Players' Improvement Thread

[noleisthebest]

As we have been having a lot of discussion about players' improvement in recent months, I thought it would be interesting to have a thread where we can add our observations as we go along...

This year alone has seen many examples:


Federer has gone ultra-aggressive and invented SABR

Djokovic has matured his general timing - hitting the ball faster and harder

Gasquet has improved his fitness and stamina

Murray has improved his all-court game and movement - he is more fluid and relaxed now

Paire has improved his FH, it's less loopy and hit with more confidence now

Nadal has improved his court position and is beginning to succesfully play closer to the baseline for longer periods of time in a match

Fognini has improved fitness and with it patience and confidence...


What have you noticed?

[Daniel]

Federer: Ultra aggressive but that's not an improvement, it's a rearrangement because he can no longer last in rallies. His new approach is useless on slower surfaces against the best returners.

Djokovic: None. He was at his peak in 2011.

Murray: None. He was better before he was injured.

Nadal: None. This is his worst ever year, and aside from the Shanghai Masters he's shown zero form.

[noleisthebest]

Federer: Ultra aggressive but that's not an improvement, it's a rearrangement because he can no longer last in rallies. His new approach is useless on slower surfaces against the best returners.

I agree it's virtually impossible to beat current Djokovic in these conditions.
Yet, Federer is the only one who has beaten him TWICE this year, with that exact ultra aggressive game. There is no other way atm.

You mentioned before you play.

Surely, you must know how tough it is to SABR, to S&V now.  So tough only Federer is able to, in fact. At 34!

It certainly is an improvement to be a be to take a serve as early as in almost a volleying position. It's as good as it can possibly get with tennis skill.

Djokovic: None. He was at his peak in 2011.
Murray: None. He was better before he was injured.

Nadal: None. This is his worst ever year, and aside from the Shanghai Masters he's shown zero form.

We are not talking about results here, just the actual tennis. And even if you look at results only, Djokovic is better this year. At least he thinks so...

Has anyone improved this year or ever for that matter in your opinion, btw?

[Daniel]

On results, 2011 is still Djokovic's best year. But my points all still stand.  And results are directly proportional to form and to how well a player is playing.  Unless you think that winning has nothing to do with the quality of play?

I am not sure about all players, but certainly the ones I mentioned have gone backwards, not forwards.  In Djokovic's case, he is still playing very well, and the field is weak.

Some of the younger players have certainly improved (and will continue to), and in a few years the top 10 will look different.

[noleisthebest]

Well, although I am not a Nole "fan" in the irrational sense I once was, I still can't turn my heart off completely, as I admire a few things about him.

Being Serbian, I do understand him fully in the ways others can't, know his game well as I have followed it closely from day one, watching him live many times over the years.

He has been improving CONTINUALLY, even if the results were not always showing it.
As we all know, sometimes nothing happens however much we try, work hard and want it.

That all aside, his game fell into place about a year ago, maybe 18 months.
Mainly through his FH which has matured; he started hitting it more freely, faster, deeper, yet not needing to paint the lines.
I expect that trend to continue until he retires and hope that he loosens it and open his shoulders completely one day...you never know!

Regarding 2011, yes, it was an impressive year, but many matches were won very closely and on sheer confidence.
I don't remember him having twice as many points as number two, or number two and three put together.
He is simply extremely dominant now.

I know for a fact he had fear in his eyes when he was playing Federer in 2011, 2012...but not any more....at least on slower courts and in the best of 5.

You think it's because field is weak, I say it's because has improved, they all have. He is at his absolute peak right now: physical, mental, emotional, and technically getting better.
We are seeing some excellent tennis now from many players. It's faster, there is more shotmaking.
Kukushkin, they journeyman of 2-3 years ago is playing great tennis now. And to you, he is probably a meaningless nobody.

Even Murray-Djokovic matches aren't dull and boring any more, and that says a lot!

So maybe, it may not be so bad to see another Fedal after all!

At the expense of sounding cliche, tennis skill like wine does mature and get better with age.
The more you hit the ball - the better you get, it's as simple as that.

[Tenez]

On results, 2011 is still Djokovic's best year. But my points all still stand.  And results are directly proportional to form and to how well a player is playing.  Unless you think that winning has nothing to do with the quality of play?

Are you purposely trying not to understand? It's not results against a clock, distance or a measurable criteria. It's results against something (players here) that has ups and downs and keep changing.

By your concept, Had federer played in Pete's era, he woudl not have affected Pete's 14 slam record. Again Nadal could not have stopped Borg from winning his 6 FOs....or the other way around. It simply doesn't make sense. "Federer only gets beaten cause since 2006 he delined"....That is the most fanish comment one can ever read, in the same line of "Nadal only loses because he is injured".

Because you are only basing your views on results, you are clearly taking only one side of the equation, completely ignoring the other side and doing that is not logic, rigourous...hence why I do not wish to discuss this topic with you. I am only showing your thinking process flaws.

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