Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Keywords

Latest topics
» Nishikori's best ever performance?
Today at 12:27 am by Tenez

» This Is What A Feminist Looks Like
Yesterday at 11:15 pm by noleisthebest

» Two words you will never associate with Nadal
Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:40 pm by noleisthebest

» Davis Cup 2017
Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:06 pm by Jahu

» NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS
Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:09 pm by Tenez

» Sharapova announces failed drug test
Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:02 pm by luvsports!

» Fight for #1
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:05 pm by Daniel

» US open prediction game: Final day
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:17 pm by DECIMA

» NITB: 'Spiritually speaking, very likely Djokovic's wife part of Nadal's evil plan'
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:36 pm by garthmarenghi

September 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 

Calendar Calendar

Affiliates
free forum


Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:17 pm

legendkillar wrote:Hey Ten,

Try to tough it out. It's good seeing you back on there. I think because you add so much weight to your opinion, I just think for some it's too much detail for them to take on board all at once Winking some just prefer a more simplistic opinion and view.

It's an interesting debate brought to the table. I think it's just too generic sometimes to laud all players despite differences in talent, ability and skill. Which I think is the easiest route to sign off on when one doesn't have the patience or capacity to debate the points raised. It's like a curtain call act in some respect.

I say keep the fight up Ten. You have the right to an opinion. I think feathers get ruffled in this game of chess when some think 'Check' and you find a new move that thwarts it. smiley
I must admit I was shocked to see Tenez post there at first, I felt he has let down all of us who tried to build OTF after he was kicked out of v2.

In the meantime, I got used to it.

OTF will probably die down...it was good while it lasted Winking

noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by DECIMA on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:20 pm

Tenez wrote:
The rest we know what happens, the crowd gets mad, Fed is rattled and collapses mentally as his physical energy is drained and he loses another USO semi he should have won.
Hello there, what's this with Federer mentally collapsing ?
And his physical energy wasn't drained enough to get to 2 MPs. But after two short rallies he suddenly runs out of energy. And then mentally collapses, in that order. Oops.

DECIMA

Posts : 4369
Join date : 2013-05-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by DECIMA on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:23 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
OTF will probably die down...it was good while it lasted Winking
Relax, if the forum is getting too quiet I'll write a pro-Nadal post, then everybody will run from what they're doing to the nearest keyboard and the forum will roar back to life.

DECIMA

Posts : 4369
Join date : 2013-05-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by legendkillar on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:30 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
legendkillar wrote: Winking some just prefer a more simplistic opinion and view.
In that case they would love what Tenez was saying, lack of nuance and simplistic is the DNA of the argument Tenez is making here.

Ermmm not entirely.

The point I am making is that Ten's posts are detailed, some might not appreciate the length of his posts and probably want a more compact debate.

legendkillar

Posts : 1875
Join date : 2012-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by luvsports! on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:31 pm

Kim - Do you acknowledge that superior fitness, a higher margin for error and insane court coverage, enhance mental strength?

luvsports!

Posts : 3975
Join date : 2012-09-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Autumnleaf on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:38 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Hello there, what's this with Federer mentally collapsing ?
And his physical energy wasn't drained enough to get to 2 MPs. But after two short rallies he suddenly runs out of energy. And then mentally collapses, in that order. Oops.
Well, that's not really tough to understand, is it? He was on his last legs in the 5th set, in a last effort managed to get in front with 2 MPs on his own serve and then this epic fail. Watching it again - smart use of gamesmanship from Djokovic after the 30-40 point.

There was no coming back from this. Simply the best at rescuing defeat from the jaw of victory. Winking

Autumnleaf

Posts : 624
Join date : 2014-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:48 pm

legendkillar wrote:Hey Ten,

Try to tough it out. It's good seeing you back on there. I think because you add so much weight to your opinion, I just think for some it's too much detail for them to take on board all at once Winking some just prefer a more simplistic opinion and view.

It's an interesting debate brought to the table. I think it's just too generic sometimes to laud all players despite differences in talent, ability and skill. Which I think is the easiest route to sign off on when one doesn't have the patience or capacity to debate the points raised. It's like a curtain call act in some respect.

I say keep the fight up Ten. You have the right to an opinion. I think feathers get ruffled in this game of chess when some think 'Check' and you find a new move that thwarts it. smiley
Thanks LK. it's not a question of toughening it up. I just a question of not wasting too much time. My posting there is only targeting 3 or 4 posters but sadly those have not taken parts. Many out there are have not changed. It's always goes down to fan wars. Socal was the one answering my points, the rest is just picking and choosing points while making me say things I have not while forcing me to defend what I have not said.

I do not envisage to be a regular there, but I am enjoying my time when I do get there as you know I like shaking pre-conceived ideas.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:50 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
legendkillar wrote: Winking some just prefer a more simplistic opinion and view.
In that case they would love what Tenez was saying, lack of nuance and simplistic is the DNA of the argument Tenez is making here.
Au contraire Kim. The simplistic vision is to give the winner all the positive attributes, it's the one you read by all those fed/Nadal and Djoko fans....whereas reality can tell a very different story.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:53 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
legendkillar wrote:Hey Ten,

Try to tough it out. It's good seeing you back on there. I think because you add so much weight to your opinion, I just think for some it's too much detail for them to take on board all at once Winking some just prefer a more simplistic opinion and view.

It's an interesting debate brought to the table. I think it's just too generic sometimes to laud all players despite differences in talent, ability and skill. Which I think is the easiest route to sign off on when one doesn't have the patience or capacity to debate the points raised. It's like a curtain call act in some respect.

I say keep the fight up Ten. You have the right to an opinion. I think feathers get ruffled in this game of chess when some think 'Check' and you find a new move that thwarts it. smiley
I must admit I was shocked to see Tenez post there at first, I felt he has let down all of us who tried to build OTF after he was kicked out of v2.

In the meantime, I got used to it.

OTF will probably die down...it was good while it lasted Winking
Don't worry about that. My favourite posters are here. It's very clear that I learn more from people here that elswhere. And again whether we are a handful or 20 to post, I like the quiet times too. And Posting there can only push more people to visit here.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by DECIMA on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:55 pm

luvsports! wrote:Kim - Do you acknowledge that superior fitness, a higher margin for error and insane court coverage, enhance mental strength?
I think any positive attribute would improve confidence, yes.
But with Federer here I think he has no reason to play worse on these break points. I mean he's creating so many, so he was doing the right thing while returning Djokovic's serves, but then on the break points started slicing it and playing on average much more passively.

DECIMA

Posts : 4369
Join date : 2013-05-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by DECIMA on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:56 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:Hello there, what's this with Federer mentally collapsing ?
And his physical energy wasn't drained enough to get to 2 MPs. But after two short rallies he suddenly runs out of energy. And then mentally collapses, in that order. Oops.
Well, that's not really tough to understand, is it? He was on his last legs in the 5th set, in a last effort managed to get in front with 2 MPs on his own serve and then this epic fail. Watching it again - smart use of gamesmanship from Djokovic after the 30-40 point.

There was no coming back from this. Simply the best at rescuing defeat from the jaw of victory. Winking

There was no coming back from being at deuce while serving for the match ?

DECIMA

Posts : 4369
Join date : 2013-05-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by luvsports! on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:58 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
luvsports! wrote:Kim - Do you acknowledge that superior fitness, a higher margin for error and insane court coverage, enhance mental strength?
I think any positive attribute would improve confidence, yes.
But with Federer here I think he has no reason to play worse on these break points. I mean he's creating so many, so he was doing the right thing while returning Djokovic's serves, but then on the break points started slicing it and playing on average much more passively.

So yes. We are agreed then on my question.

luvsports!

Posts : 3975
Join date : 2012-09-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by DECIMA on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:58 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
legendkillar wrote: Winking some just prefer a more simplistic opinion and view.
In that case they would love what Tenez was saying, lack of nuance and simplistic is the DNA of the argument Tenez is making here.

Ermmm not entirely.

The point I am making is that Ten's posts are detailed, some might not appreciate the length of his posts and probably want a more compact debate.

Well I'm not criticising Tenez for his detail here, detailed can still be simplistic. Only accepting a very narrow minded view where an attacking player can do no wrong, and moving well is almost seen as a sin.

DECIMA

Posts : 4369
Join date : 2013-05-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by DECIMA on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:00 pm

luvsports! wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
luvsports! wrote:Kim - Do you acknowledge that superior fitness, a higher margin for error and insane court coverage, enhance mental strength?
I think any positive attribute would improve confidence, yes.
But with Federer here I think he has no reason to play worse on these break points. I mean he's creating so many, so he was doing the right thing while returning Djokovic's serves, but then on the break points started slicing it and playing on average much more passively.

So yes. We are agreed then on my question.
Yes, I've always agreed that having better attributes would improve confidence, anything else would be silly.

There are many aspects of mental strength though, and in the v2 thread and here we were discussing Federer's more break point conversion record. I don't believe that is because of poor confidence in his game in general, as I said he had the game to create so many break points.

DECIMA

Posts : 4369
Join date : 2013-05-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by DECIMA on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:04 pm

Socal made a good point that it can be argued in some respects Djokovic had even better mental strength in 2009/2010.

His serve was all over the place, awful; and that of course would have taken away a lot of confidence from his game; but he still showed a different side of mental strength- the grit and determination- to finish the year in the top 3.

DECIMA

Posts : 4369
Join date : 2013-05-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Autumnleaf on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:04 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:There was no coming back from being at deuce while serving for the match 
There probably would have been with some timely great serves that didn't come. And yes, I do think, there was some mental weakness at this point in the inability to put the match away. But that happens when you can't trust your game anymore.

Autumnleaf

Posts : 624
Join date : 2014-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:07 pm

Regarding your question on V2 about Fed being passive on BPs Kim, I already answered that there. When there is a BP, the pressure is normally on the server, hence it is always worth it to let the server win the point, as he has more to lose (in theory). Fed has wasted so many BPs in v Nadal cause he often was too aggressive, too eager to cross the finishing line. So many example as I mentioned already:
- ROme 06 final
- Or even in his first SP in that 2nd set where he actually pulls a very easy FH aggressive long....to remind him that it is always harder to execute on those crush moments.
Djoko v Nadal Madrid 08 is wasting a few like those for the same reasons.

So the way to play BP is to play percentage as the pressure is actually on the server...and wait for the right opportunity to attack. This is why it is so crucial to be fit.

Best example of that is fed / Nadal WTF 11 semi.
Fed plays 2 very aggressive shots to get to 0/40 on Nadal serve but then let Nadal
cope with the pressure on the first BP.... By then fed had learnt to put the pressure on the server on those moments. Once in the lead, it is a very different problem, fed can go for winners even on BPs, but unfortunately Fed was never in that position last Sunday.

29th min more or less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MTZQCdYNm8

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by luvsports! on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:08 pm

I just see Novak not making as many errors in this final as he did vs a physically stronger and faster Rafa of '10.
He had to go for broke, now he doesn't. It's important to acknowledge that.

On Feds, I feel I should clear something up. Elucidate my view a wee bit.
I am undecided on Feds. Believe me I know about the bp conversion rate. It drives me mad during the matches!

Like so many things, I believe it is a bit of both. I don't see Feds as a mental strength god, but neither do I for Nadal or Djoko. Feds does play with smaller margins which makes it harder to execute, and with those tools i mentioned it certainly makes it easier and they don't have to rely on it as much.

Odd analogy but hey ho: Islamic texts and doctrine are partly to blame but imperialism from the US and others is also a big factor (aka geopolitics). Both inextricably linked.

luvsports!

Posts : 3975
Join date : 2012-09-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:18 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Well I'm not criticising Tenez for his detail here, detailed can still be simplistic. Only accepting a very narrow minded view where an attacking player can do no wrong, and moving well is almost seen as a sin.
Typical caricaturisation of my words. You certainly belong to them.

I have not said there was anything wrong with defending......and the subject is not about defending v attacking, it's about mental strength and in that respect, attacking and defending are very telling about mental strength to start with. That's all I am saying. But typically fans want to see their player having all the +ive attributes without really understanding what makes an attacking player and what makes a retriever.

When I see Murray being moved around the court by Mannarino or KA, Or Djoko being bossed by Agut, Dolgo or Stan, but wait in hope for their level to drop, I cannot see them as particularly strong mentally. However they are clearly expecting their fitness to make the difference over the distance.

And again, I woudl be typically perfectly fine with that. I have been a huge fan of Borg but nowadays I am a bit more sceptical when it comes to fitness prowess. I am sure you understand why.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:25 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
legendkillar wrote:Hey Ten,

Try to tough it out. It's good seeing you back on there. I think because you add so much weight to your opinion, I just think for some it's too much detail for them to take on board all at once Winking some just prefer a more simplistic opinion and view.

It's an interesting debate brought to the table. I think it's just too generic sometimes to laud all players despite differences in talent, ability and skill. Which I think is the easiest route to sign off on when one doesn't have the patience or capacity to debate the points raised. It's like a curtain call act in some respect.

I say keep the fight up Ten. You have the right to an opinion. I think feathers get ruffled in this game of chess when some think 'Check' and you find a new move that thwarts it. smiley
I must admit I was shocked to see Tenez post there at first, I felt he has let down all of us who tried to build OTF after he was kicked out of v2.

In the meantime, I got used to it.

OTF will probably die down...it was good while it lasted Winking
Don't worry about that. My favourite posters are here. It's very clear that I learn more from people here that elswhere. And again whether we are a handful or 20 to post, I like the quiet times too. And Posting there can only push more people to visit here.
Who says I'm worried? Cool

OTF does not stand for OnlyTennisForum.




noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:26 pm

luvsports! wrote:Odd analogy but hey ho: Islamic texts and doctrine are partly to blame but imperialism from the US and others is also a big factor (aka geopolitics). Both inextricably linked.
On that point I certainly think the latter is responsible. Doctrine and text have been there for centuries and Muslims were amongst the least aggressive people recenly (they don;t have 2 bloody WWs on their hands for instance), getting emancipated till the 70s and 80s before "we" turned the Middle East into hell. It is also important to note that Muslims by far account for the main victims of IS.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:24 pm

Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:Odd analogy but hey ho: Islamic texts and doctrine are partly to blame but imperialism from the US and others is also a big factor (aka geopolitics). Both inextricably linked.
On that point I certainly think the latter is responsible. Doctrine and text have been there for centuries and Muslims were amongst the least aggressive people recenly (they don;t have 2 bloody WWs on their hands for instance), getting emancipated till the 70s and 80s before "we" turned the Middle East into hell. It is also important to note that Muslims by far account for the main victims of IS.

http://www.amazon.fr/Pont-sur-Drina-Ivo-Andric/dp/225393321X
or,
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3140.The_Bridge_on_the_Drina#other_reviews

noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:43 pm

Not sure what the book says...have no time read it. Seems like a good book though.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:59 pm

Yes, it's a good book. About a real bridge.

At 18, rallied and managed to convince my entire secondary school/generation to organise a final year trip to Sarajevo via Visegrad just so I can see that bridge and stand on it.

noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by legendkillar on Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:21 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
legendkillar wrote:Hey Ten,

Try to tough it out. It's good seeing you back on there. I think because you add so much weight to your opinion, I just think for some it's too much detail for them to take on board all at once Winking some just prefer a more simplistic opinion and view.

It's an interesting debate brought to the table. I think it's just too generic sometimes to laud all players despite differences in talent, ability and skill. Which I think is the easiest route to sign off on when one doesn't have the patience or capacity to debate the points raised. It's like a curtain call act in some respect.

I say keep the fight up Ten. You have the right to an opinion. I think feathers get ruffled in this game of chess when some think 'Check' and you find a new move that thwarts it. smiley
I must admit I was shocked to see Tenez post there at first, I felt he has let down all of us who tried to build OTF after he was kicked out of v2.

In the meantime, I got used to it.

OTF will probably die down...it was good while it lasted Winking

I don't see OTF dying down Winking

I just think in general come the autumn time tends to be the wind down for the season.

I think V2 has it's merits. I think like any forum, people like personalising their own space Winking 

If the OTFer's crashed V2 it would be seen as a hostile takeover. I say to any poster, just branch out and experience a more wider range of views smiley

legendkillar

Posts : 1875
Join date : 2012-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by luvsports! on Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:42 pm

Yeah, I like the mix of both. But sometimes the Rafa fans get to me :P

luvsports!

Posts : 3975
Join date : 2012-09-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by legendkillar on Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:23 am

Some fans are what I would call an acquired taste Winking

Not one to be enjoyed though Laugh

legendkillar

Posts : 1875
Join date : 2012-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:05 am

legendkillar wrote:
I don't see OTF dying down Winking

I just think in general come the autumn time tends to be the wind down for the season.

I think V2 has it's merits. I think like any forum, people like personalising their own space Winking 

If the OTFer's crashed V2 it would be seen as a hostile takeover. I say to any poster, just branch out and experience a more wider range of views smiley
Thanks LK. Hug
OTF may die down but NITB never will! diva

noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:46 am

The real problem I find with most forum is that posters are concerned about appearing fair and balanced rather than actually being fair and balanced. It's actually a problem our society has always been facing and which has been explolited by media and people in power.

It's reflected through our political systems. Whether in France, UK, US who really wants to consider voting outside the usual 3 main right, left and middle parties. It is convened that Labour/Democrats Cons/Rep and LibDem are the main "reasonable" parties and if you vote outside, or even don't adhere to them (I don't vote for any party) you are labelled a utopic, extremist, anarchist or else.

Whereas to me it is very clear that the extreme parties are actually those so called "Centre right " and "centre left". They have extreme powers and extreme means of information and coercion.

In other words we are very much like sheeps and like to behave as such and those with power are our shepherds.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:56 am

Tenez wrote: The real problem I find with most forum is that posters are concerned about appearing fair and balanced rather than actually being fair and balanced. It's actually a problem our society has always been facing and which has been explolited by media and people in power.

It's reflected through our political systems. Whether in France, UK, US who really wants to consider voting outside the usual 3 main right, left and middle parties. It is convened that Labour/Democrats Cons/Rep and LibDem are the main "reasonable" parties and if you vote outside, or even don't adhere to them (I don't vote for any party) you are labelled a utopic, extremist, anarchist or else.

Whereas to me it is very clear that the extreme parties are actually those so called "Centre right " and "centre left". They have extreme powers and extreme means of information and coercion.

In other words we are very much like sheeps and like to behave as such and those with power are our shepherds.

For me, that's not the problem (at least on forums), always been a black sheep...I  ignore safe thinkers and engage with more interesting ones.

It's the mods I cannot stand.

People telling me what I can and cannot say & think.

Even worse, the scary desire of those who choose to do modding.

The culture of fear - not my scene at all.

noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:46 am

Moderating is important. We had to kick some out here as they were just interested in insulting and sometimes we need to moderate ourselves too. Ideally, this forum attracts people who certainly do not need moderating. From what I see on v2, the large majority are very moderate posters. One or 2 mods there are actually the most needing of moderation which is quite funny.

I am more interested in the fear people have of thinking outside the box. Especially nowadays where we all seem to be forced to thinking one way. We call this in French "la Pensee unique". If you don't abide to it then again you are a weirdo or an extremist. This "pensee unique" is one of the greatest tyrant today.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:18 pm

It's quite amusing how many make me the author of things I have not said over there. And it is also quite strange that saying something basic, trivial and above all obvious can generate so much disagreement.

All I am saying is that mental strength is hugely affected by one style of play. Using thin margin is riskier than more margins and it has an effect on the player's mind. Someone playing with more margins does so for the very purpose of not taking as much risk and ease his mind stress. You can only play at the professional level using more margins by compensating with more fitness (Borg, Wilander, Chang, hewitt, Nadal, Djoko, Murray, Ferrer) or you can take more risk in order to shorten the point (volleying, SABR, FH close to net and lines or BH down the line for instance). Of course players who take lots of risks can end up retrieving and players who apply more margins can end up at times being aggressive. We are of course talking in relative terms here.

You can easily imagine that when Nadal and Djoko battle for 4 or 5 hours on a court, they don;t plan on using thin margin shots as the more they run the less likely those thin margin shots will work in their favour. So they clearly use more margin shots so they can both engage in a fitness battle, hence why their matches last that long. The last thing they want to do is take a stupid risk wasting those hours of effort running around.

It is also the very reason why those guys are so consistently present as the business end of slams, cause bigger margins makes you simply more consistent.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:41 pm

Tenez wrote:Moderating is important. We had to kick some out here as they were just interested in insulting and sometimes we need to moderate ourselves too. Ideally, this forum attracts people who certainly do not need moderating. From what I see on v2, the large majority are very moderate posters. One or 2 mods there are actually the most needing of moderation which is quite funny.
That's not what I consider moderating, just dealing with plain lack of manners and decorum: like bouncers in front of clubs and restaurants who turn away inappropriately dressed people.
Tenez wrote:I am more interested in the fear people have of thinking outside the box. Especially nowadays where we all seem to be forced to thinking one way. We call this in French "la Pensee unique". If you don't abide to it then again you are a weirdo or an extremist. This "pensee unique" is one of the greatest tyrant today.  

Well, that's another topic..and I believe as old as humanity.
Fearless people have been a tiny minority all my life and I am beginning to think they are born like that.
Just look at Pilates trial of Jesus and how the crowds reacted.

It has always been costly to tell the truth. Always.

Now it is more pronounced than ever with media firmly controlling and even moulding/changing what's left of people's thoughts.

Tennis world/media/pundits is a perfect example.

Lie is presented as truth and what's worse, everyone loves it!

noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:48 pm

Tenez wrote:It's quite amusing how many make me the author of things I have not said over there. And it is also quite strange that saying something basic, trivial and above all obvious can generate so much disagreement.

All I am saying is that mental strength is hugely affected by one style of play. Using thin margin is riskier than more margins and it has an effect on the player's mind. Someone playing with more margins does so for the very purpose of not taking as much risk and ease his mind stress. You can only play at the professional level using more margins by compensating with more fitness (Borg, Wilander, Chang, hewitt, Nadal, Djoko, Murray, Ferrer) or you can take more risk in order to shorten the point (volleying, SABR, FH close to net and lines or BH down the line for instance). Of course players who take lots of risks can end up retrieving and players who apply more margins  can end up at times being aggressive. We are of course talking in relative terms here.

You can easily imagine that when Nadal and Djoko battle for 4 or 5 hours on a court, they don;t plan on using thin margin shots as the more they run the less likely those thin margin shots will work in their favour. So they clearly use more margin shots so they can both engage in a fitness battle, hence why their matches last that long. The last thing they want to do is take a stupid risk wasting those hours of effort running around.

It is also the very reason why those guys are so consistently present as the business end of slams, cause bigger margins makes you simply more consistent.

I know what you are saying, but many unfortunately simply don't understand you.
It is essential for people to play the game and engage their brains in order to do so.
And that's those whose ego allows them to even want to admit you know what you are talking about and they don't.

There is no other way.

It took me some time to understand how little even people professionally involved in tennis have a clue! And even sadder: how little they care...
It really is amazing.

But still, it's important to tell the truth while we can, at any cost.

That is why this is such a small forum and I am proud to be in it even if I am the last one standing.


Last edited by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:54 pm

I have just been looking at other forums around as quite a few have been dying for lack of posters or interest subject I guess. It woudl be good if we could attract more posters.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:05 pm

Tenez wrote:I have just been looking at other forums around as quite a few have been dying for lack of posters or interest subject I guess. It woudl be good if we could attract more posters.

Well just look at your club and see how many would join/fit here?

That gives you an idea how many brave minds there are around.
I met a very interesting Frenchie (living in Belgium) at Boodles this summer, he was made for OTF!
Should've invited him...

Most people in my club are cowards...they have a heart attack just at the mention of word "dope"...

I may invite a few people from tennis.com when I get some time.

You?

noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:13 pm

yes, I understand the issue about people not wanting to be seen as suspecting players. As a matter of fact, we have no tangible facts except for those no-one-cares players. the doping subject can be boring too as we only have clues and not proof. I like the fact we speak a tiny bit less of it.

We don;t need many more members just a handful more regulars. People creating more topics and participating in it.

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by legendkillar on Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:31 pm

Tenez wrote:The real problem I find with most forum is that posters are concerned about appearing fair and balanced rather than actually being fair and balanced. It's actually a problem our society has always been facing and which has been explolited by media and people in power.

It's reflected through our political systems. Whether in France, UK, US who really wants to consider voting outside the usual 3 main right, left and middle parties. It is convened that Labour/Democrats Cons/Rep and LibDem are the main "reasonable" parties and if you vote outside, or even don't adhere to them (I don't vote for any party) you are labelled a utopic, extremist, anarchist or else.

Whereas to me it is very clear that the extreme parties are actually those so called "Centre right " and "centre left". They have extreme powers and extreme means of information and coercion.

In other words we are very much like sheeps and like to behave as such and those with power are our shepherds.

I think some views can become so dogmatic. For example 'fitness' is the buzz word that's causing meltdown over there and almost unacceptable, yet a handful of people can make a mountain out of a molehill about Nadal and TV's and that seem acceptable despite the underwhelming logic that surrounds that.

In the realms of life Ten, I find that I switch off now. I simply just don't care. It sounds harsh as I know people try to buy into this human race collective. For example with the refugee crisis. I have seen so many adverts requesting helping those in Africa, in the UK and now these people. Now I admit, I don't care. Purely because these people don't care about others even when life is going good for them. Our empathy should only be demonstrated because of someone's personal position? I don't agree with it. So now I switch off. Don't want to know. The media is all too full of things that designed to kill the human spirit.

Part of this new outlook and approach I have now is that I don't look to the media for some kind of beauty or enlightenment. I go outside, look across the hills, look at the skies. Just see life it's in purest form. That is a bit of me. It how it was hundreds of years ago and still should be now.

In terms of life subject matter and context. I think a wider horizon is a much better view than just accepting or disagreeing.

legendkillar

Posts : 1875
Join date : 2012-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:52 pm

words of wisdom again LK. Winking

Tenez

Posts : 16995
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by legendkillar on Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:24 pm

Cheers Ten smiley

Sounds like I have come out of Ancient Greece or something! Winking

legendkillar

Posts : 1875
Join date : 2012-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by luvsports! on Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:53 pm

This ancient Greece? Big Grin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQycQ8DABvc

luvsports!

Posts : 3975
Join date : 2012-09-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by legendkillar on Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:12 pm

Winking Laugh Laugh

legendkillar

Posts : 1875
Join date : 2012-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:34 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Part of this new outlook and approach I have now is that I don't look to the media for some kind of beauty or enlightenment. I go outside, look across the hills, look at the skies. Just see life it's in purest form. That is a bit of me. It how it was hundreds of years ago and still should be now.
In terms of life subject matter and context. I think a wider horizon is a much better view than just accepting or disagreeing.
Yes...that's the way. Always has been.
I feel sorry for people who can't live without TV.

=================================

Leisure

What is this life if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.
No time to stand beneath the boughs
And stare as long as sheep or cows.
No time to see, when woods we pass,
Where squirrels hide their nuts in grass.
No time to see, in broad daylight,
Streams full of stars, like skies at night.
No time to turn at Beauty's glance,
And watch her feet, how they can dance.
No time to wait till her mouth can
Enrich that smile her eyes began.
A poor life this if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.

=================================

noleisthebest

Posts : 24785
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by legendkillar on Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:42 pm

Amen to that Hug

legendkillar

Posts : 1875
Join date : 2012-10-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who Is The Mentally Toughest Player?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum