The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

luvsports! wrote:im 10 3/4 stone and 6ft, hardly a stick insect.
work comes first in final year at uni

good luck with your final year....I've been trying to forget mine all these years and it still comes back to haunt me at least couple of times a year in the form of a nightmare where I still have one more exam to pass...it's awful!
And because I've dreamt about it so many times I now in my dreams tell myself that this is just a dream, but it still manages to transform itself into the same thing but different kind of scenario....

thanks bud this xmas wont be one to remember.

sorry to hear that, ever thought about doing another?

Q: Federer and Murray have asked for more blood tests at the beginning of the year. Are they really needed?

TN: I ask for nothing more than that the directors do what they think is best. I am serene and, knowing that Rafa is totally clean, I don't believe it's possible that others dope. I can't conceive of someone deciding to cheat on purpose. If the ATP thinks that more blood tests are necessary, they can go ahead and do them. I repeat: I can't conceive of the idea of somebody intentionally doping.

Q: But there have been proven cases.

TN: In tennis?

Q: Mariano Puerta, for instance.

TN: Yes. Puerta could have prejudiced us, the example is perfect. I don't remember, though, that there were any other subsequent cases among people that play at a mid to high level. There are many controls every year of all the players on the circuit. Doping is complicated.

=======================
Isn't Toni insulting our intelligence? I hate this guy. Typical of this new types of power, big headed people thinking the bigger the lie the more we, credulous people, will swallow it it whole.

Toni has always struck me as someone very shifty, just like his nephew, so no surprises there.

luvsports! wrote:this is a must watch !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxQI2geiskk

My questionbis this:
if what this guy says is true, then is it possible to test all players and see who's doping and who is not.
Is there such a test blood/urine available at the moment that can detect the latest doping methods?
For example, could you jut test all players before a tournament and find out who's been doping?

If they really are ALL doping, what's the point of watching the circus of cheats and liars?

They certainly coudl do more....but as mentioned many times they do not want to catch them, they just want to show they are doing their best to catch them.

I don't know....
I am still kidding myself that if someone somewhere blows the whistle hard things may shake up...and the majority would prefer something to be done about it.
What's this Armstrong farce then all about?
Even last night at SPOTY every award recipient thanked teir TEAM of people behind them...
The way greed rules, it will probably take a considerable number of athletes across all sports to start dropping like flies before somebody decides to stop drugs in sport.
Just terrible!

its depressing, something i don't want to hear and im still hoping someone will prove me wrong, but until then i just don't have faith.

noleisthebest wrote:I don't know....
I am still kidding myself that if someone somewhere blows the whistle hard things may shake up...and the majority would prefer something to be done about it.
What's this Armstrong farce then all about?
Even last night at SPOTY every award recipient thanked teir TEAM of people behind them...
The way greed rules, it will probably take a considerable number of athletes across all sports to start dropping like flies before somebody decides to stop drugs in sport.
Just terrible!

I would say 95% dope so no-one is going to blow the whistle cause the 5% have no tangible proof the other 95% dope and that it woudl arm the sport including the 5%.

LA was simply chased down due to the proportion of his and his team doping. Obvisously that created huge tension betwwen him and his peers and that is what really got him.

I like your hopeful 5%

Yes...you have guys like Llodra which could benefit from doping but whose style of quick rallies probably makes the risk of being caught not worth taking. And yes Federer doesn;t look like someone who dopes nor does his stamina show obvious signs. As far as I know he is ranked over 100 in terms of best of 5 wins...pretty strange for someone who is so strong mentally that he has the best record on TBs ever.

But again I coudl be wrong on this occasion...but not when it comes to the other usual suspects.

I tried to do a quick google search, but all 5 set records date back to 2009 on various blogs.
This is where someone like LF or SB would excel at compiling a chart, could be an interesting topic for discussion

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-5th-Set-Record-Career-List.aspx



Federer actually improved recently but yiou can see Djoko and Nadal "excellent" record in 5 setters.

Tenez wrote:http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-5th-Set-Record-Career-List.aspx



Federer actually improved recently but yiou can see Djoko and Nadal "excellent" record in 5 setters.

Thanks T. Fed all the way down at 94, that is absolutely amazing!!!
Would be interesting to see all those losses, I can remember some but not all. An absolutely fascinating chart!

Yes....and this is what I have been telling you for years....Fed is not particularly known for his stamina. His advantage however is that he makes his opponent run a lot so he can get some good wins versus the more physical players.

Tenez wrote:Yes....and this is what I have been telling you for years....Fed is not particularly known for his stamina. His advantage however is that he makes his opponent run a lot so he can get some good wins versus the more physical players.

I've been thinking about the way he moves vs the way Nole moves on the court. They are both excellent and both rely heavily on that movement but for different reasons as their game is different.

It was very interesting to see them play in O2 both live and on match replay, I may actually watch it again just to observe movement exclusively.

I like to assess Nole's game when he plays Fed as he doesn't have to play exasperating tennis like against Nadal or Murray.

more stuff from this crazy aussie!

again interesting stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQNPTsGHjEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DN3a1ES6QE

luvsports! wrote:more stuff from this crazy aussie!

again interesting stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQNPTsGHjEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DN3a1ES6QE

Very interesting and fun to watch LS, consider yourself an official OTF HotSauce Source !

I was impressed I was the 8th viewer, so you must be his close fan, it's not you , is it

Anyway, it's good that he sees a solution, and kind of demystifies the whole taboo and fear that surrounds it. People are scared to even talk about it on blogs for some irrational fear of being busted or stg. How completely perverse is that!!!

Also found his timing interesting, ok, it's post LA "discovery" but could be really food for when Fuentes case opens in January.
If you are one of his subscribers, maybe you could tip him towards that direction, he obviously has first-hand epexerience so would be great to have another clip on that topic before, during and after the case.

We've got tohave the Crazy Aussie on OTF, organise an interview with him LS, presto!!!! Could look impressive on your future CV

he has two channels. This one is a new one with lots of old stuff that happened post LA so a good few months back.

i dont subscribe! :P

haha that may be hard bud, but cheers

luvsports! wrote:he has two channels. This one is a new one with lots of old stuff that happened post LA so a good few months back.

i dont subscribe! :P

haha that may be hard bud, but cheers

Oh ye of little faith!
I'll try to do it if you don't want to... see what happens!
Sounds like an interesting adventure already!

haha do it and gd luck to ya!!

Yes, very good links LS. Problem is what kind of credibility can we give to this guy? Everything he says is actually common sense and difficult to argue against...but on the other side you have "fans" who want to believe their heros' stories supported by the sports organisations which business depends very much on those fans. That is the reality and in all this mess the advised spectator tries to distinguish talent and skills in this ridiculous display of absurd fitness.

SO when I watch Federer or Messi, on the hot sauce or not, I am not bothered, I know those guys have enough talent to be the best if the sport was clean.

Something I cannot say of players who rely extensively on that fitness. When you can run like Nadal all day...or worse outrun him....then you know. If you can beat those top players by keeping rallies 2 or 3 shots short then you have talent.

Its as simple as that.

I am one of those people categorized by Durian rider as 'naive' .

I think it is natural to want to believe in your sporting heroes and naturally i am crestfallen when you realise just how human they are.

If federer was on drugs i would cry, no joke!

I wish he would say how he knows this, i think he used to cycle at a high level and didn't take drugs but how does he know everyone at the top level is on it?

He makes sense but i kind of wish he was wrong

luvsports! wrote:I think it is natural to want to believe in your sporting heroes and naturally i am crestfallen when you realise just how human they are.

If federer was on drugs i would cry, no joke!

It's natural to believe so until you grow older...wiser. But as he says it's not only sport...it's every vertical market/industry nowadays that is cheating, politicians, bankers and businesses are constantly lying and manipulating the truth. I am sure there are a lot of honest people out there too but like in sport, the higher you are in the pyramid the more likely you are a fraud. The honest people are usually nowhere the top....They are a bot like Llodra....down the bottom doing an amazing job to the connoisseur but without fame.

It's a very special world we live in. It's always been like that but as we are more and more aware of it, the more cunning are the methods to cheat us.

Tenez have you ever considered you might be slightly paranoid?

Tenez wrote:

It's a very special world we live in. It's always been like that but as we are more and more aware of it, the more cunning are the methods to cheat us.

If we go back to that BBC documentary - The Race That Shocked The World, and remember Da Silva's words at the end, we can see that they are only cheating themselves. A fraud knows he's a fraud, and although they may get away with it, I wouldn't swap with their fame and all that it brings.

Amritia3ee wrote:Tenez have you ever considered you might be slightly paranoid?

I wish I was as credulous as you and keep on dreaming like when in my teens.....though I am actually quite happy nowadays to understand the fight ahead of us. I can see the real beauty of this world...and the fake one. Looks like you cannot quite distinguish it.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

It's a very special world we live in. It's always been like that but as we are more and more aware of it, the more cunning are the methods to cheat us.

If we go back to that BBC documentary - The Race That Shocked The World, and remember Da Silva's words at the end, we can see that they are only cheating themselves. A fraud knows he's a fraud, and although they may get away with it, I wouldn't swap with their fame and all that it brings.

Yes if you can "afford" it. For most it's a question of survival.

Tenez, do you think the world will end on December 21st?

Tenez wrote:

Yes if you can "afford" it. For most it's a question of survival.

I am not sure I am following you here. If you are talking about the poor countries and people trying to get out of poverty by cheating in sport, they don't have to do it. They can have poor lives with clean conscience.

amrit, not sure these questions are going to get you anywhere

Amritia3ee wrote:Tenez, do you think the world will end on December 21st?

Here's a counter-question for you:

Will your world end if Nadal's name turns up on Fuente's list next month?

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

Yes if you can "afford" it. For most it's a question of survival.

I am not sure I am following you here. If you are talking about the poor countries and people trying to get out of poverty by cheating in sport, they don't have to do it. They can have poor lives with clean conscience.

Like what durianrider said 'its a cutthroat world, matter of survival!". If you don't have the funds you will do anything to earn and provide for your family. With these million dollar prizes he is saying athletes will do anything and everything possible to ensure they get that prize.

Bradley Mcgee (former cyclist) made a great point on doping today.

"we have to pretend even, that the sport is still dirty and keep fighting even if 100% of riders are clean today there is still the possibility of it coming back like a virus". This is the opposite stance of the viewing public imo

noleisthebest wrote:

Amritia3ee wrote:Tenez, do you think the world will end on December 21st?

Here's a counter-question for you:

Will your world end if Nadal's name turns up on Fuente's list next month?

The apostrophe goes after the s.
It's Dr. Fuentes, not Dr.Fuente

I don't think his name will be on the list at all.

luvsports! wrote:
Like what durianrider said 'its a cutthroat world, matter of survival!". If you don't have the funds you will do anything to earn and provide for your family. With these million dollar prizes he is saying athletes will do anything and everything possible to ensure they get that prize.

Well LS, if I came from the cushy western background you could maybe sell me that story, but I'm not. I know what poverty is and what working for $5 a month is. I did it myself. And survived with a clean conscience. Not many around me did it, but I proved it was possible.

good on ya, but you get what durianrider is getting at no?

[quote] The apostrophe goes after the s.
It's Dr. Fuentes, not Dr.Fuente

[quote]

haha look out, the grammar police are on our tail!

btw amrit please answer this without responding with another question as I have asked you this before and you responded with a question.

If nadal was on that list how would you feel?

If federer was on that list i would cry, said that before!

Federer won't be on the Fuentes list LS.
If Federer is doping there would be a undercover operation in Switzerland. He wouldnt use a Spanish doctor.
Both of Rogers parents worked in the pharmaceutical industry.
We have steroids to help hand-eye coordination too:
http://m.voices.yahoo.com/steroids-improve-hand-eye-coordination-ability-to-5271453.html

Amritia3ee wrote:Federer won't be on the Fuentes list LS.
If Federer is doping there would be a undercover operation in Switzerland. He wouldnt use a Spanish doctor.
Both of Rogers parents worked in the pharmaceutical industry.
We have steroids to help hand-eye coordination too:
http://m.voices.yahoo.com/steroids-improve-hand-eye-coordination-ability-to-5271453.html

Errani is not Spanish, but she used a Spanish doctor. Their excellence and expertise must precede them for some reason.

you didn't answer the question again!

please do!

noleisthebest wrote:

Amritia3ee wrote:Tenez, do you think the world will end on December 21st?

Here's a counter-question for you:

Will your world end if Nadal's name turns up on Fuente's list next month?

LOL! That would be Amri's Armagedon!

noleisthebest wrote:

Amritia3ee wrote:Federer won't be on the Fuentes list LS.
If Federer is doping there would be a undercover operation in Switzerland. He wouldnt use a Spanish doctor.
Both of Rogers parents worked in the pharmaceutical industry.
We have steroids to help hand-eye coordination too:
http://m.voices.yahoo.com/steroids-improve-hand-eye-coordination-ability-to-5271453.html

Errani is not Spanish, but she used a Spanish doctor. Their excellence and expertise must precede them for some reason.

Good point, but the Swiss are so efficient. No one would be able to track them.

also how do you know that? italy was a hotbed for italian doping doctors who catered to athletes around the world.
tenerife is supposed to be a notorious place to acquire the "hot sauce".

luvsports! wrote:you didn't answer the question again!

please do!

I wouldn't mind.

I don't really see myself as a Nadal 'fan'; I consider myself to be quite unbiased.

thank you for answering a question.

I find that interesting and maybe a tad contradictory. On many occasions you have strongly defended nadal, just as any fan would. This isn't a bad thing at all but i just think that is not inline with past comments you have made.

You wouldn't mind that your favourite player was a cheat and perhaps this played a part in him winning his slams???

I was gutted when contador was found out 2 be a cheat. Now I think I have wised up a bit regarding cycling and look at him with contempt now.

Not even the slightest impact/?? wow

Amritia3ee wrote:Federer won't be on the Fuentes list LS.
If Federer is doping there would be a undercover operation in Switzerland. He wouldnt use a Spanish doctor.
Both of Rogers parents worked in the pharmaceutical industry.
We have steroids to help hand-eye coordination too:
[url=http://m.voices.yahoo.com/steroids-improve-hand-eye-coordination-ability-to-5271453.html

http://m.voices.yahoo.com/steroids-improve-hand-eye-coordination-ability-to-5271453.html[/quote[/url]]

Well clearly Nadal is not using that kind! He needs to stands 4m behind the baseline when the ball virtually stops to be able to time it!

What streoids do is give you the power to use your wand (be it a baselball bat or a tennis racquet) more freely. This is what I have been saying for some times how a powerful arm helps timing and touch (hence eye/hand coord). If you need to move swiftly a racquet, having big arms helps, this is why Nadal is not too bad at the net in particular when it comes to controlling a heavy ball. The alternative to controlling a hard ball is timing (talent) as you need to move earlier (anticipation) and throw the racquet towards the ball. 2 different styles but similar results.

luvsports! wrote:
You wouldn't mind that your favourite player was a cheat and perhaps this played a part in him winning his slams???

Which favourite player?
As I said I am unbiased when it comes to tennis, I don't really have a favourite player as such.

Amritia3ee wrote:

I don't really see myself as a Nadal 'fan'; I consider myself to be quite unbiased.

You cannot be serious!

Tenez wrote:

Amritia3ee wrote:

I don't really see myself as a Nadal 'fan'; I consider myself to be quite unbiased.

You cannot be serious!

I think Amri has wisened up to some truths and is now trying to jump off of The Titanic before it sinks

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

Amritia3ee wrote:

I don't really see myself as a Nadal 'fan'; I consider myself to be quite unbiased.

You cannot be serious!

I think Amri has wisened up to some truths and is now trying to jump off of The Titanic before it sinks

No I have never wavered, I can assure you I am unbiased as I have always been.