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Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

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Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by laverfan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:53 am

Inspired by JHM's (my fellow moderator on 606v2) quote

"In fact, the coincidence of the same two players meeting in the 1st round in consecutive Wimbledons has occurred eight times since 1970."

I wanted to find the eight instances, and possibly near misses.

Consecutive Years @Wimbledon with same R1 matches

YearPlayerIDPlayerNameOpponentPlayerIDOpponentNameATP Verification Link
1970M144McManus, JimR055Riessen, Martyhttp://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=R055&oId=M144
1971R055Riessen, MartyM144McManus, Jim
1988S288Saceanu, ChristianR016Reneberg, Richeyhttp://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=R016&oId=S288
1989R016Reneberg, RicheyS288Saceanu, Christian
1990M035Mattar, LuizM338Matsuoka, Shuzohttp://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=M035&oId=M338
1991M338Matsuoka, ShuzoM035Mattar, Luiz
1993W035Woodforde, MarkM338Matsuoka, Shuzohttp://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=W035&oId=M338
1994M338Matsuoka, ShuzoW035Woodforde, Mark
2000S604Sa, AndreP398Parmar, Arvindhttp://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=S604&oId=P398
2001S604Sa, AndreP398Parmar, Arvind
2006B896Becker, BenjaminC514Chela, Juan Ignaciohttp://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=C514&oId=B896
2007B896Becker, BenjaminC514Chela, Juan Ignacio
2007G569Ginepri, RobbyG415Gonzalez, Fernandohttp://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=G569&oId=G415
2008G569Ginepri, RobbyG415Gonzalez, Fernando
2010M873Mahut, NicolasI186Isner, Johnhttp://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=I186&oId=M873
2011I186Isner, JohnM873Mahut, Nicolas

There are two additional interesting facts that emerged from this research.

1. Ginepri v Gonzalez turns out even more of an interesting coincidence. W 2007, RG 2008, W 2008.

2. Shuzo Matsuoka (JPN) has figured in two separate instances in this consecutive matrix, with Mark Woodforde and Luiz Mattar.

The Player IDs are from ATP (not ITF), and the ATP Verification links (H2H) have the same player IDs.

Non-Consecutive R1 matches
YearPlayerIDPlayerNameOpponentPlayerIDOpponentName
1970P074Pattison, AndrewV049Van Dillen, Erik
1976V049Van Dillen, ErikP074Pattison, Andrew
1971M111McMillan, FrewS103Sakai, Toshiro
1973S103Sakai, ToshiroM111McMillan, Frew
1971C020Case, RossS123Simpson, Jeff
1974S123Simpson, JeffC020Case, Ross
1976M118Moore, RaymondE005Edmondson, Mark
1978E005Edmondson, MarkM118Moore, Raymond
1976D074Dent, PhilL036Lloyd, John
1981L036Lloyd, JohnD074Dent, Phil
1977C044Connors, JimmyL025Lewis, Richard
1980L025Lewis, RichardC044Connors, Jimmy
1977V049Van Dillen, ErikP059Panatta, Adriano
1980P059Panatta, AdrianoV049Van Dillen, Erik
1977D048Dupre, PatS058Smid, Tomas
1981S058Smid, TomasD048Dupre, Pat
1979E005Edmondson, MarkA022Amritraj, Vijay
1983A022Amritraj, VijayE005Edmondson, Mark
1983F030Fleming, PeterB021Bates, Jeremy
1987F030Fleming, PeterB021Bates, Jeremy
1984B021Bates, JeremyM092Motta, Cassio
1989B021Bates, JeremyM092Motta, Cassio
1987G022Goldie, DanE025Evernden, Kelly
1989E025Evernden, KellyG022Goldie, Dan
1988F035Forget, GuyE004Edberg, Stefan
1996E004Edberg, StefanF035Forget, Guy
1992S331Stoltenberg, JasonH223Haarhuis, Paul
1994S331Stoltenberg, JasonH223Haarhuis, Paul
1993P226Pioline, CedricD214Damm, Martin
1999D214Damm, MartinP226Pioline, Cedric
1994C274Chang, MichaelC378Costa, Albert
1996C378Costa, AlbertC274Chang, Michael
1995B484Burgsmuller, LarsB446Bjorkman, Jonas
2001B446Bjorkman, JonasB484Burgsmuller, Lars
1996R255Rafter, PatrickV141Vacek, Daniel
2001V141Vacek, DanielR255Rafter, Patrick
1996C328Carlsen, KennethL290Lapentti, Nicolas
2003C328Carlsen, KennethL290Lapentti, Nicolas
1999C487Clement, ArnaudP305Portas, Albert
2006P305Portas, AlbertC487Clement, Arnaud
2005A479Almagro, NicolasT315Tursunov, Dmitry
2007T315Tursunov, DmitryA479Almagro, Nicolas
2005B747Benneteau, JulienK316Kiefer, Nicolas
2008K316Kiefer, NicolasB747Benneteau, Julien
2005M762Melzer, JurgenL360Ljubicic, Ivan
2008L360Ljubicic, IvanM762Melzer, Jurgen
2007K435Kohlschreiber, PhilippS963Serra, Florent
2009K435Kohlschreiber, PhilippS963Serra, Florent


I did not put verification links for the non-consecutive matches, but they can be found on the ATP website. (The adventurous posters can try building the URL using the player IDs in this table and use the first table links as an example).

I will take a look at other slams, in the next few weeks. Winking

Anyone interested can build probabilities for such occurrences. Laugh

All data from unreliable and unverified ATP Website. E&OE. Please note that this is posted, with minor edits to suit a specific website, on 606v2 and MTL .


Last edited by laverfan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Amended with missing entries (Bates v Motta, Carlsen v Lapentti, Fleming v Bates, Kohlschreiber v Serra))

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by summerblues on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:14 am

laverfan wrote:with minor edits to suit a specific website
LOL

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by laverfan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:20 am

summerblues wrote:
laverfan wrote:with minor edits to suit a specific website
LOL

I am glad that you like my sense of humour. Hug (I am old, but not senile, at least yet Winking ). You can read a different version on 606v2 or non-table version on MTL.

PS: Did you get your new Internet connection?

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by summerblues on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:44 am

My internet installation is scheduled for next Saturday (I only ordered it yesterday after I got too frustrated trying to get FiOS) so the first week I will have to survive on my DSL. Thanks for asking.

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by Tenez on Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:24 am

What is your point here or JHM's?

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:29 am

I have a feeling if I told you it was my birthday tomorrow, you 'd draw a chart and try to prove it's not! Laugh

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by laverfan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:51 am

Tenez wrote:What is your point here or JHM's?

Interesting. "Rare" events happen more frequently than people intuitively expect them.

Winking

noleisthebest wrote:I have a feeling if I told you it was my birthday tomorrow, you 'd draw a chart and try to prove it's not! Laugh

Why would I draw a chart for something you consider a fact, or, for example, Draw Rigging/Fixing which is also a fact, correct? Laugh


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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by Tenez on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:17 am

Having 2 players playing against each other consecutively in the first round is not a particularly rare event. We have 64 matches in the first round and 128 players. For a player A to play player B, it's one chance in 127 (let's forget about seeding and the variation of players entering). But since we have 64 chance each year, the chance of 2 same players meeting in the first round consecutively is roughly 50% per first round draw....which you data actually show. So certainly not a rare event!

But that's very different from "wanting" player A and player B to meet which is 1/127.

Now the question is was there any vested interest by the Wimbledon organisers to spice the first round matches by trying to reproduce the previous year epic between Mahut and Isner?

If not they have been really lucky cause the chance of this happening would have been 1/127....so you may have to wait 127 years to make it a "normal" occurence!!!

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:47 am

SB & LF,

since you are pretty local, any plans for visiting USO and sending us some first-hand stories ?

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by laverfan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:56 am

noleisthebest wrote:SB & LF,

since you are pretty local, any plans for visiting USO and sending us some first-hand stories ?

I was planning to go this years, but the tickets did not work out. Grr

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by Tenez on Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:03 am

LF - Do you sleep sometimes?

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:09 am

laverfan wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:SB & LF,

since you are pretty local, any plans for visiting USO and sending us some first-hand stories ?

I was planning to go this years, but the tickets did not work out.

That's a shame. Do fill us out on the local atmosphere when you can though do New Yorkers love it as much as we do Wimbledon?

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by laverfan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:01 pm

It is more like a carnival, especially in the night matches. Winking

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:14 pm

laverfan wrote:It is more like a carnival, especially in the night matches.

It definitely seems a compete contrast to Wimbledon, Arthur Ashe looks like a place where it's only worth going to if you have a decent ticket, which has just reminded me I need to fill out that form for the ballot, I may get a ticket for next year....knowing my luck it would be for court 18 where Isner will be drawn against Mahut

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by laverfan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:03 pm

noleisthebest wrote:....knowing my luck it would be for court 18 where Isner will be drawn against Mahut

The spectators will also be given a reward for sitting through the 3-day match. Laugh

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by summerblues on Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:36 am

noleisthebest wrote:SB & LF,

since you are pretty local, any plans for visiting USO and sending us some first-hand stories ?

Not this year no Sad. Also, I find that when it really comes down to it, I prefer watching tennis (or most sports for that matter) on TV. The viewing angle pretty consistent from match to match, slow-motion replays, close-ups with multiple angles, commentary (esp when good) etc just trump watching live action for me.

For me, going to the USO is more fun during the early rounds - but that is just as much for the atmosphere as tennis itself. There are lots of people everywhere, plenty of matches on outer courts, the place is just buzzing with action. I went to the USO final match once only (Roger vs Andre) but by then most of the complex looks like a fair that is just closing down. And as far as the tennis action itself goes - as I said, I find I get to follow it better on TV.

So now if I ever go I try to go sometime around the first weekend - by then you start getting some decent matches involving seeds but you still have lots of action all over the place.

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:02 am

Apparently, it's become fun/popular watching qualifying rounds: more and more people are in the stands, average 7000, entrance is still free, plus you can catch the "big" names in practice smiley

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by sphairistike on Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:57 am

I'm lucky enough to have nice seats this year for this Thursday night session on Ashe, so fingers crossed Fed will be playing! Good Luck to me! Winking
One of my friends who had tickets for next Wednesday for the quarters is bringing his sister instead of me Cry If it was a girlfriend I'd understand but it is his sister and she is a Nadal fan Angry He is a Federer fan like me! Go figure...
Anyways, I'm excited for this Thursday! smiley

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:01 pm

sphairistike wrote:I'm lucky enough to have nice seats this year for this Thursday night session on Ashe, so fingers crossed Fed will be playing! to me!
One of my friends who had tickets for next Wednesday for the quarters is bringing his sister instead of me If it was a girlfriend I'd understand but it is his sister and she is a Nadal fan He is a Federer fan like me! Go figure...
Anyways, I'm excited for this Thursday!


Great!
Have a super time and don't forget to cheer for Nole

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by sphairistike on Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:06 pm

If he is playing I will! I'd love to see Federer bagel him in the final and beat him to win the USO for a record breaking 6th time! Good Luck

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by Tenez on Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:13 pm

sphairistike wrote:If he is playing I will! I'd love to see Federer bagel him in the final and beat him to win the USO for a record breaking 6th time!

I am with you on that one!

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by laverfan on Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:44 pm

Tenez wrote:LF - Do you sleep sometimes?

I can survive with a couple of hours, typically. Winking

sphairistike wrote: Anyways, I'm excited for this Thursday!

Very nice. Hope you enjoy night session on Ashe. The music can be loud. Winking

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

Post by Tenez on Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:49 pm

laverfan wrote:
Tenez wrote:LF - Do you sleep sometimes?

I can survive with a couple of hours, typically.

THat's what I gathered. From 10am to 12pm BST! THat's about 5am to 7am your time!

I'd be dead by now.

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Re: Draw Coincidences - Wimbledon - 1969-2012 (Open Era Only)

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