Racism- Is football doing enough to kick it out?

2012. The 21st century.

Racism is meant to be a thing of the past. A historical artefact, which has been long overcome by the good of society.
But no.

Here we are again, and we have controversy after controversy.
Last year former England John Terry was accused of calling QPR defender Anton Ferdinand a black c*nt. A youtube video was produced, but Terry created a fantastic story defending himself, claiming he was just repeating the racist words back to as a question. This is the evidence:

Anyway overall I think it was pretty clear from the beginning JT was guilty;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0z_Y2dk-aQ

To make it clear, at the start JT is calling AF a f*cking knobhead (which he admits), then Cole blocks the camera. Then JT says the words 'f*cking black c*nt.'
We are meant to believe in the moment Cole blocked the camera's view from JT, Terry said the words 'did you call me?'
Total and absolute nonsense.

John Terry stuck to his story in court earlier this year, and the court could not prove him guilty, so hence he was not arrested. The fact is the camera blocked Terry's mouth, and in English court unless they are 100% sure they cannot charge. The magistrate did express his displeasure of the case saying in his report John Terry's story was 'inherently unlikely,' but he had no option but to call him not guilty.
An independent hearing then conducted an investigation, and they found Terry guilty of racist abuse. They banned Terry for 4 matches, and in a 50 page document explained how Terry's story was clearly constructed and made up, breaking it down bit by bit.
Finally yesterday John Terry backed down and apologised to Ferdinand and his family for the offence he had caused.

But this provokes bigger questions. How could Terry, the England leader at the time, conduct himself like this.

And then we had the incident in Serbia earlier this week. All throughout the match there was monkey chanting as soon as a black player touched the ball. English youngster Danny Rose, who is black, and missiles pelted at him and a torrent of abuse throughout the match, which left him distraught after the match had finished.
Now it's up to FIFA to see what punishments they decide to press on the Serbian FA.
The Serbian FA meanwhile were pathetic in their response. They tried to pass the blame onto Rose despite insurmountable video evidence, and admission from the the Serbian supporters.

So what steps do you think FIFA/UEFA should take to end racism in football?
Personally I believe Serbia should be banned for the next 6 years, this is not the first time their fans have got in trouble (also rioted during the Italy game a few years ago), and it seems the Serbian FA are doing everything they can to avoid having to act against racism. Sam Allardyce said today in the evening standard that he would like to see Serbia banned for a considerable length of time, but he did not see it happening as FIFA's stance against racism is not strong enough.

What do you think?

I couldn't care less about football these days.

BTW, are you Chinese or Idian Amri?

noleisthebest wrote:BTW, are you Chinese or Idian Amri?

Indian.

noleisthebest wrote:I couldn't care less about football these days.

This article isn't really about football, it's about racism mainly.

not my kind of topic, sorry Amri.

No worries NITB

"Is football doing enough to kick racism out"

How can you expect to do that when football promotes such tribalism
This club fan mentality is like racism,as long muppets like alex furgason fuel on hatred,the fans wont know were to draw the line

Well there is tribalism between clubs in football, no doubt about it, and that's what I really don't like it.
But I think you are wrong in saying that it necessarily goes hand in hand with racism. Since the 1970's the tribalism between clubs has remained, but racism has got significantly less.
The authorities can take harsher action against racism, if they want to stamp it out totally.

And I seriously don't understand your line on Sir Alex Ferguson.
This year he made a specific pledge to try and stop the tribalism surrounding the Hillsbrough and Munich disasters:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19602884
Not a sign of a man who is trying to 'fuel hatred' at all.
Sir Alex has also taken a stance against racism, so your idea he is to blame for it (which is based on nothing) is silly:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-manager-sir-alex-1389392

The thing is if you teach your children its ok to discriminate against someone else for any reason then where do you or they draw the line?
Its very likely that a kid who grows up in a household that supports Chelsea will become a Chelsea fan too,out of shear influence
The segregation,discrimination and hatred that club football breeds is really no different then racism
Hatred for rival clubs and teams thats fuelled by grumpy old men like furgason who like to hold grudges wears off on the clubs fans when saying things like " I wouldnt sell Real Madrid a virus" or "our noisy neighbours" or referring to a rival team as "scum of the earth" always implying they are the " arch enemy" and fans should know where their alliances lies.The ignorant fans then out of loyalty to the club and the stupid pack mentality,take the hatred on board too believing that thats what being a true fan is all about,that if youre not United fan,youre automatically the enemy

When you hate someone or something for no real reason,its easy to just hate them for being different,and then tear them and their differences down in a derogatory way to build yourself up.This is especially true during intense moments when the person or team youre hating wins and the team/player you support lost.The ripple effect of being a sore loser then leads to name calling, insults or plain racism-
A true football fan will embrace the game and all the players,not hypocritically discriminate against a player or another football fan based solely on the fact that they play or support another club.Its so pathetic not to mention funny how you see football fans mock a player from another club but then you see them supporting that specific player and singing their praises when the player is representing England,when just a few weeks earlier they hated or berated the player with a passion for simply playing for another team
Have you been on the football forums recently Ameritia?
The last time I was,was when Spain won the Euro cup in the summer,the boards were inundated with pictures of Mario Balotteli eating or being surrounded with a crate of bananas,mostly posted by Spanish football fans.So much easier vent your hatred or racism anonymously online

This kind of gloating and derogatory digs and insults comes from club football culture,where hatred,discrimination and segregation thrives and is celebrated
Its not enough for them to celebrate their team winning,they revel in the disappointment of the losing team far more

Racism doesnt just exist between different ethnicities,it exists within ethnicities too
Discriminating against someone from France or Germany solely based on their nationality is racist too
Further more,other countries in Europe arent as multi cultured as the U.K which automatically makes them far less tolerant because they have never had to be,as a result no one can ever accuse them of being racist
So while you may think a lot has been done to combat racism,you fail to see the bigger picture,just because there seems to be a lot less discrimination towards players of different ethnicities doesnt mean the over all problem is significantly less
Preventing people from saying racist things doesnt stop them from thinking racist things,Terry just highlighted thoughts that I am sure many football fans were thinking at the same time
Perhaps it was just said in the heat of the moment and there was no malice intended but like the saying goes a drunk mans words are a sober mans thoughts

I for one am glad that disgrace of an excuse was finally disciplined,Terry walks around thinking he is above the law,forever involved in shameful scandals and always in the papers for the wrong reasons.He deserves to be made an example of,even if he is hypothetically innocent,him,his drug dealing father and shoplifting mother and grand mother have done enough wrong to make up for it

Veejay, frankly on the topic of tribalism in football that is an excellent post.
You've highlighted in detail how football fans have 'hatred' against the opposing teams, and how this seems to be morally accepted in football. I whole-heartedly agree with you on that front

However I do think they can try to eliminate racism, even if the tribalism continues. One clear proof of this is that since the 70's I don't feel tribalism has really decreased, there is still much hatred among fans of different rival teams.
However since then racism has been decreased, and this I believe is due to raised awareness and pressure from the authorities. However it has not gone totally, and I believe the authorities can do more to stamp it out. As you said Terry was a clear case, imo he should have received a 10 game ban.

Lastly I'm afraid I disagree with your singling out of Sir Alex Feguson:

Hatred for rival clubs and teams thats fuelled by grumpy old men like furgason who like to hold grudges wears off on the clubs fans when saying things like " I wouldnt sell Real Madrid a virus" or "our noisy neighbours" or referring to a rival team as "scum of the earth"

Well firstly this tribalism has existed long before Ferguson came into power, he hardly started it.
Secondly his reference to Real Madrid was when they tried to tap up Ronaldo, there is no real huge hatred between Real Madrid and United. I think he was annoyed at the fact they tried to tap up Ronaldo rather than a call for arms against Real.
Manchester United have had a long derby-rivalry long before Ferguson called them 'noisy neighbours'; once again I don't think that really made a difference to the tribalism at all.
He never called any rival team 'scum of the earth.' If he had said that, then you could argue he had created and strengthened the feeling of tribalism.
In-fact Ferguson has actually talked about tribalsiam:
http://www.totalfootballmag.com/premier-league/sir-alex-ferguson-demands-tasteless-chants-to-stop/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19602884
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-manager-sir-alex-1389392

So overall I believe tribalism is a huge problem in football, but I think racism can be stopped even with the tribalism.
One example was the way football has changed since the 70's, tribalism has stayed while racism has decreased.
Also during Serbia's game with England, it was only when a black player was on the ball that the crowd made chicken noises. The Serbian crowd only targeted the black players of the England team in their racist taunting, so I think although tribalism indirectly leads to racism as you rightly say, we can make extra efforts to stamp out racism (eg ban Serbia for 5 years to make an example), while battling tribalism will be a much harder near impossible project altogether.

I agree with you,if anything the tribal culture in football has grown since the 70's,theres a lot more money thats pumped into the sport which helps generate interest,as a result the spectators place a lot more value and importance on the sport and its titles.I can understand passion as much as anyone else,but football fans take it to an unhealthy level and have lost touch with reality.
There are more important things in life then football and managing/coaching the England squad is not the most important job in England neither is winning the champions league or World Cup the be all and end all of reasons to feel proud
I also agree that I believe its possible to be competitive as part of group without having to discriminate,segregate or focusing all your hatred towards your teams rivals,but the problem with tribalism and pack mentality is that is creates a sort of "apartheid" in the sport and while that may not be out right racism,its a slippery slope where segregation is not only acceptable,it necessary for tribalism to function.Bottom line is it opens the doors for discrimination, purely not based on ethnicity yet,but still discrimination is discrimination,its the fundamental essence of what racism is all about
I grew up in South Africa,towards the end of apartheid years and through the whole change of the ANC coming into power
South Africa is a strange place,everything there is about skin colour,the very first thing youre ever judged on is the colour of your skin is.Its so bad that its not even about ethnicity,its literally all about skin colour cause coloured people arent considered "black" and "coloured people ( mixed race) think they are a more superior race to the blacks
So growing up there gave me a pretty good understanding about racism.

Racism is taught,no one is born racist,people in South Africa are that way cause they dont know any better,if they do know better they dont embrace individualism,but instead opt to nurture the chip they have on their shoulder so racism gets passed down from generation to generation
Where as here in the U.K especially in London,you see people from different ethnicities living peacefully together,you see kids from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds playing together,growing up together,playing sport together etc.The more multi cultured our society becomes the more tolerant or open to difference society evolves over time
Kids dont see skin colour as a big enough reason to discriminate,for the most part its not even an issue cause living in such a multi cultured society is completely normal to them
This is the main reason why it may seem like the U.K has come such long way since its Imperial days
There isnt really much the authorities can do to combat racism apart from awareness,cause as I said before trying to prevent people from saying racist things doesnt stop anyone from thinking racist thoughts
It all starts at home,whats installed into you by your parents,which is why I feel that its important as an adult or parent to set a consistent example for the youth,rather then saying one form of discrimination is wrong and another form is perfectly acceptable

Im not trying to put the full blame of Fergie by singling him out,all this was there way before him,but you cant ignore the fact that he does add fuel to the fire with some of his comments.He is the most vocal cub manager when it comes to proving theres "bad blood" between clubs
While I completely believe the possibility of everything youre saying he has done and is doing to try and eradicate discrimination in the sport,being in the public eye makes it almost impossible to control everything that comes out of your mouth.People often say things without really thinking,unfortunately for him,whatever he says will most likely be documented by the media
His words and opinions does influence people but that doesnt make him responsible for the actions of others

About the Serbian game,as I mentioned before many European countries aren't as multi cultured as the U.K.They have never had to be tolerant and no one can ever accuse them of being racist cause they are the overwhelming majority in population,theres no one to conflict with.I can bet you that if any of their societies were forced to become more multi cultured then you'd see a racist streak come out in them that they didnt even know they had
Because they have never had to deal with the ugly side of racism,ignorance is bliss,they have no understanding of the repercussions of their actions and targeting the players of colour is specifically done to unnerve them and together with the rest of the pack focus all their hatred towards an easy target
The movie " American History X" is an excellent example of how sowing the seeds of what may seem like "innocent" discrimination at the time, can actually end up completely destroying peoples lives

Veejay wrote:I agree with you,if anything the tribal culture in football has grown since the 70's,theres a lot more money thats pumped into the sport which helps generate interest,as a result the spectators place a lot more value and importance on the sport and its titles.I can understand passion as much as anyone else,but football fans take it to an unhealthy level and have lost touch with reality.
There are more important things in life then football and managing/coaching the England squad is not the most important job in England neither is winning the champions league or World Cup the be all and end all of reasons to feel proud
I also agree that I believe its possible to be competitive as part of group without having to discriminate,segregate or focusing all your hatred towards your teams rivals,but the problem with tribalism and pack mentality is that is creates a sort of "apartheid" in the sport and while that may not be out right racism,its a slippery slope where segregation is not only acceptable,it necessary for tribalism to function.Bottom line is it opens the doors for discrimination, purely not based on ethnicity yet,but still discrimination is discrimination,its the fundamental essence of what racism is all about
I grew up in South Africa,towards the end of apartheid years and through the whole change of the ANC coming into power
South Africa is a strange place,everything there is about skin colour,the very first thing youre ever judged on is the colour of your skin is.Its so bad that its not even about ethnicity,its literally all about skin colour cause coloured people arent considered "black" and "coloured people ( mixed race) think they are a more superior race to the blacks
So growing up there gave me a pretty good understanding about racism.

Racism is taught,no one is born racist,people in South Africa are that way cause they dont know any better,if they do know better they dont embrace individualism,but instead opt to nurture the chip they have on their shoulder so racism gets passed down from generation to generation
Where as here in the U.K especially in London,you see people from different ethnicities living peacefully together,you see kids from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds playing together,growing up together,playing sport together etc.The more multi cultured our society becomes the more tolerant or open to difference society evolves over time
Kids dont see skin colour as a big enough reason to discriminate,for the most part its not even an issue cause living in such a multi cultured society is completely normal to them
This is the main reason why it may seem like the U.K has come such long way since its Imperial days
There isnt really much the authorities can do to combat racism apart from awareness,cause as I said before trying to prevent people from saying racist things doesnt stop anyone from thinking racist thoughts
It all starts at home,whats installed into you by your parents,which is why I feel that its important as an adult or parent to set a consistent example for the youth,rather then saying one form of discrimination is wrong and another form is perfectly acceptable

Im not trying to put the full blame of Fergie by singling him out,all this was there way before him,but you cant ignore the fact that he does add fuel to the fire with some of his comments.He is the most vocal cub manager when it comes to proving theres "bad blood" between clubs
While I completely believe the possibility of everything youre saying he has done and is doing to try and eradicate discrimination in the sport,being in the public eye makes it almost impossible to control everything that comes out of your mouth.People often say things without really thinking,unfortunately for him,whatever he says will most likely be documented by the media
His words and opinions does influence people but that doesnt make him responsible for the actions of others

About the Serbian game,as I mentioned before many European countries aren't as multi cultured as the U.K.They have never had to be tolerant and no one can ever accuse them of being racist cause they are the overwhelming majority in population,theres no one to conflict with.I can bet you that if any of their societies were forced to become more multi cultured then you'd see a racist streak come out in them that they didnt even know they had
Because they have never had to deal with the ugly side of racism,ignorance is bliss,they have no understanding of the repercussions of their actions and targeting the players of colour is specifically done to unnerve them and together with the rest of the pack focus all their hatred towards an easy target
The movie " American History X" is an excellent example of how sowing the seeds of what may seem like "innocent" discrimination at the time, can actually end up completely destroying peoples lives

That is an absolutely fantastic post.

More on this topic from Rugby Union player Martin Offiah on this issue:

Martin Offiah believes football can deal with its problem with racism by becoming a more family-friendly sport like rugby league.
The former wing, who scored 501 tries during a 14-year career, admitted he was abused when he started out in league during the late 1980s, but said he was not aware of incidents now.
"Rugby league is seen as more of a family sport," Offiah told BBC Sport.
“
I recently had a conversation with a Hull fan on Twitter, who apologised for spitting on me about 20 years ago, which I found quite touching
”
Martin Offiah
"Perhaps more women at matches would give football a different atmosphere."
He added: "What you hear from crowds at rugby league matches is totally different than what's acceptable in football. In football, it's not only racial abuse, but it's chants about people's mothers and girlfriends, etc.
"Those crowds are predominantly made up of young to middle-aged males. We all know that when men get together the language is always going to be more juicy."
Offiah, who also played rugby union, is regarded as one of the greatest ever players in league.
He plied his trade for six clubs in England and Australia, gaining the most success during a five-year period at Wigan, where he won five league championships and four Challenge Cups.
The London-born wing, nicknamed 'Chariots' after the film Chariots of Fire, frightened the opposition with his explosive pace and was known for his showmanship, which was not universally appreciated.

"I started out in boarding school in London where I played rugby union," continued the 45-year-old. "Then I went north to play a pretty tribal game called rugby league in the 1980s.
"I took to it like a duck to water on the pitch, but that didn't endear me to opposition fans. Because I was a bit of an exuberant player it attracted a lot negative attention. I had to deal with it, accept it, to overcome it and be successful.
"I had bananas thrown at me and was abused. I was spat on at different grounds.
"I recently had a conversation with a Hull fan on Twitter, who apologised for spitting on me about 20 years ago, which I found quite touching."
The fallout from the John Terry case and the recent alleged abuse suffered by England Under-21 defender Danny Rose in Serbia have once again put racism in football back in the spotlight.
Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand was the most high-profile of more than 30 players not to wear a T-shirt promoting anti-racism campaign Kick it Out last weekend.
It was reported that his refusal was in reaction to a perceived lack of action about racism in his sport.
"Some of the stuff that's happened in football, if that had happened in any other part of society then it probably would have been dealt with far more severely," added Offiah.
"Maybe the likes of Ferdinand and the other footballers who didn't wear those T-shirts felt a little disillusioned.
"They maybe saw the establishment and Kick It Out as one of the same and felt the message has not been sent out as fiercely as it should be."

Interesting article,not sure I agree but some food for thought


Nathaniel Tapley says the law courts shouldn't be preoccupied by what we think but must punish those who give voice to racist views.


Yesterday, I confess, I breathed a mild sigh of relief when a jury in the High Court ruled that Frankie Boyle was not a 'racist comedian', and ordered The Mirror to pay £54,000 in damages for calling him one.

Boyle argued that expressing racist views in order to satirise their content was not, in itself, racist. As someone who spends a lot of his time performing an act in which a character I portray expresses racist, sexist, and homophobic views in order to satirise them, I'm quite relieved that the courts can see that this doesn't make you a racist.

Relieved, although I'm not sure it's necessarily true.

Because it's not a distinction I have much time for when John Terry makes it. In his case, he argues that saying racist things doesn't necessarily make him a racist, and when he does he has the full-throated support of much of the footballing community (as I am reliably informed they are called).

"So here's a thing. Let's stop worrying about who is a racist, and concentrate on those people who do racist things."


We live in a culture where being a racist is seen as distinct and different to doing racist things. In much the same way, people can end a killing spree knowing in their hearts that they are good people with a special relationship with their God. In much the same way, we say: “He can't have done those terrible things to children, look at all the good work he did for charity.”

We make distinctions between the things people are, and the things people do.

So a lot of people feel free to do and say racist things, safe in the knowledge that they aren't racists.

How could they be? They don't feel racist in their hearts.

Yes, I tell the odd racist joke at a party, but it's okay because I'm clearly not a racist.

The EDL says it's not racist, despite the fact that its members spend time on Facebook saying racist things, committing arson attacks on mosques, and giving Nazi salutes.

Who is and isn't racist is a distraction. Let's focus on those who do and say racist things.

"Let's not heap blame on those quiet racists who have the common decency to keep it to themselves."


Frankie Boyle gave evidence of his work with anti-racist charities as proof of his lack of racism but this only complicates things further for the quiet, inactive racist. If someone who harbours deep hatreds for people of other races never says anything. but does a lot of good work for anti-racism groups, are they still a racist?

How about wearing an armband? Is that enough?

http://news.uk.msn.com/socialvoices/blogpost.aspx?post=5ec9dd1a-38e5-42e7-9e4f-c8532ee87578

I have not read anything here but I have a question:

As racism is a common feeling shared by many, is racism expressed worse than racism kept inside? And if the answer is yes, how long can those racist sentiments be kept inside before they are released fanatically?

Tenez if we allow people a free run to be racist, they will display it more and more.
As more people are allowed to express their racism, others will be 'converted' to their racist views, and hence there will be further racism in society.
The nutters, irrelevant of whether they are allowed to express it or not, will always be fanatic.

Or it can be discussed, reasoned and kept within limits as we do here.

How exactly are we going to keep it within our limits?

Vee, your point about tribalism could be a good one but sport in general including teh Olympics is about tribalism, albeit at a grander scale.

This sport tribalism can actually be a good form of expressing a moderate form of racism, though here it's more a patriotic feeling more than "race". When the Greeks invented the Olympics it was probably with the intent to channel the energy of the youth which otherwise might have looked for wars.

And more importantly one can be proud being from Manchester or North London without feeling any particular discrimination towards the other regions or countries.

I would say in general the question about racism is a non issue for me. I am more concerned by people's stupidity than racist comments. For instance I don;t mind someone expressing clearly his views on some nations as long as he can also see what;s wrong at home. I however have more of a problem with those who are stupid enough to believe the problems always come from abroad. So for me there are smart and not so smart people...the rest is less relevant.

I agree with you Tenez,I just wouldnt call it "expressing a moderate form of racism".I call it heathly compeition.Theres nothing wrong with a bit of healthy competition,compition is vital for our society because it gives people the initiative to strive to be the best they can be,its how the human race progress,becomes better,more knowledgeable and achieves greater things
I also dont think that there is anything wrong with being patriotic,being proud of where you come from and supporting those who come from the same place that you do.I dont see anything wrong in expressing that while supporting sport.I am actually very pro that cause its what makes an event like the Olympics so special,not only cause it brings people from all over the world together in peace,set their differences aside and partake is some healthy competition,it also gives us a chance to embrance the varitey of cultures the world has to offer
The Olympics to me is very different in comparison to the World Cup
I dont think I have ever seen a nation embrace the Olympics like this Brits did this past summer,everyone wanted to be a part of it,people from all kinds of ethnicities and walks of life all came together to celebrate sport and show the world a bit of what it means to to be British.I dont think many British people even understood what British culture was until the Olympics proved to everyone what people from this country are made of
The Olympics may be country competing against each other but everyone cheers and supports everyone,everyone honours,respects and celebrates the winner's victory with them no matter who or where that athlete originates from,sport is celebrated while giving different countries a reason to feel proud and inspired.The Olympics welcomes other nations with open arms,theres no discrimation,its living proof that the world can live together in harmony
The World Cup to me is the complete opposite,its nothing but discimination especailly among the big European football countries.They take it to another level.Fights break out,cars are smashed,hooligan behaviour,instults are thrown in a derogatory way to tear another nationality down while building your own up and theres nothing but gloating when winning,like when Spain knocked France out of the Euro this summer the football forums were flooded with pictures of Nadal whiping his ass with a French flag at RG.They dont celebrate the victory,they revel in the disappointment and misery of another countries loss
Where the Olympcis brings the best in out mankind,football seems to bring the very worst out ( generally,at least it seems that way to me) Theres a lot of discrimation against other football fans based purely on them being a different nationality and therefore the "enemy".In my opinion thats racism,thats what I disgree with and that sort of behaviour is brewed in club football

Interesting but what is the difference between teh Olympics and Football? Both are about sports. So the difference is actually the people it attracts. And that is why in my post my main concern is not racism. It's people's stupidity. I am not sure how to define it very well but teh more someone is educated the better he can express how he sees the differences in races/countries. If one is a bit thick, it's way of expressing it is going to be violent, agressive and will lack essentially the introspection needed to put the differences with his race in an objective manner.

If we are honest with ourselves we cannot deny having all some form of discrimination when addressing the traits of a population. It's clear that my own character /nature will automatically make me get along with some better than other nationalities./races...unless you believe that Italians, brits, French and Germans are exactly the same people.

Knowing what are the differences (and of course we can only pick up on some general traits here) but those traits are in a way a deep inside ourselves and set us apart. The colour of the skin is an obvious physical one for instance but it certainly is an element but of course there are psychiologycal ones as well.

This world is full of colours in every sense of the word and it is absurd to believe that we are all the same.

I agree with pretty much everything youre saying,but I dont think football the sport attracts the type of people we are talking about.I think the fans and the tribal mentality attracts them,cause not all football fans fall into the same category,the ones who dont would generally not associate with the type of football fan we are talking about,I also think theres a big difference between football fans and fans of other .Watchng football is often associated with pubs,drinking and getting drunk.I think fans of other sports generally have a different or healthier approach to following sport,they socialise differently.Many football fans have no interest in fitness or the health side of part taking in sport because I think football is more of a game then a sport to them.Its more likely that a fan of another sport would be active in sport as recreation,fitness or a healthy lifestyle
As I said I dont believe people are born racist,its something that is taught or circumstances life experiences that we have no control over impact our lives in such a way that it shapes or mould us to be the person we are
I also dont believe that football fans are that way before they were football fans,they become tribal once they are a fan and a part of the clan
Its possible that the inclination to be that way was there before and only manifested itself once youre a fan.I say this cause I once met an American who told me he was a member of the KKK.He told me he never joined the KKK cause he hated other races or believed in white supremacy,he joined them cause it gave him an outlet and opportunity to vent all the hatred and anger that built up inside of him.I totally bought it cause I know that when people get fed up they turn extreme
I would be lying if I said its possible to be a human and never discriminate or judge.
We live in a society of labels and its exists because we differenciate.We use differences to describe and comprehend,its a part of the way we communicate
But once again,its something thats installed in us,could there really be a world without any discrimination if we were never taught to be so aware of what makes you different from someone else?
I,personally dont see anything wrong with pointing out differences.My whole argument in this comment is "labelling" "stereotyping" and could be considered judgmental, but we cant be over sensitive here,call a spade is a spade.The problem I have is when someone uses those differences to discriminate in a derogatory way,football fans do exactly that to fans of other teams
It may not be actual racism and may seem harmless most of the time,but its not something I think should glorified

Veejay wrote:As I said I dont believe people are born racist,its something that is taught or circumstances life experiences that we have no control over impact our lives in such a way that it shapes or mould us to be the person we are

I will differ there. I think we are all born with family bounds...and those bounds are tribal bounds too. When there is a notion that we belong to a group/clan, a form of racism settles. Asian people in England woudl naturally form a group cause there are genetic traits that naturally unites them....French for instance often stay within themselves in London and it takes years to really understand how different we are from English people despite being genetically and geographically so close. And the reason I believe that tribes naturally form is that tribes can actually form within a single family. History shows how a family could split and create 2 or more different tribes, no different than lions clans in the savana. If anything it is a primitive instinct.

I also dont believe that football fans are that way before they were football fans,they become tribal once they are a fan and a part of the clan

I think football can certainly awaken and favour our primitive and tribal instinct we all have. If things get economically tough for instance, our instincts may bring us together in forming tribes for better survival for instance. I know I woudl have a tendency to trust some (those like me) more that others. Football appeals to that basic win or lose (live or die) tribal survival instinct. Look at old form of rugby for instance it was about a game between villages (or something like that).

Its possible that the inclination to be that way was there before and only manifested itself once youre a fan.

Yes that is what I think too.

We live in a society of labels and its exists because we differenciate.We use differences to describe and comprehend,its a part of the way we communicate.

And we made this society...it's just a reflexion of ourselves.....like ants built colonies and not beehives.

I,personally dont see anything wrong with pointing out differences.My whole argument in this comment is "labelling" "stereotyping" and could be considered judgmental, but we cant be over sensitive here,call a spade is a spade.The problem I have is when someone uses those differences to discriminate in a derogatory way,football fans do exactly that to fans of other teams
It may not be actual racism and may seem harmless most of the time,but its not something I think should glorified

I don;t know much about football and its fans. Those I know are actually fine. I can see much more racism at teh world political level. Considering for instance that our nations have a right to have and use a nuclear bomb but refusing that another sourvereign nation acquires one. That is extreme form of racism and accepted by us (who have the bomb). Can we be any more racist than saying "you are not civilised enough to have something we have"? (I actually coudl find worse examples but let's not be too political here.

I think that FIFA is not doing well with racism and a good example of that are some scandals during the World Cup 2014

ryanr2 wrote:I think that FIFA is not doing well with racism and a good example of that are some scandals during the World Cup 2014

what's up with those guys???