family tensions

This has puzzled me for years.  At AO 2009 Roger learned that Mirka was carrying twins, a high risk first pregnancy.  It must have been a very fraught time for him, the worry about Mirka and the hit of reality we all get when parenthood looms.  He buckled in the end, but he NEVER SAID A WORD.  Fast forward to FO and we hear whining about parental distress from Nadal.  I mean come on, an accomplished world performer collapses because his PARENTS are having a tiff and everybody buys it?  Roger gathers himself and powers through while Mirka, bless her, stoically attends his matches almost to the point of giving birth - and nobody thinks anything of it!

And then Roger has two tiny girls in his arms and he's flooded with oxytocin and has absolutely no killer instinct.  He won AO because he played Murray and didn't need to be a killer only a tennis player.  I never bought into the decline narrative, I just saw biology happening.  And I was incredulous at the excuses Rafa and Nole could offer for failings with no question, as though it is normal for highly accomplished young people to be felled by their older generation.  For me this absolutely drew a line between the men and the boys.  It's not about talent or drive here, it's about maturity.

Who in the older generation whined about their parents?

People believe anything Nadal and his team feed them.  Getting through to people who believe his nonsense is impossible...  just try getting them to rationally explain how a man with a severe "career threatening" injury comes back on tour and makes x finals in a row, and has his best year on his worst surface.  It doesn't matter which way you wrap it up, something isn't adding up.

Excellent post again BN. The maturity point is so true though I noticed it on other events (essentially on those all weird on court behaviours: time wasting, on court coaching, ball bouncing etc...).
 
Regarding the family stress I guess as stressful it is to expect twins it is also a joy and exciting moment, a divorce is only stress. But that period corresponds to Nadal not playing the whole summer and losing so much muscle mass that players and press were talking about a possible 17 pounds loss by October 09, Nadal not able to take a single set to top 10 players!! Of course we heard that PRP transfusions were illegal then up to and including Sept of that same year. We know how strong and powerful he came back when those "PRP" were finally made legal.
 
I am not sure I understand your point about not "seeing decline, only biology".

Big, big, big topic BN!

Although, I will agree with your ultimate conclusion re: men&boys, I would be very reluctant to judge anyone based on their family.
To start, that's one thing we do not choose - our parents...or in Nadal's case our uncles.

It's easy to squeeze and squash apples and pears in one bag to suit our argument and it often works, but not here.

Who is to say what Federer or you or I would have been like had we been born in Nadal's family, or Nadal in Federer's your or mine...

I think nobody here is left wondering what I think of Nadal, his tennis, his carrying on, yet, if there is one thing I feel sorry for him and it's his family. Despite all the fame and money he has (I am mentioning these just as I know many would consider big factors of happiness), he comes across as a very unhappy man.
I don't know much about his upbringing, but through the years across forums found out that his uncle was quite cruel to him when he was a boy the way he was trying to make a "man out of him".
He only managed to make a mess, unfortunately.
Nole, a very different story. Never would put him in the same story as Nadal. He had a loving warm family and then had to be plucked out of it, go and train in Germany in order to further his career at the very sensitive age of 12. And he suffered a lot emotionally. Could explain why he craves love so much and why the lack of it upsets him. Also, why he was affected by losing those who gave him the love when he was young: his grandfather, his childhood coach.
I think he is a great character, though, very stoic, great both in victories and especially losses.
Fed is most like the "normal" one as he had least distracting deviations: appears to have had a stable, supportive family, no financial struggles, was able to remain close to them and train in his home country, even his own town. A Basel ball boy. And that is nice.
We all watched him grow and mature on the court, and yes, he is quite something in more than one way.
I am not sure I'd agree with the stress of Mirka being pregnant at all. Don't know how she gave birth, but pretty sure it would have been a Cesarean with the twins, it doesn't get less risk than that these days. 
I would say that parents' divorce Nadal potentially went through is certainly more emotionally upsetting and damaging than having a wife expect twins.

A couple of weeks ago, Tipsarevic, forever trying to be "different", said how he does not want to be viewed as a Rocky Balboa, to feel pitied for because of the bombings in Serbia, having to struggle financially...he said it actually didn't affect him much, he was lucky his dad worked in a tennis club and all he cared for is he could play there for free as much as possible all day long.
It made me smile and think of this song:

"We were raised to have fun in life and take it if we can..."

Absolutely disgraceful thread, and I think it shows what depths Federer fans will go to in order to denigrate Nadal and his family.

I think Federer would have been elated and happy at the fact Mirka and him had twins- of course there will be some worry- but overall I think it would have been great joy to him that twins were on the way!
To say 'he buckled eventually'- ie blaming the AO 2009 defeat on that is pathetic- you simply cannot know for sure whether it even affected his tennis performance.

bluenose wrote:Fast forward to FO and we hear whining about parental distress from Nadal.

I'm not sure how closely you follow Nadal, but clearly not very with nonsensical statements like this.
Nadal did not reveal at all during FO 2009 that his parents were divorced. So  you could not have heard anything about it during the FO.
It was only much later he did so, where he talked about the emotional distress it caused him; it was a very closely knit family unit which had been broken.
For  you to try and take advantage of that to try and score some political points on Federer's behalf I think is both symbolic and representative of the depths Federer fans pour hate on Nadal, because Nadal beats him so often.

You like fights Julia don't you? we are not obliged to think like you. BN expresses what he feels and/or sees.

Agree or not, keep it in a fair debating format.

Julia Santamaria wrote:Absolutely disgraceful thread, and I think it shows what depths Federer fans will go to in order to denigrate Nadal and his family.

That is a gross generalization... like all Federer fans do as you suggest. If such a fan does exist, he doesn't need to do much in order to rubbish Nadal.  Nadal is factually the most obnoxious player on tour and has been shown to be a cheat on numerous occasions.

I would argue that his Uncle Toni is the main reason Nadal has such a poor attitude.  His uncle admits to deliberately breaking rules for a start off.

Wow, I finally got a rise out of JS!  I was beginning to feel left out.
I probably wasn't clear enough in explaining why I see the twin thing as significant.  From an obstetrics standpoint, the first pregnancy is the riskiest, followed by the fifth.  A multiple adds risk, not because of the birthing but because of the pregnancy.  There is an increased incidence of problems for both mother and foetuses because of metabolic stresses.  At my first pregnancy first check-up I was told it looked like twins and I had to wait a few weeks for an imaging test to confirm it wasn't.  Believe me, that was a stressful time!  I had already had the pep talk about various precautions to begin and what the pregnancy could be like.  So that was the first thing that popped to mind for me when the twins were revealed - how on earth had Roger managed to hold it together through Wimbledon.

You make a pregnancy sound a lot more complicated than it is BN   (how on earth did a tennis discussion end up here...). Everything in life has a calculated risk in it. 

I noticed modern women make a big deal out of it, where in essence childbearing is a beautiful natural event. Women have been doing it for thousands of years.
Mirka looks like a tough cookie to me, as well as Rog, both down to earth types, and as such I don't think they'd worry about any risks....
Too much "science" talk these days and babies never born with more allergies, "conditions", troubles, risks...

Well this could be a good theme for my just newly created OP. I'll move it to here cause it will get more exposure to start with.

"Now more lesbian propaganda with 'woman's hour'!" - Russell Howard

We get a whole hour?

BN, of course pregnancies have risks; but with the expert medical care I think it's more likely Roger's overriding feeling was looking forward to being a father, rather than being filled with worry.

It is a totally separate topic to the one you used to denigrate Nadal- there are many people close to their family who may be emotionally upset if their parents split up.
To use that against Rafa, is pretty questionable if not disgraceful imo.

Mono, Mirka's Preganancy, a SHBH, Peter Carter, …

Perhaps trauma due a trip to Ethiopia, lack of motivation after meeting Mandela, Jet Lag from flying to AUS, the stress of being married to Mirka (his doubles partner - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoEpkZyPo0k )…

He has/had so many challenges, but still won Wimbledon 2012?

What else is in your magic bag, BN?