Davis Cup 2017

I am hoping you read my posts in their entirety Vee because I stated in my second to last post about DC being even lower in priority than 500 events and furthermore in my last post about draws stating in the very last sentence you couldn't do that at a Slam.

I am not the one clutching at straws. You still have yet to grasp the concept of the cause of withdrawals. As I said about the format. In the WG you get 2 chances to retain that status despite it trying to be a knockout tournament. Tell me why would you not look at the draw and not consider where the greater opportunity lie? Top players want to play in the WG. Like in football when the top teams want to qualify for the CL. If you are in the regional play offs, why would a top player want to play a match in which no prize is contested and risk injury when you could have a better chance of a Slam?

Aside from all that, I don't know what the coverage is like outside the UK, however take out GB's participation. Even if you had Djokovic, Federer and Nadal all playing in it, Sky don't want to touch it, Discovery don't, the Beeb doesn't nor ITV or Channel 4. Even in Federer's, Nadal's and Djokovic's pomp, none of those broadcasters were interested.

Out of interest, why do you think that was?

you seem to be the expert on the subject,above murray so why dont you tell me?
maybe you should make your crusade known to those broadcasters and save the DC with your opinion,go on tell them how to run it or how it should be run,how it should be scheduled and that the greats of the game arent really needed
im sure everyone will want LK ( who??) to tell them how things should be run
theres little to no interest in the DC,whats going to boost interest,better scheduling or big names?
i said this before and i will say it again,i am 100% certain that the ratings for the DC would have been much higher had andy murray played that weekend

Chill Winston!

Crikey. It's like the inner Daniel in you has come out.  

I gave an opinion on the DC as a whole and you've encapsulated your whole opinion in that last sentence which clearly restricts to the opinion of the tie between GB and France and Murray's participation. Yes Andy Murray's non-appearance no doubt hindered viewing audiences, yet he withdrew from injury, so on that basis are you suggesting Jamie's opinion was restricted to his brother's non appearance? Djokovic played the DC and yet that hasn't been mentioned. He is by all accounts a big name.

I won't be saying any more on this discussion.

legendkillar wrote:Chill Winston!

Crikey. It's like the inner Daniel in you has come out.  

I gave an opinion on the DC as a whole and you've encapsulated your whole opinion in that last sentence which clearly restricts to the opinion of the tie between GB and France and Murray's participation. Yes Andy Murray's non-appearance no doubt hindered viewing audiences, yet he withdrew from injury, so on that basis are you suggesting Jamie's opinion was restricted to his brother's non appearance? Djokovic played the DC and yet that hasn't been mentioned. He is by all accounts a big name.

I won't be saying any more on this discussion.

i was just using murray as an example as you did before...

you just said in a previous comment that you arent aware about coverage outside of the u.k so why are you assuming or presuming that djokovic didnt help boost ratings on the channels  in the countries the DC was being broadcasted that weekend?

God I hate reneging.

Right Vee, decided to try and find the full transcript of what Jamie said and found this:

The former world No1 doubles player explained: “Dave made a speech to the Players’ Council and we gave our opinions and then the next day the message was, ‘We are going ahead anyway’. Neutral final, that sort of stuff.

“The players do not want that but they are pushing ahead. And we told them the best of three sets for the singles, but that was months ago.

“It needs to change for the sake of their event because they are losing the top players. It is not as special as it used to be which is a shame because it is a great event and we all love it.”

Haggerty recognised Murray’s complaint but blamed a breakdown in communication following the meeting at the US Open in September. The publication afterwards of some of the core ideas had merely been intended as the beginning of a wider consultation, he claimed, rather than a finalised list of proposals.

Thought the bold might be of interest to you

I know he isn't everyone's cup of tea, but even he suggests making it biennially.

http://www.aol.co.uk/sport/2017/03/11/nadal-proposes-davis-cup-changes-to-attract-top-stars/

when did i ever say that the DC must NOT changed?? 
all i said is that i agree with murray,that the big names are needed to help boost the prestige of the event
youre talking about changing the scheduling but i dont see that anywhere mentioned above as the main problem or cause of whats holding the DC back 
i see him talking about best of 3 sets for singles..thats the only change i see mentioned above
i said this before,if murray thought that the scheduling was a massive problem wouldnt he have mentioned that above,especially seeing that he is voicing his opinion on what should be changed? 
if i asked you what should be changed,wouldnt you tell me exactly what you think should be changed?  

the thing about change is that it doesnt automatically guarantee success,unless its tried and tested so you can say change everything but that doesnt automatically mean that it will guarantee improving the event 
lest say even changing best of 5 sets to best of 3...i personally as a viewer would rather see best of 5 sets ( even though im sure the players would prefer best of 3) so the event is likely to loose my interest if they were to change that
prestige is mostly opinion based,if the top players talked the event up to be something like one of the best titles they could ever win,people will lap it up and that will increase interest
you could achieve that without even having to change anything,just saying...

I was talking about the prestige and that the format and scheduling needs changing to help enhance the prestige. Amongst the things I recommended I would like to see was the frequency of it being held.

Granted Jamie didn't say anything about that, however a certain Nadal did... Just saying.

im not disputing what nadal is saying,i just question if his proposals will make much of a difference 
if the event was considered extremely prestigious and something a player would sell their soul to the devil for,i dont think it would matter whether it was played every year,every second year or every 4 years
if it was like winning wimbledon,it wouldnt matter how busy their schedule was,they would priority their schedule around it the same way we are seeing federer prioritise his schedule around wimbledon

I believe they can. I am not a fan of change for the sake of it. Like Jamie and even Andy, I don't agree with the neutral venue. Takes away from it.

What I would like to see with the changes is that the smaller nations can benefit from those changes.

I think changing the frequency would be a huge step. As similarly with the World Cup in football and rugby, like the Olympics and the Ryder Cup. One of the big allures for those events (for me personally) is frequency. You want to see because of it's rarity.

There is a lot of work ahead to restore prestige to the DC. I think fans will start taking it seriously once the players and authorities do too. A big step is looking at the current format and with the players input too start making change for the great good of the event.

legendkillar wrote:I believe they can. I am not a fan of change for the sake of it. Like Jamie and even Andy, I don't agree with the neutral venue. Takes away from it.

What I would like to see with the changes is that the smaller nations can benefit from those changes.

I think changing the frequency would be a huge step. As similarly with the World Cup in football and rugby, like the Olympics and the Ryder Cup. One of the big allures for those events (for me personally) is frequency. You want to see because of it's rarity.

There is a lot of work ahead to restore prestige to the DC. I think fans will start taking it seriously once the players and authorities do too. A big step is looking at the current format and with the players input too start making change for the great good of the event.

i can understand your point especially considering that its the world cup of tennis but i personally dont think that rarity matters that much cause it doesnt affect the champions league or wimbledon which is hel every year
maybe its the "world cup" part which is looked at the same way it is in other sports from the casual sports viewer who would feel that such an event should be rarer but i dont think that will automatically boost the prestige of the event anymore then it is right now
it could possibly have a negative impact where the top players take even less interest cause rarity doesnt automatically guarantee that the top players would take it anymore seriously then they do right now
i actually think that playing it every year gives the likes of the lower ranked players i.e evans more chances to win a "prestigious" title along with an all time great from their country rather then if it were every 2-4 years
i think that has to be a highlight of a player like thats career...

that is and has always been my main argument,if the top players dont take it as seriously then the fans automatically wont

The Slams have always been the main event of the tennis season. Like the Majors with golf. Think the domestic football trophies are difficult to put into comparative markers with tennis and golf. Now, the Ryder Cup doesn't eclipse the Majors, however it is in second place I'd argue for golfers eligible to play in it to win. To me that's where the DC should sit. Firmly behind the Slams as the tournament you want to win the most.

I think BB said it early in the post about once the top players won it once, the gloss of it wears off.

I believe if the frequency and format were tweaked, I think you could easily get the top players taking it seriously again.

Sadly the actions required to reinvigorate it coming at the wrong stage in the some of the best players we've seen. Which I think might hurt it's momentum.

legendkillar wrote:The Slams have always been the main event of the tennis season. Like the Majors with golf. Think the domestic football trophies are difficult to put into comparative markers with tennis and golf. Now, the Ryder Cup doesn't eclipse the Majors, however it is in second place I'd argue for golfers eligible to play in it to win. To me that's where the DC should sit. Firmly behind the Slams as the tournament you want to win the most.

I think BB said it early in the post about once the top players won it once, the gloss of it wears off.

I believe if the frequency and format were tweaked, I think you could easily get the top players taking it seriously again.

Sadly the actions required to reinvigorate it coming at the wrong stage in the some of the best players we've seen. Which I think might hurt it's momentum.

i also said that,when have you ever heard anyone say " i won the DC 10 times" 
its definitely not a title the players seem to care about winning more then once
there in lies the problem

Veejay wrote:

legendkillar wrote:The Slams have always been the main event of the tennis season. Like the Majors with golf. Think the domestic football trophies are difficult to put into comparative markers with tennis and golf. Now, the Ryder Cup doesn't eclipse the Majors, however it is in second place I'd argue for golfers eligible to play in it to win. To me that's where the DC should sit. Firmly behind the Slams as the tournament you want to win the most.

I think BB said it early in the post about once the top players won it once, the gloss of it wears off.

I believe if the frequency and format were tweaked, I think you could easily get the top players taking it seriously again.

Sadly the actions required to reinvigorate it coming at the wrong stage in the some of the best players we've seen. Which I think might hurt it's momentum.

i also said that,when have you ever heard anyone say " i won the DC 10 times" 
its definitely not a title the players seem to care about winning more then once
there in lies the problem

Has anyone won it 10 times?

I do think if it's reduced in presence on the tour, I reckon players and fans will start to care about it more.

It's a behemoth task, because essentially it's time that's needed to return some prestige to it.

lol my point is even if someone did or could win it 10 times,its not a title anyone really brags about having

Can't bring myself to start a thread on the crappy Fed Cup but this might suffice as a vehicle.

Seriously, what the Hell are people on about here? Konta starts crying because Nastase uses harsh language? Give me a break - isn't she supposed to be the one with the strong mentality?

Also, this allegation of racism against Nastase seems wobbly. He makes some comments about Serena's baby that are rude and unwelcome, but is everyone shouting racist forgetting the guys history with Noah or Ashe, and if we're looking at general open-mindedness, Renee Richards?

The guy's a big mouthed, rude, old geezer. He used to be a big mouthed, rude young guy. But he'll now be hounded out of the game because he sees colour as just a subject to be chatted about.

Think you are way harsh. Konta's sports psychologist committed suicide last week, so it's more than Nastase being a complete knob jockey.

In this day and age the "he always was a rascal with his views" is a bit outdated as an excuse to fall back on. 

Again the lack of intellect by the old brigade is bewildering. Such views should be what I would call "amongst friends" rather than in front of the media!

legendkillar wrote:Think you are way harsh. Konta's sports psychologist committed suicide last week, so it's more than Nastase being a complete knob jockey.

In this day and age the "he always was a rascal with his views" is a bit outdated as an excuse to fall back on. 

Again the lack of intellect by the old brigade is bewildering. Such views should be what I would call "amongst friends" rather than in front of the media!

What irony...no wonder her patient was so wobbly.

Seriously, I find English women weak. Precious princesses.

I once complained to one for panting and grunting (as well as blabbing non-stop to her doubles partner), and apparently she was in tears later in the bar because of it.

PC brigade & can't wait to jump on someone.

Eh?

Your comparing the loss of person by death affecting someone's emotions on court to you complaining about someone's conduct on court and them crying as a result as a sign of weakness? 

Konta has no previous of being emotional on court. Fuck me Sampras was hailed a hero for crying on court during the 95 AO when his coach was terminally ill. As Federer at AO09 for losing a match! They must be mental midgets in comparison.

Seriously people need to get some perspective.

Her psychologist died last year, so I doubt that played a significant role. However, being called a "f...ing bitch" by the opposition captain and subsequently receiving similar abuse from the crowd is obviously completely unacceptable. Seems entirely reasonable to me that someone might be shaken by that. 

Sadly, Nastase has shown himself up badly this week. What a fool.

The irony is that a psychologist comitted suicide.

How can you help others if you cannot help yourself.

legendkillar wrote:Think you are way harsh. Konta's sports psychologist committed suicide last week, so it's more than Nastase being a complete knob jockey.

In this day and age the "he always was a rascal with his views" is a bit outdated as an excuse to fall back on. 

Again the lack of intellect by the old brigade is bewildering. Such views should be what I would call "amongst friends" rather than in front of the media!

Was it last week or year? If it was recent, and the cause, perhaps she could have said so rather than letting World hang Nastase for it.

I don't think he's a rascal, I always thought he was a knob. However I still don't see that as reason for a guy to be hounded out. His comments on Serena Williams baby are clumsy but I don't think they make him racist. It won't help him though, the twitterati will see to that via the sponsors.

Pam Schriver weighs in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39684332

The odd thing about that take is that it took her 30 times before she told him to stop (she was a young girl early on) after which he immediately did. 
He probably thought she was game for it, most stuff about him suggests he was pretty much on permanent look out for more sex.

bogbrush wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Think you are way harsh. Konta's sports psychologist committed suicide last week, so it's more than Nastase being a complete knob jockey.

In this day and age the "he always was a rascal with his views" is a bit outdated as an excuse to fall back on. 

Again the lack of intellect by the old brigade is bewildering. Such views should be what I would call "amongst friends" rather than in front of the media!

Was it last week or year? If it was recent, and the cause, perhaps she could have said so rather than letting World hang Nastase for it.

I don't think he's a rascal, I always thought he was a knob. However I still don't see that as reason for a guy to be hounded out. His comments on Serena Williams baby are clumsy but I don't think they make him racist. It won't help him though, the twitterati will see to that via the sponsors.

I read it last week on the Beeb article yesterday and since the reference has been removed which suggests Slippys date is accurate.

I agree it doesn't make him racist, but as you say it's clumsy and lacking judgement of the audience he remarks it to. Despite all that, his conduct this weekend has been quite shocking. 

And as you say Twitterati won't let go of this.

It's a situation an apology wouldn't go  amiss to resolve.

He wouldn't because really he doesn't think he'd done anything wrong, and as far as he's concerned he's Ilie Nastase and that's that. The guys courted hostility for almost 50 years.

The view from Romanian corner:

A lot more detail in Serbian:

http://www.b92.net/sport/tenis/vesti.php?yyyy=2017&mm=04&dd=23&nav_id=1253182

however only found this one in English:

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/04/cirstea-angered-konta-reaction-lta-seeks-sanctions-against-nastase/65609/

bogbrush wrote:He wouldn't because really he doesn't think he'd done anything wrong, and as far as he's concerned he's Ilie Nastase and that's that. The guys courted hostility for almost 50 years.

Oh indeed. There's certainly a Prince Phillip quality about this situation.

I am sure this will rumble on and I am sure some bright spark could connect this to Brexit.

legendkillar wrote:

bogbrush wrote:He wouldn't because really he doesn't think he'd done anything wrong, and as far as he's concerned he's Ilie Nastase and that's that. The guys courted hostility for almost 50 years.

Oh indeed. There's certainly a Prince Phillip quality about this situation.

I am sure this will rumble on and I am sure some bright spark could connect this to Brexit.

And that is exactly all it was!

But look at the witch-hunt on Nastase now!

And did you read what Cristea had to say about Konta's teary tantrum?

This  is another classic example of how British media twists and manipulates.
Today Nastase is the baddy, tomorrow it will be the whole country that needs to be nuked for the sake of human rights.

... wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

bogbrush wrote:He wouldn't because really he doesn't think he'd done anything wrong, and as far as he's concerned he's Ilie Nastase and that's that. The guys courted hostility for almost 50 years.

Oh indeed. There's certainly a Prince Phillip quality about this situation.

I am sure this will rumble on and I am sure some bright spark could connect this to Brexit.

And that is exactly all it was!

But look at the witch-hunt on Nastase now!

And did you read what Cristian had to say about Konta's teary tantrum?

This  is another classic example of how British media twists and manipulates.
Today Nastase is the baddy, tomorrow it will be the whole country that needs to be nuked for the sake of human rights.

I wasn't actually justifying it. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case at all. Certain "jokes" or jest, whatever you want to call them should be kept to themselves or in private. Not in front of the global media where you know it's most likely to cause offence. The whole cute cuddly outspoken grandfather thing doesn't work for me. Get with the times.

I've read everything. Six of one and half dozen of the other. No-one in this whole situation has come out in a shining light. Not a great weekend for tennis. A situation I would've expected in the Australia DC team

Not sure why people resort to potty mouth ranting.

I can imagine Halep wanted to be anywhere else than Romania this weekend.

legendkillar wrote:

I wasn't actually justifying it. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case at all. Certain "jokes" or jest, whatever you want to call them should be kept to themselves or in private. Not in front of the global media where you know it's most likely to cause offence. The whole cute cuddly outspoken grandfather thing doesn't work for me. Get with the times.

I've read everything. Six of one and half dozen of the other. No-one in this whole situation has come out in a shining light. Not a great weekend for tennis. A situation I would've expected in the Australia DC team

Not sure why people resort to potty mouth ranting.

I can imagine Halep wanted to be anywhere else than Romania this weekend.

Well that's exactly what Naste's joke about William was...except that some journalist who overheard Naste decided to earn a few brownie points with the PC brigade and reported it to the media.

Now the guy has lost his job. (not that he cares much!)

And you can't brush it all under the carpet...players get abused all the time, Cristea talks about it...and this comment from some Serena's fan sums Conta well:

=======
"Serena won Indian Wells in 2001 dealing with boos, jeers, and racial slurs. From her OWN FELLOW AMERICANS. She did not cry on court or request a break. She played through it and won the match.

Matches should not be stopped just because a player has their feelings hurt and starts to cry. There's no defending what Nastase did. He was a jackass. But instead of crying, Jo should have used it as motivation to win anyway. Not take a break because of crying. Not to mention, Nastase made his comments at 2-1 in the second set, and he was thrown out. But there was no stoppage then. It wasn't until after Cirstea broke for 3-1 that Jo started crying and wanted the break."
========

... wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

I wasn't actually justifying it. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case at all. Certain "jokes" or jest, whatever you want to call them should be kept to themselves or in private. Not in front of the global media where you know it's most likely to cause offence. The whole cute cuddly outspoken grandfather thing doesn't work for me. Get with the times.

I've read everything. Six of one and half dozen of the other. No-one in this whole situation has come out in a shining light. Not a great weekend for tennis. A situation I would've expected in the Australia DC team

Not sure why people resort to potty mouth ranting.

I can imagine Halep wanted to be anywhere else than Romania this weekend.

Well that's exactly what Naste's joke about William was...except that some journalist who overheard Naste decided to earn a few brownie points with the PC brigade and reported it to the media.

Now the guy has lost his job. (not that he cares much!)

And you can't brush it all under the carpet...players get abused all the time, Cristea talks about it...and this comment from some Serena's fan sums Conta well:

=======
"Serena won Indian Wells in 2001 dealing with boos, jeers, and racial slurs. From her OWN FELLOW AMERICANS. She did not cry on court or request a break. She played through it and won the match.

Matches should not be stopped just because a player has their feelings hurt and starts to cry. There's no defending what Nastase did. He was a jackass. But instead of crying, Jo should have used it as motivation to win anyway. Not take a break because of crying. Not to mention, Nastase made his comments at 2-1 in the second set, and he was thrown out. But there was no stoppage then. It wasn't until after Cirstea broke for 3-1 that Jo started crying and wanted the break."
========

Bigger fool Nastase end of the day. Listen, I've got nothing against the guy, believe it or not I like him as a player and found him more of the entertaining types, especially on the seniors. In an age of intense media intrusion you need to be extra careful. He is accountable for his own actions at the end of the day.

What Jo should've, could've done immaterial end of the day. Being I've played infront of a small scale crowd baying for my blood during a football match, I'd say the same as you, use it as motivation. Sometimes not so simple, if you are emotive you'll either meet fire with fire or in Jo's case try and get a pause somewhere and re-compose.

People react differently. Jo still might take something from this event in a bid to be more mentally stronger. Who knows.

... wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

I wasn't actually justifying it. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case at all. Certain "jokes" or jest, whatever you want to call them should be kept to themselves or in private. Not in front of the global media where you know it's most likely to cause offence. The whole cute cuddly outspoken grandfather thing doesn't work for me. Get with the times.

I've read everything. Six of one and half dozen of the other. No-one in this whole situation has come out in a shining light. Not a great weekend for tennis. A situation I would've expected in the Australia DC team

Not sure why people resort to potty mouth ranting.

I can imagine Halep wanted to be anywhere else than Romania this weekend.

Well that's exactly what Naste's joke about William was...except that some journalist who overheard Naste decided to earn a few brownie points with the PC brigade and reported it to the media.

Now the guy has lost his job. (not that he cares much!)

And you can't brush it all under the carpet...players get abused all the time, Cristea talks about it...and this comment from some Serena's fan sums Conta well:

=======
"Serena won Indian Wells in 2001 dealing with boos, jeers, and racial slurs. From her OWN FELLOW AMERICANS. She did not cry on court or request a break. She played through it and won the match.

Matches should not be stopped just because a player has their feelings hurt and starts to cry. There's no defending what Nastase did. He was a jackass. But instead of crying, Jo should have used it as motivation to win anyway. Not take a break because of crying. Not to mention, Nastase made his comments at 2-1 in the second set, and he was thrown out. But there was no stoppage then. It wasn't until after Cirstea broke for 3-1 that Jo started crying and wanted the break."
========

actually that incident prompted venus and serena to completely boycott the event as the crowd were chanting racial slurs
we also saw serena break down in the press conference at RG after henin's lying hand incident  ( lol she had to lie and cheat to try and win) 
i dont think anyone of us can really pass judgment on how we would react in the same situation so i dont hold anything against konta for stopping to play.she probably never had anyone treat her so poorly so it must have come as quite a shock
its pretty humiliating to be treated like that either by the crowd or a member of the opposing team
no one should have to be subjected to being treated like that on court when all they are doing is focusing on playing the match

With apologies to "the poster formerlly know as NITB", this is all about the feminisation of society. It's approaching a crime to say "suck it up".

Nastase is a grade-A d1ckwad but that's not a crime. If he'd groped them up, or exposed himself, or whatever then that would be different but what he did was nothing. 

Sheesh, I thought that the idea of feminism was that women were just as capable as men but it turns out that what it really means is that guys have to behave in accordance with female norms. That's why you get boys marked down at school for being boisterous, or put on drugs to modify their behaviour, and why the media soils itself whenever any guys does something soppy.

Mrs Bogbrush says that her husband doesn't seem to have much of a female side to be in touch with which suits her down to the ground. She gets to be married to a proper guy, and also gets to complain at all his disastrous errors and failing (these are her words).

Is it though?

I think if anything I think the shock factor comes from such behaviour occurring in tennis (Though Kyrgios is bringing the sport forward in that regard).

It's a case of a verbal abuse what the tolerance levels are. I found my Grandad's wisdom the best to deal with such incidents: "Nothing quite shuts someone up like a punch in the mouth" and he wasn't wrong in my most cases*.

*Disclaimer: Not encouraging the forum to follow suit in such incidents.

bogbrush wrote:With apologies to "the poster formerlly know as NITB", this is all about the feminisation of society. It's approaching a crime to say "suck it up".

Nastase is a grade-A d1ckwad but that's not a crime. If he'd groped them up, or exposed himself, or whatever then that would be different but what he did was nothing. 

Sheesh, I thought that the idea of feminism was that women were just as capable as men but it turns out that what it really means is that guys have to behave in accordance with female norms. That's why you get boys marked down at school for being boisterous, or put on drugs to modify their behaviour, and why the media soils itself whenever any guys does something soppy.

Mrs Bogbrush says that her husband doesn't seem to have much of a female side to be in touch with which suits her down to the ground. She gets to be married to a proper guy, and also gets to complain at all his disastrous errors and failing (these are her words).

Well, that was my point.

Feminism does not grow in Eastern Europe, it's a Western movement, started by British women anyway.

Same as all liberal pushes trying to blend us into a mono-coloured, mono-sexual world.

... wrote:Same as all liberal pushes trying to blend us into a mono-coloured, mono-sexual world.

That facilitates marketeers and corporations job. One product for all!

Totalitarianism at it's finest

... wrote:

bogbrush wrote:With apologies to "the poster formerlly know as NITB", this is all about the feminisation of society. It's approaching a crime to say "suck it up".

Nastase is a grade-A d1ckwad but that's not a crime. If he'd groped them up, or exposed himself, or whatever then that would be different but what he did was nothing. 

Sheesh, I thought that the idea of feminism was that women were just as capable as men but it turns out that what it really means is that guys have to behave in accordance with female norms. That's why you get boys marked down at school for being boisterous, or put on drugs to modify their behaviour, and why the media soils itself whenever any guys does something soppy.

Mrs Bogbrush says that her husband doesn't seem to have much of a female side to be in touch with which suits her down to the ground. She gets to be married to a proper guy, and also gets to complain at all his disastrous errors and failing (these are her words).

Well, that was my point.

Feminism does not grow  in Eastern Europe, it's a Western movement, started by British women anyway.

Same as all liberal pushes trying to blend us into a mono-coloured, mono-sexual world.

i have views that many would consider liberal but you cannot accuse me of doing that

... wrote:

bogbrush wrote:With apologies to "the poster formerlly know as NITB", this is all about the feminisation of society. It's approaching a crime to say "suck it up".

Nastase is a grade-A d1ckwad but that's not a crime. If he'd groped them up, or exposed himself, or whatever then that would be different but what he did was nothing. 

Sheesh, I thought that the idea of feminism was that women were just as capable as men but it turns out that what it really means is that guys have to behave in accordance with female norms. That's why you get boys marked down at school for being boisterous, or put on drugs to modify their behaviour, and why the media soils itself whenever any guys does something soppy.

Mrs Bogbrush says that her husband doesn't seem to have much of a female side to be in touch with which suits her down to the ground. She gets to be married to a proper guy, and also gets to complain at all his disastrous errors and failing (these are her words).

Well, that was my point.

Feminism does not grow  in Eastern Europe, it's a Western movement, started by British women anyway.

Same as all liberal pushes trying to blend us into a mono-coloured, mono-sexual world.

Oh they'll get around to you. You're only like Britain was in the 1950's and with the internet and the EU to accelerate the process your men will be emoting with the best of us within 5-10 years. I mean, look at the wimp the French are going to have as President soon, a guy who marries his drama teacher FFS???!! Him and Trudeau will have to get a room!!!

Note: This isn't any sort of argument with you Veejay, nothing wrong with tolerance and forebearance.

Yes, we are behind you in many ways. So I doubt we'll ever be able to catch up.

This poems sums it up perfectly

THE BALKANITE by Desanka Maksimović
I am not ashamed to be - 
as you say - 
a barbarian from the Balkans, 
that zone of filth and turmoil. 
You will hear now 
that even among us 
there is some culture, unknown to you. 
You first inquire and suspect 
you are distant from your own sons, 
at your table you do not allow 
just any stranger. 
You can drink by youself
without offering 
a glass of wine to the one sat across you.
But with us our customs are crude, 
we allow all beneath our roof, 
we still greet those we encounter by chance with 
a kiss, 
we carry out feats in the name of hospitality, 
among us each man has 
a whole tribe 
of friends and family. 
You, granted, have 
several million statues of Christ 
one per person 
along roads and fields, in jails and schools, 
but with us, when people believe in God 
they carry Him within themselves 
and silently 
almost in their sleep, 
they pray to him.
You, it is true, have for each corner of life 
a gadget or machine, 
you have calculated all and know all 
your inventions are awe-inspiring, 
while we still use old-fashioned tools 
and all around is still healthy 
as natural as clay 
death, birth and life. 
You have entire collections 
of laws and knowledge about freedom 
you write and speak of everything 
but we without word or symbol 
live freely 
and adhere to some natural order 
similar to fire, wind, or water. 
With you everything is prescribed accurately, 
that's a fact, 
when to eat, speak and dress 
but, when we speak, we yell 
and wave our hands 
and slurp our soup 
and don't remove our gloves 
and wear pigskin shoes, 
we have a lot of peasantly habits and things 
and our kingly ancestors 
were, indeed, cattle herders. 
Our people can, when enraged 
kill, destroy and burn 
But we are not the ones that calculate and suppress 
We don't consider the whole world 
our field 
We would not endure that 
a tribesman in a jungle weeps because of us. 
Our soul is spacious 
even though we are a few.

I wasn't saying 'behind' in a wholly critical sense!

It doesn't matter...I tried to portray why feminism doesn't grow over there, that's all.

Everyone there is like Naste, we say it as it is, nobody gets offended.

Here, poeple are so thin-skinned and hyper sensitive.
I have adjusted a little, but used to be a right Taz in the early days! 

... wrote:It doesn't matter...I tried to portray why feminism doesn't grow over there, that's all.

Everyone there is like Naste, we say it as it is, nobody gets offended.

Here, poeple are so thin-skinned and hyper sensitive.
I have adjusted a little, but used to be a right Taz in the early days! 

reading this article is seems nastase has been behaving like this for ages harassing pam shriver and most likely many others
well all i gotta say is in our western culture such behaviour is completely unacceptable but i guess now it all makes sense that even as a woman you would never condemn a man bragging about grabbing women by the genitals because saying it how it is simply doesnt offend you
the funny thing is if me and anyone else were to say it how it is and call the russians or maria sharapova a bunch of dopers or melania trump a high class hooker you do get offended..why is that? 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39684332

Vee,

I don't get offended that easily. 
You are caught up in media too much. It's a waste of life.

Veejay wrote:
well all i gotta say is in our western culture such behaviour is completely unacceptable but i guess now it all makes sense that even as a woman you would never condemn a man bragging about grabbing women by the genitals because saying it how it is simply doesnt offend you
the funny thing is if me and anyone else were to say it how it is and call the russians or maria sharapova a bunch of dopers or melania trump a high class hooker you do get offended..why is that? 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39684332

I just saw that Marcon is married to his French teacher, 24 years his senior, and an heiress.

Now Vee, you must be following this one closely as you seem to like saucy public relashionships,  did he marry her for love or money?

Who is the real "hooker" here?

Tend to agree with Bogbrush overall on feminism. The BBC had an amusing article last month in respect of the fact sports bodies were going to have their funding cut if they didn't have a quota of 30% women in senior exec positions by April. Football and rugby, with around 10% female representation were described as "bad". Netball, with 90% female representation was "good". Couldn't make it up. 

However, feminism has nothing to do with this story. Kosta shouldn't have to "suck up" the opposition captain calling her a "fucking bitch" repeatedly nor should she have to deal with similar abuse from the crowd. Whilst a male player in similar circumstances might not have cried, they'd have been well within their rights to request a short break to recover their focus.

The only person in the wrong here is Nastase and Cirstea's ire should be directed squarely at her captain.

Konta had no right to leave the court just because she couldn't handle losing.
She is a crybaby full stop.

Anyway, this is what Naste said afterwards:

That's how you deal with political correctness - hit them where it hurts, not bow your head to them.

" I don't regret it and they can send me to prison if they want - I don't care. I was just trying to promote the interest of my girl. The English player just stormed off without even asking permission to leave the court and I admit that's when I called her a bitch. She kept trying to keep the crowd quiet - but it's not an opera, it's a game. I don't need this bullsh*t. I'm 70 years old. I don't even get paid for being team captain. I don't give a sh*t if they fine me or don't let me sit in the captain's chair." 

Nothing like a ranting old man.


Even brought his age into the equation.


Racism, Sexism and now ageism.


They all need to grow the f*ck up!

Here is what the rest of Romanian players said:

Halep:

“Yes, I had extra motivation,” said Simona Halep, after she had used her sense of injustice to fuel a superb 6-1, 6-3 victory over Konta in yesterday’s opening match. “In my opinion the public was very fair yesterday, they didn’t say anything bad, they just were supporting us.”


Begu:

"Johanna said that at 3-1 she was feeling threatened. That’s what she said about the public, about the crowd. [But] like Sorana said, we’ve been to countries where everybody was screaming, even when it was a double fault. I didn’t start to cry.”

I must say we are seeing 2 ends of a spectrum here. And I actually think it's one end (Political correctness) pushing the other one (vulgarity) to its extreme.

A bit like a terrorist act...as ugly as they are they are almost always a counter reaction to a greater accepted violence by a powerful established.