Fed adds Gstaad to schedule

Really odd choice. Federer has added the 250 CLAY tourney and will play it one week before the start of the all important US Hardcourt swing.  His website fans are going nuts because Gstaad is where Federer started his professional carreer....so could this possibly where he ends it?    I don't think so.. but they are worried.

It's strange though- this event does nothing for him to help the preparation for the next phase of the season, doesn't give him many points.     It does indicate that he feels fit, and maybe he just wants the extra match play without travel.............  Thoughts?

When I read that news I thought: he really loves tennis....

It is obvious he needs to regroup and build a bit of match confidence back, and why not in his backyard where he is just a local boy (or at least probably feels like that).

I hope it works for him and helps him in the best possible way.

He is even playing Hamburg. So that should rule out the rumours of retirement. He probably feels he is lacking match practice and form. 

Good choice I think.

But why is he playing on clay now???? really weird.

Tenez wrote:But why is he playing on clay now???? really weird.

 I agree-  2 weeks of clay before the US hardcourts where he is really going to have to make a push.. Toronto is slow, but Cinci is fast.. 
This is the opposite of what Federer has done for years with his schedule and exactly the opposite of what he said when he reduced his schedule this year... He was supposed to have these big training blocks before the big parts of the season.    

It almost seems like panic to me-- like he has to get back on the court.  I'm excited to see some more tennis from him........but I just can't see with the injury issues he's had, the fatigue he shows after tough matches-- where adding two weeks of clay tennis in the middle of his usual practice time is going to help him when the grueling US Open starts.

On his website some of the fans are pointing to statements Fed's dad make in 2004 about how he didn't think Federer would play at Gstaad anymore because they felt it had hurt his hard court preperations the past couple of years.................. now he's back.

I know he wants match play, confidence from losing..but there are drawbacks........... what if he loses too? That's going to shake him even more.

I hate to be pessimistic, I just don't get this.

I don't understand why he's not playing Washington though- that's on HC and would make more sense surely?

Julia Santamaria wrote:I don't understand why he's not playing Washington though- that's on HC and would make more sense surely?

 the only reason I can think is he wouldn't have to uproot his family out of Switzerland so quickly...  but yes, a hardcourt tourney would make more sense.

truffin1 wrote:

Julia Santamaria wrote:I don't understand why he's not playing Washington though- that's on HC and would make more sense surely?

 the only reason I can think is he wouldn't have to uproot his family out of Switzerland so quickly...  but yes, a hardcourt tourney would make more sense.

I think it's clear.....Federer is after "points" more than matches. He needs to stay up there for giving himself a chance being in the top 8...which is not that guaranteed anymore.

Tenez wrote:

truffin1 wrote:

Julia Santamaria wrote:I don't understand why he's not playing Washington though- that's on HC and would make more sense surely?

 the only reason I can think is he wouldn't have to uproot his family out of Switzerland so quickly...  but yes, a hardcourt tourney would make more sense.

I think it's clear.....Federer is after "points" more than matches. He needs to stay up there for giving himself a chance being in the top 8...which is not that guaranteed anymore.

I really don't think that's his thought process.

I think he probably wants some match practice as he left early in Wimbledon, and so entered some tournaments he had previously played where he knows he feels quite comfortable.

I think points are more important. Had he got enough point...he would not bother. He wants to make sure his rankings keeps him afloat cause once you go down the ranking then it;s really tough as yuo have to play better players early. It's a vicious circle.

If it was about matches..then he'd go for HC matches cause that's where he is going to play the next 8 months.

He's entering a 250 though.

Isn't Washington a 500?

yup.

Makes me wonder why he didn't enter 500 point hard court Washington.


Truffins point about location must play a part.


Still, very strange decision (seems so anyway).

Tenez wrote:

truffin1 wrote:

Julia Santamaria wrote:I don't understand why he's not playing Washington though- that's on HC and would make more sense surely?

 the only reason I can think is he wouldn't have to uproot his family out of Switzerland so quickly...  but yes, a hardcourt tourney would make more sense.

I think it's clear.....Federer is after "points" more than matches. He needs to stay up there for giving himself a chance being in the top 8...which is not that guaranteed anymore.

 If it's a points grab - then it goes back to my "panic" comment.  The plan for his reduced schedule this year and what he mentioned many times was to give him long practice blocks so that he would be a "tough out" in the bigger tournaments.. with the thought that the better preparation would lead to deep runs and the points would take care of themselves. Obviously, it's been a flaming disaster because of injury, bad luck, and bad form.   However, my humble opinion is it would be better to stay the course.......... If playing 2 weeks on clay with one week rest before starting the grueling
(esp for a 32 yr old) stretch of Montreal,Cinci, US Open causes even one earlier loss in those tournies,,  he'll lose all the 750 points he could gain in these clay tounies, and those points aren't a guarantee either..     I could see him being fatigued in Cinci and losing in the quarters or semis and there go the points.     It would be better IMO to rent a luxury house of hotel suite in North America, bring his family down for a long stay, and work like crazy on the hardcourts--

Many on is website think the early loss in Wimby opened up a scenario for him to have somewhat of a farewell appearance in a couple of tournaments that meant a lot to him in his early carreer...  That makes some sense as it's certainly not to best prepare for the US Open.

I don't think Federer is planning any retirement soon. The only thing that would bring that about "before his time" ( and I 'd say that's after Rio), would be some really serious injury.
Thank God, that's not the case.

I think he is just trying different ways to stay in the game atm as the planned scenario probably didn't work out as expected.

If he could, he'd probably play forever.

Fed is playing bad irrespective of the surface. So atm he needs some match practice where he can play without pressure and hopefully win some tournaments to gain some confidence. He also may be wanting to try out something new.

The think the problem with older and successful players is that they have been "too watched" through video analysis etc. Its very evident in the way Nadal, Murray and Djokovic and even Delpo read and anticipate Fed's shots. They almost always know where will Fed go. While most of the players of his 2003-2007 days were often left frozen and wrong footed, the newer players simply know better. 

Fed needs to add some innovation to his game.

The thing is Fed was very close to get back into this match v Stak. He must however have noticed that he lacked composure and confidence at times, particularly from his FH which was all over the place apparently in the first 2 sets.

I agree that playing more matches is important but I also think he cares a lot about ranking and doesn't want to slide. He chose clay cause without Nadal he has little to fear on this surface, it's close to home and should be easy points.

If it was about getting matches under his belt he would only play one...not 2 weeks in a row and he woudl play them on hard.

Tenez wrote:The thing is Fed was very close to get back into this match v Stak. He must however have noticed that he lacked composure and confidence at times, particularly from his FH which was all over the place apparently in the first 2 sets.

 If Fed is struggling on grass, then the problem is huge. The match was close but, it never looked like Fed was ever in control. True that Stakh played the best match of his life, but Fed missed many opportunities.

Fed will fall out of top-4 and get #5 after wimbledon.  

Is it true that Ferrer is moving up to number 3 after Wimbledon?

Yup and by a decent margin 

Really strange move...
Looking at how he lost at RG and Wimbledon,its my opinion that Fed will not win another major before he retires,at best he could make 1 or 2 more semi finals,but its likely that he will loose more in the first week of a major then make it to the second week
He is clearly more then a few steps slower...
I think Nadal is also done winning majors 
This Wimbledon has sparked a changing of the guard for the veterans ( including Serena) ,the Fed era is truly over 
Expect the younger generation to start dominating in the next 4-6 majors

I can't see murray and novak being dominated for a while and I still think Nadal can compete at the slams.... feds not sure

Fed booked to play in Hamburg from the 15th of July, as well ( that's a week before Gstaad).
I'm not complaining, it's usually dreary for us tennis junkies post-Wimbledon.

I don;t think we can predict anything regarding Fed's future chances of a slam. It's down to his conditions and form. The talent is still there. If you look at Ferrer, Haas, Verdasco and many other players they can still do well in their early 30s. Sure I don't expect him to reign like in the past but strangely, I find Djoko, Murray and Nadal less impressive than a couple of years ago too so Federer if he had not messed up those many break back points may have had a good chance here...had his fitness been decent.

Look at Sampras...he lost in the first round of WImbledon and went on to win the USO...a couple of month later.

Again I am not saying he will win more slams but I can't rule him out just yet. I'd like to see more of his form.

Tenez wrote:I don;t think we can predict anything regarding Fed's future chances of a slam. It's down to his conditions and form. The talent is still there. If you look at Ferrer, Haas, Verdasco and many other players they can still do well in their early 30s. Sure I don't expect him to reign like in the past but strangely, I find Djoko, Murray and Nadal less impressive than a couple of years ago too so Federer if he had not messed up those many break back points may have had a good chance here...had his fitness been decent.

Look at Sampras...he lost in the first round of WImbledon and went on to win the USO...a couple of month later.

Again I am not saying he will win more slams but I can't rule him out just yet. I'd like to see more of his form.

 While I agree that Fed's chances in the future slams is unpredictable, I can't see how examples of Ferrer, Haas and Verdasco look relevant here. True these guys are doing well, but by thier own standards. They are not slam contenders and they never were. I'm sure even if Fed plays in his current form till he hangs his racquets, he still will manage the success shown by these 3.  

Sampras' example is also not very accurate imo. Before the rise of Fed in the years 1999-2002 there wasn't any clear dominant player, conditions were fast on most surfaces ( US open sure was ) and Sampras' game was so down, he almost had no expectation of winning it. Fed still hasn't given up expecting himself to do win slams. That is both a good and a bad thing.

I think Fed is still capable of winnning anything and I think it's good that he is playing all these tournaments now.

With a bit of confidence and a few matches under his belt (even on clay!), I can easily see him having a great HC season.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:I don;t think we can predict anything regarding Fed's future chances of a slam. It's down to his conditions and form. The talent is still there. If you look at Ferrer, Haas, Verdasco and many other players they can still do well in their early 30s. Sure I don't expect him to reign like in the past but strangely, I find Djoko, Murray and Nadal less impressive than a couple of years ago too so Federer if he had not messed up those many break back points may have had a good chance here...had his fitness been decent.

Look at Sampras...he lost in the first round of WImbledon and went on to win the USO...a couple of month later.

Again I am not saying he will win more slams but I can't rule him out just yet. I'd like to see more of his form.

 While I agree that Fed's chances in the future slams is unpredictable, I can't see how examples of Ferrer, Haas and Verdasco look relevant here. True these guys are doing well, but by thier own standards. They are not slam contenders and they never were. I'm sure even if Fed plays in his current form till he hangs his racquets, he still will manage the success shown by these 3.  

Sampras' example is also not very accurate imo. Before the rise of Fed in the years 1999-2002 there wasn't any clear dominant player, conditions were fast on most surfaces ( US open sure was ) and Sampras' game was so down, he almost had no expectation of winning it. Fed still hasn't given up expecting himself to do win slams. That is both a good and a bad thing.

But I am sure you can see the logique. If a 33yo player can play as well as when 28, surely this is what matters here. The fact Ferrer, Verdasco and Haas are not as good as Fed is irrelevant. The benchmark is themselves. If Fed manages to play as well as when he was 28 (like all the other guys can).....when he was winning slams...then surely he coudl win slams again....or at least be in contention as it's also down to the opposition.

I am always surprised how people write Federer off just after one not so successful season.
Less than a year ago he was number one, Wimbledon champion and less than 8 months ago he nearly beat Novak in O2 final.

I don't know why he didn't play that well against Tsonga in RG or if/what physical problems he may be having.

Regardless of even those problems, the fact that he is hungry and wants to keep his ranking by playing all these smaller tournaments now shows he knows he is playing well.

I really hope his perseverance and belief get rewarded, and I'd like to believe that Fed is bigger than one or two disappointing losses he's had this year,even the one or two he may/may not yet have this year.

noleisthebest wrote:I am always surprised how people write Federer off just after one not so successful season.
Less than a year ago he was number one, Wimbledon champion and less than 8 months ago he nearly beat Novak in O2 final.

 This is true. He almost beat Novak despite being completely exhausted.

But it's what happens after that which is worrying. His constant warm-up t shirt and belt underneath which is simply a worrying sign. Many players have had their career interrupted due to back problems (Leconte, Mecir, Rios to name a few).

This is why there is no way we can say what his future holds. It looks like he is trying to play through his back problems and that might be a good thing. It worked last year at Wimbledon.....but how long can he get away with it?

Despite his superb talent, it can't be easy for Fed to play like he does after all these years having not only to fight his age/health but slower playing conditions and a generation of extremely fit players who have created a new brand of tennis in these conditions.

As for his back, yes, that vest was there in I think both his matches in Wimbledon (mind you, it was a bit on the nippy side at the beginning of first week), it's so hard to discuss it as he lets nothing out of the bag but I am hopeful that he is able to manage it for now, otherwise he wouldn't be increasing his schedule.

I look forward to seeing him in O2, it would be nothing but tragic if he wasn't there in November 

noleisthebest wrote:Despite his superb talent, it can't be easy for Fed to play like he does after all these years having not only to fight his age/health but slower playing conditions and a generation of extremely fit players who have created a new brand of tennis in these conditions.

As for his back, yes, that vest was there in I think both his matches in Wimbledon (mind you, it was a bit on the nippy side at the beginning of first week), it's so hard to discuss it as he lets nothing out of the bag but I am hopeful that he is able to manage it for now, otherwise he wouldn't be increasing his schedule.

I look forward to seeing him in O2, it would be nothing but tragic if he wasn't there in November 

 As I said after Wimbledon 12...I don't expect much from him now...If he were to never win a slam from now I woudl not care much...if he were to win more I'd be delighted. For me his mission is accomplished.

I never expect wins from my favourite players, but am always happy for them when they happen as they definitely help, of course.
For me, all I expect is them to play believing they can win, so Federer wanting to play (as opposed for hiding somewhere feeling sorry for himself spouting rubbish like Nadal did during his 7 months off) is enough.

HawkEye is really good nowadays. They are really using the data very well to explain the challenge those players are facing and how the tennis has changed.

noleisthebest wrote:Despite his superb talent, it can't be easy for Fed to play like he does after all these years having not only to fight his age/health but slower playing conditions and a generation of extremely fit players who have created a new brand of tennis in these conditions.

As for his back, yes, that vest was there in I think both his matches in Wimbledon (mind you, it was a bit on the nippy side at the beginning of first week), it's so hard to discuss it as he lets nothing out of the bag but I am hopeful that he is able to manage it for now, otherwise he wouldn't be increasing his schedule.

I look forward to seeing him in O2, it would be nothing but tragic if he wasn't there in November 

 Do you think Fed is still have back issues and they might be a reason for his poor show in RG and wimbledon? In my opinion it must not be. Else why would he add tournaments to schedule? Why not rest the injured back and get back on tour stronger?

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

 Do you think Fed is still have back issues and they might be a reason for his poor show in RG and wimbledon? In my opinion it must not be. Else why would he add tournaments to schedule? Why not rest the injured back and get back on tour stronger?

 It's very clear to me his back is still an issue....most of the time. Like most back issues, the way to actually improve it is to keep moving and strenghening.

One of the most obvious case was v Simon at teh FO where he played really well....then his game fell apart. I also provided stats to show how bad his serve was at teh beginning of the year....As he said once the problem with his back comes and go...and he cannot quite control it.

Tenez wrote:
One of the most obvious case was v Simon at teh FO where he played really well....then his game fell apart. I also provided stats to show how bad his serve was at teh beginning of the year....As he said once the problem with his back comes and go...and he cannot quite control it.

Yes, back in all its variations of "badness", even the smallest one can really affect a top athlete and his performance. It doesn't have  to be completely debilitating and crawling with pain as a lot of people think or imagine it is, but even the slightest discomfort impairs certain movement as you know it can potentially get worse and more painful, and then it starts playing with your mind, affects concentration and focus, so very tough for a tennis player.

And on top of all that there is the continuing need (now bigger than ever) to remain fit and strong, hours of pounding the treadmill, pushing weights and who knows what else they do these days...

Did I ever mention hula-hoop is great for the back?

So do you think Federer is training on hard courts as we speak- preparing for the Masters and US Open- then go into clay and just let what happens happen-- or does he actually train for the clay, then try to transition to the hard when he arrives in Montreal?

truffin1 wrote:So do you think Federer is training on hard courts as we speak- preparing for the Masters and US Open- then go into clay and just let what happens happen-- or does he actually train for the clay, then try to transition to the hard when he arrives in Montreal?

 If what Tenez said is correct that Fed's motivation is also ATP ranking points in playing Gstaad and Hamburg, then he surely must be training on clay. Those are the most immediate tournaments coming up for him and if he is serious about winning those for points, clay is the obvious choice for practice and training.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

truffin1 wrote:So do you think Federer is training on hard courts as we speak- preparing for the Masters and US Open- then go into clay and just let what happens happen-- or does he actually train for the clay, then try to transition to the hard when he arrives in Montreal?

 If what Tenez said is correct that Fed's motivation is also ATP ranking points in playing Gstaad and Hamburg, then he surely must be training on clay. Those are the most immediate tournaments coming up for him and if he is serious about winning those for points, clay is the obvious choice for practice and training.

 If so though- he's training for 750 pts max at the clay tournies-- and from I understand- those points won't even count until the 500 tourney penalty drops later in the year... vs.. a potential 4000 points between Montreal, Cinci, US Open.. Its a real risk he's taking..   Just going out early in Montreal if he's not prepared is going to wipe out any extra points he got!

I think Fed cares about ATP points cause ultimately he cares for slams. ATP points allows him to stay closer to the top 4....this is where he wants to be. He does not want to have to play 3 physical players in the final stages of slams. Since Canada and Montreal are back to back.....he never quite played them to the end as he wants to save energy for slams where glory and points are.

So in my view he wants to cash in on the smaller tournaments (ATP points), get some confidence back certainly without killing himself. getting 750 points in Halle/Gstaad is almost as good as a TMS....then he can play Montreal or Cincy.

At teh end of the day...he knows what he is doing. Rarely does he make stupid judgements and above all it's pretty much dictated by his health...and only him knows really.

So Tenez, what do you think he must be training on? Clay or HC ?

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:So Tenez, what do you think he must be training on? Clay or HC ?

Why does that matter?
He could be training a bit on clay  now,  and then switch to hard courts....it's not like he is trying to change his FH to a double hander.

Clearly he needs to train on HC but that's why I think he needs points too cause he chooses to play on clay when the clay season is over.

Maybe clay is also tender to his back.

Tenez wrote:Clearly he needs to train on HC but that's why I think he needs points too cause he chooses to play on clay when the clay season is over.

Maybe clay is also tender to his back.

 
Not to go around in circles Tenez, but it still doesn't make sense for this to be about points in order for better seeding at US Open or majors.. According to the charts and discussion on the Federer website- because of the 500 tourney point penalty and when other tournaments drop off-- these two tournaments basically won't even count until later in the year... What they are saying is it will have virtually no affect on this seeding for US Open and barring a miracle sweep of Montreal and Cinci- he's surely going into the US Open 5th or 6th....... 

so..........  why not train like a madman on cincy/ us open type courts and be 100% prepared for those..   then he has plenty of time and also room to add tournies the last part of the season to improve his seeding for WTF and Australian..  This just seems like a panic move that could potentially hamper his US Open campaign... Its is a transition both is speed, feel, and tactics to go from clay to hard...   other than fitness- training on clay right now will not help him at the Open imo.

truffin1 wrote: This just seems like a panic move that could potentially hamper his US Open campaign... Its is a transition both is speed, feel, and tactics to go from clay to hard...   other than fitness- training on clay right now will not help him at the Open imo.

 I think he feels this transition from clay to Hard is not much tough for him and he can handle it well. My reasoning for his 'panic' choice would be that he wants experiments some tweaks in his game either with serving or forehand or whatever. Gastaad/Hamburg are a simple choice, low profile tournaments without many players who can trouble him. He can play and experiments without much pressure of winning..

If Fed plans to play till 2016, then he must innovate in his game. New generation of players have watched him too much and they know a lot of his tricks.

truffin1 wrote:

Tenez wrote:Clearly he needs to train on HC but that's why I think he needs points too cause he chooses to play on clay when the clay season is over.

Maybe clay is also tender to his back.

 
Not to go around in circles Tenez, but it still doesn't make sense for this to be about points in order for better seeding at US Open or majors.. According to the charts and discussion on the Federer website- because of the 500 tourney point penalty and when other tournaments drop off-- these two tournaments basically won't even count until later in the year... What they are saying is it will have virtually no affect on this seeding for US Open and barring a miracle sweep of Montreal and Cinci- he's surely going into the US Open 5th or 6th....... 

so..........  why not train like a madman on cincy/ us open type courts and be 100% prepared for those..   then he has plenty of time and also room to add tournies the last part of the season to improve his seeding for WTF and Australian..  This just seems like a panic move that could potentially hamper his US Open campaign... Its is a transition both is speed, feel, and tactics to go from clay to hard...   other than fitness- training on clay right now will not help him at the Open imo.

 I don't think it's about this USOin particular....but by traing to gain another 750 he increases his chances of a better seeding for the 3 slams after the USO.

If he was to train very hard for Montreal and Cincy he is most likely to arrive tired at the USO where the real points are.....and he like the Masters so he does not want to play too much in between USO and Masters either.

If yuo don't think it's about points what he is doing now on clay?

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

If Fed plans to play till 2016, then he must innovate in his game. New generation of players have watched him too much and they know a lot of his tricks.

 What do you mean by innovate? There is no "tricks" in Fed's game. He simply sees the ball better, strikes it better and when hot he puts the opposition away from the ball.

He has in my views 2 problems he cannot quite solve cause they are simply down to one issue. Fitness.

1 - He cannot handle Nadal's powerful ball. Or let's put it this way,,,,he struggles handling that spinny ball.
2 - He tires versus the top 3 superfit players.

This is nothing new....his only chance to improve is play the same game he has but cut those UEs and increase the winners. Strategy is very simple for Federer...he just has to deliver...and being 100% fit would help a lot.

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

If Fed plans to play till 2016, then he must innovate in his game. New generation of players have watched him too much and they know a lot of his tricks.

 What do you mean by innovate? There is no "tricks" in Fed's game. He simply sees the ball better, strikes it better and when hot he puts the opposition away from the ball.

He has in my views 2 problems he cannot quite solve cause they are simply down to one issue. Fitness.

1 - He cannot handle Nadal's powerful ball. Or let's put it this way,,,,he struggles handling that spinny ball.
2 - He tires versus the top 3 superfit players.

This is nothing new....his only chance to improve is play the same game he has but cut those UEs and increase the winners. Strategy is very simple for Federer...he just has to deliver...and being 100% fit would help a lot.

 By tricks I mean his shot selection, his direction of the server etc. Apologies if 'tricks' sounded a tad demeaning. Example: Fed's serve was once very difficult to read. His ball toss was so perfect that it was almost impossible to guess which direction would he go i.e. out wide with a low angle or down the T. But I see that the newer players simple read it better, they know better which way Fed would go. Djokovic guessed it right in USopen 2011 final saving the match point. That was just one occasion but I just see that they are better at guess where will he be aiming his serve. That allows them to return better..

Fed needs to build some disguise. Get a new kind of serve if possible. Add some to the forehand and backhand.

 One just can't keep winning playing the 'same game' forever. It applies to everyone.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

 By tricks I mean his shot selection, his direction of the server etc. Apologies if 'tricks' sounded a tad demeaning. Example: Fed's serve was once very difficult to read. His ball toss was so perfect that it was almost impossible to guess which direction would he go i.e. out wide with a low angle or down the T. But I see that the newer players simple read it better, they know better which way Fed would go. Djokovic guessed it right in USopen 2011 final saving the match point. That was just one occasion but I just see that they are better at guess where will he be aiming his serve. That allows them to return better..

Fed needs to build some disguise. Get a new kind of serve if possible. Add some to the forehand and backhand.

 One just can't keep winning playing the 'same game' forever. It applies to everyone.

  No need to apologise to speak your mind here.

But Djoko only guessed it right on MP down! So clearly he did not guess it right the whole match. It's simply a lucky shot like Djoko was not so lucky last year at Wimby 12 as he still coudl not read it.

Fed disguised very well 6 months ago in WTF final...what he lacked again was fitness enabling to sustain that level which allowed him to rule the first few games.

There is no easy solution I am afraid.....You know what I think....it's all about fitness. Like we saw yesterday, it's always the fittest who wins the slam nowadays...the shot making ability becomes less and less relevant.