ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Buenos Aires

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I said on v2 Coric is being hyped too much, and see what happens.

He is not really. He will struggle versus aggressive players...but Djoko, Murray and Nadal are going to have a very hard time with him.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:The thing is Federer is a bad opponent to gauge Coric's strength. I think Djoko woudl have strugggled quite a bit more.

Nole would have no trouble against Coric, I think. Fed is a good measure, I think, he makes Coric look nowhere near as good as Murray yesterday.

You will be up for a surprise pretty soon...a few month. Coric does everything much better than Djoko at the same age....bar the serve. Coric being slightly shorter, he will be able to outlast Djoko pretty easily.

Bet that won't happen. No way.

You said something similar about Dimitrov when he beat Djokovic in Madrid 2013, this guy loses against Federer 6-2 6-1 and you're excited somehow. Both his wins against Nadal (appendicitis) and Murray (post-AO menstrual) weren't that impressive tbh

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:The thing is Federer is a bad opponent to gauge Coric's strength. I think Djoko woudl have strugggled quite a bit more.

Nole would have no trouble against Coric, I think. Fed is a good measure, I think, he makes Coric look nowhere near as good as Murray yesterday.

You will be up for a surprise pretty soon...a few month. Coric does everything much better than Djoko at the same age....bar the serve. Coric being slightly shorter, he will be able to outlast Djoko pretty easily.

I actually look forward to seeing them play.

But to me Coric is actually going to look more like Agut than Nole as a finished product with Agut being smaller and cleaner ball-striker.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:The thing is Federer is a bad opponent to gauge Coric's strength. I think Djoko woudl have strugggled quite a bit more.

Nole would have no trouble against Coric, I think. Fed is a good measure, I think, he makes Coric look nowhere near as good as Murray yesterday.

You will be up for a surprise pretty soon...a few month. Coric does everything much better than Djoko at the same age....bar the serve. Coric being slightly shorter, he will be able to outlast Djoko pretty easily.

Bet that won't happen. No way.

You said something similar about Dimitrov when he beat Djokovic in Madrid 2013, this guy loses against Federer 6-2 6-1 and you're excited somehow. Both his wins against Nadal (appendicitis) and Murray (post-AO menstrual) weren't that impressive tbh

Actually Tenez is right.
Coric has a perfect game for Nole, Nadal and Murray.
All he is lacking atm is stamina.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I said on v2 Coric is being hyped too much, and see what happens.

He is hyped but for a reason.
Not many young players are able to keep the ball in play so well, esp against physically superior older players.

noleisthebest wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:The thing is Federer is a bad opponent to gauge Coric's strength. I think Djoko woudl have strugggled quite a bit more.

Nole would have no trouble against Coric, I think. Fed is a good measure, I think, he makes Coric look nowhere near as good as Murray yesterday.

You will be up for a surprise pretty soon...a few month. Coric does everything much better than Djoko at the same age....bar the serve. Coric being slightly shorter, he will be able to outlast Djoko pretty easily.

Bet that won't happen. No way.

You said something similar about Dimitrov when he beat Djokovic in Madrid 2013, this guy loses against Federer 6-2 6-1 and you're excited somehow. Both his wins against Nadal (appendicitis) and Murray (post-AO menstrual) weren't that impressive tbh

Actually Tenez is right.
Coric has a perfect game for Nole, Nadal and Murray.
All he is lacking atm is stamina.

Djokovic will thrash him if they meet at any point this year. Nadal and Murray are much more prone to off-days, so if they have a shocker (injured or just all over the place), then yes Coric would be able to take advantage. If any of the top 10 played their best against Coric, he would be toast.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Djokovic will thrash him if they meet at any point this year. Nadal and Murray are much more prone to off-days, so if they have a shocker (injured or just all over the place), then yes Coric would be able to take advantage. If any of the top 10 played their best against Coric, he would be toast.

Nole would beat him, not sure about thrashing.
They play the same game.
The way to beat them is to hit them off the court with powerful shots.
Fed was in his B-form today and look at the score.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:The thing is Federer is a bad opponent to gauge Coric's strength. I think Djoko woudl have strugggled quite a bit more.

Nole would have no trouble against Coric, I think. Fed is a good measure, I think, he makes Coric look nowhere near as good as Murray yesterday.

You will be up for a surprise pretty soon...a few month. Coric does everything much better than Djoko at the same age....bar the serve. Coric being slightly shorter, he will be able to outlast Djoko pretty easily.

Bet that won't happen. No way.

You said something similar about Dimitrov when he beat Djokovic in Madrid 2013, this guy loses against Federer 6-2 6-1 and you're excited somehow. Both his wins against Nadal (appendicitis) and Murray (post-AO menstrual) weren't that impressive tbh

There is always a chance that a player goes South like Dimi has been going recently...but Coric seems very willing and focus. His mouvement and and cross court shots are exceptional good for an 18yo. Only big servers will keep him at bay.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Actually Tenez is right.
Coric has a perfect game for Nole, Nadal and Murray.
All he is lacking atm is stamina.

Djokovic will thrash him if they meet at any point this year. Nadal and Murray are much more prone to off-days, so if they have a shocker (injured or just all over the place), then yes Coric would be able to take advantage. If any of the top 10 played their best against Coric, he would be toast.[/quote]
Yesterday Murray was not on great form but what was striking is that he felt he had no choice but to attack. ...and attacking when you are not in the mood or not used to, can be extremely difficult. Andy said in his interview that e made way too many mistakes.....true....but how many matches has he won drawing those mistakes from the opponent.

Fed has teh game to hurt so clearly he is used by now to playing those road runners but had not Fed got so aggressive and gone to teh net as much he woudl have been bound to rally much more.

Coric won;t beat Djoko tomorrow... but it is no coincidence he has already a win out of Nadal and Murray. One cannot push the ball against him....and in a year or so...he should be able to really be the roadrunners threat.

Nole looks like a rake compared to Berd.

I suppose if you've seen one of their 17:2 matches, you've seen them all.
Close first set and then breeze.

Tenez, that was NITB who said that quote, not me   ^^

Coric will not get another top 10 win for the rest of the year I bet, unless they're injured.

noleisthebest wrote:Nole looks like a rake compared to Berd.

I suppose if you've seen one of their 17:2 matches, you've seen them all.
Close first set and then breeze.

Ok, maybe not that close in the first set
Nole absolutely toying with Berdych.

Other way around it seems nitb.

Wow Berdych takes the set 7-5!

COME OOON

Yes...
Still a really dull match.
I'm only watching it for Boris's facial expressions

I love it when Goat Federer teaches these youngsters.

Btw sorry to say but if anyone buys the times newspaper tomorrow, go to the register section and check out the piece on Frank Borghi.
No byline but it's me

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Tenez, that was NITB who said that quote, not me   ^^

Coric will not get another top 10 win for the rest of the year I bet, unless they're injured.

Bet taken!

luvsports! wrote:Btw sorry to say but if anyone buys the times newspaper tomorrow, go to the register section and check out the piece on Frank Borghi.
No byline but it's me

Well done! Excellent start!

Woaw....what happened between Berd and Djoko? Did Djoko suddenly decide to make it a spectacle for the crowd?

...or Did Berd remember he could believe!

luvsports! wrote:Btw sorry to say but if anyone buys the times newspaper tomorrow, go to the register section and check out the piece on Frank Borghi.
No byline but it's me

Well done!
I can't remember last time I bought a newspaper (actually I do! it was when Nole won Wimbledon in 2011, I got about 4 ).
I'll have a look at the gym tomorrow.

Tennis needs decent journalists, they are almost non-existent in the UK.
Simon Barnes was good but they sacked him...

Tenez wrote:Woaw....what happened between Berd and Djoko? Did Djoko suddenly decide to make it a spectacle for the crowd?

...or Did Berd remember he could believe!

Well, it was an awful match...
I didn't see much of the 1set bagel, but the rest was just a misery.
As usual, Nole lost focus and started playing terribly. His FH vanished and with it the confidence so it was just these super-dull mid court unimaginative gutless rallies from both except that Berd was hitting the ball harder.

Nole was a bit like Fed  against Coric today - bored and not that engaged. All he wanted is a win which he knew he'd get but managed to make a hash of it.

I expect his A self tomorrow or Fed will make a quick work out of him.

noleisthebest wrote:
Simon Barnes was good but they sacked him...

Did they? He came up with some very stupid things at first.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
Simon Barnes was good but they sacked him...

Did they? He came up with some very stupid things at first.

Yes, last year I think. Apparently they had to cut the budget...then that copyright scandal with Neil Harman broke out so they had to sack him, too., and I'm glad they did because Harman was always a fake, never ever wrote anything memorable.
Barnes had some lovely pieces during Wimbledon time, I even typed the one about Federer here, I think.
I suppose he is a bit of a hippie, but at least had his own original thoughts and was quite perceptive compared to most others who only seem to network, back-stab and chum around in order to keep their jobs - percentage journalism!

Coric:

"When you come on the court and when you actually feel the ball and feel the pressure which he's making, it's actually tougher than when you're watching it on the sofa in front of the TV."
( I can just imagine!)
I was feeling yesterday like I won the Grand Slam, and then today I need to go out again after 24 hours and play against a guy who is--we all know who he is.

This is almost a dream come true. I was watching him since I was maybe six or seven. I was watching him play Wimbledon, playing all the Slams. I was saying, ‘I wish I could play with him one day.’ And today I was playing against him.


Federer:

"I can see why he has caused difficulties for some of the top guys, and he still has a lot of room for improvement in his game,” Federer said. “He does a really good job for a big guy, again… Big guys used to come forward. Now they stay at the baseline and move well, so I'm very impressed with that. I think he returns very well, especially off second serves, and that's such a huge part of today's game, I believe."

Thanks guys. Proud moment to say the least.

Congrats LS !

You can be harmans replacement

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Tenez, that was NITB who said that quote, not me   ^^

Coric will not get another top 10 win for the rest of the year I bet, unless they're injured.

Bet taken!

It's on then

Haha cheers. The plagiarism route is tempting

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
Simon Barnes was good but they sacked him...

Did they? He came up with some very stupid things at first.

Yes, last year I think. Apparently they had to cut the budget...then that copyright scandal with Neil Harman broke out so they had to sack him, too., and I'm glad they did because Harman was always a fake, never ever wrote anything memorable.
Barnes had some lovely pieces during Wimbledon time, I even typed the one about Federer here, I think.
I suppose he is a bit of a hippie, but at least had his own original thoughts and was quite perceptive compared to most others who only seem to network, back-stab and chum around in order to keep their jobs - percentage journalism!

I remember him saying smarter things towards the end. He was a big Murray fan at first and it was bordering the ridicule....If I remember correctly.

noleisthebest wrote:Federer:

"I can see why he has caused difficulties for some of the top guys, and he still has a lot of room for improvement in his game,” Federer said. “He does a really good job for a big guy, again… Big guys used to come forward. Now they stay at the baseline and move well, so I'm very impressed with that. I think he returns very well, especially off second serves, and that's such a huge part of today's game, I believe."

Federer is saying something here.. but I guess does not want to make it too obvious.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Federer:

"I can see why he has caused difficulties for some of the top guys, and he still has a lot of room for improvement in his game,” Federer said. “He does a really good job for a big guy, again… Big guys used to come forward. Now they stay at the baseline and move well, so I'm very impressed with that. I think he returns very well, especially off second serves, and that's such a huge part of today's game, I believe."

Federer is saying something here.. but I guess does not want to make it too obvious.

Federer's interviews are very interesting, he says so much and is always honest (except when he says he's happy for Nadal winning 9th RG )

I think he'd love OTF!

We can invite him to join is once he retires.

That would be great.

It says that Coric is 6'1 but surely this is not up to date....he looks quite big...not tall but very bulky for a 18yo.

He looked the same height as Fed at the net.

But strangely he doesn't show it when he moves, looks smaller.
18 year olds are mean to be skinny, though.

The most interesting thing about him is his age. It's puzzling how only he managed to break through.

What are the other 18 year olds doing?
Where are Wimbledon, USO etc junior champions?

well it is again his athleticism, mouvement that differentiate him from the others...That's the key nowadays for success.

Coric also said:

"He was just way too good for me. I was feeling so rushed. I didn't have any time to play my game plan. I was just trying to hold in the rally as long as I could. I was serving very badly... When you're playing against a guy who is No. 1 or No. 2 in the world, you need to be serving much better if you're going to even compete with him."

He is sounding nicer than I expected when I learnt that his favourite player is Nadal. I got reminded of that when he was letting his opponent wait at the net and jumping around there. Also the fistpump on doublefaults, though maybe understandable considering the circumstance.

I was impressed with his returning ability. Not many guys can bring back the Fed serve so well. I think he described the reason why he still lost with such a comprehensive scoreline pretty well.

Go to 4:30 !!! (and have it at 720p if possible)



Unreal !!!

Wow insane court coverage! People say he's lost a step. Yikes! From that point I don't see it!

The final shot was stunning, the fake head drop shot was nice too.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Coric will not get another top 10 win for the rest of the year I bet, unless they're injured.

He is what 18y3m old?  He does not need to beat any further top 10 players this year to be good.  He has time on his side.  Even so, I would not be shocked if he did beat another top 10-er sometime this year - why not?  He is going to be around #60 after this week and on his way up.  Quite possible he could take out a top 10 player on an off day.

I know he has time on his side, and he can improve a lot, but my post was in response to what I thought was Tenez overestimating his prospects this year.

	Coric	Federer	Nadal	Djokovic	Murray
Ranking at Coric's age	61*	66	48	97	122
First top 10 win	17y11m	17y5m	16y10m	18y5m	18y9m
First top 3 win	17y11m	19y8m	17y9m	19y9m	18y9m
First tournament win	?	19y4m	18y2m	19y1m	18y9m

*approximate ranking for next week

Coric is definitely moving up the rankings really quickly - if anything, he is ahead of Nole and Andy at the same age.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Go to 4:30 !!! (and have it at 720p if possible)

Unreal !!!

Do you mean 5'01 the bald patch? Honestly, I m serious, never seen such a slow court. It's ridiculous.

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Go to 4:30 !!! (and have it at 720p if possible)

Unreal !!!

Do you mean 5'01 the bald patch? Honestly, I m serious, never seen such a slow court. It's ridiculous.

I actually saw a few points in the second set and thought the same...the court was a sandpit. Delbonis played well but looked quite upset about something.

Match of the Day:

Djokovic-Federer  (it doesn't get better than this atm. Will be quite intersting as neither looked their sharpest selves yesterday; still their matches rarely fail to deliver.)

&

Ferrer-Nishikori (very intriguing, on paper Nishi should win this, but Ferru needs this one more)

Nadal-Berlocq (after seeing the court, I feel sorry for Berlocq. Apart from playing his usual good clay tennis, he'll need the nerves of steel...and then some more.)

Almagro-Monaco (Vamos Mugro!)

I have just realised Nishi (who has already overtaken Murray) can move to number 3 he wins in Mexico and Nadal doesn't win Buenos Aires.

1 Novak Djokovic SRB 13165 - Dubai F - 13365 13365
2 Roger Federer SUI 9005 - Dubai F - 9205 9205
3 Rafael Nadal ESP 5515 +1 Buenos Aires SF - 5575 5675
4 Kei Nishikori JPN 5415 +1 Acapulco F - 5615 5615
5 Andy Murray GBR 5370 -2 - Lost in Dubai QF - -


Murray now at number 5 is going to make someone's life difficult as a QF-ist in IW & Miami.

So we have a close an interesting race for number for seed at RG.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Go to 4:30 !!! (and have it at 720p if possible)

Unreal !!!

Do you mean 5'01 the bald patch? Honestly, I m serious, never seen such a slow court. It's ridiculous.

I actually saw a few points in the second set and thought the same...the court was a sandpit. Delbonis played well but looked quite upset about something.

Nadal could not get shots over the T line...It really looked like a satellite match.

I cannot see Nadal lose that final. he is faced with a bunch of penguins in that tournaments.

Almagro may have chance, though the court is terrible.

In the 5 minutes I watched him last night, Nadal celebrated every point and Delbonis's mistake like he just won another RG almost...

He is desperate .