Nadal's criticism of Kyrgios and underarm serving

Nadal loses a tight match to Kyrgios who attempted an underarm first serve during the match.  Nadal subsequently criticised Kyrgios as follows:

He is a player who has enormous talent, he could win Grand Slams and fight the top positions of the ranking, but there is a reason why he is where he is.  He lacks respect for the public, the rival and towards himself.

In general terms I'd say those are fair enough comments about a talented but exasperating bellend of the tour.  

It's not clear to me whether Nadal was also criticising the underarm serve as part of his comments.  Personally I think that it's a legitimate tactic to deploy if your rival is standing back to receive your serve with a view to trying to introduce doubts in his mind.  However, you've got to do it properly and professionally, i.e. not half-heartedly in a way that suggests that it's just part of being a general arse.

What do people think?

Criticism of an underarm serve is absurd. Is it disrespectful to incessantly play on a backhand; to moonball? Does that show a lack of regard for your opponent or the spectators? What's the difference between trying to nullify a players tactic of standing far back and the standing back itself as a tactic to nullify your big serve? Would it be more respectful if Nadal accepted that he should stand close to the service line and give his opponents big serve the credit it "deserves"?

What about taking MTOs?

If he meant that then he's a selfish idiot.

Also, a very nice comeback from Kyrgios who mentioned that we're all different, and for instance how Nadal plays very slow between points but he's not going to comment on his game. Borderline zinger there.

I start to like Nick after this match with Nadal. He was not intimidated  at all and gave Nadal his own medicine. It was brilliant attitude and huge credit for Nick 

An underarm serve could be criticised....But again, not against Nadal. If I remember other players have done so against him for the very reason he stands that far back.

And what criticism is worth from the guy who broke the rule on every single point for over a decade?

Having said that he criticism of Kyrgios is right as Kyrgios simply lacks the professionalism required to get to the next step.

No, it couldn't be criticized.  It's well within the rules and if you fall for it, you fall for it because your own game has a flaw. In Nadal's case, he is 100 feet behind the baseline - and you told me underarm shots would have no effect on him, Tenez.  You were wrong.

Clearly, I was right.  He's bitching like he's been shot and Kyrgios didn't even do it right.  A proper over head short ball with spin would win so many points vs this moonballer but they;re all scared of being called a cheat.

Is it cheating when Nadal stands 100 feet back?  It's a legitimate shot. 

You know why Nadal is bitching so hard?  Because he knows it's effective against him.

Also, can you imagine Federer being that personal about another player for doing an underarm?  Nadal is a cunt.  As I keep reminding you all.

"to get to the next step"

Seems to me you're going to be critical no matter what he does.

Also, has it occurred to anyone that the reason more players don't win against Nadal is because they show him too much respect?  Federer put up with gamesmanship every time they met.  Wasting time. Fake injury time outs.  Trainer call outs. 

And he put up with it instead of saying something or complaining to the umpire.  More players need to show Nadal LESS respect.  A lot less.

Both Nadal's comments and Kyrgios' pisstaking are fine by me, to be honest the pre and post match conferences are so boring, I don't mind a bit of fire.
Would like to see Kyrgios do an underarm serve again next time he plays Nadal.

Daniel2 wrote:Also, can you imagine Federer being that personal about another player for doing an underarm? Nadal is a cunt.

Oh no! I hope Kyrgios is doing okay, perhaps you can go to Mexico and give him a hug. Cry me a river, this is what I call political correctness gone mad.

I love Nadal's arrogant over the top "I've won this" fistpump when 3 set points. LOL.  Then lost.

Nadal's general point tho that Kyrgios' mind is the reason he hasn't yet reached the top, is valid though.

DEC1M7 wrote:Nadal's general point tho that Kyrgios' mind is the reason he hasn't yet reached the top, is valid though.

I agree. I am pretty sure Kyrgios won't win this tournament for that very reason.

We all know that - but Nadal was just butt hurt.  Also, Kyrgios he's ill at mo - as discussed with trainer. But the idea he's a useless nobody that will win nothing is dead wrong.

He couldn't get his underarm serve in btw

Daniel2 wrote:

Clearly, I was right.  He's bitching like he's been shot and Kyrgios didn't even do it right.  

As above.  The fact he didn't do it right and it still annoyed Nadal shows how weak he actually is to short balls.  Terrified it will catch on.  I don't do underarm.  I do short over with spin.  Nadal has no chance against a short ball from that far back and he knows it.

Yeah I think it's fine, and also okay for Nadal and Kyrgios to shit talk each other in post match interviews. You're the only one who seems upset over this.

Underarm serve is just fine.  Normally it will not work but if Rafa stands as far back as he does, why not try it.  Too bad Nick missed it (!).

I thought both of their comments were true.  Rafa may have said what he said because he was bitter about the loss, but he was not wrong.  Likewise Nick was not wrong about Rafa breaking the rules with his slow play.

All fair game.

I see Kyrgios has come back again, saying he smells blood when he plays this dude.

Looking forward to their next match!

In my club, the etiquette is to announce if you are going to serve underarm. Not sure why.

A player should be ready for any length and speed of shot and that includes the serve. Especially if that player is Nadal. 

That aside, good on Kyrgios to try it out even though it didn't work.
I don't see why it should rattle Nadal or anyone.

It's not a net-cord and it's not a shank.

Daniel2 wrote:Also, has it occurred to anyone that the reason more players don't win against Nadal is because they show him too much respect?

I listened to the press conference and realised that Kyrgios was as "professional" as all other players (including Federer) in his press conference (saying how "Rafa is a great champion blah blah) UNTIL the moment one of the journalists mentioned Nadal calling Kyrgios "immature".

It was only then that Kyrgios got "brave" and just showed a kneejerk reaction and opened his big mouth. And even then he was moderate for his standards.

Kyrgios is a dirty, gutless rat and Nadal is right in all he said about him. Of course I love it that Kyrgios beat Nadal, esp as Nadal thought he had the match in the bag...and as a result was steaming in the press conference.

Daniel2 wrote:  Federer put up with gamesmanship every time they met.  Wasting time. Fake injury time outs.  Trainer call outs. 
And he put up with it instead of saying something or complaining to the umpire.  More players need to show Nadal LESS respect.  A lot less.

I have been saying that for years.
Somehow, Federer seems to love Nadal. He said it enough times for me to take his word for it.

So as far as I am concerned that's the answer.

Maybe Mats was right: Fed had no balls when it came to Nadal.

Daniel2 wrote:

Daniel2 wrote:

Clearly, I was right.  He's bitching like he's been shot and Kyrgios didn't even do it right.  

As above.  The fact he didn't do it right and it still annoyed Nadal shows how weak he actually is to short balls.  Terrified it will catch on.  I don't do underarm.  I do short over with spin.  Nadal has no chance against a short ball from that far back and he knows it.

You draw conclusions out of a W which could have as easily been a L. Nadal had 3 MPs so what a failed under arm serve got to do with the result?
You are trying to make us believe that that failed underarm serve decided the match when clearly it did not.

I don't draw conclusions.  I saw one bad underarm that Nadal ran to like a loonie and a good underam he would have no chance. As Bogbrush and I have repeatedly told you:

1. The psychological effect it has to Nadal is significant
2. It stops him camping
3. It will sometimes win points outright.

Kyrgios won..  He won because he did drop shots, has a great serve, and served fast.  He refused to play Nadal's game.

More underarms please.  You keep telling everyone it can't be done. It can.  It has.

No one mentioned it deciding a match.  Just you.

noleisthebest wrote:In my club, the etiquette is to announce if you are going to serve underarm. Not sure why.

"Hi - You know how you're miles behind the baseline..  Well, I have a plan.  ANd here's my plan"

Your club is brainless.

noleisthebest wrote:In my club, the etiquette is to announce if you are going to serve underarm. Not sure why.

A player should be ready for any length and speed of shot and that includes the serve. Especially if that player is Nadal. 

That aside, good on Kyrgios to try it out even though it didn't work.
I don't see why it should rattle Nadal or anyone.

It's not a net-cord and it's not a shank.

Do you announce a ground strike to the ad court? Or the direction you’re serving?

It’s crazy, it’s a legal shot.

I'm delighted to see he's used it a couple of times yesterday in Miami.

The only shock is to find myself in wholehearted agreement with Judy Murray.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/47704618

This comment says it all:

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5. Posted bypoeticjustice

onI'm surprised it's not a tactic used more often, particularly against players who stand 5 metres behind the baseline to receive.
======
Against Nadal and Thiem this would be superb!!!

Except he isn't a genius.  He's just got common sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JMf-5sFiSQ

If you're going underarm.. This is the way to do it.

Think Nadal would have any hope of getting that?

Looks quite good. I would really like to see it tried vs Rafa:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m1P0LhPXHE

Daniel2 wrote:Except he isn't a genius.  He's just got common sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JMf-5sFiSQ

If you're going underarm.. This is the way to do it.

Think Nadal would have any hope of getting that?

He wouldn’t reach it if he did it every time. Nadal is congenitally incapable of standing inside the baseline on return.

Perfectly valid shot. 

I'm glad kyrgios is happy to be 'unconventional' - we have enough automatons in the game as it is. I see no basis whatsoever for Rafa suggesting the move, if that's what he was specifically referring to, as being 'disrespectful', and even if he meant the wider context and Kyrgios's behaviour in general (which has matured considerably), this was not the right time to talk about respecting opponents, self and fans - only looks like sour grapes. O course it may be have been a very leading question from the journo that prompted this response.

But likewise i'm glad he said what he thought. Adds more spice to the next encounter.

However much I dislike Kyrgios and his muttering gamesmanship, I do like the out of the box thinking and flair he brings to the game.

And I respect his honesty to himself however twisted and costly it comes across.