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Australian Open 2015: Matches of the day : Day 3 21-Jan-2015

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:34 pm

Can someone plz pick tomorrow's MOTD.... my internet is going on-off...

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:53 pm

truffin1 wrote:He won't get past Murray or Nadal like this though.
I am hoping he can do a Wimby 2012...play through pain and the back eases in the final rounds.

I don't know if you guys get the same coverage as I do- but ESPN put up some interesting stats...   The comms I think got it wrong in saying it was the top 5 list of the fastest avg forehands at the AO among all players where I think it really was just how the big 4 and Stan happened to rate-  but Djokovics avg forehand speed was 81mph  where Feder, Nadal Murray and Stan were in the mid 70's...    A huge difference and bit of surprise imo.
  That's weird indeed. What it might be is that Djko is more consistent than the others from the baseline while Fed for instance might not always play the same shot from the FH. Regardless. I find the stat a bit strange.

Then the backhand list- Djoko also led with 69 or 70 and  Stan was next with 67,  Murray, Fed and Nadal at around 65 or so..   Again, Djoko seems to be a notch above these guys.
Weird. So if he hits the ball so hard why is he the one doing most of the retrieving?

Those were info I was looking for years ....and now they come and they seem weird.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:59 pm

truffin1 wrote:Funny you should say this--  Brad Gilbert during the Federer match was talking about Smy's chances and said he had been talking with him, and Smy was just happy to get a chance to play a legend, wanted to play his best, wanted to enjoy and soak it all in on center court, give Nadal a good match, etc... and Gilbert expertly pointed out that those were the words of someone who didn't expect to win, didn't believe he could win, and while nice to say-  is not the attitude you need to beat a Nadal or a Federer.    It reminds me of the movie Rocky-  if you guys know the story- at one point Rocky realizes he can't beat Creed and tells Adrian "I just want to go the distance" "If I can go the distance....I can prove I am somebody, not just some bum from the street"......     It's that little lack of killer instinct that seperates the upset from the close call.


Smy showed this big time with his actions and that sportsmanship to give Nadal the do over on serve.  Fans scream out during tennis matches and that's part of the game no matter how quiet its supposed to be.  Many times have I seen Fed serving through fans yelling and the match just continues, happens to all players.   It's nice and dandy that Smy did that, but he didn't need to and when you are fighting for a historical win, it's not something he should have done.  Certainly show good sportmasnhip by not showing the Nadal type gamesmanship to your opponent- it's wrong if you induce it, but if something like that happens and the umpire lets it go- play on.   Nadal would have not done the same for you. He's a guy who will call for a rain delay from a drop of rain on match point while his opponent is serving.
It was that bad that Smy should be banned for fixing! No kidding. Davy got more trouble for less. I'd be furious if I had put money on Smy!

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:04 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Nole's groundstrokes, esp FH are quite unique.
I've seen a lot of players from close up, and never anything like his.

It's not the cleanest and prettiest motion on the contact, where he seems to whip on extra spin the very last millisecond by twisting his wrist...but the result is excellent as he gets good penetration and great length.
he gets the angles more than anything.


And because he can also take the ball early it gives him so many options from the base-line unlike Nadal whose FH relies exclusively on the muscle. No talent needed to deal with the ball in its dying part of the curve. Just years of drill and a few "extras" to keep it going.
I don't think he takes the ball that early. Earlier than Nadal but quite on a par with the rest....I think.

So, with these modern strings Nole relies more on the spin, a bit of muscle and good timing, than the clean, pure contact like Nishi, which really is sheer exquisite talent.
I think his mouvement is the reason why he gets more pace. He is always on the ball with time to spare for a full swing.


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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:05 pm

Tenez wrote:
It was that bad that Smy should be banned for fixing! No kidding. Davy got more trouble for less. I'd be furious if I had put money on Smy!
Doh

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:06 pm

He should not be banned for fixing, please...

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Post by truffin1 on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:40 pm

Tenez wrote:
truffin1 wrote:He won't get past Murray or Nadal like this though.
I am hoping he can do a Wimby 2012...play through pain and the  back eases in the final rounds.

I don't know if you guys get the same coverage as I do- but ESPN put up some interesting stats...   The comms I think got it wrong in saying it was the top 5 list of the fastest avg forehands at the AO among all players where I think it really was just how the big 4 and Stan happened to rate-  but Djokovics avg forehand speed was 81mph  where Feder, Nadal Murray and Stan were in the mid 70's...    A huge difference and bit of surprise imo.
  That's weird indeed. What it might be is that Djko is more consistent than the others from the baseline while Fed for instance might not always play the same shot from the FH. Regardless. I find the stat a bit strange.

Then the backhand list- Djoko also led with 69 or 70 and  Stan was next with 67,  Murray, Fed and Nadal at around 65 or so..   Again, Djoko seems to be a notch above these guys.
Weird. So if he hits the ball so hard why is he the one doing most of the retrieving?

Those were info I was looking for years ....and now they come and they seem weird.


I agree- but that's the stats they had..   I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of Fed in the forehand and even backhand..  Gilbert mentioned that Federer slices as a higher percentage on the backhand and said something like "there are a lot of backbreaking low slices Federer is winning points with that are skewering the mph lower.     Djoko might just have a more consistent harder shot time after time to make the avg higher.

Also, playing at night vs. daytime will skewer things as well..   but that's what it was...   I'd prefer to see what it looks like over serveral matches though to get a real read.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:47 pm

Who was faster out of Nadal and Federer ?

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:58 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Who was faster out of Nadal and Federer ?

You don't need the measurement, can't you see how long Nadal's FH travels with that moon-ball curvatory?

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:09 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Nole's groundstrokes, esp FH are quite unique.
I've seen a lot of players from close up, and never anything like his.

It's not the cleanest and prettiest motion on the contact, where he seems to whip on extra spin the very last millisecond by twisting his wrist...but the result is excellent as he gets good penetration and great length.
he gets the angles more than anything.
he does, and that's your new technology type of modern variety: consistent percentage groundstrokes spiced up with angles to create space for putting the ball away safely in slow conditions.
Nole stands out here as he is the most consistent with the length.

As for the angles, I really liked his short, angled BH  I saw in RG this year, great shot!

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Post by truffin1 on Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:36 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Who was faster out of Nadal and Federer ?

Fed had faster forehand by 1mph and Nadal had faster backhand by 2mph.     

Stan has 2nd fastest backhand which the comms seemed impressed given it's a 1 hander..  they were all bunched together though- only Djoko stood out.

It was interesting, but must be kept in mind that that was stats for all of 1 match, and maybe part of fed's second match- I don't know if they were counting that real time.

Would be much cooler and I am hopeful ESPN will show that during the 2nd week if either make it that far.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:43 pm

Tenez wrote:
I don't think he takes the ball that early. Earlier than Nadal but quite on a par with the rest....I think.

Part 2 of my reply...
(The guy to give me the quote for fitting the new front door came a day early... and interrupted my "momentum" Winking  )

No, not on the rise like Nishi, but still manages to use opponent's pace. He takes it on the rise only against Nadal, because I suppose he has no choice standing on the base-line.
Also, Fed sends Nole different balls all the time both when attacking and often when defending or keeping the ball in play, so very tough against him as that unsettles Nole's rhythm and footwork.
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
So, with these modern strings Nole relies more on the spin, a bit of muscle and good timing, than the clean, pure contact like Nishi, which really is sheer exquisite talent.
I think his mouvement is the reason why he gets more pace. He is always on the ball with time to spare for a full swing.

Yes, he says it himself: he loves his surfaces neither too fast nor too slow.
He has brilliant court coverage due to his elasticity as well as great natural athleticism, but if I am nit-picking, both Fed and Nadal have superior tennis footwork.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:07 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:Who was faster out of Nadal and Federer ?

Fed had faster forehand by 1mph and Nadal had faster backhand by 2mph.     
That doesn't seem right ?

Even as a Nadal fan I acknowledge that Federer's pace of shot is faster than Nadal's if you take the average of both forehands and backhands.
I thought Nadal and Djokovic would be closer, in terms of speed.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:19 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:Who was faster out of Nadal and Federer ?

Fed had faster forehand by 1mph and Nadal had faster backhand by 2mph.     
That doesn't seem right ?

Even as a Nadal fan I acknowledge that Federer's pace of shot is faster than Nadal's if you take the average of both forehands and backhands.
I thought Nadal and Djokovic would be closer, in terms of speed.

Speed comes either from your opponent's pace which you send back by taking the ball early or by muscling the ball, i.e. Taking the big swing and hitting it hard.

Many players now muscle the ball and get the pace without talent becuse they can't take the ball early like  Nishi. That's pure talent.

Nadal is the other end of the spectrum...he does not take the ball early,  but as late as possible so he minimises the need for risk of mistiming which he then has to compensate with his extra big muscle and tons of spin to make that massive bash land in.
It's no magic, just a skill he acquired by years of repetitive, drill. And it is very, very physically exhausting for him, not just his opponents who have to soak up that unnatural energy.
He has to create his own pace and probably needs at least three times more wnergy for his FH than, say Nishi.
If he could hit the ball on the rose with those muscles he'd have the mega monster FH!

Murray pulls them like that CC but very rarely.

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Post by truffin1 on Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:58 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:Who was faster out of Nadal and Federer ?

Fed had faster forehand by 1mph and Nadal had faster backhand by 2mph.     
That doesn't seem right ?

Even as a Nadal fan I acknowledge that Federer's pace of shot is faster than Nadal's if you take the average of both forehands and backhands.
I thought Nadal and Djokovic would be closer, in terms of speed.

I assume ESPN has the ability to accurately measure, but I will say it again-  numbers are based on 1 match maybe some of feds 2nd...   Nadal could have been pounding the ball in the 1st match and Fed hitting at 3/4 speed with angle..   Fed was playing at night, Nadal in the faster day time...     It's interesting numbers to see, but I would think we need to see over a long stretch to mean much.
 
Same goes for Djoko- does he really hit 5,6mph faster than Federer, Stan, Nadal and Murray on avg? I seriously doubt it over a long stretch of matches., but in that 1st round match he did

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:11 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:Who was faster out of Nadal and Federer ?

Fed had faster forehand by 1mph and Nadal had faster backhand by 2mph.     
That doesn't seem right ?

Even as a Nadal fan I acknowledge that Federer's pace of shot is faster than Nadal's if you take the average of both forehands and backhands.
I thought Nadal and Djokovic would be closer, in terms of speed.

I assume ESPN has the ability to accurately measure, but I will say it again-  numbers are based on 1 match maybe some of feds 2nd...   Nadal could have been pounding the ball in the 1st match and Fed hitting at 3/4 speed with angle..   Fed was playing at night, Nadal in the faster day time...     It's interesting numbers to see, but I would think we need to see over a long stretch to mean much.
 
Same goes for Djoko- does he really hit 5,6mph faster than Federer, Stan, Nadal and Murray on avg? I seriously doubt it over a long stretch of matches., but in that 1st round match he did
Yes, fair points.
I guess if you look at the average over a long period of time, you'd have Federer top just above Djoko, who would be just above Nadal.

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Post by Autumnleaf on Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:31 pm

What a shocker of a match from Nadal there. I don't usually watch his matches, but I looked into the second set. High number of UFE, a more decent opponent would have taken him to the woodshed today. Now I really wonder about the ability of his team to recover him in 2 days. This was an extremely physical fivesetter of more than average length and it must get tougher for Nadal all the time.

Pity, he's got Sela as his next opponent, who might not be able to test him. To be sure I had thought that about Smyczek too. A Troicki might be more dangerous to him than I had thought.

About his bald patches: not only balding, but looking weird, like a man threetimes the age of Nadal. Almost gotta pity him sometimes (the disgusted look Tio threw him after another UFE), until he starts with his antics.

Berd and Murray cruising through, hard to gauge their level with their opponents not testing them. Very likely that Murray will take Fed out with the show Fed is putting on so far, that is if he even makes QF. He might be lucky, Seppi took Chardy out. Thought he had little pace on the groundstrokes today. 

Wrt the stats: without context they are rather worthless, but it's certainly true that Fed and Murray vary the pace way stronger than Djokovic.

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