USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
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Daniel
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Tenez
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Who is going to win USO 2015?
Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
He said after his gluten free diet: "It seems I can fly now" it made the headlines of some interview article, I posted it here.noleisthebest wrote:
Where did he say that?
I don't remember it at all.
deep down certainly. A bit like a politician knowing he has to get the support of the media and betray his people to be elected.But I still think it frustrates him he has to play like he does. Especially when Federer beats him with that effortless tennis.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Tenez wrote:What woudl be Federer's ideal draw?
No Murray, No Monfils, No Nishi. The rest he can do with I think. I'd choose Stan over an inform Nishi for Fed.
Federer has a winning streak against Murray atm and so I think Murray would be the perfect one to be in Fed's half. Nadal is a bd match up for roger and best avoided unless on a fast court (there are none). Although it's prob possible for Fed to get both in his half... so hopefully one pest would annihilate the other.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
I'll take your word for it, but still have no recollection of it. Doesn't sound like him at all.Tenez wrote:He said after his gluten free diet: "It seems I can fly now" it made the headlines of some interview article, I posted it here.noleisthebest wrote:
Where did he say that?
I don't remember it at all.
Tenez wrote:deep down certainly. A bit like a politician knowing he has to get the support of the media and betray his people to be elected.noleisthebest wrote:
But I still think it frustrates him he has to play like he does. Especially when Federer beats him with that effortless tennis.
Yes, they are all like that, including Nadal.
The difference is Nole wants to at least try and play more attractively. He makes an effort in his own way.
I know it looks like sugarcoating compared to Federer...
I can see it on his face when he wins a point at the net...he is so pleased with himself, proud he did it that way.
It's not S&V-ing but I appreciate the thought behind it.
Murray and Nadal don't even boer trying.
Now I am again boxed into a Nole fangirl corner by you
How very Machiavelian of you!!!
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
The draw is coming out today, and this must be the first time I haven't thought about it...let alone made any conspiracy "predictions"
Now that Nadal looks toast, I lost my "inspiration"
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
FedererKing wrote:Tenez wrote:What woudl be Federer's ideal draw?
No Murray, No Monfils, No Nishi. The rest he can do with I think. I'd choose Stan over an inform Nishi for Fed.
Federer has a winning streak against Murray atm and so I think Murray would be the perfect one to be in Fed's half. Nadal is a bd match up for roger and best avoided unless on a fast court (there are none). Although it's prob possible for Fed to get both in his half... so hopefully one pest would annihilate the other.
I disagree.
Murray is a tough opponent over the best of five.
Nobody wants him on the semi.
He'll drain the life out of whoever he plays.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
I know he can beat Murray.....However he can' t beat Murray without ruffling his feathers. That's why he needs to avoid him at all cost. Nadal is no better than Granollers nowadays.FedererKing wrote:Tenez wrote:What woudl be Federer's ideal draw?
No Murray, No Monfils, No Nishi. The rest he can do with I think. I'd choose Stan over an inform Nishi for Fed.
Federer has a winning streak against Murray atm and so I think Murray would be the perfect one to be in Fed's half. Nadal is a bd match up for roger and best avoided unless on a fast court (there are none). Although it's prob possible for Fed to get both in his half... so hopefully one pest would annihilate the other.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Tenez wrote:I predicted some time ago that Fed's best tennis if injury free should be around his 30s. But to be more precise, it's his best tennis against today's top players and against those new conditions. Though I think he would be even more impressive if he were to play under 2000s pace conds versus 2000s top players.
We can see his body has not bulked and that very sadly he gets tired very quickly. So once again, if he dopes, he is not very good at it!
I liked one of the comments from tennis.com as it explained different body types of doping.
The obvious muscly one is easy to see, but the other EPO using lean athletes - it's much more difficult.
We can try and prove by watching how they play.
The real problem for me is I cannot fully appreciate what a very fit man's body of 30 year old clean athlete is capable of doing in tennis.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
noleisthebest wrote:FedererKing wrote:Tenez wrote:What woudl be Federer's ideal draw?
No Murray, No Monfils, No Nishi. The rest he can do with I think. I'd choose Stan over an inform Nishi for Fed.
Federer has a winning streak against Murray atm and so I think Murray would be the perfect one to be in Fed's half. Nadal is a bd match up for roger and best avoided unless on a fast court (there are none). Although it's prob possible for Fed to get both in his half... so hopefully one pest would annihilate the other.
I disagree.
Murray is a tough opponent over the best of five.
Nobody wants him on the semi.
He'll drain the life out of whoever he plays.
Murray hasn't had a set off Federer in ages. If Fed finishes him off fast, he won't have any impact. Murray would be far harder for Djokovic.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
You have always been.noleisthebest wrote:....
How very Machiavelian of you!!!
One of my favourite movie.
From 1h29....or 5mn before to put it in context.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Are you saying I am ashamed of being a nole fan and pretending not to be one?
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
noleisthebest wrote:Are you saying I am ashamed of being a nole fan and pretending not to be one?
That was not the point of this clip especially as i'd rather be the italian migrant than the Swiss. The point is that one cannot deny his origins as it is funily presented in this movie's football match scene.
Last edited by Tenez on Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
FedererKing wrote:noleisthebest wrote:
I disagree.
Murray is a tough opponent over the best of five.
Nobody wants him on the semi.
He'll drain the life out of whoever he plays.
Murray hasn't had a set off Federer in ages. If Fed finishes him off fast, he won't have any impact. Murray would be far harder for Djokovic.
I agree Federer beats Murray more easily than Nole. Federer beats everyone more easily than Nole except for Nadal.
The point is whoever plays Murray in the semis will be dead in the final.
Even if Fed beats Murray in three sets, he'll still be dead in the final.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Tenez wrote:noleisthebest wrote:Are you saying I am ashamed of being a nole fan and pretending not to be one?
That was not the point of this clip especially as i'd rather be the italian migrant than the Swiss. The point is that one cannot deny his origins as it is funily presented in this movie's football match scene.
I am not danying my origins.
Is that how I come across?
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
No.noleisthebest wrote:Tenez wrote:noleisthebest wrote:Are you saying I am ashamed of being a nole fan and pretending not to be one?
That was not the point of this clip especially as i'd rather be the italian migrant than the Swiss. The point is that one cannot deny his origins as it is funily presented in this movie's football match scene.
I am not danying my origins.
Is that how I come across?
I don't think I have to explain this.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
The draw is out!
Potential QF:
#Djokovic v #Nadal
#Federer v #Berdych
#Wawrinka v #Murray
#Nishikori v #Ferrer
Some great first round matches:
Murray-Kyrgios
Nadal-Coric
More here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/usopen
Potential QF:
#Djokovic v #Nadal
#Federer v #Berdych
#Wawrinka v #Murray
#Nishikori v #Ferrer
Some great first round matches:
Murray-Kyrgios
Nadal-Coric
More here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/usopen
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Federer's potential path:
L.Mayer
Baghdatis/Darcis
Kholi
Isner
Berdych
Murray
Djokovic
Djokovic's:
Souza
Pospisil
Seppi
Goffin
Nadal/Raonic
Nishikori
Federer
L.Mayer
Baghdatis/Darcis
Kholi
Isner
Berdych
Murray
Djokovic
Djokovic's:
Souza
Pospisil
Seppi
Goffin
Nadal/Raonic
Nishikori
Federer
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Other interesting R1 matches:
Gasquet-Kokki
Nishikori-Paire
Fognini in Nadal's quarter
Gasquet-Kokki
Nishikori-Paire
Fognini in Nadal's quarter
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Very interesting piece from tennis.com NITB and I agree with the context in which one of them said look at the top of the sport as a whole.
For me it is very much muddied waters. I can't think of any sport that has any lingering purity in it.
Sadly sport went commercial and like anything that embraces that, it loses that purity.
For me it is very much muddied waters. I can't think of any sport that has any lingering purity in it.
Sadly sport went commercial and like anything that embraces that, it loses that purity.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
The draws are hardly ever kind to Federer. At least Nadal is in Djok's half, but he'll prob fall well before meeting him.
Federer has Murray and Wawrinka in his.
Federer has Murray and Wawrinka in his.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Bad draw for Fed......unless Murray or Djoko loses early.
Why isn't Stan mentioned in the draw?
Why isn't Stan mentioned in the draw?
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/34078388
She's so far up her own arse, it's frightening. Imagine calling it a "Serena Slam" yourself, like that. My god. Lmao.
She's so far up her own arse, it's frightening. Imagine calling it a "Serena Slam" yourself, like that. My god. Lmao.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Tenez wrote:Bad draw for Fed......unless Murray or Djoko loses early.
Why isn't Stan mentioned in the draw?
What do you mean?
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
FedererKing wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/34078388
She's so far up her own arse, it's frightening. Imagine calling it a "Serena Slam" yourself, like that. My god. Lmao.
Yes...she's become unbearable.
A great player despite all, but impossible to watch because of the gamesmanship and drama acts now...
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
legendkillar wrote:Very interesting piece from tennis.com NITB and I agree with the context in which one of them said look at the top of the sport as a whole.
For me it is very much muddied waters. I can't think of any sport that has any lingering purity in it.
Sadly sport went commercial and like anything that embraces that, it loses that purity.
Yes, it's quite interesting and logical to assume that it's impossible to be clean at the top of any professional sport.
Tennis has become so physical.
One only needs to try and play to see how unrealistic levels of fitness pros have despite their fitness coaches, prime age etc...
Yet because of his extraordinary talent, Federer allows us to contemplate a dream.
What is upsetting in tennis compared to other sports and disciplines is that talent is pushed away.
I am still heart-broken because of Henin's retirement.
She couldn't survive in the sea of muscles.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
What are everyone's thoughts in Murray-Kyrgios?
After all the circus, I think Kyrg won't be able to play his best tennis.
Nole's draw looks quite easy. I can't imagine Nadal troubling him, but I can imagine Coric troubling Nadal.
Would be interesting to see Nole-Coric.
Rubi playing his last round of qualies today.
After all the circus, I think Kyrg won't be able to play his best tennis.
Nole's draw looks quite easy. I can't imagine Nadal troubling him, but I can imagine Coric troubling Nadal.
Would be interesting to see Nole-Coric.
Rubi playing his last round of qualies today.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
My old neighbour in Belgrade had a cousin who was expelled from SwitzerlandTenez wrote:noleisthebest wrote:Are you saying I am ashamed of being a nole fan and pretending not to be one?
That was not the point of this clip especially as i'd rather be the italian migrant than the Swiss. The point is that one cannot deny his origins as it is funily presented in this movie's football match scene.
after being caught on camera "stealing" some wild birds' eggs he found in the park.
Apparently, the omelette was great!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
noleisthebest wrote:legendkillar wrote:Very interesting piece from tennis.com NITB and I agree with the context in which one of them said look at the top of the sport as a whole.
For me it is very much muddied waters. I can't think of any sport that has any lingering purity in it.
Sadly sport went commercial and like anything that embraces that, it loses that purity.
Yes, it's quite interesting and logical to assume that it's impossible to be clean at the top of any professional sport.
Tennis has become so physical.
One only needs to try and play to see how unrealistic levels of fitness pros have despite their fitness coaches, prime age etc...
Yet because of his extraordinary talent, Federer allows us to contemplate a dream.
What is upsetting in tennis compared to other sports and disciplines is that talent is pushed away.
I am still heart-broken because of Henin's retirement.
She couldn't survive in the sea of muscles.
Nothing was more disappointing than watching Henin come out second best to the Williams and brute force. I guess even back then it was what was to come on the Mens side. I think that's why (and the only instance I might add) I cheered when Sharapova at Wimbledon did to Serena what she had done to the whole tour.
It's with any sport NITB. I look at football and think where are these 'World Class' talents? So I ask has sport gone too far in search of inhuman perfection or there just not the talents out there anymore?
That's why I do implore people to watch Federer when they can. Least they can say they lived in the same era. One of the very last exceptional talent's left in the world of sport.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
first round Murray Kyrgios
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
legendkillar wrote:noleisthebest wrote:legendkillar wrote:Very interesting piece from tennis.com NITB and I agree with the context in which one of them said look at the top of the sport as a whole.
For me it is very much muddied waters. I can't think of any sport that has any lingering purity in it.
Sadly sport went commercial and like anything that embraces that, it loses that purity.
Yes, it's quite interesting and logical to assume that it's impossible to be clean at the top of any professional sport.
Tennis has become so physical.
One only needs to try and play to see how unrealistic levels of fitness pros have despite their fitness coaches, prime age etc...
Yet because of his extraordinary talent, Federer allows us to contemplate a dream.
What is upsetting in tennis compared to other sports and disciplines is that talent is pushed away.
I am still heart-broken because of Henin's retirement.
She couldn't survive in the sea of muscles.
Nothing was more disappointing than watching Henin come out second best to the Williams and brute force. I guess even back then it was what was to come on the Mens side. I think that's why (and the only instance I might add) I cheered when Sharapova at Wimbledon did to Serena what she had done to the whole tour.
It's with any sport NITB. I look at football and think where are these 'World Class' talents? So I ask has sport gone too far in search of inhuman perfection or there just not the talents out there anymore?
That's why I do implore people to watch Federer when they can. Least they can say they lived in the same era. One of the very last exceptional talent's left in the world of sport.
Yes, we are very, very lucky to be his contemporaries.
And to see him live is an extra treat.
If I may suggest, O2 in WTF is quite reasonable compared to Wimbledon and a great chance to see him. We won't get many more.
I am even planning a trip to Halle next year
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
I guess another Djoko-Nadal encounter is inevitable. Both have doable draws, Djoko actually has an easy draw.
The supposed semi of the bottom half is Murray-Federer but Kyrgios is a nasty first rounder for Murray. Murrays quarter is potentially not easy too (Stan or Kevin).
Fed should get to the semi, not much to fear for Berdych.
The supposed semi of the bottom half is Murray-Federer but Kyrgios is a nasty first rounder for Murray. Murrays quarter is potentially not easy too (Stan or Kevin).
Fed should get to the semi, not much to fear for Berdych.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
noleisthebest wrote:legendkillar wrote:noleisthebest wrote:legendkillar wrote:Very interesting piece from tennis.com NITB and I agree with the context in which one of them said look at the top of the sport as a whole.
For me it is very much muddied waters. I can't think of any sport that has any lingering purity in it.
Sadly sport went commercial and like anything that embraces that, it loses that purity.
Yes, it's quite interesting and logical to assume that it's impossible to be clean at the top of any professional sport.
Tennis has become so physical.
One only needs to try and play to see how unrealistic levels of fitness pros have despite their fitness coaches, prime age etc...
Yet because of his extraordinary talent, Federer allows us to contemplate a dream.
What is upsetting in tennis compared to other sports and disciplines is that talent is pushed away.
I am still heart-broken because of Henin's retirement.
She couldn't survive in the sea of muscles.
Nothing was more disappointing than watching Henin come out second best to the Williams and brute force. I guess even back then it was what was to come on the Mens side. I think that's why (and the only instance I might add) I cheered when Sharapova at Wimbledon did to Serena what she had done to the whole tour.
It's with any sport NITB. I look at football and think where are these 'World Class' talents? So I ask has sport gone too far in search of inhuman perfection or there just not the talents out there anymore?
That's why I do implore people to watch Federer when they can. Least they can say they lived in the same era. One of the very last exceptional talent's left in the world of sport.
Yes, we are very, very lucky to be his contemporaries.
And to see him live is an extra treat.
If I may suggest, O2 in WTF is quite reasonable compared to Wimbledon and a great chance to see him. We won't get many more.
I am even planning a trip to Halle next year
Ah yes I have been to the WTF it's far less cumbersome than Wimbledon where you are too tired to enjoy the atmosphere.
I would like to visit Flushing Meadows one year. The one place where I won't have to fight the masses.
Indeed I say to anyone watch a match on TV or see the great man while you can.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
There was the usual Nike pre-USO exo with Fed, Nadal, Sharapova, Serena, Dimi and...Kyrgios!
And apparently Nadal refused to play doubles with him:
http://nypost.com/2015/08/27/big-name-star-refuses-to-play-with-tennis-bad-boy-nick-kyrgios/
Was this all part of some pre-arranged extra "punishment"?
Also, hard to believe he was drawn to play Murray in R1.
Murray was the only one who supported and "understood" Kyrgios, but at the same time won all 8 sets they played.
It's just weird...
I don't like all this gutless, behind the back dealing with a player. He got punished, now move on!
Reminds me a bit of Murder On The Orient Express...
And apparently Nadal refused to play doubles with him:
http://nypost.com/2015/08/27/big-name-star-refuses-to-play-with-tennis-bad-boy-nick-kyrgios/
Was this all part of some pre-arranged extra "punishment"?
Also, hard to believe he was drawn to play Murray in R1.
Murray was the only one who supported and "understood" Kyrgios, but at the same time won all 8 sets they played.
It's just weird...
I don't like all this gutless, behind the back dealing with a player. He got punished, now move on!
Reminds me a bit of Murder On The Orient Express...
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Patrick McEnroe said Kyrgios’ fitness is also an issue.
“He’s got a flair,’’ McEnroe said. “He could be a great player. But the bottom line is if he doesn’t become more professional, not even talking about the way he acts on the court, if he doesn’t become more professional in how he prepares himself, there’s no chance it’s going to happen. I’m talking about doing the physical work because this guy is getting a lot of injuries at 20. He’s not as fit as the other guys. But he’s got an unbelievable upside. He could be incredible for tennis.”
That's very true. I believe that is what I was saying more or less in the other thread and the reason why i could not see him in the top 5 in 2018. But of course he can change....but I can't see it now.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
This is what I wrote after seeing him in Wimbers:
Another thing I didn't like was his continual talking and muttering during play.
Either to himself, fans or the opponent.
I completely understand why Federer called him a clown.
But all that aside, he should be left alone to get on with things. Or maybe just go into hibernation until next AO...
noleisthebest wrote:
....
The next match was Kyrgios-Monaco.
Nicely seated in row one I had an excellent view and was able to fully "examine" Nicky boy.
First thing I noticed was the white sleeve he had over one of his arms which I saw heavily tattooed the other day. It looked like snake skin.
Did Wimbledon order him to cover that mess up?
If so, good in them!
Nick Kyrgios is one if the players I thought could have a good future before I saw him live.
Yes, he is definitely talented: plenty of easy power, great serve, excellent hands...and you'd think: well, that's enough, isn't it?
Well, no.
His FH though loose shouldered and quite free and whippy is a bashing shot. He, like many other players now born with this new technology is enjoying whacking rather than playing the ball and being pleased with himself too much with the effect... (Verdasco is another one). There is very little thinking and creating.
He is a showman extraordinaire!
But unlike Monf, who is a class clown, Kyrgios is a thin-skinned egomaniac.
When he served for the match (a break up!) I told him: come on Nick, give us serve and volley! and he just banged a serve in won the point from the baseline and then growled like an angry animal in my direction.
How dared I ask for what he's got no guts for and show him up?
Another thing I didn't like was his continual talking and muttering during play.
Either to himself, fans or the opponent.
I completely understand why Federer called him a clown.
But all that aside, he should be left alone to get on with things. Or maybe just go into hibernation until next AO...
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Herbert (seems like such a non-French name) beats Johnson, into his first final.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
I saw that.
His USO WC looks justified.
It annoys me they are refusing players from non slam-countries, though (Rubi, Ymer...)
I suppose that's the last bastion of Old Boys and their pre open-era whiter than white bliss....
His USO WC looks justified.
It annoys me they are refusing players from non slam-countries, though (Rubi, Ymer...)
I suppose that's the last bastion of Old Boys and their pre open-era whiter than white bliss....
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Rublev...in trouble. 1 set all!
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Btw, Rubi just lost 2nd set against Gojkowicz (from the Switzerland-Germany DC match memory, he is the heavy built S&V-er with a blond pony tail) so playing a decider for a place in the main draw.
I am a bit worried for him, he rarely wins in three sets.
Go Rubi!!!!
I am a bit worried for him, he rarely wins in three sets.
Go Rubi!!!!
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Tenez wrote:Rublev...in trouble. 1 set all!
Did you have chilli con carne for dinner?
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
no why?
just wasted 2 BPs.
just wasted 2 BPs.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Because I did.Tenez wrote:no why?
just wasted 2 BPs.
And you happened to mention Rublev 1set all the same time as me.
I really hope he gets through.
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
oh i see...
i was thinking it's not very nice to want a 26yo trying to make living to lose to let our prefered player go through.
It's tough life out there.
i was thinking it's not very nice to want a 26yo trying to make living to lose to let our prefered player go through.
It's tough life out there.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Tenez wrote:oh i see...
i was thinking it's not very nice to want a 26yo trying to make living to lose to let our prefered player go through.
It's tough life out there.
What a funny thing to say...
What did you have for dinner?
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
he needed 5 BPs in that 3rd set to break! Poor German double faulted at 4 all.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
Poulet basquaise.noleisthebest wrote:Tenez wrote:oh i see...
i was thinking it's not very nice to want a 26yo trying to make living to lose to let our prefered player go through.
It's tough life out there.
What a funny thing to say...
What did you have for dinner?
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
I see...Tenez wrote:he needed 5 BPs in that 3rd set to break! Poor German double faulted at 4 all.
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
I am glad Rub won....don't get me wrong.
When was the last time a 17yo qualified for a slam?
When was the last time a 17yo qualified for a slam?
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)
I like this fangirl tweet page....
https://twitter.com/TennisFangirl
found her while trying to find the last 17yo to qualify for slam...Coric....or course...
https://twitter.com/TennisFangirl
found her while trying to find the last 17yo to qualify for slam...Coric....or course...
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
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