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USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

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Who is going to win USO 2015?

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Total Votes : 2

USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:48 am

Only a week left before the final slam of 2015.

This year we'll have a roof over Arthur Ashe and no Super Saturday.
Men's final back on Sunday.

First round to last 2 not 3 days any more.But that's where good news end:

judging by USO website, it's not Federer but Nadal that's the main ticket selling magnet.

http://www.usopen.org/index.html?promo=mobile_more



Last edited by noleisthebest on Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:56 am

noleisthebest wrote:Only a week left before the final slam of 2015.

This year we'll have a roof over Arthur Ashe and no Super Saturday.
Men's final back on Sunday.

Are you sure? I expected that in a couple of years or so.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:59 am

I am not surprised Nadal is the big tickets seller in the big apple.

I am just hoping they won't make Federer start on Weds...or Thursday should it rain!

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:18 am

Yes...it's going to be ready for 2016...I don't know why I thought it was this year, probably because I caught one of the headlines saying that construction of supporting structure is finished.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/11/sports/tennis/supporting-structure-for-arthur-ashe-roof-is-completed.html?_r=0

Last USO was not good.. I don't remember any decent matches. No instant classics.
Only enjoyed Fed's comeback against Monfils, and Pouille's run.

USO has actually been the worst slam for some time.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:32 am

noleisthebest wrote:..USO has actually been the worst slam for some time.

Very true!...since 2008! Winking

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by luvsports! on Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:06 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Yes...it's going to be ready for 2016...I don't know why I thought it was this year, probably because I caught one of the headlines saying that construction of supporting structure is finished.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/11/sports/tennis/supporting-structure-for-arthur-ashe-roof-is-completed.html?_r=0

Last USO was not good.. I don't remember any decent matches. No instant classics.
Only enjoyed Fed's comeback against Monfils, and Pouille's run.

USO has actually been the worst slam for some time.

Pouille didn't even get to the draw. You thinking of Thiem's run?

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Daniel on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:30 pm

I'm going for "someone else".

Murray:  Too weak mentally in big moments and needs a good draw / luck
Djokovic: Not at his best at the moment and I see a shock exit
Federer: Inconsistent and burn out over bo5, but like the two above has a decent chance, regardless.
Nadal: He's finished.

Wawrinka is a dark horse, as always. Cilic might step up knowing he has 2000 points to defend and will zoom down rankings if he doesn't go far.

in order of likelihood?

Djokovic
Federer
Wawrinka
Murray
Cilic

Outside:

Dimitrov
Kyrgios

But, like I say... my heart says Fed but my head says not Djok, Murray, Fed or Nadal.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:31 pm

What woudl be Federer's ideal draw?

No Murray, No Monfils, No Nishi. The rest he can do with I think. I'd choose Stan over an inform Nishi for Fed.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by sphairistike on Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:01 pm

Knowing Nishi is injured, he won't be in form by the time he gets to SF if he gets there. On the other hand, Stan is a wild card and if he makes the SF, chances are he is Stanimal and as USO is on the slow side nowadays, Stan could be dangerous.

The ideal draw for me would be Fed has Nishi in his SF.

Nole and Rafa in the same QF.
Murray and Stan in the same QF.
The winners of these QF meet in SF and torture each other in 5 close sets.

Then I fancy Fed's chances to get to the Final and win it.

LaMonf is a big ? so is Tsonga. I doubt they will be much of a threat, but who knows...

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:31 pm

sphairistike wrote:Knowing Nishi is injured, he won't be in form by the time he gets to SF if he gets there. On the other hand, Stan is a wild card and if he makes the SF, chances are he is Stanimal and as USO is on the slow side nowadays, Stan could be dangerous.

The ideal draw for me would be Fed has Nishi in his SF.

Nole and Rafa in the same QF.
Murray and Stan in the same QF.
The winners of these QF meet in SF and torture each other in 5 close sets.

Then I fancy Fed's chances to get to the Final and win it.

LaMonf is a big ? so is Tsonga. I doubt they will be much of a threat, but who knows...
Well if Nishi is injured yes, otherwise he is much more likely to make Fed run than Stan.

I am not the least worried about Rafa. Agree with Stan and Murray hoping Stan will get through with enough strength to beat Djoko on the run.

Even if Monfils is out of form, he plays his best v Federer cause he know he is the only player he shoudl really lose to. Monfils best matches have always been v Fed.

Lots of ifs......but what worries me is that nowadays I doubt Fed can win a 4 setter.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by legendkillar on Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:07 am

It's weird many clambered for change and we got a final last year which by all accounts was a bit of a damp squib.

I have to admit I do want to see a Federer 6th title. Puts him out there on his own. He had a great chance last year and it went begging. I think a year on with more time with the new racquet might be the difference this year. To me he needs Djokovic taken out by someone else. The rest of the field he stands a good chance, provided his game can hold up and no-one has a real purple patch.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:30 am

legendkillar wrote:It's weird many clambered for change and we got a final last year which by all accounts was a bit of a damp squib.

I have to admit I do want to see a Federer 6th title. Puts him out there on his own. He had a great chance last year and it went begging. I think a year on with more time with the new racquet might be the difference this year. To me he needs Djokovic taken out by someone else. The rest of the field he stands a good chance, provided his game can hold up and no-one has a real purple patch.

I think what killed him last year was 10 matches in 2 weeks before the USO. I was really surprised! You coudl see he could not return v Cilic..as well as Cilic played Fed had been weakened by canada/Cincy and put down by Monfils.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by legendkillar on Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:33 am

I have to say I was surprised. More so that Cillic could maintain his level without disappearing mentally.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:59 pm

luvsports! wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Last USO was not good.. I don't remember any decent matches. No instant classics.
Only enjoyed Fed's comeback against Monfils, and Pouille's run.

USO has actually been the worst slam for some time.

Pouille didn't even get to the draw. You thinking of Thiem's run?
You are right...I actually made the same gaffe with Pouille's coach when he corrected me it was not USO but AO Blush

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:25 pm

I am annoyed Ferrer is announced as seeded (like in Wimbledon), but pretty sure he won't play, i.e. he is going to make someone's quarter easy with a LL to replace him.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:53 pm

Rubi is playing his R1 qualifying match against Go Soeda.

GO RUBI!!! diva

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:22 pm

Americans might be unlikely to give WCs to Russians nowadays.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:59 pm

One great thing about the USO.....it's its website!!!! It has not moved to the ugly, slow, HTML5 versions which make all websites so cumbersome nowadays!

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:07 pm

Not quite the USO talk...
I'm sat in the gym watching some athletics highlights on a big TV.
I haven't seen any of it for a loooooopng time.

I am shocked at how some women sprinters look  now: square jaw, huge, unnatural biceps...even their running looks artificial - no smoothness at all.

Then some men's races.
I read that Gatling guy is a caught doper, but, I really liked how he ran - brilliant sprinter.

All in all - the whole scene has changed a lot.

Everything looks fake and forced now. Everyone's got an attitude.

Kyrgios fits in that world perfectly!

And now off to treadmill I go...

PS

Yes USO website is great, it's actually working!
And last but not the least, Tenez, how's your time at v2?

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by legendkillar on Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:07 pm

A couple of the Kenyan runners got done today for doping.

The quest for in-human performance is scary.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:40 pm

that's why the only thing which matters is talent. ..and in the light of the discussion on taking the ball early on return, it seems clearer now that one requires talent to discern and appreciate talent.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by luvsports! on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:05 pm

I CANNOT STAND THE HYPOCRISY.

THEY ARE ALL FECKING AT IT. JUST SOME ARE SMARTER THAN OTHERS AND HAVE BETTER WAYS TO EVADE DETECTION THROUGH THEIR BACKING.

FECK EM ALL!

Apologies for that otf.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:09 pm

I agree. 4 of the 8 finalists were caught but I am pretty sure all of the 100m finalists were doped. It seems that Michael johnson did not want to blame anyone in particular but just want to recognise that the sport has a problem.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by legendkillar on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:11 pm

Nothing like Rage Against The Machine!

Get some Killing In The Name Of going LS! Winking

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by luvsports! on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:14 pm

Haha!

I just hate it when athletes who quite clearly doped condemn those who got caught, some slower than their times, some faster. 
The actions of the bbc are just beyond pathetic.

Practice, protein, practice, protein, practice, doping, practice, epo, practice, hgh, practice, stanozol, practice, protein.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:19 pm

luvsports! wrote:I just hate it when athletes who quite clearly doped condemn those who got caught, some slower than their times, some faster. 
The actions of the bbc are just beyond pathetic.
So you also believe Bolt is doped?

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:24 pm

Rublev beat Soeda 2 and 3....good start.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by luvsports! on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:26 pm

I cannot say for certain, as he could be a genetic aberration, like Eero Mantyranta, but my thoughts are he isn't.
A clean athlete, imo, isn;'t near the top in sprinting or many sports imo. 
I cannot see a clean guy beating  a doper.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:29 pm

luvsports! wrote:I CANNOT STAND THE HYPOCRISY.

THEY ARE ALL FECKING AT IT. JUST SOME ARE SMARTER THAN OTHERS AND HAVE BETTER WAYS TO EVADE DETECTION THROUGH THEIR BACKING.

FECK EM ALL!

Apologies for that otf.

That's why I thought Murray's "good riddance" comment was particularly awful (I can't even remember who it was about now Yikes)

And on the similar note, Troicki's lost his third consecutive first round match.
It could be a coincidence but it's just odd.

He was very vocal and anti-ITF/WADA during his suspension, Nole was supporting him
all the way.
Recently Ivanisevic gave an interview to local Croatian media. He was livid about how Cilic was treated.
Interestingly, both Troicki and Cilic kept claiming how ITF was set on destroying their careers.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:29 pm

Tenez wrote:Rublev beat Soeda 2 and 3....good start.
Oh, lovely!!!

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by DEC1M7 on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:34 pm

luvsports! wrote:
Practice, protein, practice, protein, practice, doping, practice, epo, practice, hgh, practice, stanozol, practice, protein.

Where did you find my diary then ?

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:41 pm

luvsports! wrote:I cannot say for certain, as he could be a genetic aberration, like Eero Mantyranta, but my thoughts are he isn't.
A clean athlete, imo, isn;'t near the top in sprinting or many sports imo. 
I cannot see a clean guy beating  a doper.
Even in tennis?

I agree in athletics or any sport when its essentially about fitness.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:41 pm

luvsports! wrote:I cannot say for certain, as he could be a genetic aberration, like Eero Mantyranta, but my thoughts are he isn't.
A clean athlete, imo, isn;'t near the top in sprinting or many sports imo. 
I cannot see a clean guy beating  a doper.

It would be fun to train a talented athlete and keep him clean, just as an experiment and compare him to these superhuman "specimen".

Tennis players are beginning to fall ill quite often these days: Kvitova caught mono, Oudin is having weird palpitations, and other cases among very young ones.
Even cancer. I wonder if that's just different immune systems reacting badly to all "vitamins" and supplements.

And then Serena's antics last Wimbledon...

Tenez, you mentioned Nole hitting the ball softly against Fed.
I haven't got round to seeing the match yet.

Do you think he was injured or lacking something?
I read a comment somewhere that he is a different player after Wimbledon, and that certainly was the case in the last two years.

Just that break between Wimbledon and Asian swing.

I mean, two finals are nit to be sniffed at, but the manner in which he was playing was weird.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:41 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Rublev beat Soeda 2 and 3....good start.
Oh, lovely!!!
Yes I was surprised by the score.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:47 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Do you think he was injured or lacking something?
I think he was tired but his hitting softly had nothing to do with that, imo. I think the balls being faster he was forced to block rather than hit back as the best way to keep them in court. Wimbledon balls are bigger and slower and therefore you can put more power into it. It's easier to whack a slow ball than a fast one.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by luvsports! on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:48 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
luvsports! wrote:I cannot say for certain, as he could be a genetic aberration, like Eero Mantyranta, but my thoughts are he isn't.
A clean athlete, imo, isn;'t near the top in sprinting or many sports imo. 
I cannot see a clean guy beating  a doper.

It would be fun to train a talented athlete and keep him clean, just as an experiment and compare him to these superhuman "specimen".

Tennis players are beginning to fall ill quite often these days: Kvitova caught mono, Oudin is having weird palpitations, and other cases among very young ones.
Even cancer. I wonder if that's just different immune systems reacting badly to all "vitamins" and supplements.

And then Serena's antics last Wimbledon...

Tenez, you mentioned Nole hitting the ball softly against Fed.
I haven't got round to seeing the match yet.

Do you think he was injured or lacking something?
I read a comment somewhere that he is a different player after Wimbledon, and that certainly was the case in the last two years.

Just that break between Wimbledon and Asian swing.

I mean, two finals are nit to be sniffed at, but the manner in which he was playing was weird.

The first time I saw this, I couldn't quite believe it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZeAQRhb66U

I immediately thought "side effects" but obvs could be wrong...

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:49 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Rublev beat Soeda 2 and 3....good start.
Oh, lovely!!!
Yes I was surprised by the score.
I was surprised Chung beat Paire yesterday.
Ymer is not bad either.

I think Rubi is playing Nishioka next, haven't checked yet.

I would love to see him make the main draw. He's been gritting it out in Challengers all summer.

And would get up at 3 AM to see him.

A "boy" from our club played him in orange ball and lost in TB.
He is top British junior who has already had a back surgery.

He is travelling to US on a scholarship next week. Not interested in pro tennis yet although he is quite tall and strong.

Mind you, I really don't like how he strikes the ball. Pure factory.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:52 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Do you think he was injured or lacking something?
I think he was tired but his hitting softly had nothing to do with that, imo. I think the balls being faster he was forced to block rather than hit back as the best way to keep them in court. Wimbledon balls are bigger and slower and therefore you can put more power into it. It's easier to whack a slow ball than a fast one.

I can understand that, but why was he serving badly?

And how come Murray was not tired.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:56 pm

luvsports! wrote:...

I immediately thought "side effects" but obvs could be wrong...
That was acting!

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:57 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Do you think he was injured or lacking something?
I think he was tired but his hitting softly had nothing to do with that, imo. I think the balls being faster he was forced to block rather than hit back as the best way to keep them in court. Wimbledon balls are bigger and slower and therefore you can put more power into it. It's easier to whack a slow ball than a fast one.

I can understand that, but why was he serving badly?

And how come Murray was not tired.

I don't think he was serving badly.

Murray was tired too.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by luvsports! on Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:03 pm

Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:...

I immediately thought "side effects" but obvs could be wrong...
That was acting!

?

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:05 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5WAx2jrd70

interesting interview.

Fed is right when saying that playing Djoko in semi might be better than in final. In fact thsi is what I was saying earlier.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:27 pm

Yes, good interview. He looks so happy and full of life.

Not sure about semis...he lost to Nole twice there in 2010 and 11.

But their dynamics is very interesting.

I have seen quite a few of their matches live, there is a proper, healthy rivalry between them.

Fed was in Nole's head for a long time, but got out of there in 2010.

Looks like he could be back in.

Unlike Nadal, Nole admires Federer's tennis and wants to play like him, so must fond it frustrating when he falls short.

Especially a total thrashing like Cinci seems to have  been.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:32 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Not sure about semis...he lost to Nole twice there in 2010 and 11.
Proves the point! ....only because he got tired....so clearly he would have done worse in finals!

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:39 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Unlike Nadal, Nole admires Federer's tennis and wants to play like him, so must fond it frustrating when he falls short.
Does he? He is not doing a good job. He does a good job trying to be the new Nadal though.

Especially a total thrashing like Cinci seems to have  been
.I honestly don't think he cared much. He said that reaching the final the way he played was a big surprise and he knows that at the USO, on slower conds and bo5, it will be a very different matter. However he is probably getting more and more rattled by the crowd...too often too partial.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:01 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Unlike Nadal, Nole admires Federer's tennis and wants to play like him, so must fond it frustrating when he falls short.
Does he? He is not doing a good job. He does a good job trying to be the new Nadal though.
He does.
I know how he is thinking.
He hates the stick he gets for his "boring" tennis.
That's why he is learning to volley, that's why he got Becker.

Of course he first wants to win. And he is winning with what he's got.

He could be beefing up like Murray and muscling the ball from the baseline CC, but he isn't.

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Especially a total thrashing like Cinci seems to have  been
.I honestly don't think he cared much. He said that reaching the final the way he played was a big surprise and he knows that at the USO, on slower conds and bo5, it will be a very different matter. However he is probably getting more and more rattled by the crowd...too often too partial.

Still, he is proud.
That loss or rather Federer's win was a statement.
In front of the whole tennis world.

That's why he is frustrated. He is trying but getting no love.
I like and don't like Becker in his corner.

What I like is Becker pushing him to "keep punching" but don't like this emotional hardening and ruthlessness.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:04 am

Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:I cannot say for certain, as he could be a genetic aberration, like Eero Mantyranta, but my thoughts are he isn't.
A clean athlete, imo, isn;'t near the top in sprinting or many sports imo. 
I cannot see a clean guy beating  a doper.
Even in tennis?

I agree in athletics or any sport when its essentially about fitness.

While you were enlightening yourself ay v2, I went back to tennis.com.
There is an excellent article by P. Bodo on Fed there, and an interesting little discussion on doping in tennis:

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/08/why-not/56021/#.Vd7DF2K9KSM


If you have evidence that Fed is juicing please provide it. Yes he fits the profile of an older player who suddenly gets better and has tremendous stamina. Yes he is built like Lance Armstrong who has provided the newer profile for PED users. But remember that Rafa fit the old profile. What we do know is that they both won Olympic gold medals and the best testing occurs there. Until someone provides evidence it is clear that "fans" of either player are just aiming their accusations against their least favored player. If either is found to be juicing their records should be expunged .

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Speed Up The Game 9 hours ago
@teddyw406

Teddy:  I don't interpret the above posts as stating that Federer is juicing.

And Federer isn't built like Armstrong.  Armstrong was much bigger up top naturally, which made his sudden 1999 climbing ability even more "Not Normal," to use Armstrong's favorite phrase.  And Lance actually was weight lifting before and during his 2009 return.

http://blog.sijmon.nl/post/177242740/via-icdnturnercom-respect-is-all-that-i

Looking at Federer, he doesn't have the physique of a steroids/HGH user at all - he's a lean, light, quick machine, similar to Sampras but an even better, lighter athlete.  Blood doping (EPO) is different and doesn't result in any particular body type - skinny cyclists and muscle bound middle distrance 800 meter track runners both use it.

Nadal perfectly fits the steroid/HGH physique profile, however, especially before his most recent comeback.  Who knows if we'll ever find out whether or not Nadal doped?


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teddyw406 8 hours ago
Speed,

"Who knows if we will ever find out if Nadal Doped? Unfortunately in this age all of the top athletes including the top tennis players are somewhat suspect. What we have learned from other sports is that if one of the top players is doping it is very likely that the other top athletes in their sport are doping.


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teddyw406 7 hours ago
To continue, Bonds is said to have started his doping because his chief competitors like Sosa and Maguire were passing him. Some people at my club believe that Fed may be motivated in a similar way as Rafa was getting close to some of his records. I do not buy it but at this point I would not be surprised if tennis is dirty also. What i believe strongly Is that if one of the top players is doping the others are also. This has been the case in every other sport. Every one. These are very competitive athletes with near equal access to PEDS. The problem is that no one wants to acknowledge that it may be their favorite player who is cheating. I have always taken the position that it does not matter who the offenders are. Fed, Rafa, Nole anyone who is found to have been cheating should have their records expunged. They did just that in cycling, track and field and at the Olympics. In baseball they have not yet expunged records but are very likely to do so in the future. That is unless one believes that Bonds 9 million hr record is real, or those of his chief competitors Maguire and Sosa. Let's not forget Roger Clemens who miraculously got better in his thirties and forties and on paper is the best pitcher ever with 7 Cy Young awards.

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Speed Up The Game 7 hours ago
@teddyw406

Almost agree with all of your analysis, Teddy, except your statement that "if one of the top players is doping the others are also."

That generally is a very convincing "arms-race" argument, which applies to cycling, track & field, the NFL and even American campaign financing & Super PACs.  If Mitt Romney is taking donations from billionaires, Barack Obama must also, similar to if the Americans are building a nuclear ICBM missile arsenal, the Soviets must also.

Tennis is a bit of a different animal, maybe similar to the NBA, in which doping has marginal or limited situational benefit.  I believe most of the tennis dopers were clay courters who got busted for steroid/HGH-style products, not blood doping ones, because they were going for upper body strength (Nadal-ish) to generate heavy spin and shots on the slow red clay.

Federer and Djokovic clearly are not HGHing - we can see it by looking at them.

Could they be blood doping???  Yes, and perhaps blood doping is rampant in tennis, and contributes to the amazing stamina of so many of the pro players.  Blood doping is much tougher to see, which is why so many cyclists never get caught, while more strength-searching steroid-using boxers, NFL players, wrestlers and track sprinters (built like houses) do.


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Damo 8 hours ago
@teddyw406 Fed didn't "suddenly get better" yes, he's playing better than he was in 2013 when he had a bad back, but not as well as he was earlier in his career, and I thought the reason everyone says he has no chance against the top players in a best of five is just because he doesn't have "tremendous stamina".

I agree we shouldn't accuse any player of PED use without evidence. We just don't know whether they are or not. I hope none of them are.


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mvbasten 7 hours ago
@teddyw406 can i give my 2 cents on armstrong? in absence of failed tests, you look at a physical accomplishment that doesn't make sense. lance had a body of a time-trialist (not as thick as a sprinter, but still plenty thicker than a typical climber), and yet he was destroying all those skinny colombians up the Alpe d'Huez. that simply didn't make sense. you are either build like indurain and kill the time trial and just hold on in the mountains, or you're pantani and fly in the mountains and hope not to lose by too much in a time trial. and both of those guys doped. that's what always made me suspicious of lance.

who among tennis players has a body/performance combo that doesn't make sense? i don't think fed qualifies. he's decently thick, so the power is not a surprise. he hasn't bulked up in his mid-30s ala bonds. he doesn't have a body of a shot-putter combined with a stamina of a marathon runner. he just doesn't tick off any of the boxes. that doesn't prove he's clean, but i'd be shocked if he weren't.


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Speed Up The Game 7 hours ago
@mvbasten

Great analysis, mvbasten, especially about Armstrong vs. Pantani & Indurain and the climbers.  You obviously know your cycling, where EVERYBODY DOPES - similar to horse racing, track & field and the NFL (except some quarterbacks and speedy, small defensive backfield gents).

And my answer to your question is...............

NADAL

http://www.clubhousecancer.com/2008/08/do-they-test-fo.html


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mvbasten 7 hours ago
@Speed Up The Game @mvbasten i grew up watching indurain kill everyone in time trials. rooted against him, but respected him. i was more than a bit disappointed when he confessed. and pantani... his tour win should've been just obvious, but at that time i was a kid a clueless. too much tour has made me a bit jaded when it comes to great performances (it's just hard to watch track runners, for example), but i still prefer not to assume someone is doping. skepticism is always healthy, though.

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teddyw406 6 hours ago
Hi mvbasten,

That is the problem. You found out that in they end all of the top cyclists were doping. Same with every other sport at the top where doping has surfaced. Why on earth would it be different in tennis? One of the top players at our club is the ultimate Rafa fan. He absolutely believes that the "new and improved" fed is improved because he is doping. He argues that after several lackluster years this is a different Fed. I agree with him but not for the reason that he is giving. I said to him that there are other explanations for his improved play. Fed is perhaps moving better due to being injury free for the first time in several years, that he has changed racquets, that he has changed his tactics etc. We do fairly well in the discussion until I assert that if Fed is doping it very, very, very, likely that Rafa is also. He becomes irate and I would say irrational so we do not continue with what has now become more of an argument. I guess it is human nature to not want to believe that your "hero" has warts. Everyone wants to point fingers at the other guy and refuses to look at their own. Good discussion. Adios.


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Speed Up The Game 10 hours ago
@Biological_Passports_Nadal

Federer needs Djokovic to lose to someone else (Janowicz on a sugar high, maybe), Murray to choke (again) and not to run into a dialed-in hot player, like Cilic in 2013.


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JohnSingkit 6 hours ago
@Biological_Passports_Nadal



Not counting Arthur Ashe at 31y 11m 25 days,



Agassi Australian 32y 8m 28d 2003

Rosewall French 33y 7m 7d 1968

Gimeno French 34y 10m 1d 1972

Rosewall USOpen 35y 10m 11d 1970

Rosewall Australian 36y 2m 12d 1971

Rosewall Australian 37y 2m 1d 1972



With more modern  equipment, that would be



Sampras USOpen 31y 0m 27d 2002



With present day conditions but with an older, smaller racquet than he is using now:



Federer Wimbledon 30y 11m 0d 2012




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1dannyboy1 13 hours ago

noleisthebest

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:25 am

noleisthebest wrote:
He could be beefing up like Murray and muscling the ball from the baseline CC, but he isn't.
You know it woudl not work for him cause he would lose a lot of his flexibility and speed. So he based his game on retrieving...more than anyone in fact. As he said in 2011, it's about being light so "I can fly".

noleisthebest wrote:
Still, he is proud.
That loss or rather Federer's win was a statement.
In front of the whole tennis world.
I don't think so...the statement was Wimbledon. However I agree that not having won the crowd is affecting him a bit. That's why he is frustrated. But he knows he will never have the style to please the crowd. The only thing he can do is behaving well...like applauding his opponents shots.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:15 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
He could be beefing up like Murray and muscling the ball from the baseline CC, but he isn't.
You know it woudl not work for him cause he would lose a lot of his flexibility and speed. So he based his game on retrieving...more than anyone in fact. As he said in 2011, it's about being light so "I can fly".

Where did he say that?
I don't remember it at all.

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Still, he is proud.
That loss or rather Federer's win was a statement.
In front of the whole tennis world.
I don't think so...the statement was Wimbledon. However I agree that not having won the crowd is affecting him a bit. That's why he is frustrated. But he knows he will never have the style to please the crowd. The only thing he can do is behaving well...like applauding his opponents shots.

Interesting, never thought of it like that.
I can't stand shot clapping.

But I still think it frustrates him he has to play like he does. Especially when Federer beats him with that effortless tennis.

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Re: USO 2015 Talk (The Draw Is Out!)

Post by Tenez on Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:18 am

I predicted some time ago that Fed's best tennis if injury free should be around his 30s. But to be more precise, it's his best tennis against today's top players and against those new conditions. Though I think he would be even more impressive if he were to play under 2000s pace conds versus 2000s top players.

We can see his body has not bulked and that very sadly he gets tired very quickly. So once again, if he dopes, he is not very good at it!

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