Mercedes Cup, Stuttgart

Federer's 2nd round match after his 1st round bye is just starting vs. big bro Zverev.

Shapovalov, the guy seeded to meet the winner of Fed/Zverev just lost to qualifier Gunneswaran (me neither).

Kyrgios, who is seeded for the SF in that half, doesn't play singles today.

The question is how much energy does Fed want to expend shaking off the rust here when losing the first match did him no harm last year?

shapovalov lost? didnt expect that

Poof goes the 1st set; Fed fails to convert 4 bp's, throws away his 4th service game to love, and Zverev consolidates to love - 3:6.

How hard will Fed fight back?

its his first match and it is grass


btw it is so nice to see grass tennis after 3 months of clay


even for a claycourt tennis fan like me, grass is always welcome

Had a quick look. Federer looks like an old man who doesn't want to hurt himself on slippery grass.

That makes total sense; he is pretty old in tennis terms, he has not played competitively for 3 months, not on grass for a year, and it's pretty easy to hurt yourself on grass.

I was just saying!

What amazes me is that he can still win walking on eggs, effortlessly.

OK - done and dusted in 1hr 33mins 3-6 6-4 6-2.  First set ever given up to Zverev senior.

TD will be pleased, what next....?

next is pella or Gunneswaran

fed is almost sure in semis, then he will have kyrgios, feli, marterer or simon

and then the final

He'll want to win one of these two tournaments for sure, but for me it doesn't make sense for Fed to want to play 9 matches over the next two weeks.  We'll see how he goes.

nadal has withdrawn from queens

It'll not be too demanding, short matches and the rallies in Germany are very short.

He'll treat them as glorified training sessions.

naxroy wrote:nadal has withdrawn from queens

Historically that's not good for his Wimbledon prospects - he's only ever made the final in years when he's also played at Queens.  Without any competitive grass matches under his belt he's more vulnerable than usual in the early rounds at Wimbledon.

We'll see.....

I still doubt he enters wimbledon

Why is he exhausted at 32? Fed was playing all slams at that age. Considering Nadal had a long rest after the AO, I am not sure why he is taking a break again.

Refill I guess!

naxroy wrote:I still doubt he enters wimbledon

Why?

Tenez wrote:Why is he exhausted at 32? Fed was playing all slams at that age. Considering Nadal had a long rest after the AO, I am not sure why he is taking a break again.

Refill I guess!

That's true. Taking a really long time out and then doing well soon after a comeback raises your suspicion does it?
Nadal has done that, can you think of any other top tennis player? No, me neither.

bogbrush wrote:

naxroy wrote:I still doubt he enters wimbledon

Why?

From his interviews seemed doubtful he would enter Wimbledon. Also said he will decide in the next few months whether to play the French Open next year. Perhaps he's close to retirement? Has achieved more than he could have dreamt.

If anyone noticed, our beloved Shapo lost to a player ranked 176. Still too raw on tour.

DEC1M7 wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

naxroy wrote:I still doubt he enters wimbledon

Why?

From his interviews seemed doubtful he would enter Wimbledon. Also said he will decide in the next few months whether to play the French Open next year. Perhaps he's close to retirement? Has achieved more than he could have dreamt.

Where did you find this info? Recently he said after his 11th RG title 'There is no limit'.

Already we're seeing why it's far harder to win on grass to clay.

Tenez wrote:Why is he exhausted at 32? Fed was playing all slams at that age. Considering Nadal had a long rest after the AO, I am not sure why he is taking a break again.

Refill I guess!

If you have proves you should go to the police and report

otherwise I think you should respect everyone´s presumption of innocence, specially for someone who is bound to undergo multiple antidoping controls every year

naxroy wrote:

Tenez wrote:Why is he exhausted at 32? Fed was playing all slams at that age. Considering Nadal had a long rest after the AO, I am not sure why he is taking a break again.

Refill I guess!

If you have proves you should go to the police and report

otherwise I think you should respect everyone´s presumption of innocence, specially for someone who is bound to undergo multiple antidoping controls every year

He's also said Federer is likely a doper, no respect for the Swiss legend

naxroy wrote:

Tenez wrote:Why is he exhausted at 32? Fed was playing all slams at that age. Considering Nadal had a long rest after the AO, I am not sure why he is taking a break again.

Refill I guess!

If you have proves you should go to the police and report

otherwise I think you should respect everyone´s presumption of innocence, specially for someone who is bound to undergo multiple antidoping controls every year

In Spain when you have proof you decide to destroy it. So please do not expect credibility when your legal system protects dopers.

Tenez wrote:

naxroy wrote:

Tenez wrote:Why is he exhausted at 32? Fed was playing all slams at that age. Considering Nadal had a long rest after the AO, I am not sure why he is taking a break again.

Refill I guess!

If you have proves you should go to the police and report

otherwise I think you should respect everyone´s presumption of innocence, specially for someone who is bound to undergo multiple antidoping controls every year

In Spain when you have proof you decide to destroy it. So please do not expect credibility when your legal system protects dopers.

 

that is true (the destruction of proof in operación puerto) and it is really shameful for spanish authorities
and nadal was totally against that decision, because indeed it threw shadow over clean athletes

naxroy wrote:
that is true (the destruction of proof in operación puerto) and it is really shameful for spanish authorities
and nadal was totally against that decision, because indeed it threw shadow over clean athletes

Do you think there was a chance of him begging for the names not to be released? That's a bit naive.

your obsession is naive

and your inability to admitt that a player you dislike is indeed a true champion, is sad

poor answer. You don't argue cause you have no arguments.

I don;t dislike a player for the sake of disliking it. There are reasons why I like and dislike players. Yours breaks the rule in front millions of people, I don;t have to have much imagination to understand what he does to get fitter when nobody's watching!

The stories of top athletes doping are way too rampant nowadays!

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:If anyone noticed, our beloved Shapo lost to a player ranked 176. Still too raw on tour.

Pretty bad result that

naxroy wrote:

Tenez wrote:

naxroy wrote:

Tenez wrote:Why is he exhausted at 32? Fed was playing all slams at that age. Considering Nadal had a long rest after the AO, I am not sure why he is taking a break again.

Refill I guess!

If you have proves you should go to the police and report

otherwise I think you should respect everyone´s presumption of innocence, specially for someone who is bound to undergo multiple antidoping controls every year

In Spain when you have proof you decide to destroy it. So please do not expect credibility when your legal system protects dopers.

 

that is true (the destruction of proof in operación puerto) and it is really shameful for spanish authorities
and nadal was totally against that decision, because indeed it threw shadow over clean athletes

I don't know where you got this about him being against it. Clean athletes are very few, and most are not winning much.

Doping is highly difficult to catch and unless the guys who are catching them have real incentive in doing so, they do not ( coz they have incentive in not doing so). Russian state sponsored doping is world known, some other nations as well. Spain has also been known to do it.


Do I think Nadal is doped? I would say yes, but I only see the smoke. He has exhibited signs of doping. ts no proof of course, so its left to the individual to draw his own conclusion. Tenez doesn't have proof Nadal is doping, correct. Neither you have proof that he is not. Tennis fans like us have just the smoke to see.

 And I had this opinion from the 2005. 

But I don't deny his game on clay is the best for the surface. Because it is.

"Neither you have proof that he is not"


nobody has to proof his/her innocence, first, at least in a democratic state is the other way around, there must be proof to find someone guilty

Not correct. If we were entering a Court of Law then the burden of proof is on the prosecution, but in a civil case for example there is only a requirement to show on the balance of probability. 

In the court of personal opinion though, the burden is perhaps similar to that of civil law but with the ability to draw upon  the widest possible set of evidence.

I do sympathise with the opinion that you cannot prove a negative. It's not always true but I think the whole theme of criminal level proof is off the point; we are looking at a subject and drawing conclusions based on most probable explanation for what we see.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:If anyone noticed, our beloved Shapo lost to a player ranked 176. Still too raw on tour.

I saw the last three games.
It's worth mentioning that Shapo's match was moved three days/times because of bad weather.

The guy he played was a baseliner, nothing special...again, Shapo was casual.

It looks like that's how he is coping with pressure...by reverting to - I am a kid, learning, my time is coming etc etc...

He probably has breakfast with that soft toy across the table.

I dunno what to think...so I'll enjoy his good tennis as it comes without too much expectation and hope.

noleisthebest wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:If anyone noticed, our beloved Shapo lost to a player ranked 176. Still too raw on tour.

I saw the last three games.
It's worth mentioning that Shapo's match was moved three days/times because of bad weather.

The guy he played was a baseliner, nothing special...again, Shapo was casual.

It looks like that's how he is coping with pressure...by reverting to - I am a kid, learning, my time is coming etc etc...

He probably has breakfast with that soft toy across the table.

I dunno what to think...so I'll enjoy his good tennis as it comes without too much expectation and hope.

That's the only worry thing. With this kind of talent, winning can suddenly click in and then they can't lose anymore. But I must say, he seems still pretty immature mentally and champions are usually extremely mature.

Tenez wrote:I was just saying!

What amazes me is that he can still win walking on eggs, effortlessly.

Yes, his movement was odd.

He looked fresh and healthy, the close up of his calves showed he is ready to last till the end of the season.
So just needing matches now to hone those fine fibres you can only get when playing matches.

I only sad second half of the match and he played well. He was passing Zverev at will, also sending him difficult balls to the net.

Pretty good considering it was a first match since March.

These days he is like a precious masterpiece they keep under a glass dome in a museum and when the curator in white gloves comes and takes him out with utmost care and places him on the court, he needs time to adapt to fresh air, sunshine, sounds...

I also didn't like he put on a jacket after set 2 when he went for the toilet break.

noleisthebest wrote:I also didn't like he put on a jacket after set 2 when he went for the toilet break.

Did not see that. Hopefully per precaution.

We will find out very soon how his back feels. I am pretty sure it has been there or thereabout since Wimby 18..as well as the many years before that too.

Just watched the highlights, and (i) he had a t-shirt on for the end of the match as for the beginning (ii) from what the crowd was wearing it was not a warm day at all.

As a by-the-by, they've got a really nice thing going at Stuttgart this year.  I'd willingly watch all today's matches (the fact that a relatively heavyweight match up of Berdych v. Raonic is the least appealing to me says something), and there's the prospect of a SF line-up that is heavyweight in parts and interesting in others.

One more win to ascend again to the throne.

Another W in the bag for Rog.
FH looking hungry and good.

There was one fantastic overhead smash and a bh stop volley...

Didn’t notice the BH much, mainly slices...

So one win away from numero uno!

bogbrush wrote:One more win to ascend again to the throne.

Watch the chickens - if Kyrgios gets through he has played 6 sets against Federer on tour and every single one of them has ended in a tie-breaker.

barrystar wrote:

bogbrush wrote:One more win to ascend again to the throne.

Watch the chickens - if Kyrgios gets through he has played 6 sets against Federer on tour and every single one of them has ended in a tie-breaker.

I have no idea how many there are, my words were chosen wisely.

It's an odd thing with the ranking because if he pinches it back he then has to win Halle & Wimbledon to keep it, then we go off to N America where Nadal has to do great things to retain it... and so it goes on.

Quite - we have not had a see-saw situation since before 2004.

2012 was quite a seesaw one with the last match at O2 final being the decider!

I get your point about uncertainty - but #1 was not changing hands for short periods like this year, when it has changed hands four times and the new #1 has enjoyed very short stints of half a dozen weeks or less at the top.  In 2012 it was different.  Fed was #1 for 17 weeks sandwiched between long uninterrupted periods of Djokovic at #1.  The last time we saw the ranking swap backwards and forwards like it has done these last few months was 2003.  Right now it's on Fed's racquet for a bit and we'll see.

Could Federer & Nadal set a new record for handovers of #1? They could even end up vying for the record of most spells as #1, only increasing their number by first increasing the others number.

Kyrgios has been close numerous times to beating Fed and if he plays his best I think Fed will be out.  Unlike Nadal, there are a lot of good grass players about compared to clay.

bogbrush wrote:It's an odd thing with the ranking because if he pinches it back he then has to win Halle & Wimbledon to keep it, then we go off to N America where Nadal has to do great things to retain it... and so it goes on.

Let's not plan on it "going on" until at least after Wimbledon.  Fed has an awful lot of points to defend and he is not 35 anymore.

naxroy wrote:nobody has to proof his/her innocence, first, at least in a democratic state is the other way around, there must be proof to find someone guilty

In courts we are not looking for a best estimate of how things are.  We take the view that it is better to let a guilty person go free than to condemn an innocent one.  So, if we think someone is guilty with 80% chance, we let them go free.

But in forum discussions, people just want to get their best estimate of how things really are - so it would be counterproductive to "presume innocence".

whenever nadal sits in the defendant´s chair, we shall hand this forum´s archive to the judge so that he has proof enough to fullfill your dreams