The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Looking at Murray's face in 2010...there is an obvious facial change in the last 5 years. His facial jaws really squaring up, which is usually typical of steroids use.

Jaw aside, look at his FH...no muscling at all, Fed was toying with him with ease...

noleisthebest wrote:Jaw aside, look at his FH...no muscling at all, Fed was toying with him with ease...

He still does nowadays!

And yet remember than in 2007 we notcied how much he bulked up compared to 2006!

Tenez wrote:
He still does nowadays!

He always will.

Tenez wrote:
And yet remember than in 2007 we notcied how much he bulked up compared to 2006!

He did. The famous 6kg of muscle happened in the off-season of 2008-9 from memory. The power of sushi!

Which goes to show how long it took him to translate practice into match playing.
Was it 2012?
I remember watching him pound the ball against a tired Fed in the Olympic final on that mudpit grass court.

Lendl managed to take Murray's FH out of his pushing comfort zone temporarily, physical trainers kept building muscle & "fitness" until his back collapsed.

Then, Mauresmo tried to pick up the pieces and draw Murray out of his defensive shell again making him play all-court tennis and rehabilitate his competing identity.
She did a good job.

Now...he is in this hybrid limbo where he's got the muscle, he's got the fitness which is enough for top 5.

But!

Too heavy to outlast Nole.
Not enough talent to outplay Fed.

2008. No blood tests at all.....

luvsports! wrote:2008. No blood tests at all.....

One of Nadal's best years.

Quite telling about the Spanish athletic Federation.....and others I am sure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34873287

Andy and Becker are having a go at each other on doping!


Interesting that Murray feels some are doping out there..cause of course he is not. he probably thinks he is using something better than the rest of the field.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36073220/boris-becker-andy-murray-is-out-of-order-for-voicing-doping-suspicions

I am beginning to like Becker more and more. 
He is a tough cookie and a wise old owl.

Murray will never mature as a man.

Big square-jawed moaner.

The whole doling topic is a non-topic.

They are all clean until proven otherwise.

But what MUST be addressed is keeping time between the points.

Otherwise, we may as well flush tennis down the toilet with all other sports as it will become completely unwatchable.

Is it the Vatican that is supporting Nadal so badly that he feels untouchable?

How can you like him more? This is classic Omerta.
Boris is telling him to shut up: "Totally out of order".

By that logic he was totally out of order for saying Muster's "miracle" comeback in their 1996 match was questionable.

I don't think Murray is clean but Becker is a joke here.

And this sums it up in regards to Nole taking a drugs test at 7am in Melbourne:

"'how dare you.' But those are the rules."

Becker is a professional.

Entire professional sport is up to its eyeballs in doping.

That will NEVER change.

Murray on the other hand has reached new heights of disgustedness.

Not only is he doped, but has the cheek to try and make look himself clean on the account of accusing his colleagues.

They say you get the face you deserve at 50.

I bet there won't be many mirrors around his house then.

Becker is a twat perpetuating the code of silence.

noleisthebest wrote:Becker is a professional.

Entire professional sport is up to its eyeballs in doping.

That will NEVER change.

Murray on the other hand has reached new heights of disgustedness.

Not only is he doped, but has the cheek to try and make look himself clean on the account of accusing his colleagues.

They say you get the face you deserve at 50.

I bet there won't be many mirrors around his house then.

But What I don;t understand is that not so long ago you were accusing Federer of not talking up about it all!

I must say I find Murray terribly frustrating to comment on other doping when he is actually one of the biggest suspect. he went for both muscles (steroid) and blood doping and that happened to be a bad strategy though frankly I think thinner arms will certainly have made him even worse (as more risky, error prone shots).

No-one on tour is as big as him and moves as much. His match v Simon in that DC match last year was the best proof of his doping and as he says himself in teh Mail on Sunday interview "he did not go away"!!! He made all teh running, yet it was simon who ran out of gas!

Murray talking like proves to me that is stuff out there which can simply not be detected.

BTW LS, do you still think Nadal is off drug still?

Ha dunno Tenez. I still feel he has dropped off not just the game has passed him by.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Becker is a professional.
Entire professional sport is up to its eyeballs in doping.
That will NEVER change.
Murray on the other hand has reached new heights of disgustedness.
Not only is he doped, but has the cheek to try and make look himself clean on the account of accusing his colleagues.
They say you get the face you deserve at 50.
I bet there won't be many mirrors around his house then.

But What I don;t understand is that not so long ago you were accusing Federer of not talking up about it all!
I must say I find Murray terribly frustrating to comment on other doping when he is actually one of the biggest suspect. he went for both muscles (steroid) and blood doping and that happened to be a bad strategy though frankly I think thinner arms will certainly have made him even worse (as more risky, error prone shots).
No-one on tour is as big as him and moves as much. His match v Simon in that DC match last year was the best proof of his doping and as he says himself in teh Mail on Sunday interview "he did not go away"!!! He made all teh running, yet it was simon who ran out of gas!

I have always despised Federer's chumminess with Nadal.

It went beyond PR duties.
At the same time he knew what Nadal was doing. All of it.

And then, he had the opposite treatment for Nole. He even told him to "get fitter" or not bother playing.

They are heavy words.

You brush it all under the carpet and don't comment on it.

Of the two of us you have turned out a bigger "fan".

A bigger fan of who?

I am a big "fan" of federer, no doubt, essentially because he has an unearthly game!, the rest I don't really care except that I see his balance approach to the game reflected in his life to some extend. But it is not visceral like you when it comes to Djoko. You cannot even bear watching him play, win or lose, suffer under the heat, etc... and I sense, though i might be wrong, that you take personally everything we say about him.

Aren't you aware of this?

Tenez wrote:A bigger fan of who?

I am a big "fan" of federer, no doubt, essentially because he has an unearthly game!, the rest I don't really care except that I see his balance approach to the game reflected in his life to some extend. But it is not visceral like you when it comes to Djoko. You cannot even bear watching him play, win or lose, suffer under the heat, etc... and I sense, though i might be wrong, that you take personally everything we say about him.

Aren't you aware of this?

See?

Again you ignore the meaningful part of my post and turn it personal.

As for the "balanced approach that transfers from game to life", I see a facade, and you don't.

I am outspoken and open, noone can accuse me of beating about the bush.

Do you really think it bothers me what anyone here or elsewhere thinks about Nole?

What does upset me is to hear evil speak out of people against anyone.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:A bigger fan of who?

I am a big "fan" of federer, no doubt, essentially because he has an unearthly game!, the rest I don't really care except that I see his balance approach to the game reflected in his life to some extend. But it is not visceral like you when it comes to Djoko. You cannot even bear watching him play, win or lose, suffer under the heat, etc... and I sense, though i might be wrong, that you take personally everything we say about him.

Aren't you aware of this?

See?

Again you ignore the meaningful part of my post and turn it personal.

As for the "balanced approach that transfers from game to life", I see a facade, and you don't.

I am outspoken and open, noone can accuse me of beating about the bush.

Do you really think it bothers me what anyone here or elsewhere thinks about Nole?

What does upset me is to hear evil speak out of people against anyone.

But you dislike of Fed is essentially based on his initial dislike of Nole. Am I wrong?

Why don't you humour me and tell me how someone balanced like you and not visceral like me sees the whole incident in Australia 2009?

And all chumminess with Nadal.

What incident in AO09?

noleisthebest wrote:Why don't you humour me and tell me how someone balanced like you and not visceral like me sees the whole incident in Australia 2009?

And all chumminess with Nadal.

You sound like Haddie Nuff now!

This 09 incident
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S93YvQiCpE

luvsports! wrote:This 09 incident
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S93YvQiCpE

1. Didn't Djokovic retire in 2008 MC against Fed with a soar throat?
2. Didn't Djokovic retired against Roddick in Aus 2009 QF just when he was losing the match?

Fed said what it appeared to him. 

Djokovic  may have matured and improved his mentality, but it doesn't change what he did in the past. 

And I see you are carrying it too far even now.

I personally had no problem with Djoko retiring but I think what Federer says was appropriate at the time. Roddick made a very funny post match interview of it too.

However I think Djoko retirement on that occasion was probably to upset the TD for having made him play so late the previous round....and allowing Roddick to have his way regarding the scheduling.

It's old story anyway.

What's strange is how Djoko turned from being an asthmatic with breathing problem into a roadrunner. But when I say "strange", we all know here how that works.

I must say I immensely enjoyed Murray's comments. Of course he is branded as a sore loser and hypocrite now which he probably is. It takes one to know one. That doesn't change that he is the first high profile player in ages to call out other players at the top of game. His accusations can even be narrowed down to 2 specific suspects. Who else has played 6 hr finals shortly after a very long physical match? What's more - Murray had mentioned the questionable match, the AO 12 final before, also implying nefarious activities. Paraphrasing he said something like he couldn't walk for a few days after the match, he has no idea how Djok played another gruelling 5-setter.

I enjoyed Becker's and Djokovic's comments even more, because they showed how Murray has hit the mark with his comments. They were so ridiculous and over the top, nobody with any ounce of intelligence can take them seriously and what's more - they point at themselves as a guilty party by being so defensive. Tennis is a clean sport, nothing to see there? Yeah right, and that's a few weeks after match fixing scandals and the Sharapova disaster. You can't make this stuff up. Hilarious. 

And Becker crowned it all off with his stupid claim that he knows 100%, no less!, that Rafa, Roger and Andy are clean. Does he observe them 24/7 or how does he know? The hyperbole must make up for the mark being hit dead-on. He doesn't outright say that Djok is clean as well, but he hopes to imply that saying he was tested, yes, not once - twice! during the AO. Unfortunately for him, interested people know now that testing doesn't guarantee 

Had he said nothing, the Djok camp would have looked a little more confident in the matter. Looking forward to the comments from the other suspected camp.

Good summary AL.

The funny thing is I did not read anything from the ATP site....as if no-one said anything. A typical case of heads burried in the sand.

I am still gutted it's someone like Murray who voices it out! Probably the most guilty of them all.

Tenez wrote:I personally had no problem with Djoko retiring but I think what Federer says was appropriate at the time. Roddick made a very funny post match interview of it too.

However I think Djoko retirement on that occasion was probably to upset the TD for having made him play so late the previous round....and allowing Roddick to have his way regarding the scheduling.

It's old story anyway.

What's strange is how Djoko turned from being an asthmatic with breathing problem into a roadrunner. But when I say "strange", we all know here how that works.  

I am afraid it's not an old story however much you try to brush it under the carpet.

I will keep bringing it up every time you complain about Nole's fitness.

These are the words Federer said after Nole's retirement in AO 2009:

"I'm almost in favor of saying, you know what, if you're not fit enough, just get out of here."

http://espn.go.com/sports/tennis/aus09/news/story?id=3863682

What rudness and unprecedented arrogance!

Who does he think he think he is to say something like that to his younger colleague?

Just because he beat him there in straight sets in 2008...

Instead of shutting up and be glad Nole retired and opened him the path to the final, having to play his favourite bunny Roddick in the SF, he just could not contain himself, could he?

Looking back, Federer deserved all he got...sucking up to Nadal at every opportunity.

It really was poetic justice he didn't even show up in WTF 2014 final.

Federer is a fantastic tennis player. I am happy to go with your "Mozart" tag, too. But unfortunately nothing more.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

luvsports! wrote:This 09 incident
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S93YvQiCpE

1. Didn't Djokovic retire in 2008 MC against Fed with a soar throat?
2. Didn't Djokovic retired against Roddick in Aus 2009 QF just when he was losing the match?

Fed said what it appeared to him. 

Djokovic  may have matured and improved his mentality, but it doesn't change what he did in the past. 

And I see you are carrying it too far even now.

He did, that was the official excuse.

The real reason was that Federer told his parents to be quiet.



He was too emotional at the time and Becker helped him a lot in that area.

Langsam!

noleisthebest wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

luvsports! wrote:This 09 incident
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S93YvQiCpE

1. Didn't Djokovic retire in 2008 MC against Fed with a soar throat?
2. Didn't Djokovic retired against Roddick in Aus 2009 QF just when he was losing the match?
Fed said what it appeared to him. 
Djokovic  may have matured and improved his mentality, but it doesn't change what he did in the past. 
And I see you are carrying it too far even now.

He did, that was the official excuse.
The real reason was that Federer told his parents to be quiet.

He was too emotional at the time and Becker helped him a lot in that area.
Langsam!

Stan did the same (retired) when Kyrgios insulted his girlfriend.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/11800167/Nick-Kyrgios-sparks-fury-by-sledging-Stan-Wawrinka-over-his-girlfriend.html

noleisthebest wrote:
I am afraid it's not an old story however much you try to brush it under the carpet.

I will keep bringing it up every time you complain about Nole's fitness.

These are the words Federer said after Nole's retirement in AO 2009:

"I'm almost in favor of saying, you know what, if you're not fit enough, just get out of here."

http://espn.go.com/sports/tennis/aus09/news/story?id=3863682

What rudness and unprecedented arrogance!

Who does he think he think he is to say something like that to his younger colleague?

Just because he beat him there in straight sets in 2008...

Instead of shutting up and be glad Nole retired and opened him the path to the final, having to play his favourite bunny Roddick in the SF, he just could not contain himself, could he?

Looking back, Federer deserved all he got...sucking up to Nadal at every opportunity.

It really was poetic justice he didn't even show up in WTF 2014 final.

Federer is a fantastic tennis player. I am happy to go with your "Mozart" tag, too. But unfortunately nothing more.

It might still be fresh in your memory but it is old story for us all, included the concerned. At the end of the day Djoko is to blame to have allowed for that kind of comments. federer was not the only one commenting on it. Federer lost many matches not being 100% but he finishes them and doesn't talk much about it.

noleisthebest wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/11800167/Nick-Kyrgios-sparks-fury-by-sledging-Stan-Wawrinka-over-his-girlfriend.html

You cannot compare federer rightly asking Djko's parent to shut up with Kyrgios behaviour.

So yeah, Djoko is the new frankeinstein of tennis. Asthma helped by a team of doctors, nose op, eyes op, egg chamber, and Becker brain transplant. What a champ!

His strength to me is his will .....everything else is average or acquired (thanks to his will).

Nothing wrong with that but that is what makes him an unpopular player.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
I am afraid it's not an old story however much you try to brush it under the carpet.

I will keep bringing it up every time you complain about Nole's fitness.

These are the words Federer said after Nole's retirement in AO 2009:

"I'm almost in favor of saying, you know what, if you're not fit enough, just get out of here."

http://espn.go.com/sports/tennis/aus09/news/story?id=3863682

What rudness and unprecedented arrogance!

Who does he think he think he is to say something like that to his younger colleague?

Just because he beat him there in straight sets in 2008...

Instead of shutting up and be glad Nole retired and opened him the path to the final, having to play his favourite bunny Roddick in the SF, he just could not contain himself, could he?

Looking back, Federer deserved all he got...sucking up to Nadal at every opportunity.

It really was poetic justice he didn't even show up in WTF 2014 final.

Federer is a fantastic tennis player. I am happy to go with your "Mozart" tag, too. But unfortunately nothing more.

It might still be fresh in your memory but it is old story for us all, included the concerned. At the end of the day Djoko is to blame to have allowed for that kind of comments. federer was not the only one commenting on it.  Federer lost many matches not being 100% but he finishes them and doesn't talk much about it.

Wow, so "all" 5 people here over me means you are right.

Federer was totally out of order with his comments. It may have happened a while ago but it's a very relevant incident.

Just like you like to pull out Nadal-Federer first match from 2004 when it suits your argument.

Bottom line is - Federer has shown his ugly, arrogant face there.

Pride comes before the fall.

Big fat who cares guys

Why can't weeee be friends? Why can't weee be friends?

Crumbs. Play me off Jonny! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpEVovCq2VI

@Nitb So you really think there was nothing at all wrong with Djokovic's behaviour during that DC tie in the match vs. young Wawrinka? 

He took tactical MTO vs. a less than mentally stable opponent who is very prone to emotional reactions as you noted yourself above about his Kyrgios match last year. Djokovic just about egded that DC match after being down 1-2 in sets. With all the hopes pinned on him as the saviour of Serbia (not to mention his family) sent by God, surely he would feel pressured to use every means available to him.

I'm pretty sure, what you'd have to say about such an incident, if the culprit was called Rafael Nadal.

Autumnleaf wrote:@Nitb So you really think there was nothing at all wrong with Djokovic's behaviour during that DC tie in the match vs. young Wawrinka? 

He took tactical MTO vs. a less than mentally stable opponent who is very prone to emotional reactions as you noted yourself above about his Kyrgios match last year. Djokovic just about egded that DC match after being down 1-2 in sets. With all the hopes pinned on him as the saviour of Serbia (not to mention his family) sent by God, surely he would feel pressured to use every means available to him.

I'm pretty sure, what you'd have to say about such an incident, if the culprit was called Rafael Nadal.

Don't you feel stupid with this multiple ID charade?
I thought you were busy...

All the best.

noleisthebest wrote:Don't you feel stupid with this multiple ID charade?
I thought you were busy...

All the best.

Multiple ID? What are you talking about? This is my only account on this forum as an IP check can confirm. 

I see you dodged the question. I guess that's an answer too. Thanks.

Nitb has a different yardstick for Djokovic. Its so clear.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Nitb has a different yardstick for Djokovic. Its so clear.

It's one thing to be biased - we can't help ourselves here, there's no way to be objective where human beings are concerned. 

It's another thing entirely to refuse to acknowledge clear bias and to not take a look at the other side of an argument.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36166128

What a surprised! He must have Russian ancestors.....for sure!

He tested positive for banned substance terbutaline and a team doctor failed to apply for a therapeutic use exemption (TUE), the Australian team said.
=======================================
That's so funny. A team doctor can help you cheat so that you are not a cheat.

Our (new) world at its best!

Wooww

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36527895

Maybe this case is not over yet!

Again, typically when the athletes have retired, no business or sponsors can really suffer, the dopers who have raised all the money for their sponsors are then handed in to justice and other vultures to extract more money from them.

There shoudl be a law that dispossesses the sponsors of the gain they made on teh back of dopers. Then they woudl be more careful on who they sponsor.

Tenez wrote:Wooww

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36527895

Maybe this case is not over yet!

I love your enthusiasm!

Tenez wrote:

Again, typically when the athletes have retired, no business or sponsors can really suffer, the dopers who have raised all the money for their sponsors are then handed in to justice and other vultures to extract more money from them.

There shoudl be a law that dispossesses the sponsors of the gain they made on teh back of dopers. Then they woudl be more careful on who they sponsor.

I can just imagine those WADA/ITF stat&plan presentations/meetings....I wish I could be at one of them and just say it as it is.
I have found it really is worth spelling truth out to people even if nothing changes.

The purpose of truth is to stir consciences, after all.

That was my new year's resolution this year...to say what I think more often.

It has been so liberating, and I am still alive!

I share your concerns nitb. WADA Itf are not to be trusted

Agree, until they catch Djoko, I don't trust them either 

I'm really skeptical about the blood bag saga...are they really going name and shame all the athletes in the fuentes scandal?
i get the feeling they will most likely just name and shame a few to make it look like they are doing the right thing but still protect the high profile athletes 
i seriously hope that if that happens that fuentes will step up and speak out

What is amazing is that they are banning all Russian Athletes from participating in RIO. Which is really bad considering there are probably some clean ones and that all in all they are not worse than anywhere else....as this blood bag saga proves.

It is simply a political war. We said it before and it is clearly confirmed here again.

It is of the same nature of the