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What type of player is Nadal?

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What type of player is Nadal?

Post by luvsports! on Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:45 pm

Interesting debate going on atm on v2 about Nadal's style of play.

Of the Nadal fans there: Hawkeye, Blb and Haddie - HE imo seems to be the most accurate in her assessment of him.

He's not a risky player. He will wait until an opportunity arises and then attack. All about the %'s and waiting for the right moment. 
Blb and Haddie (more Haddie), i think, believe he's an aggressive baseliner who takes a lot of risks and uses this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzQBUM8LpPc) to support her argument.

0.40 - amazing banana shot but the odd shot doesn't prove you're risky.
1.03 - Nadal does all the running. Hanging in the point and pulls off an insane retrieval. 
1.30 - Mad defence again.
1.45 - Berdych is doing all the attacking. Rafa pulls off oen the best defensive points i've ever seen & eventually wins it. No risk there.
2.30 - Again rafa reaches a ball no other would reach through hsi court speed etc
From then on it's mainluy his speed. The bh is a much flatter shot when he goes for it which is riskier but still not v risky. 
The odd point he does flatten it out but it isn't what brings him nearly as much success as the heavy topspin and court coverage. 

Pretty much all these points, Nadal is on the defensive and hits a passing shot winner - some are insane - but he isn't taking risks or dictating. His footwork is phenomenal, especially to get into fh positions but ye.... defence!

Imo he's not an aggressive baseliner. The most aggressive I have seen him was during that v impressive hard court stretch in '13 (Monteal, cincy, US open). 
How can you be when on average he stands behind the baseline, hits the ball with a huge trajectory above the net, relies heavily on his defence and movement & v rarely will hit more winners than his opponent. 

This isn't to detract from a 14gs winner but I just feel it is wrong to say he is something he's clearly not. 

In a civil manner what do you make of Nadal's playing style?

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:22 pm

luvsports! wrote:Interesting debate going on atm on v2 about Nadal's style of play.

Of the Nadal fans there: Hawkeye, Blb and Haddie - HE imo seems to be the most accurate in her assessment of him.

He's not a risky player. He will wait until an opportunity arises and then attack. All about the %'s and waiting for the right moment. 
Blb and Haddie (more Haddie), i think, believe he's an aggressive baseliner who takes a lot of risks and uses this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzQBUM8LpPc) to support her argument.

0.40 - amazing banana shot but the odd shot doesn't prove you're risky.
1.03 - Nadal does all the running. Hanging in the point and pulls off an insane retrieval. 
1.30 - Mad defence again.
1.45 - Berdych is doing all the attacking. Rafa pulls off oen the best defensive points i've ever seen & eventually wins it. No risk there.
2.30 - Again rafa reaches a ball no other would reach through hsi court speed etc
From then on it's mainluy his speed. The bh is a much flatter shot when he goes for it which is riskier but still not v risky. 
The odd point he does flatten it out but it isn't what brings him nearly as much success as the heavy topspin and court coverage. 

Pretty much all these points, Nadal is on the defensive and hits a passing shot winner - some are insane - but he isn't taking risks or dictating. His footwork is phenomenal, especially to get into fh positions but ye.... defence!

Imo he's not an aggressive baseliner. The most aggressive I have seen him was during that v impressive hard court stretch in '13 (Monteal, cincy, US open). 
How can you be when on average he stands behind the baseline, hits the ball with a huge trajectory above the net, relies heavily on his defence and movement & v rarely will hit more winners than his opponent. 

This isn't to detract from a 14gs winner but I just feel it is wrong to say he is something he's clearly not. 

In a civil manner what do you make of Nadal's playing style?

What do you mean by the "civil manner"?

OTF is the most polite and intelligent forum around.


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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by luvsports! on Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:27 pm

"Death of tennis" Winking

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by gallery play on Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:30 pm

he sucks

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by Tenez on Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:00 pm

gallery play wrote:he sucks
Laugh

So true.

A great player in sluggish conditions...very poor on normal tennis pace....which unfortunately don't exist anymore on the tour.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:10 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:he sucks
Laugh

So true.

A great player in sluggish conditions...very poor on normal tennis pace....which unfortunately don't exist anymore on the tour.

I knew you'd be the voice of civility here Winking


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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:14 pm

luvsports! wrote:"Death of tennis" Winking
Well, how beautifully did I put that all those years ago?

I mean, really!

What's there to add?

I challenge v2-ers, esp Nadal fans to come from 4m behind the Mod baseline and join us here in OTF at the net....to chat about Rafa

Caramel eyes...the lot!

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:20 pm

Actually, as much as I loathed Fedal all these years...I can't wait for tomorrow's match!

It's almost like watching a black and white film!

I mean, it's just a quarters of Cinci not a Wimby final...

And you Kev and Feli, don't you dare get in the way!!! Grr


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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by luvsports! on Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:24 pm

I wish i was there for caramel eyes quote. Legendary  Laugh.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by Tenez on Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:37 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
luvsports! wrote:"Death of tennis" Winking
Well, how beautifully did I put that all those years ago?

I mean, really!

What's there to add?

I challenge v2-ers, esp Nadal fans to come from 4m behind  the Mod baseline and join us here in OTF at the net....to chat about Rafa

Caramel eyes...the lot!
Excellent. It's true that I find OTF very civilised as a forum. We hardly ever have to argue. ....Helps to be very few I guess.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:45 pm

But even with Amri/Larry/Kimmy we always got on well.

Shame 606 community dispersed in so many directions.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by luvsports! on Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:15 am

I have been frequenting menstennisforum recently. Good for the blog views Winking . Quite tribal there mind.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:27 am

I am so glad I'm out of tribal jungle!

I enjoyed it, but grew out of it...so liberating Big Grin

From that point of view, I can see Wimbledon are right to keep the name of Centre Court although I so often wanted it to be called Roger Federer Court.

As for that other forum...it's probavly. just another forum...

Quantity means nothing.

I am still in awe of Temez's vision and insights he had all those year's ago.




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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by Daniel on Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:16 am

It isn't a debate.  It's a circus.  Those guys are so removed from reality it is scary to think they have the vote.  Nadal is the most limited top 10 player at the moment.  He has one plan and always has had.  The second he can't retrieve balls (like recently, due to aging and lack of confidence), he is finished.  He hits balls way, way over the net and his winner ratio compared to Federer (esp Federer 04-07) is ABYSMAL.  He is not a risk taker.

And he won't ever become one, no matter what those deluded fools over on 606v2 want people to believe.  He hasn't got the raw ability to start playing serve and volley, like Federer, either.

I long predicted the demise of Nadal based on his limitations as a player, and it's finally here.  He's a goner, and his annoying fans are soon to join him.  The funniest thing is how his fans are running around trying to clutch at some sort of forlorn hope that this is a blip, or else are blaming a curse.  Hahahaha.  It's called age, gentlemen, coupled with a very limited player.


He'll probably duck Federer yet again too in Cinc.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by Daniel on Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:06 am

And he did.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by summerblues on Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:14 am

luvsports! wrote:I wish i was there for caramel eyes quote. Legendary  Laugh.
What do you mean you wish you were there?  The quote is proudly on permanent display:

http://www.wooffiesrafaramblings.co.uk/

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by luvsports! on Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:37 am

Ahhh. I thought it was before my time on 606 or something. Ta.

SCREW YOU RAFA YOU DUCKER!

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by DECIMA on Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:42 am

I think Hawkeye's analysis was right, he is not a player who wants to gamble and take risks. 
If he's playing high risk shots at certain times, that's because he's calculated that doing so will give him better percentage chance of winning the point/match. Not because he suddenly wants to gamble.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by DECIMA on Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:47 am

noleisthebest wrote:But even with Amri/Larry/Kimmy we always got on well.

Shame 606 community dispersed in so many directions.
Yes true I get on well with many on here. Most of the veteran members of the forum anyway, some slightly newer members seem like something you'd see in YouTube comments or Twitter trolls. 

Although I'm not sure most Nadal fans would like this forum. Ppl say I am a sensitive Nadal fan, maybe it's true but I don't think so. Not sure many Federer fans would post on a forum where ppl hate Federer and aren't scared of letting others know. I don't mind hearing different opinions, and I put forward my point of view.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:17 am

luvsports! wrote:Ahhh. I thought it was before my time on 606 or something. Ta.

SCREW YOU RAFA YOU DUCKER!

It was from 606 days...

Wooffie moved to v2 with some of us and then left as she couldn't stand anything said against those caramel eyes.
I liked her passion but it's hard to talk tennis with someone who is a pure 100% fan of a player, not the sport.

It's the women Nadal fans who are  extra sensitive... Winking

I remember one of them in RG last year sitting in front of me...she wanted to eat me alive when I said he was a doper. Laugh

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:44 am

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I think Hawkeye's analysis was right, he is not a player who wants to gamble and take risks. 
If he's playing high risk shots at certain times, that's because he's calculated that doing so will give him better percentage chance of winning the point/match. Not because he suddenly wants to gamble.

The question Kim is actually whether Nadal could play consistently riskier. It is very clear he cannot. So in other words he had no choice but go the hard physical way. Playing safe means running faster and longer. Djoko does the same with the advantage to be able to take the ball earlier (than Nadal) and therefore doesn't not have to hit as hard and doesn't need to carry as much muscle. Nadal has no choice. Murray is very similar to Nadal.

If he is playing high risk shots at times, it's because he knows it is going to be his last shot of the rally and therefore has to pull a winner or his opponent will.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:47 am

Kim Jong-Un wrote:.. Not sure many Federer fans would post on a forum where ppl hate Federer and aren't scared of letting others know. I don't mind hearing different opinions, and I put forward my point of view.
The real Federer fan are not sensitive. They don't care about Federer being criticised. In fact it's is objective, they can enjoy the discussion.

Now try to have an open, objective discussion about time taking between points with a Nadal fan.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:48 am

noleisthebest wrote:...I remember one of them in RG last year sitting in front of me...she wanted to eat me alive when I said he was a doper. Laugh
Oh yeah...those Caramel eyes can only be "pure and loving".

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by luvsports! on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:59 am

I am getting to that point, but I am still v protective and defensive with feds. :P
LOng way to go before inner peace Winking .

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:53 pm

I watched a bit of Nadal-Deli/Feli.

From what I could see, Nadal tried to play from the baseline but it was too fast for him, Feli could easily rally with him like that.

Nadal's spin is actually toothless from the baseline as he just doesn't get enough time to load it fully, so ends up looking like an average, plain grinder.

Feli played beautifully with his BH.

It helped that the court was faster than usual.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:05 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:...I remember one of them in RG last year sitting in front of me...she wanted to eat me alive when I said he was a doper. Laugh
Oh yeah...those Caramel eyes can only be "pure and loving".

I must say, I'll never be able to understand it!
To me those eyes are shifty and insincere.

I'd actually love to ask Wooffie how she got into that state of dither....she did have a photo with him on her website in the beginning, it must have been love at first sight Winking


Aaaaah, love is blind... cupid

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:36 pm

noleisthebest wrote:...Nadal's spin is actually toothless from the baseline as he just doesn't get enough time to load it fully, so ends up looking like an average, plain grinder.
That's exactly it.

Feli played beautifully with his BH.

Was not impressed actually. Except that he held his serve pretty well.

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Re: What type of player is Nadal?

Post by Tenez on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:38 pm

Nadal is not an aggressive baseliner for the simple reason that he is not dictating nor does (or did) he wish to finish point early....which is what an aggressive player is all about.

However his strength comes from the fact that the ball he sends are difficult to time. This to me was his real strength. What distinguished him from the rest cause there are a couple of players who can reach as many balls more or less (Djoko, Monfils, Murray) but none of those guy produce a ball particularly hard to hit back. Nadal also probably forced more running than Djoko and Murray for that very reason. As it is easier to time a Djoko or Murray ball, it is easier to send them to corners. However Nadal taking the ball so late evens things up a bit.

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