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ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

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ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:46 pm



An exciting week of indoor tennis is ahead of us, featuring all top players apart from Novak Djokovic. 
Last three places for the WTF still being fought for, although with the likely withdrawal from Nadal, it seems both Ferrer and Murray will qualify.



ATP 500 BASEL, indoor hard:

Roger Federer, who once served as a ball boy at the Swiss Indoors Basel, fittingly became the first player to win five titles at his hometown tournament in 2011. Switzerland’s leading sport event boasts an impressive list of former champions, including tennis Hall of Famers Bjorn Borg, Ivan Lendl, John McEnroe, Boris Becker, Stefan Edberg and Pete Sampras.


Players: 
Federer, Nadal, Wawrinka, Gulbis, Dimitrov, Raonic, Thiem, Goffin
Draw:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2014/328/mds.pdf
Order of Play:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2014/328/op.pdf





ATP 500 VALENCIA, indoor hard

The Valencia tournament was reborn in 2009, transitioning from a spring clay court event to an indoor hard court ATP World Tour 500 tournament held in the second-to-last week of the regular season. With its new calendar position, the Valencia Open serves as a prime battleground for the men’s best tennis players as they attempt to qualify for the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals.


Players:
Ferrer, Nishikori, Simon, F. Lopez, Berdych, Murray, Agut, Fognini, Cilic, Isner
Draw:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2014/573/mds.pdf
Order of Play:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2014/573/op.pdf

A first round cracker: Simon-Dolgopolov

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by truffin1 on Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:05 pm

My goodness, what a joke draw Nadal got.   If he can't make it to the final to play Federer, he has no excuse, appendix in or out.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:58 pm

truffin1 wrote:My goodness, what a joke draw Nadal got.   If he can't make it to the final to play Federer, he has no excuse, appendix in or out.
Trust him to make a slugfest of that draw regardless.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:30 pm

Basel draw was very slow and late compared to Valencia, I bet Toni was wrangling and bargaining with the TD throwing the last minute ultimatum...and got his way.

Let's hope Nadal plays a decent qualifier in round one.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by truffin1 on Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:54 pm

Nadal potentially gets two qualifiers in 1st two rounds and boom- he's in quarters against Goffin..  lol...

theory is he's just there to fulfill the contract which he skipped out on past two years.  I wouldn't mind seeing him and Federer on this court though.

Interesting- Fed practiced on clay all this week in anticipation of the DC Final- shows how serious he's taking it- possibly hurting his chances in these last hardcourts and #1 ranking to get the DC for Switzerland.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:36 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I bet Toni was wrangling and bargaining with the TD throwing the last minute ultimatum...and got his way.
http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t734-why-i-don-t-think-the-draw-rigging-theory-holds-up-to-scrutiny

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:47 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I bet Toni was wrangling and bargaining with the TD throwing the last minute ultimatum...and got his way.
http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t734-why-i-don-t-think-the-draw-rigging-theory-holds-up-to-scrutiny
http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t20-draw-fixing-an-official-study

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:54 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I bet Toni was wrangling and bargaining with the TD throwing the last minute ultimatum...and got his way.
http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t734-why-i-don-t-think-the-draw-rigging-theory-holds-up-to-scrutiny
http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t20-draw-fixing-an-official-study
That's a study of a specific conspiracy, my OP was about not only that by draw rigging in general; (i.e. your post above), and why it's a pretty weak.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by truffin1 on Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:17 pm

Guys: I worked for a lot of athletes in several major sports, and I can't name one sport that doesn't "Fix" or weight things in favor of what will bring in the most money.  It's just a part of the business and anyone who doesn't think tennis is a business just like the others is mindnumbingly naïve..   Just like those who think that tennis is clean from Peds while all the other sports that actually try to catch cheaters are catching them left and right.  It's called human nature, it's called greed- and it's insane to think somehow Tennis is somehow filled with the purest people on earth and doesn't have these issues. 

Look at boxing and the "champions" benefit of doubt in scoring, look at the NFL schedule some time and tell me how the biggest ratings matchups just happen to fall on certain weeks year in and year out when the NFL says the schedule is randomly drawn based on conferences-  OF COURSE- tennis tries to create the best money making matchups.

Each tournament is basically a privately owned company that is in the business of making the most money they can for the week or two weeks it's held. That's the whole goal- it's not about continuing the purity of competition- it's about setting up the biggenst money makers matches you can within reason. So where they can- they help. I'm on the board of Premier Level WTA tourney who's home is my club.  The joke at the club is how the clay changes the way it plays depending on which top player enters the tournament each year. It's a different surface when the Williams are the stars, different when Wozniaki and Sharapova were the biggest names there.  IT's absoulutely tweaked to help the bigger draws.

We know at Basel that Nadal signed a big contract when the TD thought Federer was going to pull out after his contract ended and they had a falling out.  We know that Federer showed up last year with no contract and no appearance money and played for the love of the tournament while Nadal couldn't show up because of injury.  Federer then signed a contract that does pay him a fair appearance fee but the tournament can not use his name and image in certain advertising,etc in exchange for him playing for the reduced fee. So Nadal is who the tournament is advertising with.   How much you want to bet that the surface this years plays slower and higher bouncing to help Nadal? Anyone?

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:56 pm

Truffin, do you think they take part in draw rigging, and how do you think they cover it up ? Draw ceremonies are live normally.

Edit: Answer on the specific draw rigging thread rather than here where it's slightly out of topic.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:33 pm

Order of play out for tomorrow:

Nadal-Bolleli (he has been playing quite well this year, still...)
Thiem- Goffin
Herbert-Vasselin

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:45 pm

Two players I really like playing each other early on Sad bugger/

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by DECIMA on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:46 pm

luvsports! wrote:Two players I really like playing each other early on Sad bugger/
Didn't know you were a Bolleli fan Blush

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:52 pm

I hate those Latinos! Miserable slant-eyesausage eating swine! 

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by truffin1 on Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:26 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Order of play out for tomorrow:

Nadal-Bolleli (he has been playing quite well this year, still...)
Thiem- Goffin
Herbert-Vasselin


Nadals quote from prepresser.   "This might be the toughest 1st round opponent I have had in my career"    Is he insane?

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by DECIMA on Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:44 pm

Wait are you sure he said that in the context you imply ?

Seems bizarre I must say.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:00 am

Match of the day:

Simon-Dolgopolov


I saw a few points of Nadal-Bolelli yesterday...Bolelli clearly couldn't deal with Nadal's ball, so it was not even a light training for Nadal who still managed to sweat and look like he was ploughing a field by hand.

He is playing Pierre-Herbert tomorrow and I am excited about that match as PH is a very promising young player with a great attitude and even better serve.
I haven't seen him since last year in Bercy where he made a few rounds playing some nice tennis.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:36 pm

So Dolgo demolished Simon 6:0 6:3.
Hopefully Simon is not injured and Dolgo had one of those crazy days when everything worked.
He is playing Chardy tomorrow, yumm-eeeee!

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:12 pm

Well Stan lost....AGAIN! Sad

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:19 pm

Last time I looked, he was still playing... 0:3 down in the 3rd, though, ranging from brilliant to horrible all in one game...plus what a bag of nerves he is!
He may come back, but Kuku is not giving him much time to set up.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:27 pm

Stan breaks back!
Serving at 2:3 diva

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:34 pm

ur way behind nitb, he lost it 6-3

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:35 pm

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Scores/Scores-and-Stats.aspx?completed=1&from=topnav

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:37 pm

This is weird!
Tennistv was showing Stan-Kuku as a live match until 2 mns ago...
And literally just now switched to Pospisil-Nieminen....I feel like I've just spent half an hour in the black hole Yikes

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:06 am

Match of the day:

PH Herbert-Nadal Allez!!!! diva

also playing today:

Federer-Muller
Murray-Melzer
Gulbis-Coric (the new name on the block, a very young Croation)
Ferrer-Seppi
Golubev-Gabashvilli

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by Autumnleaf on Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:47 pm

@NITB just watching into your match of the day, but it's disappointing... no surprise there though really since it's featuring Nadal. 

The young Frenchman not at all up to the task, doublefaulting every other point and handing Nadal two breaks so far. What a draw this guy got! Makes it hard to not believe in rigging. And as always the crowd cheering for the opponent, they got rather quiet after the breaks. At least I got lucky enough to witness the great atmosphere of a Nadal defeat. Big Grin

Gulbis out already too, since the FO he hasn't shown anything... though his forehand does not look a weapon indoors especially, very error prone. Raonic still looking bad after his sickness, serves with low percentage.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:07 pm

6:1 3:1 Sad

At last  have some time to watch, and Nadal throws a DF.
Allez Pierre! diva

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:10 pm

I feel sorry for Herbert, the court+ balls are ridiculously bouncy, he can't deal with it even 2m behind the baseline.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:13 pm

And Herbert's excellent serve has completely abandoned him.
11 DFs.
3 in a row for 5:1 lead to Nadal...what a shame.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:24 pm

Just saw the rest of today's scores, Berd's out in round one!
That is making the race for the last few WTF spots extra interesting now!
With Murray, Ferrer, Raonic & Dimitrov all in Basel/Valencia, we will have to wait for Paris for the final 8.

1 Novak Djokovic SRB 9010 - - - - -
2 Roger Federer SUI 8020 - Basel R32 - 8065 8520
3 Rafael Nadal ESP 6790 - Basel R16 - 6835 7245
4 Stan Wawrinka SUI 4805 - - Lost in Basel R32 - -
World Tour Finals Qualification Cut 4545
5 Kei Nishikori JPN 4265 - - - - -
6 Marin Cilic CRO 4150 - - - - -
7 Tomas Berdych CZE 4105 - - Lost in Valencia R32 - -
8 Andy Murray GBR 3885 - Valencia R16 - 3885 4295
9 Milos Raonic CAN 3795 +1 Basel R16 - 3840 4250
10 David Ferrer ESP 3775 -1 Valencia R16 - 3775 4185
11 Grigor Dimitrov BUL 3555 - Basel R32 - 3555 3965

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:28 pm

Nadal looked physically fully fit in that match.
I am not convinced he will skip WTF.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:49 pm

Women are playing their version of WTF in Singapore this week, and it's quite satisfying to see Halep trounce Serena 6:0 6:2, as well as Ivanovic convincingly defeat Bouchard.

Ana has been playing some very nice tennis recently, but Halep's match must have been stg special, even Serena had to admit the loss is embarrassing, which is quite something coming from her.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:57 pm

I'll make sure I get to see Fed-Muller from the very start.
Basel crowd showed some amazing love to Fed last year when he needed it most & looked like a bird with a broken wing after the difficult 2013.
It must be lovely to play in your own home-town like that.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:29 pm

Super tennis from Federer 5:2.

The ease with which he deals with big servers is impressive.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:37 pm

6:2. Everything looking tuned in and smooth.
BH rock solid.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:54 pm

Can't watch! I am in meeting all day and only back to the UK sat am! erm

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:02 pm

Oh, T... Sad

That was a bit of a special one from Fed: sharp, playful, fresh - it was all there!
Hopefully you'll get to see him lift the trophy at the weekend.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:23 pm

With a win vs Rafa Big Grin fingers crossed. If not over Goffin who beats rafa! Big Grin

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:30 pm

Dimi-Zverev looking interesting.
One set all, but the young Russian looking good for a 17 year old, better than Dimi, in fact - there is some purpose in his game.

Funny to see a new generation challenge the " new" generation.
Zverev, also a Nike protege, tall, lanky, thin, baby -faced, Dimi had better watch out!

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:49 pm

He's a german btw.
But yes the so called "new" generation, such a loose term for the word, are making inroads on the top 10 but not really slams bar Nishi (just a year younger than delpo!) at the US. 
Raonic (1990), dimi (1991), nishi (1989), Goffin (1990), JJ (1990), Tomic (1992). I don't care for the "ic" endings :P
Some genuine young prospects as in teens!
Zverev, Kozlov, Coric, Kyrgios maybe Kokkinakis & Garin with Vesely & Thiem a bit older.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:08 pm

Isn't he Misha Zverev's baby brother?
They are German only on paper.

He was very good, just ran out of steam in the end, but was the better player. Hopefully, he'll get a good coach and continue to work on his game, but clearly has some talent and a steady head on those shoulders.
Dimi loved those extra long rallies, didn't he?
That last one must've had at least 30 shots...

That much for the " baby-Fed" ticket!

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:18 pm

Tbh, there are many good young players, but it's hard for them to mature naturally in this physical era.
I still can't imagine Dimi or Raonic win a slam!
I keep thinking someone else will come and leapfrog them.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:46 pm

Some good matches tomorrow!

Dolgopolov-Chardy
Murray-Fognini
Golubev-Coric
Fed-.....does it matter? (ok, Istomin)

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by truffin1 on Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:57 am

I would love to hear Amrit thoughts on why the court is playing so different than the 10 years I've been watching Basel. Slowest I've ever seen it and balls bouncing like on springs. All of a sudden on the first year nadal shows up under his contract while fed plays without one.

No, the td's don't try and help the golden gooses....smh

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:09 am

truffin1 wrote:I would love to hear Amrit thoughts on why the court is playing so different than the 10 years I've been watching Basel.  Slowest I've ever seen it and balls bouncing like on springs.   All of a sudden on the first year nadal shows up under his contract while fed plays without one.

No, the td's don't try and help the golden gooses....smh
I haven't watched much of Basel in the past, and I've just watched a few matches here so I can't claim to know the exact speeds in different years; but it's clear that tournament directors have influence of the speed and bounce of courts, no one is claiming the court speeds up or slows down by magic. Players however should play on the court they're on and try their best regardless.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:18 am

Kim Jong-Un wrote:....Players however should play on the court they're on and try their best regardless.

A bit simplistic as an answer. Players should not be playing on the court tailored for Nadal. A court shoudl be neutral.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:33 am

Tenez wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:....Players however should play on the court they're on and try their best regardless.

A bit simplistic as an answer. Players should not be playing on the court tailored for Nadal. A court shoudl be neutral.

Yes, I think that's what they try to do in O2 by making the bounce low despite the slow surface.
In Basel, it looks it's more balls than the court.

What always fascinates me is how different players make the same conditions look faster or slower with their style of play.
Nadal is a master of slowing down even the slowest surface.
Fed and Muller made itook quite decent yesterday, but still far from proper fast.

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by truffin1 on Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:45 pm

So, amri, of you admit t.d.'s slow or speed up court conditions to favor a top player ( in order to give help to them to win, play more rounds, so more money in tournament box office) why is it impossible for you to move that realization to tournament directors tweaking draws so that the top players get a little help to play more rounds and bring the tournament more money? One action is not worse than the other- the player still has to play the surface and draw-, it's just a way for the business (tourny) to keep the product that sells on the shelf longer

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by ... on Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:48 pm

Wow, Coric beat Golub in straight sets!

Apparently, Nadal is his hero and he gets to play him tomorrow....

Happy to see Chardy win, but sad Dolgo lost as I never got the chance too see him since tennistv didn't show non central court matches which is quite annoying - it was reserved for boring Spaniards  Angry
Hopefully they will show Chardy tomorrow, I have become a fan of his FH this Wimbledon racket2

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Re: ATP 500: Basel, Valencia

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:02 pm

truffin1 wrote:  why is it impossible for you to move that realization to tournament directors tweaking draws so that the top players get a little help to play more rounds and bring the tournament more money?  
I certainly didn't say it's impossible, but at this point the specific claims being made by Tenet & NITB were very poor, even for circumstantial evidence.
I made more points on this on the thread itself expanding on the further.

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