Lendl: Murray Is The Real Number One

by noleisthebest Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:45 am

Ivan Lendl:

"If somebody has two majors and an Olympic gold medal and everyone else has only one major — everyone can make their own opinion on that.
Novak is a great player, don’t get me wrong. He has had a phenomenal last 12 months, but under the biggest pressure Andy has two majors and a gold medal.
Yes, there was probably a little more with this because New York was the first, even though I count the Olympics as a major, especially at Wimbledon. But this one was more difficult to win because there was more pressure on Andy than there was at Flushing Meadows.
Every champion knows how many majors they won. Nobody remembers how many weeks they were No 1."

I feel like escaping on some desert island until all this post-Wimbledon Murray-mania goes away....

by noleisthebest Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:48 am

As I have said, I haven't seen the final bar the first two games, so can't comment on the match.
However, I read that Novak served horribly in the final which surprised me as he was serving really well during the whole tournament.
I find it hard to believe that the crowd would have such an effect on him at this stage of his career.
I also read that the match was fixed, i.e. that Novak tanked it. Evidence for it were some unbelievable easy misses he seems to have made all through the match and esp in the last game, as well as that he failed to capitalise on his 4:1 lead in both the 2nd and 3rd set. Novak is no Marin Cilic. So strange, just like that loss to Berdych earlier this year.
I can't bring myself to watching any of it, so asking people here:
Could that be possible?

Don't bite my head off for asking, please Winking

by noleisthebest Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:58 am

A very similar scenario happened at last year's Olympic final, too.
Federer won a gruelling match against Delpotro in the previous round, and then Murray was all over him in the final, with Fed not looking too bothered about it.

by Tenez Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:14 am

I think Lendl* is trying to manufacture Murray from scratch into a champion. He is doing a good job but those words are there to prepare Murray to challenge that number one spot and instill a possible doubt in Djokovic's mind.

Yes he has 1 more mahor than Djokovic, and an Olypic Gold over Djoko but both are on home turf. On clay Murray did bugger all and on HC Murray was pretty lucky to arrive with an extra day rest in that USO final.

Murray doesn't look like the number one to me yet. He certainly looks the fittest player around for now....but Djoko may have other plans.

by N2D2L Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:25 am

NITB.... why did you not watch the final?

Tenez, I believe Sir Andrew Murray is indeed the real world number 1 now. He was injured for the French and clay season, has won Wimbledon and US Open, and would have won AO if not for his blisters.

by Tenez Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:27 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:NITB.... why did you not watch the final?

Tenez, I believe Sir Andrew Murray is indeed the real world number 1 now. He was injured for the French and clay season, has won Wimbledon and US Open, and would have won AO if not for his blisters.

I thought Nadal was the real number 1 without injuries. Laugh

by N2D2L Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:27 am

Tenez wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:NITB.... why did you not watch the final?

Tenez, I believe Sir Andrew Murray is indeed the real world number 1 now. He was injured for the French and clay season, has won Wimbledon and US Open, and would have won AO if not for his blisters.

I thought Nadal was the real number 1 without injuries.

Ah yes, good point.

by noleisthebest Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:53 pm

Tenez wrote:I think Lendl* is trying to manufacture Murray from scratch into a champion. He is doing a good job but those words are there to prepare Murray to challenge that number one spot and instill a possible doubt in Djokovic's mind.

Yes he has 1 more mahor than Djokovic, and an Olypic Gold over Djoko but both are on home turf. On clay Murray did bugger all and on HC Murray was pretty lucky to arrive with an extra day rest in that USO final.

Murray doesn't look like the number one to me yet. He certainly looks the fittest player around for now....but Djoko may have other plans.

Interesting, and makes a lot of sense.
I suppose he is the king of mindgames.

Their next match will be very interesting. Knowing Nole, I expect him to play his socks off and lose only over his own dead body.
If Feds gets himself going for USO, plus all these new names coming up, it could be a very interesting tournament.

Nadal's camp has gone very quiet.

by Tenez Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:00 pm

Lendl in most of his career was actually a victim of mind games...especially coming from Connors, Becker and McEnroe who were the kings of unsettling opponents who had an edgeover them.

However he learnt his lessons and feeds Murray back with it.

by noleisthebest Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:10 pm

How much do those mind games actually really mean and matter?
I suppose they all vary from player to player, but I never fail to be surprised by virtually all players doing it more or less subtly before big matches...or is it just journalists setting them up with their questions?

Talk is often cheap.

by Tenez Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:24 pm

More than mind games, if yuo start to believe you are the true number one...you may become one. That works even at club level...some believe they are better than others and manage to beat them one day even if they clearly are not.

by legendkillar Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:26 pm

I am impartial to mind games if the player involved does have something to back it up with. I don't think Murrays boots are big enough to carry such words. If anything if I was in the Nole camp I would say "Yes he is the best player at the moment, but comes with that are the expectations and Andy has to match those expectations too" play a little reverse psychology.

by Tenez Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:27 pm

legendkillar wrote:I am impartial to mind games if the player involved does have something to back it up with. I don't think Murrays boots are big enough to carry such words. If anything if I was in the Nole camp I would say "Yes he is the best player at the moment, but comes with that are the expectations and Andy has to match those expectations too" play a little reverse psychology.

Indeed and that is I bet what they are doing....or even better gone on holydays and rest without caring what is being said.

by legendkillar Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:35 pm

Agreed.

It's been what 3 days since Andy won and already I feel the press have killed the occasion. Andy faces a big challenge in the American HC swing. I think he could even suffer some early exists at Cincinnati and Montral TBH.

Andy has always struck me as someone that struggles with the weight of expectation.

by noleisthebest Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:55 pm

Tenez wrote:More than mind games, if yuo start to believe you are the true number one...you may become one. That works even at club level...some believe they are better than others and manage to beat them one day even if they clearly are not.

So true!
I remember when during one summer holiday at the age of 6 I managed to convince a girl who lived in France during the year, that she could not speak proper French and I could. Even though I did know a single word of it, just was able to babble and "sound" French.
I gave it to her that she could speak it, but not properly because she was not living in Paris. And she bought it!!!!

by N2D2L Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:10 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Andy has always struck me as someone that struggles with the weight of expectation.

Not anymore.

by laverfan Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:25 am

but under the biggest pressure Andy has two majors and a gold medal.

Very surprising from someone of Lendl's stature and slightly condescending towards others at the top. He has played in many slam finals and seems to have forgotten that every slam match has pressure.

Nadal had Beijing 2008, FO 2008, W 2008. Nadal had quite a bit of pressure to win W 2008.

Federer had 2009 W/RG. He had a lot more pressure to win RG 2009.

Murray has nothing to show on Clay yet, which Lendl needs to help rectify, otherwise yet another Sampras (albeit) with a different style, is what Murray may become, unless he can 14 big ones by the end of his career.

Every champion knows how many majors they won. Nobody remembers how many weeks they were No 1."

This is hilarious. Is he saying Federer's 300 weeks is something easily forgotten? He may have forgotten his own 270. Laugh

by noleisthebest Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:56 am

Yes, that bit about number of weeks as number one let Lendl down...seems he had a go at Fed, too...

Just reminded me why I could warm up to him only towards the end of his career. But the comment definitely spices the rest of the year up, there will be some hungry players wanting that USO trophy more than at the beginning of the season now.

Gulbis must be happy even Ivan has joined his movement of making interviews less "boring" smiley

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:43 am

Lendl is spot on.
Murray is the world number 1 for me, simple as that really.

by Tenez Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:58 am

In a way weeks at number 1 is only important for those who have the records....the rest I agree, who remembers?

Lendl is contradicting himself. He is talking up Murray as number 1 but then says no-one cares about weeks at number 1.

But being number 1 is the most important thing...while you are. Everybody knows no-one can stay number 1 for ever but while you are being number 1 you are the kind of the world. It's a priceless time.

And I am sure Murray and Lendl want that....What Julia thinks is not enough for them...they want the real stuff.

by noleisthebest Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:23 am

Being number one is probably on a par with holding a slam, and must feel phenomenal, but only if you are able to hold onto it for a while.
If you are an accidental number one, than it's got the opposite effect, you know you don't belong there, like Tipsarevic in top 10 or Ferrer in RG final.

Nadal's number one for example was not of the same quality as Novak's let alone Federer's. You can't dominate only one surface (and for half of the year) and claim the proper&rightful ownership of the top spot.

Murray has got a long way to go in many ways and I am not sure if Lendl's talk is going to kill him rather than lift him towards moving forward.

I have always viewed Lendl as very sharp and astute, so he probably knows what he is talking about and whether Murray is ready for that kind of talk.

However, I don't like the reverse and dishonest tone of it, because Lendl can't be thinking like that.
Very much the Toni/Nadal rubbish humble school of thought: I don't care about being number one, I am happy to be number 2, yeah, right!

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:21 pm

noleisthebest wrote: You can't dominate only one surface..

Slams:

Djokovic has won 5/6 on hard courts- that is around 87.5% I believe.
Nadal has won 8/12 on clay- that is around 67% I believe.

So surface wise- Djokovic depends more on HC than Nadal does on clay.

If we are looking at specific slams, Djokovic has won 67% at just AO, just like Nadal at RG.

So I think your point is moot and frankly invalid when comparing Nadal on Djokovic.

Federer's mix on both hard courts and grass is better (in terms of balance), but on clay he hasn't achieved the same results.

by Tenez Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:23 pm

That's one part of the equation. Going deep in slams also shows the variety of a player.

Federer is one of the best clay courter ever if he only has one FO. He has been extremely consistent on that surface. Nadal has 2 slow wimby but his record on grass is not as consitent as Federer on clay. Nadal on HC shows a relatively poor record in consistency compared to the other 2 players.

But at teh end of the days we are arguing about surfaces when nowadays you can play the same game everywhere so the discussion is a bit irrelevant.

by noleisthebest Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:42 pm

Well, surfaces merging have really brought tennis to a standstill.
Now the era of giants is knocking on the door, and I wonder who and how is going to topple them...
I hope ATP continue to think in the right direction and act on it.

I am not sure how Murray is going to carry on once he starts being asked for an input, he has too many similarities with Nadal, I think he even supported the two year ranking.

We have seen his winning ugly style, and I don't think I could handle him Ruling ugly on top...

The next 12 months will be very interesting.

Nadal Djokovic AO 2012 final did trigger some good changes, I think a few more Djokovic Murray finals will have the same effect.
Probably the ugliest match-up right now that displays everything that is wrong with tennis atm.

Knowing how badly desperate Murray is/has been for slam(s) and how much money has been dumped into him, there's not a lot to look forward to once the Imperialstic machinery gets going....

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:21 pm

Tenez wrote:

But at teh end of the days we are arguing about surfaces when nowadays you can play the same game everywhere so the discussion is a bit irrelevant.

Yes, it's certainly easier to win a Career Grand Slam now compared to previously.

About your last point on Nadal's consistency- I think before 2012 he was extremely consistent (I believe he reached every final he played since he was a teenager at Wimbledon). Rosol played a dream match, I watched that live and Rosol was hitting like 2-3 aces a game. Darcis match was different, they were both quite poor and in-fact I think both players were injured, Nadal's movement was even poorer than Steve's so he couldn't still get a set.
So I still think we can say he is consistent at Wimbledon, despite these two early exits.

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:23 pm

noleisthebest wrote: I think a few more Djokovic Murray finals will have the same effect.
Probably the ugliest match-up right now that displays everything that is wrong with tennis atm.

I don't understand why you say that??

I could understand if a Federer fan said that, or a Isner fan said that; but why would you say that as a Djokovic fan?
Surely as the two styles are so similar to Djokovic's base game- it's a Djokovic fan's dream?

by noleisthebest Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:28 pm

Darcis was not poor, he was brilliant. Nadal's movement was also quite fine, his leg grabbing antics was just B grade acting.

It is not the first time Nadal struggled in the early rounds of Wimbledon, I suppose his luck there had to run out one day, he must have used it all up in that semi in RG against Nole.

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:38 pm

Are you still bitter about the RG semi then lol smiley

Nadal won- that's a fact, and Djokovic didn't. Simple as that really.

Also, I didn't see any 'leg grabbing' from Nadal. All I saw is that he couldn't run to fetch the simplest of drop-shots. Now many people say many things about Nadal, but even his biggest critics will agree that putting the effort in to run and put away relatively poor drop-shots is a strong point.
And I don't think Darcis was brilliant, he looked injured too. I believe he took an MTO for his knee, and his elbow had a strapping. I also believe he withdrew the next round as the pain was too much, although I'm not 100% sure on that (it may have been R3?). If it was R2, I think my initial analysis on Darcis was correct.

by noleisthebest Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:46 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:
noleisthebest wrote: I think a few more Djokovic Murray finals will have the same effect.
Probably the ugliest match-up right now that displays everything that is wrong with tennis atm.
I don't understand why you say that??

I could understand if a Federer fan said that, or a Isner fan said that; but why would you say that as a Djokovic fan?
Surely as the two styles are so similar to Djokovic's base game- it's a Djokovic fan's dream?

Although both Murray and Nole play baseline tennis, their games and attitudes are very different.
I don't mind watching them play more compatible styles/players, but against each other it is nothing short of agony for me.
As I said I only saw two and a half games of the final and all there was were very long, safe and gutless rallies with a lot of grunting, bashing and zero flair.
All the above is a lot more on show with Murray as his ball striking is very muscled, laboured and ugly. His on court presence is also a turn-off: no elegance and grace whatsoever.
I can understand weaponless, serveless Ferrer having not many other options and playing like that (and even his tennis has certain beauty as he has elevated grinding to almost an art) but a big man like Murray to be scared of the net ON GRASS!!! , that's unforgivable.
Just like Nadal, Murray is destructing tennis and against Nole who often plays similarly, but dictates as much as he can as soon as he can or his 1st serve lands in, it is just depressing to watch.

From all the glory grass tennis can offer, and we have seen it in quite a few matches during this Wimbledon (Mannarino, Brown, Strakh, Darcis etc), I find the tennis Murray won Wimbledon with - negative, unimaginative, limited, dull, uninspiring, bland, boring, vulgar, daylight robbery!

Imagine the person who paid £84K for a pair of tickets to watch THAT! I really hope he/she didn't know much about tennis and hence didn't have to suffer...

by luvsports! Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:05 pm

Here is the nadal darcis match. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtNf2lbd4Q8

Few things:
1) Nadal did not play well, many shots when he has time to set up (not on the run or moving) he hit it very short, poor approach shots, quite a few uncharacteristic UE's.
2) He didn't move great, but I hesitate to say that he was injured or just moving badly because of the slippy court. I just dont understand how he can move brilliantly at the french, not look at all injured and then move like this.
3) darcis didn't look injured, he retired from a dive/fall from this match but he was moving great.
4) Darcis outplayed nadal for much of the match.

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:50 pm

luvsports! wrote:He didn't move great, but I hesitate to say that he was injured or just moving badly because of the slippy court. I just dont understand how he can move brilliantly at the french, not look at all injured and then move like this.

Well why do you think he was moving the way he was?
I remember in the 2nd set (I think?), Steve played an atrocious dropshot, Nadal ran halfway, started limping, and walked back. For me, that's not what he normally does- he tends to normally punish poor dropshots. Unfortunately that didn't make the highlights reel Winking

As for the difference between clay and grass, I think I talked about that in depth earlier, the BH side anyway.

Nadal did not play well, many shots when he has time to set up (not on the run or moving) he hit it very short, poor approach shots, quite a few uncharacteristic UE's.

Bit like Federer in Indian Wells?

Darcis outplayed nadal for much of the match.

Yes, 3 sets was the fair result.

darcis didn't look injured

He looked edgy and called the doctor a few times IIRC.

by Veejay Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:02 pm

Tenez wrote:I think Lendl* is trying to manufacture Murray from scratch into a champion. He is doing a good job but those words are there to prepare Murray to challenge that number one spot and instill a possible doubt in Djokovic's mind.

Yes he has 1 more mahor than Djokovic, and an Olypic Gold over Djoko but both are on home turf. On clay Murray did bugger all and on HC Murray was pretty lucky to arrive with an extra day rest in that USO final.

Murray doesn't look like the number one to me yet. He certainly looks the fittest player around for now....but Djoko may have other plans.

Totally agree,and of course he would say that as Murray's coach.Not only that,none of the foreign coaches,players or former player/commentators would be stupid enough to be critical about or slate a British player during Wimbledon
lets first see if Murray can actually defend something..the numbers dont lie,if he can defend his U.S open title,he will hold 2 majors in a season which is usually the minimum needed to get the no1 ranking
This past decade the no 1 player in the world has had to win 3 majors in a season to solidify the ranking...Murray is far from that

by luvsports! Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:04 pm

That doesn't really respond to my point though does it. Why was he moving brilliantly at the french and then sub par here.
What has federer got to do with this. Nothing. Can you stay on topic please?

See that last get from darcis? His movement was fine, it was the shoulder I believe that caused the pain, made worse by the serve.

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:17 pm

What has federer got to do with this. Nothing.

No, I was using the Indian Wells match as an example as to how hindered movement can lead to other things such as more unforced errors.

Can you stay on topic please?

You mean about Murray being number 1? Or about Nadal? Or about...? What exactly is on-topic in your book?
I have addressed the OP.

See that last get from darcis? His movement was fine,

I'm pretty sure Darcis called a trainer for his knee, can't find the Utube link of the whole match though.

it was the shoulder I believe that caused the pain,

Yes, I remember that as well. I think both his knee and shoulder was injured then. (btw this is Darcis I'm talking about).

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:22 pm

noleisthebest wrote:As I said I only saw two and a half games of the final

Why? Surely as a Djokovic fan you would watch such an important match like his second Wimbledon final.

and all there was were very long, safe and gutless rallies with a lot of grunting, bashing and zero flair.

Is that both Djokovic and Murray you're talking about? If so, why do you even support Djokovic?
For their to be a 'gutless' rally- surely that means they both have to be taking part in it?

Although both Murray and Nole play baseline tennis, their games and attitudes are very different.

For me there's hardly any difference. Murray is a superior net player and has a better smash.

by luvsports! Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:27 pm

Why not quote that whole line as it clearly refers to my point instead of picking and choosing quotes.
Are you being deliberately pugnacious and slow?
You saw where i entered into the conversation re the nadal darcis match.

I will show you again.
"Why was he moving brilliantly at the french and then sub par here."
That clear enough for you?

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:29 pm

Tenez wrote:Yes he has 1 more mahor than Djokovic, and an Olypic Gold over Djoko but both are on home turf. On clay Murray did bugger all and on HC Murray was pretty lucky to arrive with an extra day rest in that USO final.

1/ I don't think the home turf thing made much of a difference. If not anything it could have easily got to Murray's head and caused his downfall with all the pressure and expectation. It's not like the booed Djokovic anyway.

2/ Murray had an extra day's rest in the USO, but are you really telling me that made a difference? This is Djokovic (remember his AO 12 perfomance), and you're telling me a few comfortable sets against David Ferrer made a difference?

3/ I believe Murray had injured his back for the clay season. Different surfaces can aggravate different injuries. This applies to my earlier point to LS as well.
The speed of the surfaces are similar, but the movement on them still require difference muscles which you put your pressure on and stretch. An injury could potentially 'stay hidden' (ie the consequence of it is limited) on one surface, but flare up on another.

Veejay wrote:if he can defend his U.S open title,he will hold 2 majors in a season which is usually the minimum needed to get the no1 ranking

Well he already holds 2 majors, which count towards his ranking points.
For me he won't get the number 1 ranking, as on clay his results are not good enough.

by N2D2L Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:35 pm

luvsports! wrote:"Why was he moving brilliantly at the french and then sub par here."

LS, why do you think he was?
He had played many tournaments without much of a gap, it's always possible that he overplayed (frankly I think his decision to play Barcelona as well was poor).
And it's not just that he played all the tournaments, he went deep in all of them- so he didn't even get a rest at all! Anyone's body takes a battering there, and Nadal's style is hardly such that he will be immune to this.

As to why the knee will specifically flare up on another surface away from clay, and not on clay,- well my explanation was that on clay he can play the backhand while his feet are sliding, which means less jolting. Of course the more you jolt the leg, the more your patella and other muscles can flare up- especially if there is an inflammation building and you have overplayed it.
NITB even found some Youtube videos which compared the foot movement on clay and grass in slow motion- I can't find it as I forgot which thread that was on- but that would be really useful.

by noleisthebest Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:39 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:As I said I only saw two and a half games of the final
Why? Surely as a Djokovic fan you would watch such an important match like his second Wimbledon final.

and all there was were very long, safe and gutless rallies with a lot of grunting, bashing and zero flair.
Is that both Djokovic and Murray you're talking about? If so, why do you even support Djokovic?
For their to be a 'gutless' rally- surely that means they both have to be taking part in it?

Although both Murray and Nole play baseline tennis, their games and attitudes are very different.
For me there's hardly any difference. Murray is a superior net player and has a better smash.

I have said that many, many times. You either can't or don't want to see it.
Just because I support one player doesn't mean I can't criticise him or dislike things about him. I don't idolise Novak and pretend he is something he is not. He is just a 26 year old man who I can associate with in a unique way I prefer not to go into details about as it is private.
Nothing that would be interesting to anybody except those who know me personally.

So, as you can see, I am not shackled by anything and obliged to defend something indefensible which seems to be the case with almost all Nadal fans.

I hope this alleviates the agony of your curiosity.

by Tenez Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:04 pm

Poor Lendl....must be so tough for him to see Federer, Murray, Djoko and Nadal all winning WImbledon form the baseline. He woudl have won 5 Wimbies had the conds been the same.

by summerblues Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:21 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:Are you still bitter about the RG semi then lol

Nadal won- that's a fact, and Djokovic didn't. Simple as that really.

Also, I didn't see any 'leg grabbing' from Nadal. All I saw is that he couldn't run to fetch the simplest of drop-shots.

...or, to paraphrase you from one sentence earlier: "Darcis won- that's a fact, and Nadal didn't. Simple as that really."

by N2D2L Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:48 am

summerblues wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:Are you still bitter about the RG semi then lol

Nadal won- that's a fact, and Djokovic didn't. Simple as that really.

Also, I didn't see any 'leg grabbing' from Nadal. All I saw is that he couldn't run to fetch the simplest of drop-shots.
...or, to paraphrase you from one sentence earlier: "Darcis won- that's a fact, and Nadal didn't. Simple as that really."

Yes, not only that but he deserved to win in straight sets did Darcis. If Nadal had got a set it would have been unfair give the difference in their levels.

by noleisthebest Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:06 am

The cost of being the "real" number one:

http://msn.foxsports.com/tennis/story/andy-murray-fans-get-cheeky-with-tattoo-tributes-on-rear-end-071013

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/wimbledon-winner-andy-murray-gets-2040135

by Tenez Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:11 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:Are you still bitter about the RG semi then lol

Nadal won- that's a fact, and Djokovic didn't. Simple as that really.

Also, I didn't see any 'leg grabbing' from Nadal. All I saw is that he couldn't run to fetch the simplest of drop-shots.
...or, to paraphrase you from one sentence earlier: "Darcis won- that's a fact, and Nadal didn't. Simple as that really."
Yes, not only that but he deserved to win in straight sets did Darcis. If Nadal had got a set it would have been unfair give the difference in their levels.

Glad you finally recognise Nadal has hardly the talent of a top 100 player.

by N2D2L Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:08 pm

Tenez wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:Are you still bitter about the RG semi then lol

Nadal won- that's a fact, and Djokovic didn't. Simple as that really.

Also, I didn't see any 'leg grabbing' from Nadal. All I saw is that he couldn't run to fetch the simplest of drop-shots.
...or, to paraphrase you from one sentence earlier: "Darcis won- that's a fact, and Nadal didn't. Simple as that really."
Yes, not only that but he deserved to win in straight sets did Darcis. If Nadal had got a set it would have been unfair give the difference in their levels.
Glad you finally recognise Nadal has hardly the talent of a top 100 player.

Do you just make up statements as you go along? Cool

by N2D2L Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:16 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal's clearly hurt but why does it hurt 3 weeks after resting?

gallery play wrote:very strange match, only seen it from the beginning of the third, so i can't really say what's going on.
Nadal looks very inmobile but that's what he looked like in the beginning of the clay season too.
Darcis' performance is solid but not special, not Rosol-like

by Tenez Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:22 pm

I don;t know whether he was that hurt. I thought some of his leg grabbing was close to comical and on the last game Nadal ran as well as ever, trying to put as much pressure as possible.

I think he was possibly cycling down after the FO and did not want to be tested positive again in London. His lack of energy and power is what I noticed above all....but of course blaming a knee which had just given him another FO and ebenfited from 2 weeks of rest.

But you know Amri, the difference is for you Nadal's smile is enough to clear him...for the rest of us, it's not.

by N2D2L Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:30 pm

Tenez wrote:I don;t know whether he was that hurt.

But you said it was 'clear'. Are you now saying you were lying when you said that?

I thought some of his leg grabbing was close to comical and on the last game Nadal ran as well as ever, trying to put as much pressure as possible.

When did he grab his leg? Darcis did not play a dropshot in the last game. Of course he would go for broke though, on the brink of defeat.

I think he was possibly cycling down after the FO and did not want to be tested positive again in London.

Possible- but why would he suddenly get scared of the testers, if he was doping? Why would he not be equally scared in Paris? This theory makes no sense.

His lack of energy and power is what I noticed above all....but of course blaming a knee which had just given him another FO and ebenfited from 2 weeks of rest.

Well he didn't blame the knee in the pre-match interview, infact he was asked 4 times about it and each time he refused to give a reply.

But you know Amri, the difference is for you Nadal's smile is enough to clear him...for the rest of us, it's not.

What's Amri? I don't know Amri.
What has Nadal's smile got to do with anything?
Who's 'the rest'?

by luvsports! Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:38 pm

Old uncle toni ambiguous as ever!

"What happened, we lose the match. That’s what happened, nothing else. Rafael has played a bad game and Steve Darcis played so much better... he win this match and we lose. The people said that (it was) the knees, but the knees are the same as in Roland Garros, in Indian Wells, or in Madrid or Rome. And with these knees we won the tournaments, we won Roland Garros. He has made nine finals, (won) seven titles, he won Roland Garros. And then his health go a little down. We come here with not a very good preparation, it was very difficult to play here... without playing a tournament before. And here it’s true, it’s so much (more) difficult now for Rafael to play here because on grass you should play more down (lower to the ground), the movements are difficult at this moment. But what was very bad was our forehand, our serve, our volley, all these things. I’m sure next year we come with very good preparation and we can play so much better than this year.”

http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Tennis---Uncle-Toni-says-Rafas-knees-same-as-they-were-when-he-won-French-Open-and-other-clay-court-titles-articolo10973.html

by N2D2L Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:49 pm

He was actually pretty clear, and also what Nadal said.

I don't believe it though. I can see from my own eyes what's going on.

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