Armstrong might lose all his titles!

laverfan wrote:

wow3 wrote:LF you are the best thing to happen to this forum. Another reason that I dont miss V2 because I can read and interact with you here.

I do dislike the fundamental idea of a paranoid world though.

And myopic

It seems dopers are always one step ahead of the testers

Veejay, did you read my comment on ja606 about Nole?

laverfan wrote:
I am not so sure ROTLA/Tenez like it that much. Unless I get banned, I plan to hang out here too.

No, I like you here. Though I do not like some of your comments because I think at times you post in your strange mysterious ways giving useless irrelevant 'facts' and being hypocritical which is disguised as being 'balanced'. But you are not offensive. Its fine to have to here. Difference of opinion is all fine.

This forum doesn't believe in banning people for having an opinion of any sort on any player. Freedom of speech is important and we don't intend to run a discussion forum with an iron fist like it happens on 606v2. I believe we don't plan to ban anyone.

wow3 wrote:

laverfan wrote:

wow3 wrote:LF you are the best thing to happen to this forum. Another reason that I dont miss V2 because I can read and interact with you here.

I do dislike the fundamental idea of a paranoid world though.

And myopic

It seems dopers are always one step ahead of the testers

Veejay, did you read my comment on ja606 about Nole?

No,on which article will I find it?

wow3 wrote:http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/144980

What username?
Are you Ava?

TMF. I used to be WOW there as well but I changed the pseudo for Wimby and now I cannot revert back

wow3 wrote:TMF. I used to be WOW there as well but I changed the pseudo for Wimby and now I cannot revert back

I would have never guessed,you sound like completely different people
I am in agreement that endurance can be improved through sheer hard work,I know this from personal experience,even a change of diet can make the world of difference,but no pro athlete in any sport out there today performs on pure adrenaline alone.They all use something,whether its banned or legal to get the most out of their bodies

Veejay wrote:They all use something,whether its banned or legal to get the most out of their bodies

At Juici Patties, a Jamaican fast food chain on the campus of the University of the West Indies, university researcher Rachael Irving is ordering a breakfast of ackee and salt fish with yams, bananas and a cup of mint tea.

"This is what the Jamaicans usually eat before they start running," Irving says.

It's what just about everyone here eats. In Kingston, you hear a lot about yams and green bananas. They're the nutritional argument for Jamaican success in sprint events.

"It's [a] carbohydrate, and runners need carbohydrate[s] because that is what produces the glucose that is metabolized to give you the energy that drives the muscle to perform," Irving says.

Dr. Errol Morrison, an endocrinologist and the president of UTech, says Jamaican kids grow up on a diet that is so helpful, they might as well be taking a daily dose of steroids. And he goes a step further: What good nutrition unlocks in Jamaican athletes, he says, is a gift that is genetically endowed.

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/04/151956595/a-need-for-speed-inside-jamaicas-sprint-factory (Hope the link from an unreliable and untrusted Internet is available in the UK).

I wonder why the Jamaicans do not play Tennis (Dustin Brown is the currently well known player from Jamaica) . The 'genetic' part is controversial and border-line racist, and there are many similar article.

Here is a link as an example (caveat emptor, mouse-clicker emptor) - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167996/Why-progeny-slaves-strike-gold-Olympics.html

Nadal must be having 'green' bananas during his break.

wow3 wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/more-sports/cycling/If-Armstrong-loses-Tour-titles-who-gets-them/articleshow/15633180.cms

This cannot get funnier than this. Even if Armstrong loses all his ttiles even then there is not a single clean contender to claim those titles. One thing can be said with certainity that cycling is the most doped sport alongwith weightlifting and athletics.

Tennis is up there too.

wow3 wrote:

laverfan wrote:Glad to see Armstrong stripped, albeit, without a legal case. He jus threw in the towel.

Tenez wrote:Would love to see slams being cancelled in the eventuality of proof of doping.

If the 'doping' cannot be proven during why should future slams be cancelled. Just ban the players caught.

I think the main reason for him for throwing the towel is that there are 10 players who are willing to testify against him. It is very shameful for the sport that there is not even a single worthy winner or there could be another solution as they should let Armstrong to keep his titles as rest of the field was doping too anyway. So in effect he was still the fastest as others were doping too.

I think the main reason he is throwing the towel is that if the trial goes on, He and the UCI will go down....turning the sport in a bigger mess. By sacrifying himself and cutting the rope, the UCI will hang on to the cliff.

Veejay wrote:

wow3 wrote:What else is in store?

http://sports.ndtv.com/othersports/cycling/item/195490-lance-armstrongs-suit-against-usada-dismissed-could-lose-all-his-titles?pfrom=home-otherstories

It seems that Armstrong is on the verge of losing all his titles. Can this have any implication on the tennis world?

The latest is that he is "giving up" his titles!!

By saying that he "gives up", and hands back his Tour de France titles, he is not admitting that he is a doper but that he has been driven to concede through the persecution of the USADA,he has been at the receiving end of a "witch hunt" In doing so, he becomes a martyr - and avoids being found a cheat.
The USADA should really proceed with the case and present all evidence to prove Lance Armstrong's guilt

Nah, I think USADA has done enough. Find me someone who doesn’t believe Armstrong is guilty given the following
evidence.

http://www.myfoxla.com/story/19368358/usada-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-7-tour-de-france-titles

“The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency stripped Lance Armstrong's seven Tour de France
titles Friday, erasing one of the most incredible achievements in sports after
deciding he had used performance-enhancing drugs to do it.

USADA reacted quickly and treated
Armstrong's decision as an admission of guilt, hanging the label of drug cheat
on an athlete who was a hero to thousands for overcoming life-threatening
testicular cancer and for his foundation's support for cancer research.

USADA maintains that Armstrong has used banned substances as
far back as 1996, including the blood-booster EPO and steroids as well as blood
transfusions — all to boost his performance.

The federal probe was closed in February, but USADA announced in June it had
evidence Armstrong used banned substances and methods — and encouraged their
use by teammates. The agency also said it had blood tests from 2009 and 2010
that were "fully consistent" with blood doping.

Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by
Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped
of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to
a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on
the team.

USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready
to testify against him. Other than suggesting they include Landis and Tyler
Hamilton, both of whom have admitted to doping offenses, the agency has refused
to say who they are or specifically what they would say.”

My immediate question is: Who’s next, in tennis I mean? Getting very suspenseful here.

Could Armstrong’s misfortunes happen to Nadal too?

News update and further consierations: “there is a question of whether the organization has the authority to take such
action." http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/23/sport/lance-armstrong-investigation/index.html

Two separate issues come to mind,

1) Fairness to Armstrong, USADA may or may not have the authority to strip his titles earned outside the USA. The accused has NOT been found guilty by the Court;

2) Fairness to readers, everyone is free to form his/her own personal opinions on whether Armstrong is guilty
or innocent based on recent news reports, independently.

SR wrote:My immediate question is: Who’s next, in tennis I mean? Getting very suspenseful here.

Could Armstrong’s misfortunes happen to Nadal too?

It is interesting to think this way. So let us assume, for the sake of argument, that Nadal is a doper/cheater/everything else he is accused of.

The argument I would make is this..

1. If ATP/ITF/WADA failed in their ability to catch Nadal, who else did they fail to catch?

2. Could Armstrong’s misfortunes happen to Nadal Federer too?

3. Could Armstrong’s misfortunes happen to Nadal Djokovic too?

4. Could Armstrong’s misfortunes happen to Nadal Murray too?

... ad infinitum....

What is the 'poison' you want to swallow, SR?

Also, notice WoW3's link where he says, if Armstrong is stripped, who should be next in line to receive the Yellow Jersey? Should Federer get them? Is he innocent? Djokovic? Murray? Ferrer? Soderling? Is anyone innocent? Should I start a website called THASP v2 and accuse Federer, Nalbandian, Gasquet, Malisse, Hewitt, Safin, et al.

laverfan wrote:

SR wrote:My immediate question is: Who’s next, in tennis I mean? Getting very suspenseful here.

Could Armstrong’s misfortunes happen to Nadal too?

It is interesting to think this way. So let us assume, for the sake of argument, that Nadal is a doper/cheater/everything else he is accused of.

The argument I would make is this..

1. If ATP/ITF/WADA failed in their ability to catch Nadal, who else did they fail to catch?

2. Could Armstrong’s misfortunes happen to Nadal Federer too?

3. Could Armstrong’s misfortunes happen to Nadal Djokovic too?

4. Could Armstrong’s misfortunes happen to Nadal Murray too?

... ad infinitum....

What is the 'poison' you want to swallow, SR?

Also, notice WoW3's link where he says, if Armstrong is stripped, who should be next in line to receive the Yellow Jersey? Should Federer get them? Is he innocent? Djokovic? Murray? Ferrer? Soderling? Is anyone innocent? Should I start a website called THASP v2 and accuse Federer, Nalbandian, Gasquet, Malisse, Hewitt, Safin, et al.

Why such excitement? Poison and all? This
is not the first time you’re defending Nadal. No, I disagree. I’m rather having
fun (re)discovering that the responsible authority had succeeded in catching Nadal.
Why do you think a 26 year old champ in his prime so healthy and “unplayable”
in Paris but then was/is shortly and suddenly out
of action from the Olympics to NY? Failed drug tests might not have been
disclosed, but I believe they’ve enforced a silent ban.

Just think, Nadal was already caught and found
guilty of breaking the rule of the game and officially fined £2,000 in W’10 for
receiving on-court coaching. With all his notorious history of gamesmanship, it
is no surprise at all that he is now caught like a big fat rat. In this case, your
points 2-4 are moot. But for argument sake I’ll comment on them.

2. No, Federer has no history of
doping allegations to my knowledge.

3. Perhaps, people are increasingly
questioning the disparity of Djoko’s form between last year and this year due
to banned substances he might have used last year.

4. Unlikely but you never know, you may laugh but I’m
hearing rumours starting ever so slightly associating Murray
with PEDs too.

Back to my original question, who’s
next? The answer is very simple. The one burdened with the proven history of
cheating his way to win; the one who constantly invites negative speculation
because of the negativity of his own conduct on and off court, the one who’s ALREADY
been found guilty of breaking the rule in broad daylight

Good try, LF, but none of the players you named would likely end up like Armstrong because none of
them owns a personal history of cheating, to date. Only one player I can think
of fits the bill. And the name of that player is Raphael Nadal. Everyone knows
that, so no need to beat around the bush. But you get A+ from me for excellent efforts.

SR wrote:This is not the first time you’re defending Nadal.

I am not defending Nadal, I am defending the sport. If Nadal has been getting away with such doping since 2005, why not Federer, since 2000? Why is Federer, or anyone else a saint?

SR wrote:I’m rather having fun (re)discovering that the responsible authority had succeeded in catching Nadal.
Why do you think a 26 year old champ in his prime so healthy and “unplayable” in Paris but then was/is shortly and suddenly out
of action from the Olympics to NY? Failed drug tests might not have been disclosed, but I believe they’ve enforced a silent ban.

SR wrote:Just think, Nadal was already caught and found guilty of breaking the rule of the game and officially fined £2,000 in W’10 for
receiving on-court coaching. With all his notorious history of gamesmanship, it is no surprise at all that he is now caught like a big fat rat. In this case, your
points 2-4 are moot. But for argument sake I’ll comment on them.

So was Federer fined at USO 2009. I will let you find it for yourself.

SR wrote:2. No, Federer has no history of doping allegations to my knowledge.

Neither do I, but I do not consider paranoia enough to be suspicious.

SR wrote:3. Perhaps, people are increasingly questioning the disparity of Djoko’s form between last year and this year due to banned substances he might have used last year.

This is the problem. You are now smearing the entire Sport, just like my argument. 2 of Top 4 doping? Sounds like Cycling or Baseball.

SR wrote:4. Unlikely but you never know, you may laugh but I’m hearing rumours starting ever so slightly associating Murray with PEDs too.

See my argument is already in play here.

SR wrote:Back to my original question, who’s next? The answer is very simple. The one burdened with the proven history of cheating his way to win; the one who constantly invites negative speculation because of the negativity of his own conduct on and off court, the one who’s ALREADY been found guilty of breaking the rule in broad daylight

Del Potro, Djokovic also exceed time limits.

SR wrote:Good try, LF, but none of the players you named would likely end up like Armstrong because none of them owns a personal history of cheating, to date. Only one player I can think of fits the bill. And the name of that player is Raphael Nadal. Everyone knows that, so no need to beat around the bush. But you get A+ from me for excellent efforts.

Is such 'history' in public domain? Are you privy to some internal WADA documents? BTW, thanks for the A+.

LF, you haven't replied to my post on the 'innocent or guilty' thread.

laverfan wrote:Should I start a website called THASP v2 and accuse Federer, Nalbandian, Gasquet, Malisse, Hewitt, Safin, et al.

LF, why you keep threatening everyone saying you can accuse Federer and others too. . For the gazillionth time I'm saying it. DO IT, l dare you. DO IT. Lets see what you have got to say.

Is this an attack on you? NO. In fact you are trying to intimidate everyone.

Nalby is on belly-enhancing drugs

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:DO IT, l dare you.

Ooooooh, he dared you Go on lavefan, or are you a scaredy

SR wrote:

Find me someone who doesn’t believe Armstrong is guilty given the following
evidence.

Oh SR, you wanted someone? Read this and the comments posted : http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrongs-foundation-sees-30-percent-rise-donations-213252956--spt.html


Read the comments posted here: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/cycling/story/2012/08/24/sp-usada-cycling-lance-armstrong.html?cmp=rss

LF: "So was Federer fined at USO 2009. I will let you find it for yourself."

Please, you can do better than that. Fed was fined for swearing. That has nothing to do with a player trying to gain unfair advantage for himself/herself by disrupting his/her opponent. You honest don't see the difference? Take back that A+, you get an F in this.

LF: "This is the problem. You are now smearing the entire Sport, just like my argument. 2 of Top 4 doping? Sounds like Cycling or Baseball. "
"See my argument is already in play here. "

Excuse me, having an opinion that potentially exposes an ugly truth is "smearing"? What's the purpose of this forum? Besides, the truth has its own way of manifesting itself, ultimately, just like the Armstrong case. The truth of the sports in larger than you or me. Why get so anxious protecting something you can't control, like nadal's alleged silent ban?

LF: "Del Potro, Djokovic also exceed time limits. "

Again, you can do far better than this. I'm beginning to doubt your credibility. Yes, time violations, but have they ever been fined for on-court coaching and accused of other more serious gamesmanship like tactical mto? Could you be a little more relevant?

"Is such 'history' in public domain?

Yes, of course, where have you been? W10 tactical mto + on-court coaching, A0 11 on-court coaching, IW'12 running to the loo when roger was just about to serve at match point; washing his hands vs Nishikori in Miami'12, just to list a few. What do you call those string of tactical instances if not established history of gamesmanship? If a player can try to cheat like this in broad daylight, you want to tell us he's beyond cheating when no one is looking?

Finally, you don't happen to be a closet nadal fan, do you?

[/quote]

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

laverfan wrote:Should I start a website called THASP v2 and accuse Federer, Nalbandian, Gasquet, Malisse, Hewitt, Safin, et al.

LF, why you keep threatening everyone saying you can accuse Federer and others too. . For the gazillionth time I'm saying it. DO IT, l dare you. DO IT. Lets see what you have got to say.

This is not a play ground for 5 year olds daring each other to jump from a higher point, is it?

I have very clearly stated that I am defending the sport. All posters who single out a specific player, refuse to understand that accusing just one player, and not others, exposes the underlying system to a much wider scrutiny, be it draw rigging or catching the dopers.

I have very clearly stated that ITF/WADA are not doing enough. Serena's 'panic room' episode is a prime example, or Nadal's, where he knows when WADA testers are going to show up. Tennis is not doing enough, like UCI's biological passport initiative. Individual countries need to have uniformity of laws on this subject. I would even consider banning individual country federations, if any player from that specific country is caught doping.

Do I want the system scrutinised? Yes
Do I want it overhauled? Gradually.
Do I think the sport is clean? In general yes. ITF announces specific cases and results publicly which is good.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Is this an attack on you? NO. In fact you are trying to intimidate everyone.

Because you are willing to be intimidated since you are not using logic to extend and look at the bigger picture. I have no interest in THASPv2 or v1.

I keep thinking of Pink Floyd's Should I trust the government?...

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

laverfan wrote:Should I start a website called THASP v2 and accuse Federer, Nalbandian, Gasquet, Malisse, Hewitt, Safin, et al.

LF, why you keep threatening everyone saying you can accuse Federer and others too. . For the gazillionth time I'm saying it. DO IT, l dare you. DO IT. Lets see what you have got to say.

Is this an attack on you? NO. In fact you are trying to intimidate everyone.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

SR wrote:

Find me someone who doesn’t believe Armstrong is guilty given the following
evidence.

Oh SR, you wanted someone? Read this and the comments posted : http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrongs-foundation-sees-30-percent-rise-donations-213252956--spt.html


Read the comments posted here: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/cycling/story/2012/08/24/sp-usada-cycling-lance-armstrong.html?cmp=rss

mikeyM1000 wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:DO IT, l dare you.

Ooooooh, he dared you Go on lavefan, or are you a scaredy

Why can't this be a playground for 5 year-olds? Anyone?

LF stop wasting your time here.
Trying to explain and teach tennis here is like trying to explain the benefits of world peace to the taliban- you are wasting your time.

mikeyM1000 wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:DO IT, l dare you.

Ooooooh, he dared you Go on lavefan, or are you a scaredy

No I am not.

laverfan wrote:

mikeyM1000 wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:DO IT, l dare you.

Ooooooh, he dared you Go on lavefan, or are you a scaredy

No I am not.

Mardy mardy mustard, can't eat your custard, nah nah nah nah nah!

SR wrote:LF: "So was Federer fined at USO 2009. I will let you find it for yourself."

Please, you can do better than that. Fed was fined for swearing. That has nothing to do with a player trying to gain unfair advantage for himself/herself by disrupting his/her opponent. You honest don't see the difference? Take back that A+, you get an F in this.

In the W10 coaching scenario, Nadal payed the fine and accepted it. Each individual incident is evaluated and should be considered that way. There is USO incident of where do I serve. Do you remember Henin looking at her coach after every point? I would like the Chair Umpires to enforce rules uniformly. for getting an 'F'.

SR wrote:LF: "This is the problem. You are now smearing the entire Sport, just like my argument. 2 of Top 4 doping? Sounds like Cycling or Baseball. "
"See my argument is already in play here. "

Excuse me, having an opinion that potentially exposes an ugly truth is "smearing"? What's the purpose of this forum? Besides, the truth has its own way of manifesting itself, ultimately, just like the Armstrong case. The truth of the sports in larger than you or me. Why get so anxious protecting something you can't control, like nadal's alleged silent ban?

Yet another 'silent ban' conspiracy. Anything to accuse a specific player. . You have every right to your opinion. I have faith in the controlling organizations to do the correct things for the sport of Tennis. I assume you understand alleged part of the 'silent ban'.

SR wrote:LF: "Del Potro, Djokovic also exceed time limits. "

Again, you can do far better than this. I'm beginning to doubt your credibility. Yes, time violations, but have they ever been fined for on-court coaching and accused of other more serious gamesmanship like tactical mto? Could you be a little more relevant?

I do not need anyone's credit. If you doubt my credibility, you have a choice.

SR wrote:"Is such 'history' in public domain?

Yes, of course, where have you been? W10 tactical mto + on-court coaching, A0 11 on-court coaching, IW'12 running to the loo when roger was just about to serve at match point; washing his hands vs Nishikori in Miami'12, just to list a few. What do you call those string of tactical instances if not established history of gamesmanship? If a player can try to cheat like this in broad daylight, you want to tell us he's beyond cheating when no one is looking?

Finally, you don't happen to be a closet nadal fan, do you?

I am aware of the specific incidents that you mention. The Chair Umpire should have enforced any relevant rules in each of these. Being spectators, we can merely have opinions, but have the ability to change the sport. Notice this for example - http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/08/Features/ATP-Announces-Formation-Of-Competition-Committee.aspx

I am a fan of the sport, not a specific player. My screen name is self-explanatory.

mikeyM1000 wrote:
Mardy mardy mustard, can't eat your custard, nah nah nah nah nah!

I understand, Mikey. I dislike the idea of my sport being tainted to the same degree as Cycling, for example. For example SR's post (opinion) is now implying Nadal, Djokovic and Murray (3 of the current Top 4) have been provided artificial enhancements. Do you agree with such an opinion? I do not.

Just because Kerviel (Societe Generale trader) was corrupt (and he has accused his superiors of complicity), does it make all of SG traders corrupt? How many Raj Rajaratnam's does it take to taint the stock market?

I had much rather rely on public domain information, than THASPv1 or v2.

laverfan wrote:
This is not a play ground for 5 year olds daring each other to jump from a higher point, is it?

No this is not. I didn't dare you to jump from a higher point. I dared you to do what you have been threatening all the time. Clearly you just can't do it.

laverfan wrote: I have very clearly stated that I am defending the sport.

Very clearly? When? Give me the quote if you ever have. All the while if anything you have been very clearly telling is that you'll start accusing other players as well.

laverfan wrote: All posters who single out a specific player, refuse to understand that accusing just one player, and not others, exposes the underlying system to a much wider scrutiny, be it draw rigging or catching the dopers.

And all the people who keep threatening to accuse other players too must understand that trying to prove that others are guilty doesn't mean that the one singled out players becomes not guilty.

laverfan wrote: Because you are willing to be intimidated since you are not using logic to extend and look at the bigger picture. I have no interest in THASPv2 or v1.

Logic. Why didn't you use if you any logic to answer every time I question you? What happens then? If you have no interest in THASP v1 or v2, why did you threaten that you'll start it? That's why I dared you, do it if you can. I would still say DO IT, I really want to see what you have to say.

Funny, now you have nothing left other than backtracking your comments.

Reincarnation wrote:LF stop wasting your time here.
Trying to explain and teach tennis here is like trying to explain the benefits of world peace to the taliban- you are wasting your time.

It was all fine if she had tried to explain and teach tennis. But instead she has been threatening to start accusing other players, start a THASP v2. So I said, go ahead, DO IT.

Now she is saying she is not interested. Well.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/more-sports/cycling/Lance-Armstrong-was-tipped-off-before-tests-Report/articleshow/15699702.cms

So this is how many of the dopers might be getting away with it. Some food for thought. But tennis as a sport does not have a history of doping.

In what way doping can help a tennis player? Endurance or shot making?

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

laverfan wrote:
This is not a play ground for 5 year olds daring each other to jump from a higher point, is it?

No this is not. I didn't dare you to jump from a higher point. I dared you to do what you have been threatening all the time. Clearly you just can't do it.

I do not need another website to start innuendo. Here goes.

SR has already accused Murray, Djokovic and Nadal. Let me accuse Federer. Why is Federer never injured?

Here is some more material - http://federerisdoping.blogspot.com/ . How is it possible that Federer in 2008 was able to recover from Mono, but Soderling is out for an year. Must be doping.

He is the president of ATP Players Council, is privy to ATP/WADA cooperation, and has not been tested.

Robin Haase says that it is very suspicious, that I get tested more often than Federer. Please see

https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t19-the-doping-program-joke-of-the-itf#876

Should I start a new thread on this forum to make it more legitimate?

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

laverfan wrote: I have very clearly stated that I am defending the sport.

Very clearly? When? Give me the quote if you ever have. All the while if anything you have been very clearly telling is that you'll start accusing other players as well.

What part of this do I need to explain again or is incomprehensible?

https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t72p30-armstrong-might-lose-all-his-titles#3029

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

laverfan wrote: All posters who single out a specific player, refuse to understand that accusing just one player, and not others, exposes the underlying system to a much wider scrutiny, be it draw rigging or catching the dopers.

And all the people who keep threatening to accuse other players too must understand that trying to prove that others are guilty doesn't mean that the one singled out players becomes not guilty.

Where is your proof, ROTLA? Do I need to rely on a French skit, a French Tennis forum or Yannick Noah? Find me the proof, in public domain. Get the Spaniards to provide Operacion Puerta athlete list in public domain and then we can discuss. Can you get L'Equipe and Dimanche to stand by their reporting integrity and put back what they had up in 2006? Why not ask all French newspapers to sue RFET/Spanish Govt to release lists (like Samaranch says). Till that occurs, this is pure speculation and always will be.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

laverfan wrote: Because you are willing to be intimidated since you are not using logic to extend and look at the bigger picture. I have no interest in THASPv2 or v1.

Logic. Why didn't you use if you any logic to answer every time I question you? What happens then? If you have no interest in THASP v1 or v2, why did you threaten that you'll start it? That's why I dared you, do it if you can. I would still say DO IT, I really want to see what you have to say.

Funny, now you have nothing left other than backtracking your comments.

I just started accusing Federer. You should be thrilled.

Did you know that Federer and Nadal both were tested on 02 Feb 2009 for Urine and Blood (but not EPO)?

http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_47414_original.PDF

If both were on EPO, I guess ITF did not want it's top stars to be 'caught'. (Should satisfy ROTLA).

On a different note, Odesnik, was arrested the same year 2010, when Federer won a slam AO 2010, after he had not won a slam since W 2009. After he won AO 2010, it took him till W 2012 (that too after a lackluster performance at RG 2012) to win a slam. Must be doping. The micro-dosing cycles make no sense though.

Happy now, ROTLA.

wow3 wrote:In what way doping can help a tennis player? Endurance or shot making?

Both.

Neil Armstrong dies age 81...not a good time to be an Armstrong...

Veejay wrote:Neil Armstrong dies age 81...not a good time to be an Armstrong...

Veejay wrote:Neil Armstrong dies age 81...not a good time to be an Armstrong...

What would you rather have, 7 TDF trophies with Floyd Landis as a team mate (of which you get eventually stripped) or a trip to the moon with Buzz Aldrin?

laverfan wrote:

Veejay wrote:Neil Armstrong dies age 81...not a good time to be an Armstrong...

What would you rather have, 7 TDF trophies with Floyd Landis as a team mate (of which you get eventually stripped) or a trip to the moon with Buzz Aldrin?

Well the TDF titles are being stripped and the trip with Buzz Aldrin was apparently only to London's Pinewood studios...
Doesnt leave me with much of a choice eh?

Veejay wrote:Well the TDF titles are being stripped and the trip with Buzz Aldrin was apparently only to London's Pinewood studios...
Does leave me with much of a choice eh?

We need a 'conspiracy' theory for the 'Moon Landing'. There are many more conspiracy theories. This one is getting old.

laverfan wrote: I just started accusing Federer. You should be thrilled.

Brilliant!! Good to see you have the courage to do what you have been threatening. Now just keep up that courage to continue this conversation.

laverfan wrote:

Here is some more material - http://federerisdoping.blogspot.com/ .

1.
I read a bit of it. A site that uses terms like "Fedtard" and who keep posting photoshoped images like https://2img.net/h/i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y351/ashitaka2010/Tragdie.jpg . And you want to discuss what they are talking. . Read the kind of comments posted on that. The blog writer himself posts those under anonymous

Okay since you are in serious discussion about Federer's doping. Put all the questions that have been on this site and also your own. Those all will be answered. Some were already in a "deleted" post on 606v2.

2. Calling both sides of the coin huh? Nice try. .You don't get to post any internet link to support your point LF. You have very clearly said you don't trust them. Fine. So why use them. Don't do that, stick to your point now. Get your other 'verified' sources to support you, but NO internet links.

laverfan wrote: Should I start a new thread on this forum to make it more legitimate?

Absolutely!! Do it please!!! It will be fun.



You talk about looking at the bigger picture. Fine. Do it. But do it without pointing out any names. You can post all your view about ITF/ATP testing, are they doing enough or not, tennis being clean or not or anything. Just don't mention any names. I want to see how you do that. You have accused others of pointing at some specific players which of course is narrow view of things. I agree. Since you must be better, do it, enlighten us all with your bigger picture without pointing out at any player at all.

[quote="laverfan"] I have very clearly stated that I am defending the sport.

Spare us the fallacy.

YOu know that in the internet you can state anything you like. Whether you've enough credibility for readers to believe your statement is another story. No, to get quickly to my point, I believe you're a nadal fan in disguise defending nadal. If you're truly defending the sport, you'd have condemned a player allegedly charged with a silent ban and threatening to stain the sports of tennis for the first time in history, no?

My 2 years in BR has taught me how to spot a nadal fan. I must insist that just from a couple of our exchanges yesterday is enough to convince me that you're a very anxious nadal fan, LF. You don't pass the smell test. But good to have you here. A forum is not complete without controversies and where is the fun if we all agree?

LF is a Laver fan and she also supports Federer. She is defending Nadal but I don't think that she is a Nadal fan.

What's wrong in being a Nadal fan?

wow3 wrote:LF is a Laver fan and she also supports Federer. She is defending Nadal but I don't think that she is a Nadal fan.

Finally someone with a bit of common sense

laverfan wrote:

Veejay wrote:Well the TDF titles are being stripped and the trip with Buzz Aldrin was apparently only to London's Pinewood studios...
Does leave me with much of a choice eh?

We need a 'conspiracy' theory for the 'Moon Landing'. There are many more conspiracy theories. This one is getting old.

Theres enough conspiracy in the documentary " the dark side of the moon"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vrLdstG4ck&feature=related

Amritia3ee wrote:

wow3 wrote:LF is a Laver fan and she also supports Federer. She is defending Nadal but I don't think that she is a Nadal fan.

Finally someone with a bit of common sense

Hello Amritia...Welcome to our forum
Did you miss me?

Veejay, my reasons to not to believe moon travel is:

It is too far to travel and also astronauts have struggled to go to space and going to moon and coming back must have been ultra difficult rather impossible.

How did so many people lied and no-one ever blew the whistle?

Veejay wrote:

Amritia3ee wrote:

wow3 wrote:LF is a Laver fan and she also supports Federer. She is defending Nadal but I don't think that she is a Nadal fan.

Finally someone with a bit of common sense

Hello Amritia...Welcome to our forum
Did you miss me?

Veejay, u have got some style

My new edition of TWS is out http://www.606v2.com/t34099-tennis-weekly-series-edition-7.