Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Keywords

edberg  GOAT  davis  

Latest topics
» The End od Internet Neutrality?
Today at 11:55 am by Tenez

» The doping program joke of the ITF!!!
Today at 11:08 am by noleisthebest

» Federer taps in BBC award
Today at 10:43 am by bogbrush

» This Is What A Feminist Looks Like
Yesterday at 7:22 am by bogbrush

» I Have A Question
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:37 pm by noleisthebest

» The Ultimate GOAT List
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:17 pm by Tenez

» The Best Shot Of The Year!
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:59 pm by noleisthebest

» Djoko takes Stepanek on
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:53 pm by noleisthebest

» Nadal whines over surface match ups with Federer in 2017
Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:44 pm by noleisthebest

December 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031

Calendar Calendar

Affiliates
free forum


Feds doping?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:36 pm

Thanks LS.
I didn't have time to read the whole article, but it looks quite interesting.
I would be neither shocked nor surprised if Fed was doping despite the fact his game does not rely on outrunning and outlasting.

But because I/we know so little about what doping can do these days, it's hard to be sure about not such obvious cases.

All I can say, it's very very hard to play day in day out, week in week out, especially now.
Everyone is so physical.
No matter how fit and strong you are, those long rallies really take it out of you.

The real problem is not whether Federer is doping, it's the authorities who have allowed Nadal to go unchecked and turned the blind eye on his time between the points, on Fuentes case, on rigging draws, on slowing down tournaments...
Just like Williams sisters have ruined women's tennis, Nadal has done the same to men's.

Justine Henin had to retire before her time.
Fed is still standing, and may he long continue.

noleisthebest

Posts : 25144
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:14 am

Well if he dopes....he is not very good at it. One of the worst 5 setter record amongst the greats...despite his superior talent and inflicting running more than running himself.

Tenez

Posts : 17432
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by luvsports! on Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:52 am

I like to think with all the work ive done on this topic that i am fairly objective and clear sighted on this issue. That kinda goes out the window with Feds. I can't help it, I'm a massive fan. He got me into tennis (personally Winking ). He made me love the sport. If he were on drugs it would be agony for me.
But then I don't see it as much compared to say robredo or ferrer. Toughy. Part of me thinks he is but I don't want it to be true.

luvsports!

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-09-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:26 am

Yes, but!
When you fell in love with tennis watching Fed, it was his tennis skill and the way he played it that attracted you.
Even if Fed doped, and you took the dope away - he'd still play the same magnificent game.
If you took dope away from Nadal, he wouldn't even feature in top 200.

noleisthebest

Posts : 25144
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:40 pm

luvsports! wrote:I like to think with all the work ive done on this topic that i am fairly objective and clear sighted on this issue. That kinda goes out the window with Feds. I can't help it, I'm a massive fan. He got me into tennis (personally Winking ). He made me love the sport. If he were on drugs it would be agony for me.
But then I don't see it as much compared to say robredo or ferrer. Toughy. Part of me thinks he is but I don't want it to be true.

I am a bit the same as you..except that sometimes I wish he had doped a bit better. I would not mind him doping and won more matches v Nadal and Djoko, as there is nothing more unfair than having an honest player versus cheats.

But to add to NITB point, Making tennis look easy and "effortless" is why we are all fans of Federer. And this "effortless" grace is by definition the anti-doping definition. If you can make things effortlessly then you don't need to dope. Birds don't dope on petrol. They can fly without it. Federer is the same. Why dope when he can, at times, bagel Nadal, and crush most of his rivals, most of the time, effortlessly?

I will remember the interview of Santoro regarding doping....he seemed to suggest many did but was clear that Federer was not one of them.

Tenez

Posts : 17432
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:14 pm

Tenez wrote: Birds don't dope on petrol. They can fly without it. Federer is the same.  

That is such a lovely way of putting it, T.

noleisthebest

Posts : 25144
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by truffin1 on Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:00 pm

that blog is from years ago and clearly based on the fedtard comments and the blog itself written by a Nadal fanatic trying to deflect.   I'm not even sure where exactly the blog implicates Federer -  most of it has nothing to do with him and the examples given are gross distortions of what really went on during certain incidences. Amri brought it up this same article or aguement a while ago to deflect from Nadals clear doping and we all hashed it out then, and I gave tons or arguent and reasoning based off my experience as to why it's clear to me Federer doesn't dope.

A couple of quick points.

1.it seems the main point of the blog and one of the Nadal nuts main claims is that Federer catching Mono shows he EPO doped.  That's a ludicrous assertion without evidence.

According to ABC news-  95% of the people in the world will get Mono in some form during their life.. Think about that... How many of those people EPO dope?   Just randomly tying someone getting sick from something that basically everyone in the world will get at some point, and saying that means they EPO doped is insane.   It's not even proven EPO raises risk of mono.    It's like knowing that 1 out of a 100 million headaches is caused by a brain tumor.. then you see someone with a headache and go-  "look at that guy- he clearly has a brain tumor" 

 " Most often this disease is caused by the Epstein-Barr virus, which infects white blood cells and causes a sore throat, swollen glands, fever and fatigue in teenagers. Once a person is infected with Epstein-Barr, the virus stays in their white blood cells for life.
Mono is not a rare disease, as 95 percent of people will get it during their lifetimes. By age of 5, about 50 percent of children in the United States have already been infected.
Unfortunately, since Epstein-Barr stays in a person's cells for life, anyone who has been infected in the past can pass the virus to someone else -- even if they have recovered from mono. Because of this, preventing infection is almost impossible."
 

2. Acutally EPO doping is old school technology. Nadal and other dopers have moved far beyond that.  They might do things that create the same effect, but no way is it EPO. I worked with top athletes, and as far back as 20 years ago it was already known that better methods were in play. Also- EPO testing has become almost fool proof.   No athlete with the money and means of a Federer or Nadal, or any top player is going to actually EPO dope in the past few years.  they have far better methods.


The blog even tries to tie Federer into Fuentes and the Spanish doctors! lol...  saying Fuentes mentioned he worked with tennis players-- yeah--   Nadal,Ferrer,etc...  we all know who Fuentes worked with. 


Bottom line is-- I have no doubt that every top athlete with the means will take what's allowed to the very edge.. Why wouldn't they?  If a certain level of chemical in the blood is allowed to be 99.9 then I guarantee that Federer, Djoko, Nadal, Stan have those levels raised with whatever methods they can to 99.9.  It's a no brainer. 


It's the guys who then take it to 105 and hide it that are the cheaters.. Nadal being the poster child for that.

truffin1

Posts : 861
Join date : 2012-10-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by luvsports! on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:29 pm

Great posts guys.
That is a stunning stat Truffin re Mono, insane %!
Just a couple of things Truffin I want to get your and actually everyone's opinion on.

Rome '06. He went with Nadal every step of the way in a 5 hour marathon. Could he have done that had he not been on something?

luvsports!

Posts : 4090
Join date : 2012-09-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by truffin1 on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:56 pm

luvsports! wrote:Great posts guys.
That is a stunning stat Truffin re Mono, insane %!
Just a couple of things Truffin I want to get your and actually everyone's opinion on.

Rome '06. He went with Nadal every step of the way in a 5 hour marathon. Could he have done that had he not been on something?


Sure he could in a one off match, or here and there.. he was a 25 year old in physical prime genius at that point.

I know we marvel at the stamina of these guys now playing for 5 and 6 hours, but it's not really THAT amazing a feat for a top athlete to pull off.  Look at Ali/Foreman 3 in Manila-   they pounded each other into near death for 15 rounds in steaming 120 degrees under the lights heat.  The air literly was boiling.  Neither- certainly Ali was not on dope.   Fed/Nadal in rome was a walk in the park in comparison.

truffin1

Posts : 861
Join date : 2012-10-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:43 pm

truffin1 wrote:
luvsports! wrote:Great posts guys.
That is a stunning stat Truffin re Mono, insane %!
Just a couple of things Truffin I want to get your and actually everyone's opinion on.

Rome '06. He went with Nadal every step of the way in a 5 hour marathon. Could he have done that had he not been on something?


Sure he could in a one off match, or here and there.. he was a 25 year old in physical prime genius at that point.

I know we marvel at the stamina of these guys now playing for 5 and 6 hours, but it's not really THAT amazing a feat for a top athlete to pull off.  Look at Ali/Foreman 3 in Manila-   they pounded each other into near death for 15 rounds in steaming 120 degrees under the lights heat.  The air literly was boiling.  Neither- certainly Ali was not on dope.   Fed/Nadal in rome was a walk in the park in comparison.

I think stamina is actually better at 29 than 25. That's what cycling, and long distance runners record seem to show...But let's not got there again.

The clue here is that 5 setter from Fed are not the same as 5 setter from Nadal. The fact Nadal stands 3 metres further back, runs twice as much needs twice as much power as fed to send the ball back, means Nadal burns twice as much energy than fed over a point....like he does over 5 sets. (and when I say "twice" I think I am very conservative).  It is Nadal who shoudl have crumbled in that 5th set...not Federer. 5 setters have been played many times in the history of teh game without having been suspected of doping but no-one in the history of the game coudl hit a ball as hard and run as much as Nadal for 5 sets.

If you look at just a year earlier, in Miami 05, it was Nadal who lost the last 6 games of that 5th set, completely running out of steam...versus federer. As I mentioned many times, in that Miami 05, Nadal was not taking 35s between points but was, in the first sets taking less than 20s even. But for EPO (or its equivalent) to really work one needs to breath long enough between points so that the additional red cells can capture the necessary oxygen to keep on producing those amazing physical points one after the other.

EPO woudl not have been enough for Nadal to win many of those 5 setters, he needed time between points too to maximise EPO effect. This is the reason why Nadal lost Wimby 2007 (losing the last 5 games in a row again) cause the referee had warned nadal not to take too much time between points. One may argue that Wimby 2008 coudl have been even closer had the rain not stopped the game allowing Nadal to recover some energy in the meantime.

Tenez

Posts : 17432
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by Autumnleaf on Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:10 pm

Interesting topics got started while I was in Italy. Big Grin

@luvsports! The blog you quote there is simply ridiculous, I had found it myself earlier and dismissed it. The connection between Epo and Mononucleosis simply does not exist. There is only one dubious study that links them, but it seems to be referenced quite a lot.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Mononucleosis-and-EPO---Is-There-a-Connection?&id=1063041

Basically it says:

1. Epo causes Pure Red Cell Aplasia
2. Mononucleosis can cause Pure Red Cell Aplasia
3. Ergo Epo causes Mononucleosis.

It can also be a convenient excuse for missing time or explain away weak performances while off cycling drugs, but in that case the guys who claim to be sick with it, are really fine.

That does not however mean, that Fed is clean. And to be frank... I wouldn't care too much. I understand these guys. Imagine you are that great talent, but to really suceed you have to get over any potential moral misgivings. Else you'll see guys with less talent succeed all around you. Where's the justice in that?

I also think, that authorities should go tough on cheats whoever they are. Because that's the only way to maybe reach the point where young talents don't need to make that kind of choice.

Autumnleaf

Posts : 624
Join date : 2014-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Feds doping?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum