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ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

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Post by BEL19VE on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:05 pm

truffin1 wrote:Even if Murray said what you say-  I don't know what context that was in or whether he was really going into detail or even being truthful, but I have worked closely with and been around hundreds of professional athletes over a 30 + career, fighters, nba, nfl-- and they all are extremely conscious of time limits.    An NFL Qb- has a clock in his head where he releases within 3 seconds.. I've seen tapes of Manning, Brees literly say to the half second how quick their release was in drills.  You don't think a tennis player knows how long 25 seconds is if a QB can be conscious of a few seconds?  300 lb men running full speed at QB;s and these guys are conscious of it.  Boxing, NbA, NFL-   top athtletes know exactly how much time they need or can take for something. 
He's aware of the time limits, but without a stopwatch I don't think it's possible to know the timings to the exact seconds.
I'm not into American sports so I frankly don't know what you're referring to, but I doubt it's the same context as in tennis- where it is time between points. The most I've read about American football is Luvsports' superb article on it a few years ago.

Edit: Also I think it's easier to keep a count of timing if it's simply 3 seconds. However over time, knowing the difference between 24 seconds and 26 seconds without a timer or without counting in your head is much harder.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:46 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
truffin1 wrote:Even if Murray said what you say-  I don't know what context that was in or whether he was really going into detail or even being truthful, but I have worked closely with and been around hundreds of professional athletes over a 30 + career, fighters, nba, nfl-- and they all are extremely conscious of time limits.    An NFL Qb- has a clock in his head where he releases within 3 seconds.. I've seen tapes of Manning, Brees literly say to the half second how quick their release was in drills.  You don't think a tennis player knows how long 25 seconds is if a QB can be conscious of a few seconds?  300 lb men running full speed at QB;s and these guys are conscious of it.  Boxing, NbA, NFL-   top athtletes know exactly how much time they need or can take for something. 
He's aware of the time limits, but without a stopwatch I don't think it's possible to know the timings to the exact seconds.
I'm not into American sports so I frankly don't know what you're referring to, but I doubt it's the same context as in tennis- where it is time between points. The most I've read about American football is Luvsports' superb article on it a few years ago.

Edit: Also I think it's easier to keep a count of timing if it's simply 3 seconds. However over time, knowing the difference between 24 seconds and 26 seconds without a timer or without counting in your head is much harder.

Again, you are wrong.

Even if you played tennis just once in your life you'd know that, just like Federer does, people grab the ball move from deuce to add or vice versa to serve...there is no towelling, no fiddling, no pacing to and fro the back of the court ...you just get on with it and if a point is longer, you recover as you go or in the changeover if it's a match.

But because the tennis Nadal plays is so far removed from anything we undoped mortals do, he simply has to catch breath and try to recover from the abnormal energy he expends striking the ball so hard and from so far behind ESPECIALLY ON CLAY where he has to create all the pace.

I was watching him during the first set today hitting the ball with all his might...and couldn't believe my eyes. I have mo idea how he manages to recover even in those 30-40 seconds he is trying to steal, all I can say modern medicine is amazing...I don't know how it works in a body, but am sure it can't be good in the long run, (but that's besode the point here).


Last edited by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BEL19VE on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:51 pm

noleisthebest wrote:


Even if you played tennis just once in your life you'd know that, just like Federer does, people grab the ball move from deuce to add or vice versa to serve...there is no towelling, no fiddling, no pacing to and fro the back of the court ...you just get on with it and if a point is longer, you recover as you go or in the changeover if it's a match.
I barely take any time between points, but then again I'm not a professional player and I don't have OCD tics like Nadal does. To be honest if you told me how much time I took between serves to the nearest second, I genuinely do not know. Probably around 7-10 seconds; but I can't be precise.

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Post by BEL19VE on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:52 pm

As I said, this is obviously more about finding another stick to beat Nadal with (notice how many digs you've managed to have at Nadal on other issues while discussing this NITB...); than it is about you really being concerned about the 3 seconds extra you have to deal with.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:52 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:


Even if you played tennis just once in your life you'd know that, just like Federer does, people grab the ball move from deuce to add or vice versa to serve...there is no towelling, no fiddling, no pacing to and fro the back of the court ...you just get on with it and if a point is longer, you recover as you go or in the changeover if it's a match.
I barely take any time between points, but then again I'm not a professional player and I don't have OCD tics like Nadal does. To be honest if you told me how much time I took between serves to the nearest second, I genuinely do not know. Probably around 7-10 seconds; but I can't be precise.

There you go!

So all you need to do now is work out why Nadal needs and Federer does not need all that extra time.

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Post by BEL19VE on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:54 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:


Even if you played tennis just once in your life you'd know that, just like Federer does, people grab the ball move from deuce to add or vice versa to serve...there is no towelling, no fiddling, no pacing to and fro the back of the court ...you just get on with it and if a point is longer, you recover as you go or in the changeover if it's a match.
I barely take any time between points, but then again I'm not a professional player and I don't have OCD tics like Nadal does. To be honest if you told me how much time I took between serves to the nearest second, I genuinely do not know. Probably around 7-10 seconds; but I can't be precise.

There you go!

So all you need to do now is work out why Nadal needs and Federer does not need all that extra time.
I just said ? Read my post fully Winking

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:55 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:As I said, this is obviously more about finding another stick to beat Nadal with (notice how many digs you've managed to have at Nadal on other issues while discussing this NITB...); than it is about you really being concerned about the 3 seconds extra you have to deal with.

Well, I won't deny Nadal provides a lot of pleasure when losing, I shall miss him that way when he retires...he is such an awesome baddie Winking

But joking aside, he has stuffed tennis no end, and I am sure you know it but just don't want to lose face and admit it.


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Post by BEL19VE on Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:01 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:As I said, this is obviously more about finding another stick to beat Nadal with (notice how many digs you've managed to have at Nadal on other issues while discussing this NITB...); than it is about you really being concerned about the 3 seconds extra you have to deal with.

Well, I won't deny Nadal provides a lot of pleasure when losing, I shall miss him that way when he retires...he is such an awesome baddie Winking

But joking aside, he has stuffed tennis no end, and I am sure you know it but just don't want to lose face and admit it.
It's fine though, now tennis is dead I'm sure Djokovic will resurrect it Winking

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Post by truffin1 on Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:02 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:As I said, this is obviously more about finding another stick to beat Nadal with (notice how many digs you've managed to have at Nadal on other issues while discussing this NITB...); than it is about you really being concerned about the 3 seconds extra you have to deal with.

You keep using this "3 seconds" thing,  or he was just over by a couple seconds,etc... yet you admit you don't know how far he was going over.   we all know he goes 30-40 seconds sometimes and in that case- there is no doubt he knows he's past the time limit.    This is just pure fact, and to argue otherwise in pure fan delusion.

If he only went over a couple of seconds today, then you do have an arguemetn that he's not aware, but you don't even know if that's the case, and given how often the umpires let him get away with it- I seriously doubt it was that close.  What we do know is that Nadal goes way over often in the past so it's a fair guess that he did this time.  

Someone time it please and not Amri who will start timing at some magical point where he and only he deems it to be the start of the time between points.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:12 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:As I said, this is obviously more about finding another stick to beat Nadal with (notice how many digs you've managed to have at Nadal on other issues while discussing this NITB...); than it is about you really being concerned about the 3 seconds extra you have to deal with.

Well, I won't deny Nadal provides a lot of pleasure when losing, I shall miss him that way when he retires...he is such an awesome baddie Winking

But joking aside, he has stuffed tennis no end, and I am sure you know it but just don't want to lose face and admit it.
It's fine though, now tennis is dead I'm sure Djokovic will resurrect it Winking

Nole has stopped the rot, so from that point of view he has certainly ressurected it.
Nadal would've probably wom 20 slams by now if it wasn't for Nole and how sad would that be...
Then imagine what influence he would've had over sponsors, TDs...ATP...more players would take time between the points, 2 years protected ranking...and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Tennis is where it is not because of Nole, but Nadal.
If Nadal hadn't been allowed to cheat the rules he would not have won any slams.

Nole would have done.

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Post by truffin1 on Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:26 pm

okay- found one little clip, as all the match vidoes on youtube I could find seem to be taken down for copyright.

4-3 second set-  Nadal does all his usual stuff and serves within 24 seconds at 0-0 to 0-15 (5 or 6 shot easy rally.  again 24 ish seconds to go to 15-15- both quick and easy points.
 
 15-15-  he takes around 27 seconds and serves- wins the point to go up 30-15 but it's a longer rally and Ferrer makes him run a little.

Now Nadal starts taking more time and goes just over 30 seconds to serve.   One shot and done to go up 40-15, and he serves within 17 seconds then at 40-15.

loses an avg length rally and then takes 29 seconds at 40-30...  my video then freezes in middle of that rally so don't know who wins the point.

Based on that-- all his OCD tics,etc that you blame it on-   he gets to the serve within the time limit or within a second or two.   Only after he needs a rest does he go to 30 seconds... which I think proves what people are saying- he does it on purpose...   vs.  you saying it's just part of his routine.

Then on top of that- after winning te easy point- he's suddenly able to serve super quick--  IF it was ocd- his routine would not waver and he wouldn't suddenly at will be able to serve within 17 seconds.

btw- no warning at 30 seconds. so that tells me he would have been over 30 seconds at least for the umpire to give him warning...  



Now- I didn't time it to the millisecond and I started the stopwatch after the point ends and nadal starts to move towards the baseline.. If anything I give him around a second extra before I start.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:39 pm

I'll also add/remind that enforcing 25 secs between the points was "reintroduced" DURING Nadal's 7 months' absence post Rosol loss in Wimbledon, while late Brad Drewitt was ATP boss.

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Post by luvsports! on Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:17 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
truffin1 wrote:Even if Murray said what you say-  I don't know what context that was in or whether he was really going into detail or even being truthful, but I have worked closely with and been around hundreds of professional athletes over a 30 + career, fighters, nba, nfl-- and they all are extremely conscious of time limits.    An NFL Qb- has a clock in his head where he releases within 3 seconds.. I've seen tapes of Manning, Brees literly say to the half second how quick their release was in drills.  You don't think a tennis player knows how long 25 seconds is if a QB can be conscious of a few seconds?  300 lb men running full speed at QB;s and these guys are conscious of it.  Boxing, NbA, NFL-   top athtletes know exactly how much time they need or can take for something. 
He's aware of the time limits, but without a stopwatch I don't think it's possible to know the timings to the exact seconds.
I'm not into American sports so I frankly don't know what you're referring to, but I doubt it's the same context as in tennis- where it is time between points. The most I've read about American football is Luvsports' superb article on it a few years ago.

Edit: Also I think it's easier to keep a count of timing if it's simply 3 seconds. However over time, knowing the difference between 24 seconds and 26 seconds without a timer or without counting in your head is much harder.

Haha cheers but what article? The one when I say American football is the dullest sport there is?
I got banned from ja606 for a bit for annoying all the NFL fans  Laugh

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Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:02 am

What's your prediction for today?

Berdych Monfils - Monfils in 3.....though thats more what I want than what I think.
Nadal Djoko: I'll be more precise. 61 63

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:30 am

Not sure about Monf-Berd....

For some reason looks like Berd can handle him with ease.
But Monf has played quite focused and well this week...still, you never know with him.
I'd expect he would see this as a big chance to at least make it to the final, and then...anything could happen.

So, it could be a close one, probably 3 sets.

Does Monf have power to come from a set down is the only question?
Crowd will be on his side, and that will help.

Nole-Rafa...I hope for a demolition.
In the 2013 final Nole let him off the hook and didn't bagel Nadal.

So...one bagel set would be very appreciated.

I am curious to see how Nadal plays Nole today.

I saw a "new" shot from him yesterday, an early taken CC FH, looked stinging!

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Post by AceofDeath on Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:09 am

I expect Nadal to break the time violation... a couple of times and pick his crack 50-60 times at the same time he looked quite good in parts yesterday so this will be very close, certainly no bagels for Djokovic - probably a 6-4 4-6 7-5 type of match  Cheers  

Berdych oh, he enjoys making the semi's but NOT winning them. Monf to win 7-6 6-4

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Post by luvsports! on Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:39 pm

Pathetic from Le Monf.

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Post by AceofDeath on Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:01 pm

Mentally weak. Clay final for Berdy Doh

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Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:28 pm

Hi AoD - Welcome to OTF. Do we know you? coming from V2?

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Post by AceofDeath on Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:47 pm

Yes I remember you from v2, Josiah here sir Whistle

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:49 pm

I'm in the gym, recovering from the time trial...hopefully will be able to drag myself home somehow in the next hour.... online2long

Didn't see Monf-Berd, but disappointed by the score.

I wouldn't mind seeing it in the next semi, though Cool

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:51 pm

AceofDeath wrote:Yes I remember you from v2, Josiah here sir Whistle

Hi Josiah!

How are you doing these days?
I remember you as a discerning Fed fan, have you enjoyed/discovered other players?


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Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:52 pm

AceofDeath wrote:Yes I remember you from v2, Josiah here sir Whistle
Hi Josiah - Good to have you here.

You can let go at your anti-Nadal feelings here.
Winking

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Post by AceofDeath on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:03 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
AceofDeath wrote:Yes I remember you from v2, Josiah here sir Whistle

Hi Josiah!

How are you doing these days?
I remember you as a discerning Fed fan, have you enjoyed/discovered  other players?

Hello NITB smiley

I think Federer has 1 more slam in him, obviously not clay though lol. I like Dolgopolov and Stan too, especially Dolgo!

Keeping myself in shape zen  How about you?

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Post by AceofDeath on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:07 pm

Tenez wrote:
AceofDeath wrote:Yes I remember you from v2, Josiah here sir Whistle
Hi Josiah - Good to have you here.

You can let go at your anti-Nadal feelings here.
 Winking
I will have to work on my anti-Nadal feelings as v2 have a lot of Nadal fans I had to hold it back Winking

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Post by luvsports! on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:25 pm

J dowg. Welcome to the ..... gathering Big Grin

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Post by BEL19VE on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:39 pm

Truffin, that is good research.

I suppose it is natural any player would take more time between points after a particularly long one; but with Nadal because his 'base time' is already quite high due to his OCD tics, the extra time he needs (not just catching his breath, but also wiping off more sweat after a long point etc.) means that he will go over the time limit.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, and I think he should make an effort to change it (perhaps see a psychiatrist or expert in this area), but it's not the end of the world either.
I also think there should be a timer out on court, so the players can see how much time they are taking between points, and there's no confusion.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:41 pm

Tenez wrote:
AceofDeath wrote:Yes I remember you from v2, Josiah here sir Whistle
Hi Josiah - Good to have you here.

You can let go at your anti-Nadal feelings here.
 Winking

Welcome to the forum AceOfDeath, we don't have many people who are anti-Nadal here, so your point of view will be very unique Winking

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Post by BEL19VE on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:41 pm

I don't normally gamble, but I've put quite a lot in Djokovic winning in straight sets here.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:47 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't normally gamble, but I've put quite a lot in Djokovic winning in straight sets here.
I think your money is safe!...despite the first break!

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:52 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't normally gamble, but I've put quite a lot in Djokovic winning in straight sets here.

Putting money on Nole cannot be classified as gambling Cool

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:54 pm

Made it home at last!
Fed, watered and ready to watch...

It's looking like a reverse bagel atm Yikes

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Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:55 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't normally gamble, but I've put quite a lot in Djokovic winning in straight sets here.
What were the odds?

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:56 pm

Wow, what level of physical hitting from the word go!!!!

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:57 pm

Break him now Nole!!! diva

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:59 pm

At the rate poor balls are being pulverised here, they should change them every 3 games.

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Post by luvsports! on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:00 pm

2-2

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:00 pm

Loved that dropshot-lob combo!

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:01 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Break him now Nole!!! diva

Good boy! Applause

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Post by BEL19VE on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:03 pm

Tenez wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't normally gamble, but I've put quite a lot in Djokovic winning in straight sets here.
What were the odds?
11/10 profit

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Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:04 pm

We could see Nole was just nervous at the beginning. Should never lost that first break.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:06 pm

Nadal playing a lot lot better than I thought he would, has already won as many games as I predicted he would in the whole match.

Reasons he can't win though:
-poor second serve return
-too many unforced errors

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Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:07 pm

Nadal trying to stick to the baseline....unlike in the past....that will speed up the pace and limit the number of long points.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:08 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal trying to stick to the baseline....unlike in the past....that will speed up the pace and limit the number of long points.
He'd probably be a bit more behind the baseline if he wasn't tired from yesterday's match.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:08 pm

I hope people can see how much harder and faster players are striking the ball now.

Nadal's BH has really improved when he gets to it. Not gutsy, but very pacy.

Ridiculously physical!

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Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:09 pm

Djoko plays as if he had everything to lose!

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:14 pm

Tenez wrote:Djoko plays as if he had everything to lose!

To me he looks taken aback by Nadal's new level of physicality.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:16 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't normally gamble, but I've put quite a lot in Djokovic winning in straight sets here.

I have just realised you are cheering for Nole to win now, brilliiant! Laugh

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Post by BEL19VE on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:17 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't normally gamble, but I've put quite a lot in Djokovic winning in straight sets here.

I have just realised you are cheering for Nole to win now, brilliiant! Laugh
No I'm not ?

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Post by BEL19VE on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:19 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Djoko plays as if he had everything to lose!

To me he looks taken aback by Nadal's new level of physicality.
That was a great game from both... even Nadal or Djokovic haters have to admit that.

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