The GOAT conversation will reboot...

I personally have no problem with people having "such problems". It can happen I guess. Its just the media and lobbying behind which really annoys me.

Indeed, people have disorders. It's been hijacked by the cultural marxists because it suits the agenda to undermine confidence & especially the family..

I actually heard a sermon on all that this morning.
The problem is spiritual.

Homosexuality, transgender, equality, it's all coming from the same corner with the same purpose - to destroy all moral values and manipulate the masses more easily.

They have been doing it slowly and systematically for a long time.

There is one little worry that I have about this Fed winning everything at 36 thing. What if it is not just that Fed is so special but what if this is the new normal? If Rafa had continued his slide this year, maybe I would be less worried but he has looked as good as new. What if Rafa and Nole can also be having multi-slam years until 36+? We could be looking at another 10+ slams for Rafa and he could end up between 25-30. Yikes!!!!

I'm not a parent, but somehow feels these modern day parents are all ok and no bother when their kids choose this style.

Have a neighbor, some 18y girl lesbian (who I tried many times to straighten her up behind her garden with no success) and the mom of her GF drops her GF regularly at her home, while the mom of my neighbor welcomes her to her home to have fun with his girl, wtf is this sad shit, important they are happy, blla blla.

... wrote:I actually heard a sermon on all that this morning.
The problem is spiritual.

Homosexuality, transgender, equality, it's all coming from the same corner with the same purpose - to destroy all moral values and manipulate the masses more easily.

They have been doing it slowly and systematically for a long time.

All to reduce the population of the World, expect some new disease soon to kill  a few millions of unneeded humans. 

Emanci what you done to the thread, derailed it from GOAT to Ladyboys 

summerblues wrote:There is one little worry that I have about this  Fed winning everything at 36 thing.  What if it is not just that Fed is so special but what if this is the new normal?  If Rafa had continued his slide this year, maybe I would be less worried but he has looked as good as new.  What if Rafa and Nole can also be having multi-slam years until 36+?  We could be looking at another 10+ slams for Rafa and he could end up between 25-30.  Yikes!!!!

Huge difference they don t have the talent to overcome the new generation. I know I have said this for long but now is the time it will get harder...
Or maybe the older generation (Muller, Lopez...) will get even better

Personally I'm all for live and let live. Some blokes likes men? Then ok, just so long as they don't force it down my throat, eh? 

As for lesbians, that's ok too. So long as they're hot. And I can watch.

Someone wants their dick off, or one stuck on? Ok too, but don't make me say you're a woman/man when your chromosobes say otherwise and you look like a bloke in drag (yes, that's you Bruce Jenner).

What I don't like us how it gets hijacked in order to undermine the family. I feel for single patents in most cases and wish them the best but it really is better for kids to have the emotional security of a loving Mum & Dad. The State isn't keen on the family though, they tend to teach their kids their win values and not those proscribed by the State. In particular, nit beciming clients of the State.

Anyway, this us the rebooted GOAT thread, not the infamous "Who dies she think she is" extravaganza.

Preach Boggy!

luvsports! wrote:Preach Boggy!

Yeah, sorry!

Tenez wrote:

summerblues wrote:There is one little worry that I have about this  Fed winning everything at 36 thing.  What if it is not just that Fed is so special but what if this is the new normal?  If Rafa had continued his slide this year, maybe I would be less worried but he has looked as good as new.  What if Rafa and Nole can also be having multi-slam years until 36+?  We could be looking at another 10+ slams for Rafa and he could end up between 25-30.  Yikes!!!!

Huge difference they don t have the talent to overcome the new generation. I know I have said this for long but now is the time it will get harder...

I hope you are right and they do decline.  But - as you say - you have said similar things many times before.  And so far, you have mostly been wrong

It's not the new normal - you can be sure of that.  Federer is a freak of nature and is the greatest of all time.  Is it so hard to accept that the greatest player of all time will also play unlike any other post 30?  Not really.  Nadal hasn't won a slam off clay since 2013, and the US Open that year was his only one off clay since 2010 (and people are going on like this stat doesn't mean anything). In other words 2011-2017 (7 years!), Nadal has won ONE slam off clay. All the others came before that.  Djok and Murray are winding down.

summerblues wrote:

Tenez wrote:

summerblues wrote:There is one little worry that I have about this  Fed winning everything at 36 thing.  What if it is not just that Fed is so special but what if this is the new normal?  If Rafa had continued his slide this year, maybe I would be less worried but he has looked as good as new.  What if Rafa and Nole can also be having multi-slam years until 36+?  We could be looking at another 10+ slams for Rafa and he could end up between 25-30.  Yikes!!!!

Huge difference they don t have the talent to overcome the new generation. I know I have said this for long but now is the time it will get harder...

I hope you are right and they do decline.  But - as you say - you have said similar things many times before.  And so far, you have mostly been wrong

i have mostly been wrong cause I have been too right. I knew players were improving with age....but never thought that aged.

Players are improving?  Lol.  Using one player - Federer - as any yardstick is ridiculous.

As for GOAT:

Daniel wrote:It's not the new normal - you can be sure of that.  Federer is a freak of nature and is the greatest of all time.  Is it so hard to accept that the greatest player of all time will also play unlike any other post 30?  Not really.  Nadal hasn't won a slam off clay since 2013, and the US Open that year was his only one off clay since 2010 (and people are going on like this stat doesn't mean anything). In other words 2011-2017 (7 years!), Nadal has won ONE slam off clay. All the others came before that.  Djok and Murray are winding down.

sure Fed is a freak but you cannot deny that the other top 5 are all over 30. There is a trend after all.

And if we look at the race we can see the youngsters really chasing up Fed and Nadal....

And they are winning what?  Murray has won nothing this year. Nor has Djok. Nadal just FO again.  And it's a weak time in tennis - hardly anyone coming through.  That's more plausible than human biology suddenly ceases to exist, don't you think?  You're the ultimate straw grasper. And it's pointless me even taking you seriously anyway, since you've already admitted that your excuse for future younger players winning is that they will have raised the bar.  So it's once again heads you win tails we lose.  Federer wins age 35?  PLAYERS PLAYING BETTER WHEN OLDER ZOMG!  21-27 year old wins (and they will) IT'S HIGHER STANDARD NOW.  OLD GUARD CAN'T HANG WITH THE NEW ERA! [in fact, you're already preparing your lame ass excuse in a post above haha].

Your MO is laid bare, Tenez.  Your argument can be whatever you want it to be. Anyone can do it. 

While we're on facts - the SF line up this year is Fed 35, Cilic 29, Querrey 29, berdych 31.  The older side, yes... but nothing to write home about apart from Fed... who is not typical of any player.

Daniel wrote:And they are winning what?  ...

...whatever they are winning, they are winning more than your 25-27yo.

Well apart from Rome, every Slam and Masters this year has been won by Federer or Nadal.

It's over half way through the season.

That's crazy.

Here's an interesting quote from the Telegraph. Exciting prospect of Federer crossing swords with the people coming after Zverev and Thiem!

"Later, as he faced reporters’ questions in the interview room, he confirmed that he still has plenty of appetite for these challenges and could seriously envisage himself playing Wimbledon – proper ­Wimbledon that is, rather than the legends’ events – at the grand old age of 40."

To be fair....on paper he is favourite for next year's.

Can he di another 5 in a row?

Ok, now it's getting ridiculous.

As for the oldies doing well thing: 

1) Let's face it there hasn't been an elite (multi-slam winner in any era) level talent emerge since Del Potro.. and he's always injured. 

Some of the players since have been quite good but nothing that even a 35 yr Federer (fit and rested) shouldn't be able to take care of. 

Taking Dimitrov as an example: touted as baby Fed and the next big thing, but in reality Federer does everything better than him. Then there's guys like Raonic and Nishikori - these guys wouldn't be very threatening in any era.

This has extended the window of opportunity for Federer, Nadal et al.

2) Tenez's theory about equipment I think has some merit. Until the last decade or so there have been huge advances in racquet and string tech. Not so much recently. The older players therefore have an advantage in having played with this equipment longer and having been able to adapt and develop their games according to it. I say some merit, but quite frankly, I think this makes little difference. The younger players would have grown up with this equipment and so shouldn't be disadvantaged.

3) Another theory is that the 32 man seeding at the slams protects the older, established players from playing dangerous opponents in the first couple of rds and thus protects their ranking, allowing them to play for longer. This seeding change took place in 2001.

4) Homogenised conditions allows one game to flourish on all courts. But this doesn't account for why it's the 'one game' of the older players succeeding and not the 'one game' of the younger players.

And of course training methods, nutrition, better conditioning etc can prolong careers. 

Personally, I think it's mainly the first one - not many exceptional players coming through - combined with the fact that Federer/Nadal/Djokovic are an outstanding trio who will continue to be great in their thirties, if not quite as good as they were in their twenties.

Damn, that was a long post. I need a sex change after that 

Tenez wrote:

Daniel wrote:And they are winning what?  ...

...whatever they are winning, they are winning more than your 25-27yo.

More than Zverev this year?  I think you need to look again.... He's just won a Masters event.  Thiem also knocked out Nadal on clay.  That's more than Djok and Murray have done.

Tenez wrote:i have mostly been wrong cause I have been too right.

That is all very well.  But, when Rafa wins his 27th GS title five years from now, it will be of little comfort to me  when you explain that it only means that you were even more correct than you thought you would be.

Emancipator wrote:Damn, that was a long post. I need a sex change after that 

Are you the 13th Emancipator?

Emancipator wrote:Personally, I think it's mainly the first one - not many exceptional players coming through - combined with the fact that Federer/Nadal/Djokovic are an outstanding trio who will continue to be great in their thirties, if not quite as good as they were in their twenties.

I agree with this.  I also think it is a combo of a number of things but all of the other ones put together do not seem to credibly explain it all.

Lack of talent must play a big role in all that.

Updating my favorite graph - slam count by age for the Big 4:



Nadal started off younger than Fed, but by age 26 Fed caught up with him and has been ahead since then.  For the same age, Fed is two slams ahead of Rafa but Rafa has now a stratch of a few years where Fed did not win anything, so a chance to make up the difference.

Nole won his first slam young, but then picked up only later and has always been behind Fed and Rafa.

...and Andy.  Oh well, Andy, within this context, the less said the better.

hehe, that's a visually really funny graph, esp Murray, he looks like a worm lost in the space and time.

And good choice of colours for each of them.

I wonder what it's going to look like "when all is said and done".

bogbrush wrote:

Emancipator wrote:Damn, that was a long post. I need a sex change after that 

Are you the 13th Emancipator?

A women could never do this job 

It also doesn't help that Nadal has pretty much no rival on clay these days apart from Djok... and even he wasn't around this year.

The race is back on for total slam count and final GOAT status.

Federer is definitely not safe. 

Even if Rafa gets to within 1 or 2 most people will consider GOAT to be very debatable.

 

Emancipator

Look at Emanci, keeping this thread page open for last 2 hours ready to comment 

Hello Jahu,

Your boy Fed still has a lot of work to do!!

What you mean, W and USO are his, WTF we'll see, don't you read news on your Planet? 

Eh? 20 is still well ahead of 17, and when 11 of those 17 are on the most specialist surface it reads to me like clay goat plus involved in others.

I agree it would be nice to see Federer add a Wimbledon in a month, and a tough draw for Nadal at the USO would be good for a change. I will concede that it’s a good job Federer pulled out that win at AO ‘17 or we’d be looking at 19-18.

Will be a sad day when either of them retire.
Fed had the edge with his advantage of 3 slams, and both could add to their tally yet.

This race has never been quite "not on".  Even two years ago, right after Nole won RG, I was saying Rafa was a bigger threat to the Fed's slam count than Nole was.

That said, I think Fed is the favorite to come out ahead.  They are getting older and I do not see Rafa collecting slams until he is 36-37.

But boy, this conversation would have been different had Fed not done as well as he has over the last 1.5 years.

DECIMA wrote:Will be a sad day when either of them retire.

Agree 50%.

I think this year is Fed's last year of slam success.

Rafa has another couple of years. 

It's gonna be close.

People like to oversay things like "the next slam will be critical for the race", but with Fed and Rafa running out of time, each slam does gain extra importance.

This Wimbledon and USO will be very important.  If Rafa does not win either, I think it will be very hard for him to catch Fed.  On the other hand, if he wins one (or both ) but Fed does not, he will be in much better shape - I would say close to 50/50 at that point.

Likewise, if say Fed could win both of them, that I think would just about seal it.

summerblues wrote:People like to oversay things like "the next slam will be critical for the race", but with Fed and Rafa running out of time, each slam does gain extra importance.

This Wimbledon and USO will be very important.  If Rafa does not win either, I think it will be very hard for him to catch Fed.  On the other hand, if he wins one (or both ) but Fed does not, he will be in much better shape - I would say close to 50/50 at that point.

Likewise, if say Fed could win both of them, that I think would just about seal it.

I agree. 20-18 at the end of this year - then it's roughly 50:50

21-17 - Fed has it most likely

21-18 - Fed clearly still in driving seat.

I like 22-17

But maybe you will get 20-19.

Emancipator wrote:Hello Jahu,

Your boy Fed still has a lot of work to do!!

I thought you were a Federer fan Emancipator...if my memory from v2 serves me right.

What happened?

summerblues wrote:But maybe you will get 20-19.

V unlikely   

But it would be a disaster

Hope that also answers your question NITB.

Emancipator wrote:

summerblues wrote:But maybe you will get 20-19.

V unlikely   

But it would be a disaster

Hope that also answers your question NITB.

Are you sure you are not DECIMA's twin brother?