ATP Masters 1000: Rome

rewatching the key points, I would have fancied federer to beat nadal today too.

I remember I was never too sure how "injured" was nadal in that AO final....but I tend to believe that Stan was part of this "injury"...a mental injury even. It reminded me how Coria was having cramps while leading 2 sets and a break in his FO final. .

Still very little men are able to beat NAdal at RG but Stan is one of 'm in my view.
His game is big enough to hit through NAdal and a relatively slow court gives him time to pull the trigger.

Tenez wrote:rewatching the key points, I would have fancied federer to beat nadal today too.

not sure about that. Stan's power is like a tsunami, it keeps coming. Whereas Federer comes up with much more variation (forced to do so BTW) which isn't doing much harm to NAdal

The matches tomorrow seem quite open, but 2 straight forward wins by Djoko and Federer won't surprise me.

Nadal protects his precious h2h's against djoko and fed once again- to give his fans something to hang their hat on

gallery play wrote:Still very little men are able to beat NAdal at RG but Stan is one of 'm in my view.
His game is big enough to hit through NAdal and a relatively slow court gives him time to pull the trigger.

Doubt it. The soft balls will kill Stan's pace.

truffin1 wrote:Nadal protects his precious h2h's against djoko and fed once again-  to give his fans something to hang their hat on

Good point!

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:rewatching the key points, I would have fancied federer to beat nadal today too.

not sure about that. Stan's power is like a tsunami, it keeps coming. Whereas Federer comes up with much more variation (forced to do so BTW) which isn't doing much harm to NAdal

I am not sure myself...but fed's FH has nothing to envy to Stan and what Stan was able to do is keep Nadal at bay with his BH....but with his new racquet and Nadal's lack of confidence I woud have really fancied his chances. better serves and better volleying, mouvement, etc....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y72Otph0uYI

Fed candid about the matchup problem Nadal creates for him.

Just saw the match now.  Great win for Stan.  He played some massive shots.  The TB from 2-6 down was amazing.

But Rafa was also playing quite well.  I would say one of his best matches of the season; certainly better than against Andy.  He has been improving and if he continues like this he may still be very hard to beat at RG.

Tenez wrote:And at the French, it will be played in teh middle of the day under the sun with softer balls. That will make a big difference...believe me.

Yes.

Stan's biggest victory last night was keeping his composure. All those wonderful shots would've meant nothing if he had panicked.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:And at the French, it will be played in teh middle of the day under the sun with softer balls. That will make a big difference...believe me.

Yes.

Stan's biggest victory last night was keeping his composure. All those wonderful shots would've meant nothing if he had panicked.

True like most players used to.

I was just watching highlights.
Stan was broken and Nadal 30:00 up on his serve at the beginning. It was all following the usual script...

The TB was particularly impressive.

summerblues wrote:Just saw the match now.  Great win for Stan.  He played some massive shots.  The TB from 2-6 down was amazing.

But Rafa was also playing quite well.  I would say one of his best matches of the season; certainly better than against Andy.  He has been improving and if he continues like this he may still be very hard to beat at RG.

He was playing well until he broke STan for the second time in that first set. Then very bizarrely he started to be over aggressive (2 shots (serve and FH winner) points) and produced 2 or 3 UEs. and got broken back. He would never have been that aggressive in the past. He woudl have pursued his gruelling long rally tennis to kill any spirit...but for some reasons Nadal cannot rally as much as before.

he starts very strong but runs out of steam quicker than in the past....and that is probably due to the quicker pace between points.

And what's amazing is how average Stan started this tournament. I was watching him losing vs Monaco, a set and 1:4 down...
He dug himself out by sheer will.

Then played himself into some good flowing tennis against Thiem.

And then Nadal...didn't Stan want to prove a point?
(btw, what do you all make of "See you tomorrow RF written in the camera?)

This must be one of Nadal's most painful losses.

But, he's ready for RG.
You won't hear any "humble" rubbish from him between now and Paris, he is seething and raring to go!

Congratulations to Stan, well done. I stopped  watching their match and it is useless to repeat what was the reason.

From my view it is a shame that we can't see Fedal match after a longer period. It seems to be clear that Nadal bets everything onto RG's card and his next match with Fed would tell us  more about his game as he takes these matches really competitive and then h2h.

Nadal's game strategy is tattered currently. He knows that he can't moonbal too long, but his approaching shots are not good enough for going for volleys. So, his current game is schizophrenic.
Slow court and dead balls will help him much at RG.

I am actually glad there is no Fedal match today.

I am happy Stan put Nadal in his place and beat him playing full-on attacking tennis.
Hats off to him for the effort!

We can now enjoy some proper tennis on clay after such a long time.

Two attacking SBH-ers with different styles: the smooth all-court finery vs the raw, no-nonsense tennis.

Well done to the two hearty Swiss men keeping SBH tennis alive

noleisthebest wrote:And what's amazing is how average Stan started this tournament. I was watching him losing vs Monaco, a set and 1:4 down...

Again, let's not get overexcited by Stan's perf...Nadal can be easy to play if you handle his spin. Rosol and many others have done it. It's being able to produce such winners when the ball comes back much faster which is difficult.....so let's see this afternoon.

Tenez wrote:

summerblues wrote:Just saw the match now.  Great win for Stan.  He played some massive shots.  The TB from 2-6 down was amazing.

But Rafa was also playing quite well.  I would say one of his best matches of the season; certainly better than against Andy.  He has been improving and if he continues like this he may still be very hard to beat at RG.

He was playing well until he broke STan for the second time in that first set. Then very bizarrely he started to be over aggressive (2 shots (serve and FH winner) points) and produced 2 or 3 UEs. and got broken back. He would never have been that aggressive in the past.  He woudl have pursued his gruelling long rally tennis to kill any spirit...but for some reasons Nadal cannot rally as much as before.

he starts very strong but runs out of steam quicker than in the past....and that is probably due to the quicker pace between points.

I think it's just his 1d game got exposed...
Stan was able to return Nadal's balls and did not panic.
Nadal&Toni really didn't count on that.

Stan's pacy shots were exhausting to retrieve.
By Nadal's admission:
"Stan played crazy"

But Murray did the same last week, except that he was safer.

We have a few fit players now that are mot panicking any more and that is making a big difference.
Those soul-destroying points that were winning suoer tight matches for Nadal for so long have finally turned the tide.

Nadal is as fit as ever and playing the best tennis of his career.

Roland Garros will be very interesting. If Nadal doesn't win it this year he's be crushed completely.
Sponsors will put pressure on and Nadal will have nowhere to go with his 1d tennis.

If you watch how Fed bagelled Nadal on clay in the 3rd set in Hamburg 07, it's the same thing: short ball easy to put away.....Nadal nowadays tires like he did only in extreme circumstances back then.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:And what's amazing is how average Stan started this tournament. I was watching him losing vs Monaco, a set and 1:4 down...

Again, let's not get overexcited by Stan's perf...Nadal can be easy to play if you handle his spin. Rosol and many others have done it. It's being able to produce such winners when the ball comes back much faster which is difficult.....so let's see this afternoon.

I am not getting overexcited, just happy for Stan. He's been in Fed's shadow for so long and is due some praise.

We all know Fed is better than Stan. Stan included.

Tenez wrote:If you watch how Fed bagelled Nadal on clay in the 3rd set  in Hamburg 07, it's the same thing: short ball easy to put away.....Nadal nowadays tires like he did only in extreme circumstances back then.

Yes, but why does he tire?
Because everyone is hitting the ball harder now, which goes back to that Nadal-Verdasco AO SF match comparison...
Fed was beating Nadal by taking time away from him.
Only he and Nishi were able to do it.

Nole was outlasting him, and now Murray and Stan are just patiently juicing him out with sending hard balls consistently not panicking in the process. And it's still close.

Nadal's body language last night was very telling.

Nadal:

I didn't have enough leg in some moments today. He played crazy. He hit amazing shots in a lot of moments, and especially important one. At 6-2 he played a lot of good points.

I am not very happy with the way I played. During the night the ball is bigger, the bounces are not that high. So he has the chance to go for it. And he was on fire.''

i.e. he can't wait to get to Chatrier...

Not enough legs? Amazing how many balls he brought back. But I agree with him about the day night problem...for him. Would have been much harder to time at noon.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:If you watch how Fed bagelled Nadal on clay in the 3rd set  in Hamburg 07, it's the same thing: short ball easy to put away.....Nadal nowadays tires like he did only in extreme circumstances back then.

Yes, but why does he tire?
Because everyone is hitting the ball harder now, which goes back to that Nadal-Verdasco AO SF match comparison...
Fed was beating Nadal by taking time away from him.
Only he and Nishi were able to do it.

Nole was outlasting him, and now Murray and Stan are just patiently juicing him out with sending hard balls consistently not panicking in the process. And it's still close.

Nadal's body language last night was very telling.

Yes rallies are certainly quicker nowadays as players simply hit harder on average. Also it seems Fed showed the way to the net and a few more players are doing it now more often.

noleisthebest wrote:
(btw, what do you all make of "See you tomorrow RF written in the camera?)

That's a testament to the kind of relationship they have. Like 2 brothers who get along but not without an everlasting competition.
I guess Roj texted Stan before the match: "see you tomorrow"

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal:

I didn't have enough leg in some moments today. He played crazy. He hit amazing shots in a lot of moments, and especially important one. At 6-2 he played a lot of good points.

I am not very happy with the way I played. During the night the ball is bigger, the bounces are not that high. So he has the chance to go for it. And he was on fire.''

i.e. he can't wait to get to Chatrier...

Nadals solution for everything is "getting faster and stronger". It's how it always have worked for him. But the problem is the FH: it's not the intimidating and steady shot it used to be. He hits it so grimly. The tension in his arm takes the power and precision away.
I don't see him playing better than ever. Watching him now, it's hard to believe he has 14 slams under his belt.

Tenez wrote:He was playing well until he broke STan for the second time in that first set. Then very bizarrely he started to be over aggressive (2 shots (serve and FH winner) points) and produced 2 or 3 UEs. and got broken back.

Yes, that was an odd game from him.  But that was pretty much the only game the whole match he did that.  He did not lose the TB with odd plays - Stan just blew him off the court from 2-6 down.

Rafa was playing quite ok yesterday.  He will be very dangerous at the RG.  If he plays like this, he will not win the FO, but he will get himself at least to around QF, which will have given him more time to play himself into form.

I sat myself down to watch and realized I do not know who I am rooting for today.

Does not happen very often.  I will find out as the match unfolds.

gallery play wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal:

I didn't have enough leg in some moments today. He played crazy. He hit amazing shots in a lot of moments, and especially important one. At 6-2 he played a lot of good points.

I am not very happy with the way I played. During the night the ball is bigger, the bounces are not that high. So he has the chance to go for it. And he was on fire.''

i.e. he can't wait to get to Chatrier...

Nadals solution for everything is "getting faster and stronger". It's how it always have worked for him. But the problem is the FH: it's not the intimidating and steady shot it used to be. He hits it so grimly. The tension in his arm takes the power and precision away.
I don't see him playing better than ever. Watching him now, it's hard to believe he has 14 slams under his belt.

Neither do I but in the past he would have won yesterday match with this level and even playing worse just because the opposition was making way too many easy mistakes. Now most are simply happy to keep rallying while in the oast they had the urge to pull the trigger early.

But this accumulation of losses is certainly getting into his head and it showed yesterday, in the TB in particular.

summerblues wrote:I sat myself down to watch and realized I do not know who I am rooting for today.

Does not happen very often.  I will find out as the match unfolds.

do you mean between Stan or fed Ferrer Djko or both matches?

Tenez wrote:

summerblues wrote:I sat myself down to watch and realized I do not know who I am rooting for today.

Does not happen very often.  I will find out as the match unfolds.

do you mean between Stan or fed Ferrer Djko or both matches?

Nole vs Ferrer.

I like Stan but I know who I will be rooting for there.

Where is rotla? He must be pleased with last night's result.

Ferrer for me. I quite like him.

Tenez wrote:Ferrer for me. I quite like him.

I find his matches fairly boring.  I know he tries, but just does not have either firepower, or variety to be interesting for me.

I would probably still root for him if I were not hoping to see Federer vs Nole tomorrow - to see how Fed matches against Nole on clay currently.

I find Djoko's game depressing. He is serving v Ferrer yet ends up being the retriever! If it was not for his serve he woudl have lost that set.

Tenez wrote:I find Djoko's game depressing. He is serving v Ferrer yet ends up being the retriever!

Yes, was just thinking how much Nole is just happy to defend this set.  Ferrer definitely the one trying to create something, but unable to penetrate Nole.

Pretty depressing that the best hope to dethrone Rafa at RG is Nole.  It would be so nice if they could both lose early.

Nole's legs are  heavy today.
Looks like the match with Nishi took out a lot out of him.

Playing Ferrer is like ironing: nobody likes it, but it has to be done...

Pretty simple win. Nole upped the aggression in the second set.

summerblues wrote:Pretty depressing that the best hope to dethrone Rafa at RG is Nole.  It would be so nice if they could both lose early.

Welcome to OTF....

summerblues wrote:Where is rotla?  He must be pleased with last night's result.

The match ended well after 3 AM my timing... so was  tired today. 

Last night Stan played great. Played some key points better than ever. Especially the TB.

Nadal played his old usual game.

summerblues wrote:Pretty depressing that the best hope to dethrone Rafa at RG is Nole.  It would be so nice if they could both lose early.

Haha..  Fed's dominance in 2005-07 was quite different from the dominance Djokovic is having now. Fed though was winning almost everything in that period bar RG et al, yet it didn't look boring, in fact very interesting. His tennis always had enough element to surprise no matter how many times you see him win.

With Djokovic and Nadal, as a spectator, most of the times, you already know what's coming.  

That's why their dominance fast becomes boring.

Tenez wrote:

summerblues wrote:Pretty depressing that the best hope to dethrone Rafa at RG is Nole.  It would be so nice if they could both lose early.

Welcome to OTF....

I suppose you'll all have to put up with me, as I do NOT want Nole to lose early. On the contrary!

Maybe I should start a new forum...where I'll be welcomed by my own self...

yes...we try our best moderate ourselves when it comes to Djoko...but it's tough! Especially when I see a backhand slice of his!

Tenez wrote:Especially when I see a backhand slice of his!

LOL

Roger

Roger has developed a poor TMS1000 final percentage...21 wins for 17 losses.....I remember the time when he won 12 (or was it 24 finals in a row??!!!!)

What a waste from Federer!!!! 2 dead easy FHs to put away at 40/15......missed!