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ATP Masters 1000: Miami

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ATP Masters 1000: Miami - Page 6 Empty Re: ATP Masters 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:18 am

I copied this from the live ranking link.

4 Rafael Nadal ESP 5255 -1 - Lost in Miami R32 - -
5 Kei Nishikori JPN 5190 - Miami R16 - 5280 6100
6 Milos Raonic CAN 5070 - Miami R16 - 5160 5980

Nishi needs another round and Rao needs another 2 rounds to overtake Nadal. So Rao needs to beat Nishi...and then both overtake Nadal.
Nishi v Goffin shoudl be fun tomorrow.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:21 am

The slice BH is certainly aethetic as it is an effortless shot. And if well played can be deadly. But it is rather safe as you can guide the ball over the net as yuo hit through.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:26 am

Yes, it's a very interesting shot in the hands of players who know how to use it.

Extremely useful to SBH-ers  from any part of the court. Just that slower conditions discriminate against all-court tennis so we don't get to enjoy it as much.

Federer's one on grass is just aaaaaah....like the finest thread of silk.

But I suppose it's the safest BH shot of all. My point was that DBH-ers don't know how to use it properly to create, it's just another rallying shot of the waiting game for them.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:05 am

Match of the Day:

Nole-Dolgo
Thiem-Mannarino
Goffin-Nishi
Isner-Raonic (just ouch!)
Simn-Ferrer
Berdych-Monfils
Murray-Anderson
Monaco-Verdasco

Viva tennis diva

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:13 am

Another disappointing result for Dimi. I think he is starting to feel the pressure. his decline coincides with the media starting to big him up.

Nadal has a very good and efficient solutions to most other players and his confidence grew as he realised his energy was vastly superior to all other players.

Dimi however has no particular strength, besides some variety and flair....and that is difficult to produce under pressure.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

I saw a few points of Dimi-Isner.

Dimi actually tried to play like Fed, properly attack and volley, even on Isner's 2nd serve...but couldn't execute his volleys...that really put Fed's skill and current game into perspective (hats off a million times!).

So, it's a shame he lost as he seems to want to change his game, I suppose he relised baseline patrolling won't get him anywhere.

I hope he succeeds, grass is his best surface.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:19 am

yes but Isner kep on doing what he knows best. Big serves....big ground shots.....Dimi was a bit all over the place......that to me is proper lack of confidence.

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Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:23 am

Tenez wrote:Another disappointing result for Dimi. I think he is starting to feel the pressure. his decline coincides with the media starting to big him up.

Nadal has a very good and efficient solutions to most other players and his confidence grew as he realised his energy was vastly superior to all other players.

Dimi however has no particular strength, besides some variety and flair....and that is difficult to produce under pressure.
Not sure why he was ever bigged-up. His greatest asset is a superficial likeness to Federers game (something quickly dispelled once they started to arrive on the same court).

He's a strong argument against your theory that players are ever-better.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:40 am

He was bigged up by the media cause he has to sime extend the x factor.....more than Djoko for sure.

He is not an argument against my theory. He made the wrong choice young to go for SHBH. It's clear that no SHBH player can nowadays survive the barrage of DHBHer provided by the top players on those slower conditions. Only Federer has the sheer talent to get close and sometimes beat those top guys...but he has to have an excellent day and luck to achieve to do so.

Where the conds be faster, it might be a different story. (though this does not expplain his loss to Isner yesterday).

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:05 pm

Tenez wrote:yes but Isner kep on doing what he knows best. Big serves....big ground shots.....Dimi was a bit all over the place......that to me is proper lack of confidence.

I only saw one game at the end of first set, not the one Dimi got broken in.

I have always been saying Dimi's game was toothless anyway, while some were predicting multiple slam wins for him.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:07 pm

Talking of media bigging up, I am pretty sure his "relationship" with Sharapova is also fictional.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:18 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:yes but Isner kep on doing what he knows best. Big serves....big ground shots.....Dimi was a bit all over the place......that to me is proper lack of confidence.

I only saw one game at the end of first set, not the one Dimi got broken in.

I have always been saying Dimi's game was toothless anyway, while some were predicting multiple slam wins for him.
His variety is useless in this world. He would be much better under different conds but that is his problem!

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Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:01 pm

Tenez wrote:He was bigged up by the media cause he has to sime extend the x factor.....more than Djoko for sure.

He is not an argument against my theory. He made the wrong choice young to go for SHBH. It's clear that no SHBH  player can nowadays survive the barrage of DHBHer provided by the top players on those  slower conditions. Only Federer has the sheer talent to get close and sometimes beat those top guys...but he has to have an excellent day and luck to achieve to do so.

Where the conds be faster, it might be a different story. (though this does not expplain his loss to Isner yesterday).

I'm not talking about SHBH v DHBH, I'm talking about Dimitrov v Federer. Dimitrov is a child of the new physical game and going by what I've read elsewhere should be tanning Federers hide, but is obviously nowhere near him despite having great physical advantages.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:14 pm

You must have read the wrong articles cause I am actually one of the very few poster who thinks Federer has been improving over the last 10 years, keeping up with the younger players and if anything his improvement was often badly tempered by his back injury.

What I have been saying is that the new players have raised the game considerably since 2007 by being much fitter and having 2 solid shots from both wings. Dimi does not belong to that group as he is not particularly fit, nor does he have a DHBH.

Federer's talent allows him to do roughly what he wants. In that respect he has considerably improved, and that required him to drop that beautiful risky FH for a less flashy but more secured one.


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Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:59 pm

And in doing so taken a loss of weapon on that side.

I agree his technique is better than ever, but sadly his footspeed is a shadow of its former self, as is his stamina. In its place he has tried to end rallies more quickly but as we saw at Indian Wells, if the match goes a serious distance he is cooked.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:45 pm

I thought Fed's footwork is immaculate.
I love watching it.

It's exactly his intact footwork that's allowing him to still play his game.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:06 pm

The very fact Fed beat a healthy and fit Nole in Dubai fair and square is the proof all is still there.

Even during patches in IW he was able to whip him into his turbo pace, which is quite an achievement in this era.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:43 pm

Matches aready started!!!!

Mannarino-Thiem looks like a decent one, 4:4

I want Manna to do well, such an interesting, clever player.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:47 pm

bogbrush wrote:And in doing so taken a loss of weapon on that side.

I agree his technique is better than ever, but sadly his footspeed is a shadow of its former self, as is his stamina. In its place he has tried to end rallies more quickly but as we saw at Indian Wells, if the match goes a serious distance he is cooked.
You would have to have a pretty good pair of eyes to see that his footwork went down, though I agree when his back is troubling him (which is quite often nowadays) it is quite obvious. But on a good day, I would really challenge you to see it with a naked eye and as mentioned before, his sense of anticipation and experience of playing the same players over and over certainly helps compensate for that drop of pace if that.

Regarding his stamina, that has never been his forte. he had back in his hey days a poor 5 setter record. With the game becoming more and more physical I think things have only got worse for him as I suspect he is probably one of teh very few clean player on tour (if he is..)....while for some reasons some players get better as the match goes on. It is also well recorded that the long distance races such as marathon and TDF are mostly won by the athletes of 30 or more.
It is clearly down to the sport becoming more physical that we have less younger athletes at the top....unless they develop themselves a gladiator body as a teen....but even those are nowhere to be seen nowadays. The average age of the top 5 and top 10 player is about 29!

So I am not sure his stamina has declined much as teh combination of faster and longer rallies are certainly affectoing him quickly.

What I agree however is that a long match in a slam is going to kill his chances for the rest of teh tournament. His ability to recover quickly from a tough match is certainly going down. That's his problem today. He has done very well in his canada/Cincy stretch last year.....but that has clearly cost him the USO. That to me is the only time we can really see his age...in a negative sense.


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Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:34 pm

To recap what I said;

His foot speed is impaired. I agree his footwork is lovely.

Dubai helps him because it's faster and the rallies can stay shorter, so putting less stress on stamina.

Obviously in some rallies in Indian Wells he still does it. What can't be disputed is that by the 3rd he was done.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:53 pm

How is his footwork impaired?

He keeps winning matches, and that means he is getting to the ball on time.
The real problem is his chronic backache.

Most of us can relate to it and the last thing we'd want to do with it is play tennis, let alone the beastly physical game of today. But he goes out and often wins. And not just him.

Current tennis is very unforgiving.

10 years ago we didn't have so many long rallies, players were fresher.

Now...I don't know how they do it week in week out. Especially the very top that are always in quarters and semis.

Result: Federer not playing Miami. It's just too much.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:26 pm

Verdasco - Monaco playing clay tennis on a hard court.
Unbelievable.

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Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:37 pm

Is Verdasco playing better than a best-ever Nadal, and being  matched by an even better Monaco?

Or has Nadal declined?

Tough one.

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Post by DEC1M8 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:59 pm

Of course it's because Monaco is improving, they're all improving year on year, Nadal was good in 2013 and luckily for him massive improved for 2015, but by then Verdasco had improved even more, but unfortunately for Verdasco, Juan Monaco has today just reached tennis heights that have not been seen before, and the lack of full stops in this sentence perfectly represents the lack of logic in this reasoning

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:29 pm

Didn't Nadal beat Monaco the other week?

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:48 pm

bogbrush wrote:Is Verdasco playing better than a best-ever Nadal, and being  matched by an even better Monaco?

Or has Nadal declined?

Tough one.
Nadal is going through a confidence crisis....do you call this decline? Do people forget that Nadal has always been a clay player and only managed to be successful outside clay when they slow down the courts? Nadal was always vulnerable to a verdy..even in 09.....even though he happened to win that day.

Nadal lost to the most ridiculous players in the past as well...to suddenly come back pumped like never before and win everything.

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Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:29 pm

Miami is the most turgid 'hard court' imaginable. Nadal has enjoyed this pre-clay phase before.

Monaco is as bad as ever, a player who is no more than hitting practise for a top professional in any kind of shape. That he just beat Verdasco, who just beat a better-than-ever Nadal is........ implausible.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:04 pm

My internet rubbish again ( do not get Virgin broadband Grr)

Hopefully they'll fix it for Nole-Dolgo...

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:26 pm

bogbrush wrote:Miami is the most turgid 'hard court' imaginable. Nadal has enjoyed this pre-clay phase before.

Monaco is as bad as ever, a player who is no more than hitting practise for a top professional in any kind of shape. That he just beat Verdasco, who just beat a better-than-ever Nadal is........ implausible.
I find comparison based on A just beat B and B just beat C so A is better than C very shallow.

That Nadal is declining physically now at 29 is really absurd...especially beaten by someone 2 years older than him!

As if Nadal never struggled in the past! erm

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:29 pm

Today we are watching a great shot maker facing the most consistent player ever.....

Allez Dolgo!

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:34 pm

I am torn between Nishi and Djoko's match.

I want Goffin and Dolgo to win.

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Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:48 pm

Tenez wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Miami is the most turgid 'hard court' imaginable. Nadal has enjoyed this pre-clay phase before.

Monaco is as bad as ever, a player who is no more than hitting practise for a top professional in any kind of shape. That he just beat Verdasco, who just beat a better-than-ever Nadal is........ implausible.
I find comparison based on A just beat B and B just beat C so A is better than C very shallow.

That Nadal is declining physically now at 29 is really absurd...especially beaten by someone 2 years older than him!

As if Nadal never struggled in the past! erm
Perhaps you do, but this is only the latest example. 

I recall Nadal losing barely any sets on clay in a year. Are we to assume everyone who takes a set off him this year has got so much better?

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:54 pm

It's not about getting better or not. The fact is today the game played faster than 5 years ago. Players do cope with it or they don't. No one is waiting for a player to decline to take over.....otherwise maybe the musketeers were the best player ever....had not they declined!

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:56 pm

Djoko keeping the ball in court....is paying up...helped by some weird shot selection from Dolgo.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:20 pm

Finally got the broadband back!!!!
7:6, 3:0, Dolgo must be playing lights out!

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:24 pm

Tenez wrote:he is playing well....rushing Djoko around.

I was expecting that. He looked really keen in his yesterday's match which he was losing and then managed to turn around, let's hope he can keep this form for a long time.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:25 pm

Nole looks so slow co pared to Dolgo, quite funny.


Last edited by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:26 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Finally got the broadband back!!!!
7:6, 3:0, Dolgo must be playing lights out!
Ney! Djoko is over the hill!

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:27 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Finally got the broadband back!!!!
7:6, 3:0, Dolgo must be playing lights out!
Ney! Djoko is over the hill!

Laugh

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:30 pm

Djokovic volleying has really been exposed in this match.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:31 pm

I am now interested to see how Nole tries to work Dolgo out.
Dolgo is giving him no rhythm, so Nole is having to create, but Dolgo is so versatile and unpredictable, Nole clinging onto the cliff with his nails.
Quite interesting.


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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:33 pm

Tenez wrote:Djokovic volleying has really been exposed in this match.

I can see Dolgo is playing an awesome match, so quick, making Nole look so slow and average...pardon - old.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:33 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I am now interested to see how Nole tries to work Dolgo out.
Dolgo is giving him no rhythm, so Nole is having to create, but Dolgo is so versatile and unpredictable, Nole clinging onto the cliff with his nails.
Quite interesting.


Very easy by sending those long rallies and hoping Dolgo loses his edge. Djoko by producing a very consistent and good level. Nothing flashy!

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:35 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I am now interested to see how Nole tries to work Dolgo out.
Dolgo is giving him no rhythm, so Nole is having to create, but Dolgo is so versatile and unpredictable, Nole clinging onto the cliff with his nails.
Quite interesting.


Very easy by sending those long rallies and hoping Dolgo loses his edge. Djoko by producing a very consistent and good level. Nothing flashy!

Yes, that's the obvious one, but he hasn't been doing it since I started watching.

I'd love Dolgo to win the whole thing.
He is playing such wonderful free tennis.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:40 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I am now interested to see how Nole tries to work Dolgo out.
Dolgo is giving him no rhythm, so Nole is having to create, but Dolgo is so versatile and unpredictable, Nole clinging onto the cliff with his nails.
Quite interesting.


Very easy by sending those long rallies and hoping Dolgo loses his edge. Djoko by producing a very consistent and good level. Nothing flashy!
Told you! Nothing brilliant but asking the same questions again and again!

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:40 pm

You were right about the long rallies Sad

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:48 pm

I know I've said it before, but Dolgo's serve is something else...
I saw him in Boodles...the pace he generates is ridiculous, just by throwing himself into the shot, low ball toss...complete opposite from Berdych's or Delpo's serve.

This was a great game from him: he kept it simple with excellent FHs.

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Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:52 pm

Streaky though. Follows it by garbage.

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ATP Masters 1000: Miami - Page 6 Empty Re: ATP Masters 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:53 pm

did not help him in that last game! nice jinx N!

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ATP Masters 1000: Miami - Page 6 Empty Re: ATP Masters 1000: Miami

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:00 am

Tenez wrote:did not help him in that last game! nice jinx N!

Is that me?

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ATP Masters 1000: Miami - Page 6 Empty Re: ATP Masters 1000: Miami

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