Re: US open prediction game: Day 8

by summerblues Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:05 am

Tenez wrote:I agree. But to me this is a form of talent. Especially doing it without the big arms.

Maybe so. But that does not matter much to me. I do not care for talent per se. I just care about how much I like the end product. Even if someone managed to convince me that Rublev was more talented than Shapovalov, I would still prefer Shapovalov, because I find his game exciting whereas I find Rublev's game dull.

by Tenez Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:10 am

Fair enough. I try to enjoy all forms of talent...that is those who make what it difficult look easy.

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:41 am

Tenez wrote:Fair enough. I try to enjoy all forms of talent...that is those who make what it difficult look easy.

There is nothing easy about Dolgo's game. If it was, he would be doing it more consistently which he isn't. His own game is difficult for him to execute. His game isn't even good to look at.

If making something difficult look easy is talent, then why is retrieving all the otherwise-to-be-winners shot after shot, making insane passes from 5m behind the BH not talent in your book? Its not easy you see, not anyone at will can do it.

by Tenez Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:41 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:Fair enough. I try to enjoy all forms of talent...that is those who make what it difficult look easy.
There is nothing easy about Dolgo's game. If it was, he would be doing it more consistently which he isn't. His own game is difficult for him to execute. His game isn't even good to look at.

He scores points quite easily actually. He throws his racquet flat taking the ball early. It's not because a plane flies faster than a bird than the plane makes flying look easy. The energy consumption is very different. Energy is the opposite to talent (making things look easy).

If making something difficult look easy is talent, then why is retrieving all the otherwise-to-be-winners shot after shot, making insane passes from 5m behind the BH not talent in your book? Its not easy you see, not anyone at will can do it.

The answer is in your statement. Tennis is about sending the ball on the other side of the net away from your opponent. Taking the ball 5m behind requires again more energy than using your opponent's pace by taking the ball earlier.

As Nadal says himself he "was more injured than Murray, Djoko and federer combined" clearly cause his tennis, as his profusion sweat confirms, is not easy....anything but! I am not sure what you don';t understand there.

by noleisthebest Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:37 pm

Really happy for Rubi!

Such a big result for him, finally he gets a chance to shine.

I didn't see any of it, just a bit vs Dzumhur. Super groundstrokes as well as volleys.
He is improving quickly, and this experience will mean so much to his confidence.

I am not surprised Dolgo lost to Nadal, Nadal is too good a retriever for impatient Dolgo.

How did Fed play vs Kholi, is the footwork/movement getting better?

Don't know how Thiem managed to lose from two sets up...Delpo is a master of creeping back into matches lulling his opponents into false security.

Anyway, so it's Dolgo Nadal QF, I hope Rubi plays his best match ever. diva

Hopefully will be able to see matches from tomorrow onwards.

by noleisthebest Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:40 pm

bogbrush wrote:I still can't work out who Federer would prefer.

Probably Del Potro.

Agree.
Fed loves to make Delpo run.
And doesn't he want revenge for that 2009 final?

by noleisthebest Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:46 pm

Tenez wrote:So can Rublev beat his idol? Nadal

It's going to be a very interesting match. I think he will struggle with the spin as they all do at first.

However Nadal will fear that pace on both sides....

Nadal is not his idol.
Media are pumping it because he trained in Spain with him.

I remember one of his early interviews in which he said he wanted Federer's "flying tennis".

Rubi's got such easy power.

I remember seeing him in Roehampton two years ago, at 17 he was firing bullets with amazing length and low net clearance, painting lines and corners, going dtl...but was a stick insect.

by Tenez Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:46 pm

ideally and very egoistically, I'd love Delpo to give a w.o. Fed needs all the help before his encounter versus...Rublev(just kidding).

by noleisthebest Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:48 pm

Tenez wrote:Goffin still not 100% mouvement. Shame cause a great game.

At least he is back.
He is Nadal's opposite - really unlucky.

by noleisthebest Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:54 pm

summerblues wrote:So, on to the QFs we go.

Carreno Busta the only player to yet drop a set. Here is how many sets each of them have dropped so far:

Carreno Busta - 0
Querrey, Anderson, Rublev - 1
Schwartzman, Nadal, Del Potro - 2
Federer - 4

So, Federer is a standout with 4 dropped sets. However, his sets have in general been relatively quick, so in terms of the total time spent on the court so far he is in the middle of the pack:

Querrey - 6h 36m
Carreno Busta - 8h 29m
Anderson - 8h 47m
Rublev - 9h
Federer - 9h 20m
Schwartzman - 10h
Nadal - 10h 5m
Del Potro - 10h 29m

Here, Querrey is the clear standout - having spent almost two hours less on the court than the next most efficient player.

Querrey is going to choke, so is Anderson.
Busta is a joke. And a boring one.

Schwartzy is ijured, Fed tired, Rubi inexoerienced,

Delpo and Nadal...want the title desperate and look to be the fittest.

All in all, Fed lifts Richard in Sunday! diva

by Tenez Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:02 pm

yes it looks gloomy when you see them all ailing but Rafa....reminds me of the 10 and 13 years!

by AceofDeath Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:58 pm

I can't see Rublev doing much better than Dolgo if Rafa serves decently and interesting to see Schwartzman get this far after he won Davis Cup for Argentina beating the lanky servebot Bubbly

I wanted to see Thiem vs Fed dammit

by AceofDeath Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:59 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:So can Rublev beat his idol? Nadal

It's going to be a very interesting match. I think he will struggle with the spin as they all do at first.

However Nadal will fear that pace on both sides....
Nadal is not his idol.
Media are pumping it because he trained in Spain with him.

I remember one of his early interviews in which he said he wanted Federer's "flying tennis".

Rubi's got such easy power.

I remember seeing him in Roehampton two years ago, at 17 he was firing bullets with amazing length and low net clearance, painting lines and corners, going dtl...but was a stick insect.

It's all in the fast reflexes, same with 19 year old Djokovic when he burst on the scene.

by Slippy Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:54 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:So can Rublev beat his idol? Nadal

It's going to be a very interesting match. I think he will struggle with the spin as they all do at first.

However Nadal will fear that pace on both sides....
Nadal is not his idol.
Media are pumping it because he trained in Spain with him.

I remember one of his early interviews in which he said he wanted Federer's "flying tennis".

Rubi's got such easy power.

I remember seeing him in Roehampton two years ago, at 17 he was firing bullets with amazing length and low net clearance, painting lines and corners, going dtl...but was a stick insect.

"Then also Nadal. He was my idol. I was buying the same clothes as him, all the new collections. I was trying to copy. Safin and Nadal were always my favorite ones."

by noleisthebest Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:11 pm

Naaah, that's just because he's recently been in Spain.
And because he is playing him next.

All players love Fed...it's just that it's so hard to play like him.

I actually met Rubi and had a talk to him and his coach, it was the Serbian link Big Grin

even have a few photos.

back then, he told me he loved Nole...so they all tell you what you want to hear!

But he really loved Fed's "flying play".

Although he enjoys a good bash, his game is quite exciting because of the quality of his shots and his Dragon's fire.

by legendkillar Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:35 pm

Some of the logic on here at times explains in part the stupidity that's rife in the human race. Doh

by Jahu Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Agree, that's why I rarely use logic here Big Grin

by N2D2L Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:50 pm

Rublev is a massive Nadal fan, probably a bigger Nadal fan than me.
Huge pity he's not playing Federer in the QF, this worshipper would have done anything to stop or tire out Federer to ensure his hero and idol has a roll over in the semi.

by noleisthebest Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:18 pm

DECIMA wrote:Rublev is a massive Nadal fan, probably a bigger Nadal fan than me.
Huge pity he's not playing Federer in the QF, this worshipper would have done anything to stop or tire out Federer to ensure his hero and idol has a roll over in the semi.

So long as he beats Nadal, he can be whoever's fan he likes. Cool

by N2D2L Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:19 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
DECIMA wrote:Rublev is a massive Nadal fan, probably a bigger Nadal fan than me.
Huge pity he's not playing Federer in the QF, this worshipper would have done anything to stop or tire out Federer to ensure his hero and idol has a roll over in the semi.
So long as he beats Nadal, he can be whoever's fan he likes.

What a match for Rublev- a win win!
Either he wins or his hero wins. In a way it could help him as no pressure, nothing to lose.

by gallery play Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:47 pm

DECIMA wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
DECIMA wrote:Rublev is a massive Nadal fan, probably a bigger Nadal fan than me.
Huge pity he's not playing Federer in the QF, this worshipper would have done anything to stop or tire out Federer to ensure his hero and idol has a roll over in the semi.
So long as he beats Nadal, he can be whoever's fan he likes.
What a match for Rublev- a win win!
Either he wins or his hero wins. In a way it could help him as no pressure, nothing to lose.

If Rublev goes out there -like you said- like a fan , then i fear he's doomed as a proffessional tennis player.

BTW: Fed plays day in day out against "fans", still has to work for it

by summerblues Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:54 am

Rublev may be Rafa's fan, but he will go out and play to win. I do not give him much chance (too inexperienced and inconsistent still), but he does have the kind of game that could in principle trouble Rafa. Also, he is tall, so should not be too bothered by Rafa's topspin. Finally, I have not found Rafa very convincing this USO (yet). He looked very ordinary in Rds 2&3. I only saw small bits of his match vs Dolgo, and I thought he looked better there, but also Dolgo was very poor, which made it easier for Rafa.

Hoping for a Fed vs Rublev SF.

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:58 am

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:Fair enough. I try to enjoy all forms of talent...that is those who make what it difficult look easy.
There is nothing easy about Dolgo's game. If it was, he would be doing it more consistently which he isn't. His own game is difficult for him to execute. His game isn't even good to look at.
He scores points quite easily actually. He throws his racquet flat taking the ball early. It's not because a plane flies faster than a bird than the plane makes flying look easy. The energy consumption is very different. Energy is the opposite to talent (making things look easy).

If making something difficult look easy is talent, then why is retrieving all the otherwise-to-be-winners shot after shot, making insane passes from 5m behind the BH not talent in your book? Its not easy you see, not anyone at will can do it.
The answer is in your statement. Tennis is about sending the ball on the other side of the net away from your opponent. Taking the ball 5m behind requires again more energy than using your opponent's pace by taking the ball earlier.

As Nadal says himself he "was more injured than Murray, Djoko and federer combined" clearly cause his tennis, as his profusion sweat confirms, is not easy....anything but! I am not sure what you don';t understand there.

The only answer here is that you have already decided who are you talented players and then after that you are going to stick up reasons.

You said talent is making difficult look easy. Chasing near-winners after winners, hitting passes from 5m behind are NOT easy that we all would agree, but Nadal makes it his game and is incredibly successful doing so.

Now lets move goal-post to start what is tennis about? You say its about sending the ball on the other side of the net away from your opponent. Agreed. Then what does it matter if I use opponent's energy taking the ball inside the BL or standing 5m behind and generating my own pace and angle? Tennis is not about using your opponent's energy. Or is it?

Nadal has more energy he spends its, why should he not.

by Tenez Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:41 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:..The only answer here is that you have already decided who are you talented players and then after that you are going to stick up reasons.

It's the other way around I am afraid. Do you think I'd say differently if Federer was playing like Nadal and Nadal like Federer? When there is a new player on teh scene, be it Kyrgios, Thiem or Shap I don;t know them but only through their games do I evaluate their talent and skills. For instance I don;t particularly like Kyrgios but see the talent while I find it harder to see in Zverev for instance.

You said talent is making difficult look easy. Chasing near-winners after winners, hitting passes from 5m behind are NOT easy that we all would agree, but Nadal makes it his game and is incredibly successful doing so.

As I said there are many ways one can be successful. Talent is a very small part of that possible succes..in some players.

Now lets move goal-post to start what is tennis about? You say its about sending the ball on the other side of the net away from your opponent. Agreed. Then what does it matter if I use opponent's energy taking the ball inside the BL or standing 5m behind and generating my own pace and angle? Tennis is not about using your opponent's energy. Or is it?

Well if you want to make things easy, you might as well use the energy carried by the ball. This is why it is common knowledge that talented players take the ball early, at least those talented in eye/hand coordination. If you need to stand 5m back when the ball has slowed down a bit to make your shots safer, you need more energy hence a possible reason for this excessive sweating. But you can't call this "talent".

Nadal has more energy he spends its, why should he not.

We agree with this. However as he says, it makes it harder on his body, hence once again "less talent". Then in 2017 with the science of doping, there is this possibilty that this energy might not even be "his".

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:38 pm

Tenez wrote:Do you think I'd say differently if Federer was playing like Nadal and Nadal like Federer? When there is a new player on teh scene, be it Kyrgios, Thiem or Shap I don;t know them but only through their games do I evaluate their talent and skills. For instance I don;t particularly like Kyrgios but see the talent while I find it harder to see in Zverev for instance.

No. Its not my point. My point is you have assumed that talent in tennis world is linked only to a certain type of game-play. So players who employ that game are talented and the ones who do not are NOT. Same as on the topic of Nadal being mentally strong, you associate a certain style of play with mental strength and hence players who do not have that style are mentally weak. So wrong here.

I have said this before. You are going to be alone in your theories about talent and mental strength in tennis. I have never ever heard any player present/past/ expert /commentators sports jounalists or anyone other than YOU in my entire tennis viewing life who would agree with either of these.

Nadal being less talented that Dolgopolov? Nadal being mentally weak? Jeez!!! D

by naxroy Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:21 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:Do you think I'd say differently if Federer was playing like Nadal and Nadal like Federer? When there is a new player on teh scene, be it Kyrgios, Thiem or Shap I don;t know them but only through their games do I evaluate their talent and skills. For instance I don;t particularly like Kyrgios but see the talent while I find it harder to see in Zverev for instance.

No. Its not my point. My point is you have assumed that talent in tennis world is linked only to a certain type of game-play. So players who employ that game are talented and the ones who do not are NOT. Same as on the topic of Nadal being mentally strong, you associate a certain style of play with mental strength and hence players who do not have that style are mentally weak. So wrong here.

I have said this before. You are going to be alone in your theories about talent and mental strength in tennis. I have never ever heard any player present/past/ expert /commentators sports jounalists or anyone other than YOU in my entire tennis viewing life who would agree with either of these.

Nadal being less talented that Dolgopolov? Nadal being mentally weak? Jeez!!! D

100% agree

by Tenez Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:23 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:No. Its not my point. My point is you have assumed that talent in tennis world is linked only to a certain type of game-play. So players who employ that game are talented and the ones who do not are NOT. Same as on the topic of Nadal being mentally strong, you associate a certain style of play with mental strength and hence players who do not have that style are mentally weak. So wrong here.

Well it is actually quite simple. If you win effortlessly you are talented if you need to labour then you are less talented. Having said that I believe there are/were some very talented retirevers. Coria for instance was an extremely talented player who made retrieving look easy. he was light footed and had a great touch. He could make tons of DFs yet win the match. Wilander to some extend was physically talented and able to cover the court like no other. Nadal is neither....he needs the brawn, the sweat and extra energy. In that respect he does not distinguish himself with his talent but through his amazing fitness.

I have said this before. You are going to be alone in your theories about talent and mental strength in tennis. I have never ever heard any player present/past/ expert /commentators sports jounalists or anyone other than YOU in my entire tennis viewing life who would agree with either of these.

That does not bother me. I don't need the support of the masses to feel right or good. But if you pay attention to details you may notice that commentators and other players say the same thing than I do but of course say it in a nicer way cause they get paid to please the crowds and fans. When Fed talks of Thiem and compares him to Nadal as "hard workers different than me", then you have to interpret it in a very specific way.

Nadal being less talented that Dolgopolov? Nadal being mentally weak? Jeez!!! D

Nadal is more successful! that's true. what makes him more successful is pretty clear to me and all commentators. He is extremely fit!

by noleisthebest Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:21 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:Do you think I'd say differently if Federer was playing like Nadal and Nadal like Federer? When there is a new player on teh scene, be it Kyrgios, Thiem or Shap I don;t know them but only through their games do I evaluate their talent and skills. For instance I don;t particularly like Kyrgios but see the talent while I find it harder to see in Zverev for instance.

No. Its not my point. My point is you have assumed that talent in tennis world is linked only to a certain type of game-play. So players who employ that game are talented and the ones who do not are NOT. Same as on the topic of Nadal being mentally strong, you associate a certain style of play with mental strength and hence players who do not have that style are mentally weak. So wrong here.

I have said this before. You are going to be alone in your theories about talent and mental strength in tennis. I have never ever heard any player present/past/ expert /commentators sports jounalists or anyone other than YOU in my entire tennis viewing life who would agree with either of these.

Nadal being less talented that Dolgopolov? Nadal being mentally weak? Jeez!!! D

Well, I share the same opinion.

Takent equals hand to eye coordination.
You need it in every soort.

In tennis it's reflected in how early and consistently a player can take the ball.

Nadal stands as far as possible, so he isn't that talented.

Simple as that.

Kim Kardashian seems to be comsodered beautiful by many, just like Nadal seems to be talented by many.

But that doesn't mean she is beautiful and he is takented.

However many millions would disagree.

by Daniel Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:56 pm

naxroy wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:Do you think I'd say differently if Federer was playing like Nadal and Nadal like Federer? When there is a new player on teh scene, be it Kyrgios, Thiem or Shap I don;t know them but only through their games do I evaluate their talent and skills. For instance I don;t particularly like Kyrgios but see the talent while I find it harder to see in Zverev for instance.

No. Its not my point. My point is you have assumed that talent in tennis world is linked only to a certain type of game-play. So players who employ that game are talented and the ones who do not are NOT. Same as on the topic of Nadal being mentally strong, you associate a certain style of play with mental strength and hence players who do not have that style are mentally weak. So wrong here.

I have said this before. You are going to be alone in your theories about talent and mental strength in tennis. I have never ever heard any player present/past/ expert /commentators sports jounalists or anyone other than YOU in my entire tennis viewing life who would agree with either of these.

Nadal being less talented that Dolgopolov? Nadal being mentally weak? Jeez!!! D

100% agree

Me too. But I don't expect Tenez is ever going to find time to change his mind on anything. I'm giving up bothering :P Just gonna enjoy the tennis. And NITB above is the same.... Nadal has won 15 slams... but he isn't talented? What a total nonsense.

by Daniel Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:04 am

Daniel wrote:
summerblues wrote:Great for Delpo. Perfect for Fed too (if he can win tonight). He would get Delpo, and a tired one too.

I don't think so. Del Potro isnt like ordinary players and Ive heard this before and seen him come out playing great. He's the worst player fed could face in QF at this point.

I reiterate.

by Daniel Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:05 am

Daniel wrote:
Tenez wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Who would Feferer prefer?
A tired delpo over a Duracell Thiem any day.

And your evidence for Delpo being tired is....?

Your evidence was?

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:04 pm

Tenez wrote:Well it is actually quite simple. If you win effortlessly you are talented if you need to labour then you are less talented

IS it? Let see then. If winning effortless is the absolute measure of tennis talent then the most talented tennis player in the last 20 years is Ivo Karlovic. He is the ones who perhaps spends the least possible amount of energy on court regardless of win or loss. He is the GOAT when it comes to tennis talent in open era. Now how does this argument sound? Silly? right, coz that's what it actually is.

And Do you realize that you have been changing your definitions of talent with every conversation? Here is a recap:

First: making difficult look easy,
then tennis is about sending the ball back away from opponent.
Then Energy is opposite to talent, talent is about winning effortlessly.

Tenez wrote:Coria for instance was an extremely talented player who made retrieving look easy.

Did he? How many times has he beaten Fed the ultimate shotmaker using his easy retrieving talent on his best surface Clay? A BIG 0. Coria was about same age as Fed and back then Fed wasn't even a force on caly.
Comare the above results with what nadal can do to shotmakers on clay retrieving balls after balls( take any shotmaker not just Fed ). Other than once ( Soderling) not a single shotmaker has been able to beat his retrieving. No body comes even close to nadal when its about retrieving. Nobody. he is wall on clay.

Tenez wrote:Nadal is more successful! that's true. what makes him more successful is pretty clear to me and all commentators. He is extremely fit!

Really? All commentators? Bring me a few if you can, who says that Nadal success if all about his fitness. I bet you won't get any. Because this theory of yours is plain insane. But I can get you scores saying Nadal is extremely talented tennis player.

by Tenez Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:30 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:Well it is actually quite simple. If you win effortlessly you are talented if you need to labour then you are less talented

IS it? Let see then. If winning effortless is the absolute measure of tennis talent then the most talented tennis player in the last 20 years is Ivo Karlovic. He is the ones who perhaps spends the least possible amount of energy on court regardless of win or loss. He is the GOAT when it comes to tennis talent in open era. Now how does this argument sound? Silly? right, coz that's what it actually is.

Good point. Karlo has a huge talent. He is very tall and therefore that give him facility in winning points on his serve. However being tall is an hindrance to move around the court hence he needs to labour more than other to break serve. There is nothing wrong with my statement. Yet he is the oldest player in the top 100 so he must have some form of talent. Let's see where nadal is at 37.

And Do you realize that you have been changing your definitions of talent with every conversation? Here is a recap:

First: making difficult look easy,
then tennis is about sending the ball back away from opponent.
Then Energy is opposite to talent, talent is about winning effortlessly.

No. There is no discrepancy there. It all holds up. If anything it's bizarre you cannot see the link.....though the middle statement does not quite define talent but tennis.

Did he? How many times has he beaten Fed the ultimate shotmaker using his easy retrieving talent on his best surface Clay? A BIG 0. Coria was about same age as Fed and back then Fed wasn't even a force on caly.
Comare the above results with what nadal can do to shotmakers on clay retrieving balls after balls( take any shotmaker not just Fed ). Other than once ( Soderling) not a single shotmaker has been able to beat his retrieving. No body comes even close to nadal when its about retrieving. Nobody. he is wall on clay

Did I say that Coria was more talented than Federer? Once again your logic fail I am afraid. I am not saying that being talented means more success. You can win by being physically fitter, like you can serve more aces by being taller, or having a bigger arm. You can defend better by having stronger legs. Why are you mixing success with talent???
Coria did not beat Federer but managed to get 3 close matches. For someone who could not serve that's pretty good.

Really? All commentators? Bring me a few if you can, who says that Nadal success if all about his fitness. I bet you won't get any. Because this theory of yours is plain insane. But I can get you scores saying Nadal is extremely talented tennis player.

Some commentators even compared Murray's talent with Federer's. Whatever the commentators say, Nadal is uncapable to win without being 100%, in fact he chooses not to even enter when not 100%. All other players play through injury.

by Daniel Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:45 am

Karlo has a huge talent.

The only thing accurate about that sentence is the fact that Karlo is huge at something. And it's his height. He's a lumbering wreck of a player. He has talent - All pros do... but compared to Nadal? He's about as far as I am from the moon away!

Yet he is the oldest player in the top 100 so he must have some form of talent.

Nope. He just has a huge serve - gifted to him largely by his height - which will net you many sets. If you can't be broken, it's all down to a tie break. All Ivo does is remind us how much a serve matters. If Ivo was under 6 feet, he'd be long gone and never would have made the top 20. But, of course, I am clueless, and you are the GOD, so what do I know? Doh

by summerblues Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:14 am

Tenez wrote:Karlo has a huge talent.

by summerblues Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:15 am

summerblues wrote:Hoping for a Fed vs Rublev SF.

by summerblues Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:18 am

Daniel wrote:
Daniel wrote:
summerblues wrote:Great for Delpo. Perfect for Fed too (if he can win tonight). He would get Delpo, and a tired one too.

I don't think so. Del Potro isnt like ordinary players and Ive heard this before and seen him come out playing great. He's the worst player fed could face in QF at this point.

I reiterate.

I think Fed lost mostly because he was playing very poorly, not so much because Delpo was that great (though Delpo was playing ok). I now expect Rafa to beat Delpo quite easily.

But I definitely hope that you are right and I am wrong. If Delpo manages to win the title with not much of a BH, I will be astonished. And good for him if he can do that.

by Daniel Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:15 am

Delpo was playing more than ok.... look at his serve stats for starters. It was phenomenal.... His backhand isn't terrible either. It's being made out by commentators to be like a club player's and it just isn't.

by Tenez Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:07 am

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:Karlo has a huge talent.

It is a talent. It is a physical talent and I'd say the same of Coria, Borg or Wilander.

by Tenez Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:10 am

I agree. From what I saw delpo has not been impressive so far. I'd be extremely surprised if he were to win tonight.

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:53 am

Tenez wrote:Good point. Karlo has a huge talent. He is very tall and therefore that give him facility in winning points on his serve.

What is all this? We are not talking about does he have huge talent or not. Stay on the point, if you can..You said winning effortless means more talent, and winning with effort and labour means less. And NO one is as effortless in his matches as Karlovic. So by your logic he is the most talented player. Now see how it sounds.

Tenez wrote:Did I say that Coria was more talented than Federer?

Did I say that you said so? Keep track of the conversations instead of jumping to say my logic failed. We will see whose logic fails in the end.

You said Coria was more talented at retrieving than Nadal. Thats' where I brought out how Fed was beating him on clay, but couldn't beat Nadal because Fed just couldn't hit past Nadal as he could retrieve so many near winners after winners. The same Fed could most certainly get those balls past Coria. So who is better skilled at retrieving Nadal or Coria? Look at nadal's results against shotmakers comapred to Coria on any surface.

Or you'll just bring back your old rag 'fitness' into every result.

Tenez wrote:Some commentators even compared Murray's talent with Federer's. Whatever the commentators say, Nadal is uncapable to win without being 100%, in fact he chooses not to even enter when not 100%.

Can you stay on topic for once please. We are not talking about those commentators. You bring out quotes from commentators who said Nadal's success is all about fitness and no talent. You said 'ALL commentators' so why is it hard to find one.

Is it possible for anyone to know he is 100% fit not? Can you measure your fitness in terms of % ?

100% fit doesn't even makes any sense, no one ever is. And Nadal HAS entered tournaments and retired in the middle. Last year RG 2016.

Tenez wrote:All other players play through injury.

Where do you even get this?

by Tenez Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:48 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:What is all this? We are not talking about does he have huge talent or not. Stay on the point, if you can..You said winning effortless means more talent, and winning with effort and labour means less. And NO one is as effortless in his matches as Karlovic. So by your logic he is the most talented player. Now see how it sounds.

What don't you understand? He is talented at serving.....he is not that much at retrieving and rallying.....and tennis is not about serving alone. I am surprised you do not understand this simple fact. It almost seems you are purposely trying not to understand.

Tenez wrote:Did I say that Coria was more talented than Federer?

Did I say that you said so? Keep track of the conversations instead of jumping to say my logic failed. We will see whose logic fails in the end.

You said Coria was more talented at retrieving than Nadal. Thats' where I brought out how Fed was beating him on clay, but couldn't beat Nadal because Fed just couldn't hit past Nadal as he could retrieve so many near winners after winners. The same Fed could most certainly get those balls past Coria. So who is better skilled at retrieving Nadal or Coria? Look at nadal's results against shotmakers comapred to Coria on any surface.

So ok...let's challenge your logic:
If according to you Nadal is more talented than Coria at retireving, then it means that Coria might be fitter and mentally stronger than Nadal, yet he would lose cause less talented, is that right? That's a perfectly legitimate statement based on your logic above...in other words...absurd. Being more talented does not mean more success.....how many times do we need to repeat this?

Or you'll just bring back your old rag 'fitness' into every result.

It's an easy to dismiss what makes Nadal so unique in his sport. If you don't see the physical aspect, then clearly I am wasting my time.

Can you stay on topic for once please. We are not talking about those commentators. You bring out quotes from commentators who said Nadal's success is all about fitness and no talent. You said 'ALL commentators' so why is it hard to find one.
I have told you again that commentators are saying the same thing than I do but with simply better words instead of using my straightforward language. No-one woudl say all about fitness and no talent....not even me. If I say it it is comparatively: Like they are all fit and talented...it's the ratios I am talking about. Here is an article which describe the general views of journalists.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/09/rafael-nadal-is-the-leonardo-da-vinci-of-tennis/279383/

In particular:
Unlike Federer, Nadal has more frequently conjured up images of sweaty, fast-and-loose iconoclasm and brute force among sports journalists. In the years since his inaugural French Open victory in 2005, and most noticeably in the first few years after, he drew comparisons to pirates, cavemen, bulldogs, bulls, bulls, more bulls, bulls in china shops, bulls in Federer’s china shop, and, um, “Apaches.”
Or federer saying nadal plays with higher margins....or being 1D....if you analyse what that means...you come to my conclusions. It's actually a fact only fans don't want to see.

by Daniel Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:47 pm

Tenez wrote:I agree. From what I saw delpo has not been impressive so far. I'd be extremely surprised if he were to win tonight.

lol... 80% first serves in for huge sections isn't impressive? Winning almost 100% of first serve points v Federer isn't impressive? Banging winner after winner against Federer isn't impressive? Admit it. You didn't watch it. You tuned out at 1-0 Del.

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