balanced means there is no rigging. I can't remember sarcastically advising LF to 'get more sleep' or saying he was not knowledgeable.
Larry Ellison- Posts : 1222
Join date : 2012-07-21
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:06 pm
Tenez, you are right there are many more DHBH players now in the top 100 compared to the 90's.
So?
The DHBH is a very effective shot, and has many advantages. look at how good Djokovic is at returning serve. Better than Federer.
So?
The DHBH is a very effective shot, and has many advantages. look at how good Djokovic is at returning serve. Better than Federer.
Larry Ellison- Posts : 1222
Join date : 2012-07-21
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by noleisthebest Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:17 pm
mikeyM1000 wrote:
I reckon your challenging me to write a clever post because you don;t think I can - your probably right, I can't - sorry I don't meet your standards I hope that makes you feel as superior as you want to be. I can see how people get treated here if they're not up to scratch. Personally I;ve never seen the need to slate people just because they disagree with you or even because they don;t know as much as you.
Mikey,
stop being a big baby and feeling sorry for yourself!
A lot of us here have strong opinions and don't have problem expressing them (in a civilised manner, not resorting to vulgar language which you did more than once).
Anyway, feel free to contribute once you get over yourself
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by mikeyM1000 Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:39 pm
Free speech I was told - that can be civilised or uncivilised can't it? Is smashing a tennis racket in front of thousands of people civilised? Or telling the umpire 'Don't tell me the effing rules' - see I'm politer than Federer?
I don't feel sorry for myself - I'm a pretty nice bloke overall. I feel a bit sorry for people who aren't so nice.
I don't feel sorry for myself - I'm a pretty nice bloke overall. I feel a bit sorry for people who aren't so nice.
mikeyM1000- Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Tenez Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:35 pm
[quote="mikeyM1000"]
Mickey you are welcome here. It's not about what you know, it about having a chat about tennis, that's all. Some of us are passionate and have been following it for years but at the end of teh day we have been following it through our own glasses and none of us have universal or objective glasses. We just like to believe we are doing our best to be objective when addressing players and the sport.noleisthebest wrote:mikeyM1000 wrote:The thing is Mikey, you don't come here to talk about tennis, that's the problem.
Please write an article on PEDs, there are a few people here who know a bit about them (I don't have a clue, except a bit in theory, plus there are few threads talking about it, just sieve through them all and comment if you like)), I'd love to see your view and explanation of how it works in today's tennis.
I don't know more about it than anyone else - just go on what I read online and see on TV. Can't add anything new, just wanted a place to talk about it, but he's not even playing, so theres not much point.
I reckon your challenging me to write a clever post because you don;t think I can - your probably right, I can't - sorry I don't meet your standards I hope that makes you feel as superior as you want to be. I can see how people get treated here if they're not up to scratch. Personally I;ve never seen the need to slate people just because they disagree with you or even because they don;t know as much as you.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Tenez Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:39 pm
Amritia3ee wrote:
Well, I agree with you, but I think it's Tenez who has a personal vendetta against LF, rather than the other way round.
Nah! read from the beginning and you will get the sarcastic tone of LF, trying to be Mrs Right with a rictus grin.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by laverfan Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:09 am
Tenez wrote:The thing is I am not the only one who thinks you are impossible to debate with. Sphair has given up, rotla loses his temper when he does and even gentle SB had to lesson you a few times on the stat subject but you refused to admit you were wrong.laverfan wrote:
I also find it interesting that when you are incapable of a coherent debate, you point to lack of my sleep. I wonder who needs it more?
I no longer debate with Sphair, I have not need to or desire to. Threats of 'meanness' are lowest form of debating skills and derisible.
I debate with you because you seem to think there is no talent bar Federer, because that is a disservice to anyone not named Federer.
I am not responsible for others who lose their tempers. Rational capabilities exist in everyone. It is a matter of choice.
SB and I disagree and both of us understand it very well. It has nothing to do with stats, but hypothetical examples to suit a specific hypothesis (see the King and Dragon debate).
Tenez wrote:By throwing a few examples where a SHBH has had some poor form of success you are trying to deny the fact that SHBHers have, bar Federer, had a miserable success compared to the 90s and even up to 2007 when you could have 2 SHBH in a slam final. In 2004 one player was even able to win at the FO with SHBH. The 1990s is plagued with SHBHers winning right and left and often you had 4 of them in the semi.
If SHBHers refuse to adapt themselves to the changing scene of Tennis reality, they will extinct because of their own choices. A SHBH and a DHBH, despite their differences is just a shot in an entire repertoire of a Tennis player. Wawrinka is another example who actually prefers to duel with his BH.
Adaptability to conditions is a good measure of a player. Federer could not adapt to sticky mud and lost at FO to Soderling, so what, it was just a match. He lost to Berdych, who was better on that day.
Notice that Djokovic and Nadal could not adapt to blue clay, but Verdasco, Berdych and Federer did and did not complain as loudly as others and got on with Tennis in prevalent conditions.
Each player chooses how they play. The SHBH is not anymore exalted than a DHBH, at the end of the day, it is a Tennis match and there is a winner and a loser, no more, no less. A player wins or loses based on the how they use what they have.
Tenez wrote:But yes your Rosol Kholi example just shows how irrelevant your arguments can be. You are shooting yourself in the foot, so to speak.
Rosol is an example of a player who is inconsistent, despite a big win. As I have stated, consistency (like Ferrer) is much more appealing to me personally, then a once-in-a-lifetime match a player plays. There are many such examples. Karlovic v Federer Cincy 2008, Karlovic v Hewitt W 2003, ....
I personally have no preference for an SHBH or DHBH, I had much rather see a good contest on the Tennis court.
laverfan- Posts : 1073
Join date : 2012-08-14
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by laverfan Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:26 am
noleisthebest wrote:laverfan wrote:
What I need is my business? You make a statement that SHBH have stopped progressing since 2006/07, and my examples, which contradict your statement, are because I cannot have a proper discussion with you and the legion of your cohorts (as Mikey) points out.
Of course they have stopped progressing. Get Federer out of the picture and tell me when was the last time a single backhander won a slam.
This is not an indicator of the failure of an SHBH. It is because there is a better player on the other side of the net.
noleisthebest wrote:Again, as soon as you can't get your own way, you throw a tantrum and start insulting people.
How many times have I heard about lack of sleep?
noleisthebest wrote:A Laver fan should have learned how to agree to disagree by now.
A rather crass generalization which has no relevance to being a fan of a specific player.
noleisthebest wrote:I am surprised you chose to have a go at Tenez and not me as I have far more radical views on single backhand than him. I hope it's not a personal vendetta. Some people just seem to come here and try to disprove him for the sake of it for some reason. Disagreeing and debating is one thing but constantly having a go is another however well concealed it is. Maybe you are not aware of it, but that's how it comes across.
Choice of a style is personal. I am not having a go at anyone. As Mikey says, civilised debate is preferred. The lack of respect for specific styles of play and this subjective measure of talent is rather incomprehensible, that too supported by the claim of years of watching Tennis.
As I said, 3 shots or 30 (or 54 or 61), SHBH or DHBH, counter-punching or not, are just personal preferences. As Roddick says, Talent is Universal, Opportunity is not.
Do not watch a match, if you dislike the style of specific players, even if you favourite player is on the other side and then show derision for the non-favourite player. I would be curious on how many in this forum have been through slam qualifying rounds.
Each of these players is a very hard working individual and deserves respect, despite not being the spectators' personal favourite.
laverfan- Posts : 1073
Join date : 2012-08-14
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:32 am
LF Spot on.
Now... you should be getting your next article planned
Spot on.Now... you should be getting your next article planned
Larry Ellison- Posts : 1222
Join date : 2012-07-21
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by sphairistike Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:53 pm
LF, the only reason why you don't debate with me is that I stopped debating with you, as Tenez pointed out, not the other way around. Now the reason for me is clear why you would not like debating with me anyways. The "threat" you are mentioning is not one as I act upon what I say and I am being mean to you, a bit, not that mean. And the only way I am being mean to you is by reminding you of how idiotic you might sound, when you debate. And as I can see I am not the only one thinking that. Now, obviously Amrit, your compatriot, will defend you, as he's the one who talked about some people having same stereotypes etc. he must have the same as yours and hence cannot see how condescending you are and how your comments are often trying to start an argument, not a debate, and this is the lowest form of debating skills. But I am sure you know it and you can be hypocritical about it as much as you want but a lot of us here are not naive and definitely smart enough (smarter than you I'd say) to notice it. Maybe it is due to your lack of logical thinking, so you feel having an actual debate is too difficult for you, so you like going around the roundabout over and over and throw some facts here and there with the wrong connection or conclusion, etc. Anyways, I am not debating with you still, just being mean and telling you what I think of you, as you decided to mention my "name" and insult my "debating skills"...
sphairistike- Posts : 589
Join date : 2012-08-20
Re: When was the last time you played with wooden racquets?
by Larry Ellison Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:39 pm
No, LF is situated in USA, and I'm from UK.sphairistike wrote:Amrit, your compatriot
sphairistike wrote:
he must have the same as yours and hence cannot see how condescending you are
Sphair, once on v2 I had a big debate with LF on the 'stats' behind rigging, I was arguing the seeding positions being balanced doesn't mean that there is no possibility in rigging. I don't think LF was aggressive towards me at all, so I disagree with you there. Some of her points were slightly vague for me, but different people have different styles of debating.
For me as long as it's not directly aggressive (insulting the poster, rather than their post) it's fine, after that boundaries should be drawn.
This is an example of aggression:
Debate the topic, rather than insulting the poster. Even if I am blind, and LF is actually hugely aggressive and confrontational, you doing the same is hypocritical.And the only way I am being mean to you is by reminding you of how idiotic you might sound, when you debate.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/condescendinga lot of us here are not naive and definitely smart enough (smarter than you I'd say) to notice it. Maybe it is due to your lack of logical thinking, so you feel having an actual debate is too difficult for you,
Larry Ellison- Posts : 1222
Join date : 2012-07-21
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