A Stan Slam would be hilarious

noleisthebest wrote:Why does Socal dislike Fed so much?

I am amazed he likes Nadal who was the beneficiary of slowed down courts, balls, rigged draws....Nole and Fed were the "victims".

Nadal was even able to practically fire a top umpire from his matches (Bernardes).

Toni is/was probably mastermind behind the scenes...

Which is why I will always be upset with Federer who had all the clout and support from players to say something, to insist on fairer playing comditions for ALL, not just one player.
Instead, he compltely caved in to Nadal and chummied along.


Now that's what I call gutless.

Don't think it's a dislike based on the man himself, more that when Djokovic became successful that the majority of detractors were Federer fans. 

Hence why for me, the whole argument of Slam wins based on quality of opposition becomes too murky. It's an argument I gave up on a long time ago because most are unable to see through personal bias.

I certainly don't by the argument Nadal is Master of Puppets. Especially when Federers stock is much bigger than his. For me the biggest move was when the protected ranking was challenged and never enforced. Imagine what the game would look like if had.

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Exactly. Anyone can beat anyone on any given sunday. We've seen it with Federer and Nadal, Djokovic suffered an upset as Murray has had his share too.

socal would have a field day on here with Federer's past draws at his peak

Socal always struggled with Logos. Nice guy though but all his judgement was based on the match result.
He only takes into consideration the numbers that makes the score......except of course when Djoko lost to Fognini.

Federer "peak" years were on faster courts, smaller balls. It was Nadal who was struggling to beat seads at the USO.

I'd like to see Djoko, Murray and Nadal  play on even faster conds with a 90inch racquet, having learnt to play with gut facing Nalby and Blake. All those big muscles they acqiuired would be useless.

Ah you meant when Fognini withdrew and it caused a ripple. I am waiting for the fall out for the many retirements Djokovic faced at the US. Called VesYouzOngagate!

Yes Nadal struggled, but look how he's struggled at Wimbledon since 2012. It's not so black and white completely. At the point Nadal caught up with the US Open, his results at Wimbledon have been less impressive.

It would be amazing to see all the greats compete against each other at their peaks and eras. Would be a true testament of greatness.

Surely you remember that one time when Socal found all the excuses to Djoko for losing to Fed in FO11.

Indeed I do. Fogniniiiiiiiiiiiii!! He used the excuse that the gap in play caused a momentum shift.

legendkillar wrote:Yes Nadal struggled, but look how he's struggled at Wimbledon since 2012. It's not so black and white completely. At the point Nadal caught up with the US Open, his results at Wimbledon have been less impressive.

Nadal always struggled at Wimbledon...even before 2012. 2 sets to 0 down to many players (Querrey, Youzhny twice, Petzcny whatever his name was, Haas, etc....). At least in that first week. The difference is that post 2012, he lost those close matches he was so close to lose back then....cause players became better and more importantly more used to his spin.

That's why I do not buy Nadal is not as good as before. To me he looks better on many aspects. he doesn;t need those 60s between points anymore. His shots have more pace, etc....but 5 years on the tour is much better at handling those shots like the tour got better at retrieving Federer's FH.

In tennis almost every player progresses, so it makes tennis more competitve year in year out. Problem is when you are a one trick poney a la nadal, Hewitt or Chang..and even Borg, you become quickly overtaken if you don't adapt and frankly Nadal adapted quite ok cause he woudl not go very far with his 2008 game nowadays. I think he honestly says it himself.

Even at our club level, anyone who is a club member of a decent club size (over 200 members) will tell you the level is better now than 5 years ago. Unlike racing or other track sport, tennis is about beating the opponent. The more you play with one player the more both players ' level will go up.....when when playing against a 100 player field, the progress is exponential.

Tenez wrote:Surely you remember that one time when Socal found all the excuses to Djoko for losing to Fed in FO11.

I remember Fognini-gate!

It was in the heyday of my Nole fandom...those were the days!

At the time I thought, great, he'll have plenty of time to rest and be fresh in the semi...(as was the case this USO), but!

He was young and inexperienced and under a loooooot of pressure with his crazy winning streak.

What annoyed me about Fognini w/o was that had he played and lost the match as he would have, Nole would be holding the streak record now...Tipsarevic also gave him a w/o earlier that year, I think it was Serbian Open, (envious little slimeball  ) so technically, Nole owns that record as far as I am concerned!

I was too heartbroken to watch the whole match.

Now that I remember it, I can't believe what crazy wave of madnesss I was riding on.  

noleisthebest wrote:
Now that I remember it, I can't believe what crazy wave of madnesss I was riding on.  

That wave is still going!

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Yes Nadal struggled, but look how he's struggled at Wimbledon since 2012. It's not so black and white completely. At the point Nadal caught up with the US Open, his results at Wimbledon have been less impressive.

Nadal always struggled at Wimbledon...even before 2012. 2 sets to 0 down to many players (Querrey, Youzhny twice, Petzcny whatever his name was, Haas, etc....). At least in that first week. The difference is that post 2012, he lost those close matches he was so close to lose back then....cause players became better and more importantly more used to his spin.

That's why I do not buy Nadal is not as good as before. To me he looks better on many aspects. he doesn;t need those 60s between points anymore. His shots have more pace, etc....but 5 years on the tour is much better at handling those shots like the tour got better at retrieving Federer's FH.

In tennis almost every player progresses, so it makes tennis more competitve year in year out. Problem is when you are a one trick poney a la nadal, Hewitt or Chang..and even Borg, you become quickly overtaken if you don't adapt and frankly Nadal adapted quite ok cause he woudl not go very far with his 2008 game nowadays. I think he honestly says it himself.

Even at our club level, anyone who is a club member of a decent club size (over 200 members) will tell you the level is better now than 5 years ago. Unlike racing or other track sport, tennis is about beating the opponent. The more you play with one player the more both players ' level will go up.....when when playing against a 100 player field, the progress is exponential.

You are saying 2 different things. We have gone from he was being beaten by players at the US Open to struggling at Wimbledon 2010 oddly the same year Federer had his struggles. Wimbledon it was downhill after 2012, however the year after he won the US Open.

You touched on conditions slowing progressively since Feds peak dominance, however when you look at it, Nadals record at the AO is a mystery to me given its conditions.

Nadal was overtaken the moment his levels dropped. Not like he was surpassed at his pomp.

Tennis players improve, granted. Tennis players are jack of all trades and master of none.

You are ignoring teh very point I make. Nadal DID struggle at Wimbledon before 2012. He was couple of points away from going out the first weeks. He said it himself. "The first week is the toughest cause it's fast and slippery".

Federer was injured at Wimby 2010. It's well documented.

To discuss we need to acknowledge the facts otherwise the discussion will not lead us anywhere.

Regarding teh AO, its simple to me. Nadal is above all a clay courter as 9 of his 14 slams and 80% of his 1000s were on clay .

He won teh USO the year the USO bigged the balls, he won WImby when you had more service breaks than at the FO and at the AO, Murray and Djoko, or most big hitters coudl blast him off.

The point is outside clay Nadal fought very hard to grab rarer success.....often very close to lose but somehow managed to make the difference physically....but his wins there were much more fragile.

On clay he had much more margin of form variation.

legendkillar wrote:

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Yes Nadal struggled, but look how he's struggled at Wimbledon since 2012. It's not so black and white completely. At the point Nadal caught up with the US Open, his results at Wimbledon have been less impressive.

Nadal always struggled at Wimbledon...even before 2012. 2 sets to 0 down to many players (Querrey, Youzhny twice, Petzcny whatever his name was, Haas, etc....). At least in that first week. The difference is that post 2012, he lost those close matches he was so close to lose back then....cause players became better and more importantly more used to his spin.

That's why I do not buy Nadal is not as good as before. To me he looks better on many aspects. he doesn;t need those 60s between points anymore. His shots have more pace, etc....but 5 years on the tour is much better at handling those shots like the tour got better at retrieving Federer's FH.

In tennis almost every player progresses, so it makes tennis more competitve year in year out. Problem is when you are a one trick poney a la nadal, Hewitt or Chang..and even Borg, you become quickly overtaken if you don't adapt and frankly Nadal adapted quite ok cause he woudl not go very far with his 2008 game nowadays. I think he honestly says it himself.

Even at our club level, anyone who is a club member of a decent club size (over 200 members) will tell you the level is better now than 5 years ago. Unlike racing or other track sport, tennis is about beating the opponent. The more you play with one player the more both players ' level will go up.....when when playing against a 100 player field, the progress is exponential.

You are saying 2 different things. We have gone from he was being beaten by players at the US Open to struggling at Wimbledon 2010 oddly the same year Federer had his struggles. Wimbledon it was downhill after 2012, however the year after he won the US Open.

You touched on conditions slowing progressively since Feds peak dominance, however when you look at it, Nadals record at the AO is a mystery to me given its conditions.

Nadal was overtaken the moment his levels dropped. Not like he was surpassed at his pomp.

Tennis players improve, granted. Tennis players are jack of all trades and master of none.

that has to do with the way he cycles..the year he won AO,he lost RG and didn't play Wimbledon..by the end of the year at the WTF he had lost so much weight ( deflated) which is what happened when you cycle down from drugs that have growth hormones