Top 10 Players' Age....

It is interesting to note that despite the arrival of Nishi, Rao and Cilic in the top 10, the average age is 28.6. Nishi and Cilic have done well but their consistency is not that great compared to the other players and can thank their entry in the top 10 thanks to the USO. Rao seems to have had overall more consistant results even if less remarkable.

1 Djokovic 27.83
2 Federer  33.5
3 Nadal 28.67
4 Nishikori 25.17
5 Murray 27.83
6 Rao 24.17
7 Wawrinka 29.92
8 Ferrer 32.92
9 Berdych 29.5
10 Cilic 26 26.5

It is very likely that in 4 months roughly the average will be 29 yo!!! not bad for players meant to peak at 26!

Live link here to top 5 and top 10 age average:

Top 10 Players ages

I can't believe "noleisthebest" is already 9 years old!!!

When I remember BBC 606 days, I fully realise how old top 10 are.

I got so used to all of them, I can't imagine a top 4 without Nole, Fed or Nadal.

Definitely an interesting stage of tennis evolution. A bit like property market in the UK, hard for the youngsters to get on the ladder

I wonder how long it will take Coric to get to top 10.
It's almost unreal he is only 18.

Compare that to 10 years ago...

1 Federer, Roger (SUI) 6,725 0 19
2 Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 4,765 0 22
3 Roddick, Andy (USA) 3,085 0 20
4 Nalbandian, David (ARG) 2,370 1 21
5 Davydenko, Nikolay (RUS) 2,355 1 30
6 Hewitt, Lleyton (AUS) 2,330 -2 17
7 Agassi, Andre (USA) 2,275 0 17
8 Ljubicic, Ivan (CRO) 2,180 1 25
9 Coria, Guillermo (ARG) 2,175 -1 21
10 Gaudio, Gaston (ARG)

The average age there must have been 24, 25 at most! It shows that the tour is currently reaching a mature stage due to hardly any technology changes nor an increase in the youngsters taking on the sport like it happened in the first decades of the open era.

It probably also reflects the importance of money on the tour. The more money one has, better the treatments, better training, better access to science, the fresher and better equipped the top players are.

noleisthebest wrote:Definitely an interesting stage of tennis evolution. A bit like property market in the UK, hard for the youngsters to get on the ladder

Very good parallel.

Yes, and however attractive it is to have the top players draw crowds in around the world, there is a big danger of young players intake drying up.
With prize money being so low at challengers (not to mention betting mafia sharks causing havoc there) and early rounds, it's hard to see them being able to survive and be competitive.

Tennis needs a healthy wide base and a different age pyramid structure.

I wonder if anyone in ATP is bothered about it, or are they only worried about the short-term vision.

As I asked the other day, where are all other 18 year olds?
What are they doing?

To me the main reason is still the fact that technology has hardly changed over the last 10 years, and there has not been been significantly more youngsters taking on the game than 10 years ago. This might change if the whole Asia decides to play the game but so far tennis is less popular in the US and that probably contributes to temper the increase of popularity in Europe.

So in fact we are seeing a similar situation now as the pre-open era. In other words tennis is settling down.

It certainly comforts once again my point that champions so far have always been pushed down the ranking by younger, by "better" players abefore they could even peak.

Agassi and Lendl who were both able to adapt their game, Like Federer were able to do very well, late.

noleisthebest wrote:I can't believe "noleisthebest" is already 9 years old!!!

When I remember BBC 606 days, I fully realise how old top 10 are.

I got so used to all of them, I can't imagine a top 4 without Nole, Fed or Nadal.

Definitely an interesting stage of tennis evolution. A bit like property market in the UK, hard for the youngsters to get on the ladder

Tenez is more recent...as at first I was FedererExpress

Tenez wrote:

Tenez is more recent...as at first I was FedererExpress

Well at least you changed to a nice name you can keep for ever.
What am I going to do with my name when Nole retires?

coricisthebest?

I can't believe it's already 12 years since Federer made his mark on the tour.

Also another reason why the tour is aging....slower court forcing for baseline. On a fast surface a youngster can try his chance with 2 shots (serve and volley)...but with rallying there is nowhere to hide and any weakness woudl be found out. So the more mature, experienced and skilled win.

I also puts in perspective those who said that Pete was declining at 29/30 when he played young Federer...19/20.

Clearly there we can see now (and I argumented that so many times v Lyndian) that Pete had a huge advantage that day as Federer was simply playing on talent alone without experience, a mature game, etc.....and the amazing thing is that Fed had the same racquet and strings as Pete...just different tension.

Pete was simply at his best then or certainly very close to. Yet, it was not enough....but unlike Nadal beating federer, tennis technology had hardly changed in the previous 10 years.

Tenez wrote:coricisthebest?

I can't believe it's already 12 years since Federer made his mark on the tour.

No chance!!!!

I do like Mademoiselle Lenglen.

Tenez wrote:Also another reason why the tour is aging....slower court forcing for baseline. On a fast surface a youngster can try his chance with 2 shots (serve and volley)...but with rallying there is nowhere to hide and any weakness woudl be found out. So the more mature, experienced and skilled win.

Yes, that's stopped/is stopping many youngsters (Vesely, JJ, Kyrgios seems to be doing a bit better)
This is the Era of Returners, look how well and risky Federer had to serve to get past Nole in Dubai, and that was on probably fastest hard court atm...what hope is there for anyone else?

noleisthebest wrote:....what hope is there for anyone else?

Not much!

Tenez wrote:I also puts in perspective those who said that Pete was declining at 29/30 when he played young Federer...19/20.

Clearly there we can see now (and I argumented that so many times v Lyndian) that Pete had a huge advantage that day as Federer was simply playing on talent alone without experience, a mature game, etc.....and the amazing thing is that Fed had the same racquet and strings as Pete...just different tension.

Pete was simply at his best then or certainly very close to. Yet, it was not enough....but unlike Nadal beating federer, tennis technology had hardly changed in the previous 10 years.

Yes, from day one you've had a really good understanding and have been patiently pointing out elements of how tennis has been changing all these years
It's been particularly useful to have one player to view it all through.

Federer has done so well to bridge all the generations and still be on top, that must feel so satisfying for him.

It's exciting to watch him do it, and such a shame time is not on his side. Hopefully, the back will hold for another 2-3 years.

I don't understand why Lydian disliked Federer so much. How can anyone who loves tennis not be in awe of him as a player?

Pete's game was so basic compared to Fed's.

Tenez wrote:Compare that to 10 years ago...

1 Federer, Roger (SUI) 6,725 0 19
2 Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 4,765 0 22
3 Roddick, Andy (USA) 3,085 0 20
4 Nalbandian, David (ARG) 2,370 1 21
5 Davydenko, Nikolay (RUS) 2,355 1 30
6 Hewitt, Lleyton (AUS) 2,330 -2 17
7 Agassi, Andre (USA) 2,275 0 17
8 Ljubicic, Ivan (CRO) 2,180 1 25
9 Coria, Guillermo (ARG) 2,175 -1 21
10 Gaudio, Gaston (ARG)

The average age there must have been 24, 25 at most! It shows that the tour is currently reaching a mature stage due to hardly any technology changes nor an increase in the youngsters taking on the sport like it happened in the first decades of the open era.

It probably also reflects the importance of money on the tour. The more money one has, better the treatments, better training, better access to science,  the fresher and better equipped the top players are.

Where do you see the game in 10 years?
Is it going to grind to a white plague halt?

noleisthebest wrote:I don't understand why Lydian disliked Federer so much. How can anyone who loves tennis not be in awe of him as a player?

Pete's game was so basic compared to Fed's.

Like or dislike I understand perfectly. But one has to be childish to denigrate the talent behind the person. It's like me saying nadal is average as he is not the fittest and his spin doesn't play a role in his success.

Simple denial at times. I did not like McEnroe and Becker  for years but never underestimated their talent.

Anyway, I believe Lydian quite like Fed now...LS mentioned. So looks like Lydian is maturing too.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:Compare that to 10 years ago...

1 Federer, Roger (SUI) 6,725 0 19
2 Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 4,765 0 22
3 Roddick, Andy (USA) 3,085 0 20
4 Nalbandian, David (ARG) 2,370 1 21
5 Davydenko, Nikolay (RUS) 2,355 1 30
6 Hewitt, Lleyton (AUS) 2,330 -2 17
7 Agassi, Andre (USA) 2,275 0 17
8 Ljubicic, Ivan (CRO) 2,180 1 25
9 Coria, Guillermo (ARG) 2,175 -1 21
10 Gaudio, Gaston (ARG)

The average age there must have been 24, 25 at most! It shows that the tour is currently reaching a mature stage due to hardly any technology changes nor an increase in the youngsters taking on the sport like it happened in the first decades of the open era.

It probably also reflects the importance of money on the tour. The more money one has, better the treatments, better training, better access to science,  the fresher and better equipped the top players are.

Where do you see the game in 10 years?
Is it going to grind to a white plague halt?

There is no way to predict the game in the future. If a giant comes along and aces his way to 10 GS, they will change the rules. If a popular player can win under dead slow conds, they will do what's needed to help him like we had with Nadal.

However I am quite confident that unless a big technology and conds change, the players age in the top 10 should get closer to 30...unless phenomenons like Nadal and Coric can be produced in mass.

Whatever happens, I just hope that with all this new technology, medicine, money etc a bit of tennis soul survives somehow.

That can only happen with another prodigy.

For some reason, I can't imagine a tennis prodigy play with a DBH, and which junioir these days is learning the game with a SBH?

Drama and manufactured x factor are fine, but sadly, most won't even notice the difference when Fed retires.

....in short, ban doublehanded backhand NOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!

noleisthebest wrote:....in short, ban doublehanded backhand NOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!

I like the idea....or even better setting conds so SHBH is an advantage.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:....in short, ban doublehanded backhand NOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!

I like the idea....or even better setting conds so SHBH is an advantage.

I can only see that happen if Fed decides to run ATP one day.

A quick calculation shows that the difference in age between the top 5 now and in Jan 2006 is much bigger.

Now: 28 year and 7 months
Jan 2006 : 23 years and 6 months

5 years difference average!!! It's huge!

This is simply the Luxilion effect. Very quickly the generation which has learnt to play with the new strings have shorten the career of those who learnt the game with natural gut.

Very interesting.
The way technolgy is going - it's all pulling away from talent-dependent ballstriking: racquets are lighter and lighter, strings offer more spin, sweetspot also getting bigger...almost like power badminton with lowered net.
I wonder is there a point of no return with it all?

Funny how oldies all play with these big, modern racquets in their exos now!

I am pretty sure we see a similar gap from pre-open era and open era....but also wooden racquet / Graphite medium racquet.

Each time, the new players push the top players down faster than they woudl have liked.

This is what Nole says on topic of young players/Coric:

"He’s definitely one of the most talented players right now the world,. He beat Nadal in Basel four or five months ago, and since that tournament you can feel he has matured a lot. He feels comfortable playing with top players.

I practiced with him a lot in last two, three months. Spent some time in Dubai and he was here so we practiced a few times, practiced a few times in Australia. I try to help him because I see, in a way, myself through him. I’ve never felt that way when I practice with somebody as I felt with him. It’s like playing myself. Very similar game.

Great fighting spirit, disciplined, focused, committed, confident, very young but confident, which is important. He’s a good boy and we have good relationship. I try to always talk with him, give him few advices. I think he has a bright future if he is able to stay on the pathway he is right now and be patient and, you know, he has a good team of people around him. Just reaching quarterfinals here, obviously beating Baghdatis and a couple good players says enough about his quality. He’s only 18 years old. It takes a little bit of time, but he’s already, as I see, physically matured, a strong guy, and I wish him all the best.

I believe it’s more difficult to break to top 100 than it was in my days, and I was going through, like, 10 years ago when I made my breakthrough. I felt like I could reach the top 50 or  ars ago when I made my breakthrough. I felt like I could reach the top 50 or maybe top 100 or top 50 earlier.

Nowadays it’s more physical. I feel like first professional match, when I played in comparing to today, I think many more players are professional just in everything they do. You didn’t see that much professionalism from the players that are, let’s say, ranked 50 in the world in terms of practice, in terms of recovery, in terms of just a very professional approach to food, drinks, everything."

noleisthebest wrote:.....in terms of recovery, in terms of just a very professional approach to food, drinks, everything." [/i]

That's the bit that needed highlighted.

Also Nole doesn;t talk about creativity and flair when talking about his or Coric's game. That's what talent is really about.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:.....in terms of recovery, in terms of just a very professional approach to food, drinks, everything." [/i]

That's the bit that needed highlighted.

Also Nole doesn;t talk about creativity and flair when talking about his or Coric's game. That's what talent is really about.

I left that one for you

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

Tenez is more recent...as at first I was FedererExpress

Well at least you changed to a nice name you can keep for ever.
What am I going to do with my name when Nole retires?

NITB, relax, I'll always be on hand to help you choose a new username.

What do you make of that topic Kim? How can you explain that Nadal is declining when clearly more and more players reach their best at 28....if not more.

Because Nadal started playing as a pro from a very early age, so he peaked earlier than normal and declining earlier than average players.
Nadal is nearly 29, and that is historically the age where players do start to have less success in terms of titles.

I don't even need to look at how other players have done though to see how Nadal is declining... I just have to watch him play.
Forehand seems to be making tonnes of unforced errors even on low risk shots, backhand is a non entity, served serve return doesn't even cross the service line half the time, second serve itself is nearly as bad as Murray's... etc.

Do you think Nole is declining Kim?
What about during 2013? Was that his peak? Rafa has still beaten Novak who is improving (not the confidence of 2011) at the FO since '12. 
I hear 2008 and 2010 bandied about as his peak.

I think 2008-2013 were his peak years (he was aged between 23 and 27 those years). The best I've ever seen him play is the stretch on the US hard courts summer of 2013 where he did the Montreal-Cincy-USO triple.

Do you think Nole is declining?
If you say Rafa's peak wasn't 2014 then it was still good enough to beat Djoko, at the FO, who is improving his game.

I think Djokovic's prime years may be different to Nadal (remember Nadal started as pro when he was very young).
Djokovic is currently at his peak years, and tbh I'm not sure how much longer he will be there. Perhaps 1-2 more years ?

Tenez wrote:It is interesting to note that despite the arrival of Nishi, Rao and Cilic in the top 10, the average age is 28.6.

This makes perfectly sense to me, 28 is around what i would expect to be a players best year, a least his most succesful year. No wonder Federer won his one and only slam on his least steady surface at the age of 28 (ok, that was a teaser )

28: old enough for having developed a fully matured game, and young enough for still having a decent (natural) testosterone level, which benefits recovery, speed, strength, focus, confidence ect ect

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't even need to look at how other players have done though to see how Nadal is declining... I just have to watch him play.
Forehand seems to be making tonnes of unforced errors even on low risk shots, backhand is a non entity, served serve return doesn't even cross the service line half the time, second serve itself is nearly as bad as Murray's... etc.

In th epast he was getting away with crap shots. Now players are putting more strain on him. I agree he is not playing well right now.....but that has been the case in th epast too and then suddenly he comes back pumped up with a very complete game.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I think Djokovic's prime years may be different to Nadal (remember Nadal started as pro when he was very young).
Djokovic is currently at his peak years, and tbh I'm not sure how much longer he will be there. Perhaps 1-2 more years ?

You know that's non sense. I completely debunked that argument in another thread even proving that Fed played more games at an earlier age than Nadal.

Regarding Djoko's pic years, you are making the same mistake most do....other players will push Djoko down like Mc/Lendl  beat  Borg, Nadal/Djoko beat  Federer and Djoko beat nadal. If it was not for Djoko and Nadal Fed would still be number 1. Same for Nadal.

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:It is interesting to note that despite the arrival of Nishi, Rao and Cilic in the top 10, the average age is 28.6.

This makes perfectly sense to me, 28 is around what i would expect to be a players best year, a least his most succesful year. No wonder Federer won his one and only slam on his least steady surface at the age of 28 (ok, that was a teaser )

28: old enough for having developed a fully matured game, and young enough for still having a decent (natural) testosterone level, which benefits recovery, speed, strength, focus, confidence ect ect

But in 4 moths time, the average age of the top 10 will be 29 not 28. So how do you explain that in 2006 the average age of the top 5 was actually nearly 6 years younger? ....Average age was considerably younger in the past.

To me the peak years vary of course with style. Crafty players probably reach their best game at 33 whereas physical players at 27/8. But between 28 to 33 there is hardly any noticeable difference in level. However in both cases it is irrelevant when their peak is as they are simply pushed down the ranking by new players who simply trained younger at a higher level, thanks to those top players.

Coric for instance has a huge advantage being exposed young at a tennis Federer was not exposed young. That is clearly what is shortening the career of players, plus of course, the technology/training/diet changes.

What we can see clearly is that money and knowledge actually helps players getting fitter and therefore helps top players staying at the top longer nowadays.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

Tenez is more recent...as at first I was FedererExpress

Well at least you changed to a nice name you can keep for ever.
What am I going to do with my name when Nole retires?

NITB, relax, I'll always be on hand to help you choose a new username.

He, he...
How many have you had so far?
Actually, I'm surprised none of the ones I know mention Nadal.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:.....in terms of recovery, in terms of just a very professional approach to food, drinks, everything." [/i]

That's the bit that needed highlighted.
Also Nole doesn;t talk about creativity and flair when talking about his or Coric's game. That's what talent is really about.

I noticed.
From that point of view quite different from what Fed said about Coric.
Then again, with Nole's comment it's more to do with protective, local, Balkan "brotherhood" thing. Despite the wars and chaos of the 90s, all Croatian, even East European players admire Nole and look up to him as "one of them" who made it in the big wide world.

But even that aside, over the years I have stopped being surprised at how pros, past and present actually don't have a full understanding of tennis (think no further than McEnroe's obsession with Nadal) even the very intelligent ones like Nole.
There is probably an element of pride there, too...how else can one explain those vain comments from Sampras about Federer.

And lastly, with Davis Cup first round coming this weekend, we'll have a chance to see Nole play Coric in the best of 5.

Yes I am not sure what to think about those past champions at times. I think McEnroe is more of a proper commercial commentator, I mean just selling the player. He probably sees it right but doesn;t care much. I have seen him a couple of times in exhos, and everysingle time again loses his temper like an actor selling his brand of tennis and brashness knowing perfectly he is as calm as a mountain lake inside. A bit ridiculous but spectators like that...Like Amri likes Mc's comments about Nadal I guess.

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't even need to look at how other players have done though to see how Nadal is declining... I just have to watch him play.
Forehand seems to be making tonnes of unforced errors even on low risk shots, backhand is a non entity, served serve return doesn't even cross the service line half the time, second serve itself is nearly as bad as Murray's... etc.

In th epast he was getting away with crap shots. Now players are putting more strain on him. I agree he is not playing well right now.....but that has been the case in th epast too and then suddenly he comes back pumped up with a very complete game.

Just watch him play Tenez, irrelevant of his age, it's obvious he's on the decline... he's missing easy put-aways, ballooning backhands randomly even when under no pressure and on top of a rally; anyone objective can see what I'm saying.

NITB, if I have Nadal in my username, people may jump to conclusions and think I'm a Nadal fan 

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Just watch him play Tenez, irrelevant of his age, it's obvious he's on the decline... he's missing easy put-aways, ballooning backhands randomly even when under no pressure and on top of a rally; anyone objective can see what I'm saying.

But that's nothing to do with declining. No player make more mistakes with age. It's the other way around. Timing seriously improves til late 30s. A player reads teh game better, anticipates better, and time the ball better. The reason Nadal is all over the place at the moment is unknown though I suspect he tires quicker cause players hurt him more now than then but he will his patch again. he is only 28/29.

I remember seeing him in 2011 and 2012 playing terrible as well and even thought he was tanking ...just to see him win the tournament and and having his best year in 2013. So your declining argument is a joke. Only his hair decline.

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Just watch him play Tenez, irrelevant of his age, it's obvious he's on the decline... he's missing easy put-aways, ballooning backhands randomly even when under no pressure and on top of a rally; anyone objective can see what I'm saying.

But that's nothing to do with declining. No player make more mistakes with age. It's the other way around.  Timing seriously improves til late 30s. A player reads teh game better, anticipates better, and time the ball better. The reason Nadal is all over the place at the moment is unknown though I suspect he tires quicker cause players hurt him more now than then but he will his patch again. he is only 28/29.

I remember seeing him in 2011 and 2012 playing terrible as well and even thought he was tanking ...just to see him win the tournament and and having his best year in 2013. So your declining argument is a joke. Only his hair decline.

No player makes more mistakes with age ?
Well let me give you an example of one who is... Rafael Nadal. 
He is playing miles worse than 2011 and 2012, are you being serious in suggesting the contrary ? You think the same player who is making tonnes of unforced errors randomly against Berlocq and struggling in tiebreaks is the same player who thrashed Federer 6-3 6-1 6-0 in a Grand Slam final ?

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
No player makes more mistakes with age ?
Well let me give you an example of one who is... Rafael Nadal. 
He is playing miles worse than 2011 and 2012, are you being serious in suggesting the contrary ? You think the same player who is making tonnes of unforced errors randomly against Berlocq and struggling in tiebreaks is the same player who thrashed Federer 6-3 6-1 6-0 in a Grand Slam final ?

How did he manage to win RG last year demolishing Ferrer, Murray?
That same Ferrer beat him a few weeks before.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:NITB, if I have Nadal in my username, people may jump to conclusions and think I'm a Nadal fan 

So you are not a Nadal fan, then.
That's a relief.