ATP Awards 2012

Fair enough Legendkiller

NITB, I don't think Karlovic complaining in the manner he did was correct.

Well I think he went about it wrongly.

Whether or not the right call was made from a TV was almost near impossible to call. As a server he cannot see his feet as his eye is on the ball during the toss and follow through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWss8qXTjJk

This is the way to handle it

I am for Ferrer from the nominees for Edberg award. David looks very calm and humble on the court. In addition he is the best playing smoker on the Earth

Nole should be among nominees His approach to tennis is really nice and shows how positive he is on the court. Nevertheless I am sure he is going to get better awards in the future.

No Amri I am not with you on the points you raised regarding Federer bad behaviour.

I agree with teh fact that the referee let Delpo too much time to make a decision. This should never happen and it is a clear abuse of HE by many players. I do not see why players shoudl have 5 or more seconds to make a decision when the line judge have only a split second. You shoudl not be allowed to break the rhythm of game and that referee was simply wrong. Fed's outburt was aggressive but RIGHT in principle.

Like when he shouted at the crowd. Aggressive yes but...right again.

It;s different when you are intentionally trying to bend the rules, or trying to rattle your opponent for no reason.

The fact is that had teh referee done a better job, Federer woudl not have been insulting.

Fed was always against HE, it must drive mad him to see HE dictating a match by that much.

And I find ZIdane headbutt more excusable than Nadal's shoulder cause Zidane was certainly provoked into it while I don;t think Rosol provoked Nadal in any way.

When did I say Roger was wrong/ right??
It's easy for a Roger fan to go through everything he did and say he was right, but we are talking about his behavior here, no.
You are admitting his behavior was 'aggressive' but it was right, but this doesn't excuse the fact it was aggressive, non-sportsmanlike conduct is it.
Swearing while talking to the umpire, telling the crowd to shut up... it's not necessary.

And you didn't talk about the trying to point to the wrong spot incident, that's blatant imo:

Vs Rafa Madrid Final 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPBwjZwpOKw

The umpire sees the ball as in. The line-person sees the ball as in. Later Hawkeye shows the ball is in.

Yet Roger points to a mark which shows the ball is way out. It's clear there are two marks, and Roger points to the wrong one in order to mislead the umpire so he wins the point. Even when the umpire makes his decision that the ball was in and shows the correct mark, Roger still argues with the umpire having a go at him as they walk back.

Hawkeye shows the ball as in, yet Roger points to a mark which shows the ball is way out.

As for the Rosol incident, I think Nadal was zoned out and just walked forward, I don't think he was trying to injure Rosol or something. He immediately apologized three times after that incident as well.
Edit: As I've said it doesn't make what he did right, he should have avoided that in the first place.

Tenez wrote:
The fact is that had teh referee done a better job, Federer woudl not have been insulting.

Yep, I figured that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmROvr_d90c

I was watching this and I remembered when Toni called the Parisian crowd stupid essentially for supporting Soderling. But here the crowd seems very much in favour of Rosol.

And this is what I have been saying in many thread is that despite Nadal's huge popularity people like to see players who take risk win.

I have said that many times, even when someone with as little charisma as Davydenko, people end up supporting the better game, the player who take their destiny in their own hands.

Tenez wrote:No Amri I am not with you on the points you raised regarding Federer bad behaviour.

I agree with teh fact that the referee let Delpo too much time to make a decision. This should never happen and it is a clear abuse of HE by many players. I do not see why players shoudl have 5 or more seconds to make a decision when the line judge have only a split second. You shoudl not be allowed to break the rhythm of game and that referee was simply wrong. Fed's outburt was aggressive but RIGHT in principle.

Like when he shouted at the crowd. Aggressive yes but...right again.

It;s different when you are intentionally trying to bend the rules, or trying to rattle your opponent for no reason.

The fact is that had teh referee done a better job, Federer woudl not have been insulting.

Fed was always against HE, it must drive mad him to see HE dictating a match by that much.

And I find ZIdane headbutt more excusable than Nadal's shoulder cause Zidane was certainly provoked into it while I don;t think Rosol provoked Nadal in any way.

I think when seeking 'justification' for Federer's incidents, it can lead to very extreme views on what can accepted on court.

I don't think anyone on this site has anything bad to say about Federer from a character perspective. He is not trying to decieve anyone. The issues at hand is that moments during some of his matches, the heat of the moment or whatever the issue is has gotten under his skin. The guy has played over 1,000 matches in his career and the fact you can count on one hand the little misdemeanours shows you how well he does conduct himself.

As for the Zidane thing. Tenez. Tutt tutt. There's a car park for that type of situation

Tenez, I can show many links of when the crowd is behind Nadal.
Anyway that's slightly irrelevant, I don't see how it excuses Federer.

legendkillar wrote:As for the Zidane thing. Tenez. Tutt tutt. There's a car park for that type of situation

I woudl always excuse the impulsive reaction. Like I was behind Beckham when he got sacked of the world cup for kicking a player and I am certainly not a fan of Beckham.

We cannot be sitting in our chair and say we woudl have reacted differently. The facts are very simple all human beings and all athletes have in their career reacted impulsively to bad behaviour from their opponents. And I do not want to see a player not react badly.

I am not excusing Federer, I actually understand perfectly his reaction, like I did of Cantona, Beckham and Zidane. I actually like those impulsive reaction cause it is natural reaction to something mean. I woudl find it unhealthy not to react to such gratuitious aggressions. My boss in the US used to tell me "dont get angry, get even". That to me that was mean because it requires a cunning mind, which in my view is much worse.

I understand the frustration of the football. I was red-carded twice for decking someone and I can understand outbursts or impulsive reactions can often happen in the heat of the moment. The 2009 incident aside, he was taking the piss in Beijing.

Now if this subject was MTO's....That is a whole other ball park

Zidane is an absolute legend, esp after headbutting that scumbag Mazeratti!

legendkillar wrote:The 2009 incident aside, he was taking the piss in Beijing.

Very possibly. He can be extremely arrogant too...even if very humble at times.

I just think we cannot compare his behaviour with Rafa in general. He has been an extremely good example of conduct in sport. I am not surprised so many players look at him in high respect, including from players like Tsonga and Ljubicic who I trust to be very nice and fair themselves. That speaks more than any other rewards.

Sure I agree that Ljubo deserved the trophy at times as much if not more than Federer but of course athletes want to sell their sport so they put a big name up to please the fans.

But let's face it they are unsignificant rewards....more so since Nadal got it too.

Come on, let's not kid ourselves here, we all watch the players all the time and know very well who does what, no point trying to pull wool over anyone's eyes really
Fed's been real class on the courts 99/9% of the times, you can't ask for more, he is human after all.
There is a reason he is so loved everywhere.

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:The 2009 incident aside, he was taking the piss in Beijing.

Very possibly. He can be extremely arrogant too...even if very humble at times.

I just think we cannot compare his behaviour with Rafa in general. He has been an extremely good example of conduct in sport. I am not surprised so many players look at him in high respect, including from players like Tsonga and Ljubicic who I trust to be very nice and fair themselves. That speaks more than any other rewards.

Sure I agree that Ljubo deserved the trophy at times as much if not more than Federer but of course athletes want to sell their sport so they put a big name up to please the fans.

But let's face it they are unsignificant rewards....more so since Nadal got it too.

Well he was, but at the time I said it's good for their rivalry and adds a bit of spice

Down the years your right there is no comparison on the nature of the behaviour. We have Federer prone to verbally aggressive outbursts and Nadal who more shall we say has taken a different approach to turning a match if it is not going quite to plan. It is the classic one is showing an emotional honesty through speech and the other is using privilages in matches to one's advantage.

But this year 2012, Nadal and Federer have both been a bit cheeky in one of their matches FO Final and Shanghai respectively. Nadal taking his fair share of the cake with his antics in the 5th set against Rosol.

Like I said they are not alone. Djokovic and Murray look to the box for reassurances. Djokovic delays time on big points on his serve. Murray falls about and points to body parts claiming injury and then shows a sudden resurgence in his movement.

I just think it is impossible in big matches involving these 4 that it can near on impossible to maintain a dignity and style throughout the season. I guess you could say when titles or bragging rights are on the line it can tap into the 'winner' within these players.

Take Shanghai. I think Federer learnt that stopping momentum was key to unsettling Andy if he is playing well and Roger himself isn't. Take Wimbledon. OK it wasn't Federer that caused the delay, but once it came Roger found 3-4th gear and Murray just well was blown away and couldn't recapture any of the form in first set and a half. The Olympic Final there were no delays and Federer was cast aside rather easily. Yes fatigue was part of the reason Roger lost so convingly, but there was no delay. Nothing to stop the Murray momentum. Shanghai Murray nicks the first and then Federer struggling in the second within the rules could for the umpire to postpone play. So you can see he was being a cheeky bugger.

But anyhow least Roger hasn't called a dodgy MTO, though some really ardent Fed haters much suggest the Benneteau match was 'dodgy' even though I don't believe it myself

noleisthebest wrote:Zidane is an absolute legend, esp after headbutting that scumbag Mazeratti!

I have to admit I am in the Zidane camp.

I think people view it as a disgrace because obviously as captain was carrying his nation's hopes and that is a lot of pressure to deal with. However, with what Marco I said, if I was Zidane not only would I have butted him, but I would've given him a good kicking while he was on the deck. Disgusting thing to say. Like with Roy Keane on Alf Haaland in 2001. I was in the Keane camp. If anyone accused me of feigning a serious injury I would've kicked them in.

Sometimes in sport despite what is at stake, sometimes you have to ignore third party responsibility to your country, team or the sport itself and not stand for such a personal insult which was not justified in the slightest and take action whether it be verbal or physical.

legendkillar wrote:

Sometimes in sport despite what is at stake, sometimes you have to ignore third party responsibility to your country, team or the sport itself and not stand for such a personal insult which was not justified in the slightest and take action whether it be verbal or physical.

much, much easier said then done
And don't we all hate it when the cheats get away with it! Italy should be stripped of that Cup.Maybe after Blatter dies, i.e leaves his fat cushy job.

dont agree amrit on the crowd 2bh.

remember this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4c95Oqz_tg
nothing much is made of this outburst from novak in serbian and he has a right old go, but i dont feel that was that bad 2bh.