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Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Autumnleaf on Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:48 pm

Looks like a routine victory for Djoko at the moment, don't think he'll let slip a set again like vs. Cilic.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:54 pm

Nole's returning is really excellent these days, that is by far his biggest weapon.

Completely took the wind out of Tsonga's sails with it.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:56 pm

Tenez wrote:Is it me or the conds look slower and slower?

They are. That was part of Fed's problem today, I think. He is normally able to play fast, but couldn't take off at all against Gulbis, it was all a hard-hitting slog.
Even his serve looked a bit toothless, from what I saw.
The only court that played quite fast was Lenglen in the sun.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Autumnleaf on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:08 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I hope Nole is doing well, haven't seen any of the match. Did all the points calcs just to chase the blues away, but it didn't work....
Haha, I am way too emotionally involved there  Blush ; got sad too, even though I like Gulbis, good to see I am not the only one. 

Gotta watch what I write when emotionally driven too. When the heart wins over the mind, it isn't pretty to look at later.

I'll mostly root against guys now, i.e. first and foremost against Nadal. Hope, there'll be cause for joy at the end of next week.  Good Luck

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:11 pm

Order of play out for tomorrow:


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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:13 pm

Much easier than expected for Nole, returning was the key.
Will be even more so in his next match.


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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Autumnleaf on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:21 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Much easier than expected for Nole, returning was the key.
Will be even more so in his next match.
Isn't it always for Djoko?  Laugh Don't worry for Djoko vs. Raonic. Sure, he took a set off him in Rome, but he was in trouble vs. Simon in RG and he'll never take 3 sets off Djoko.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Autumnleaf on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:26 pm

Gulbis in on court interview: It’s the biggest win of my career. Sorry I had to win. I know how everyone likes Roger. It was a tough match but this is sport. I’ve been playing very well in France. I won tournaments in Marseille and Nice, hopefully Paris is the next one.


Gotta love that guy. Sorry, he had to win? Knows how to catch a disappointed crowds' hearts.  Love Blush 


Paris the next one? He is so confident now. Good luck Ernest, that's a tall order.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:29 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:
gallery play wrote:
Autumnleaf wrote:
gallery play wrote:However, this match was not about Federer losing, but about Gulbis winning. He's in the best form of his life. I hope he can keep it up.

Imho, it's about both - and why not? Gulbis won and Fed lost. I hope for Gulbis he makes SF now and for Fed, he doesn't continue the losing ways.
Sure but during his peak years you could talk for hours about why he lost, but that's not the case now. Apart from that second set SP's there are not many clues of how he could have won this. It simply is a fair and square win for Gulbis. And Gulbis isn't even the typical nightmare opponant for Fed, but he sure had more firepower today.
GP, you say this as if there was no way that Fed could have possibly won that match. There are the SPs and he should have won one of them too. I honestly don't see anything wrong with discussing such things because imho it doesn't take away anything from the winner. He won because he played better is the same as saying he won because the other guy played worse. And if the win was so fair and square, why did Gulbis need 5 sets in the first place?

Saying there is nothing to discuss, maybe you are of the opinion that this is the best that Fed is capable of? He did commit 59 (!) UFE, that's atrocious, really. If you think that's the best he can do, he maybe should retire asap?
Is there any proof he can do better than this at this stage of his career? Losing to in-form players after a few rounds at a slam is not an incident. It has become a trend.
If he only plays to win Slams, than yes, he'd better retire. But i don't think that's the reason he still plays. He plays because he loves the game, so he can go on as long as he wants (I'm sure though,  he'll love the game a lot less as soon as he continuously won't be able to get past the semis in smaller tournaments).

Imo next month is the very last chance he'll be a serious contender for a slam title.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:31 pm

Fed not impressed with either Tursunov's nor Gulbis's MTOs:


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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:37 pm

I look forward to watching Lajovic tomorrow. I hope the crowd gets behind him from the start and relaxes him he's got a nice game, and yes, a SBH  Cool

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Autumnleaf on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:45 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Fed not impressed with either Tursunov's nor Gulbis's MTOs:
Well, he was on the receiving end of gamesmanship quite often. Sad  As always, Nadal was the shining example of sportsmanship to the younger generation!  Doh 

Tursunov for sure had something, his movement on return of serve deteriorated substantially. Fed noticed it as well, that's why I don't think he was angry on Tursunov.

Gulbis otoh... I don't know whether Gulbis had anything... but for sure he didn't look any worse after he came back. Dare I say, he looked improved - a lot. And we know these guys do anything today to win a match, legal, illegal and in between.

On another note: it's always so sad to watch these press conferences after losses. These guys look so disappointed and sometimes even close to tears. Don't understand why they are criticized so often for not lauding the opponent enough and stuff like that, when it's so clear, that they take the loss to heart and it's painful to talk about it so short after. I am sure, after a few hours they gain perspective, but in the moment, you feel the pain.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Autumnleaf on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:53 pm

gallery play wrote:
Autumnleaf wrote:
gallery play wrote:
Autumnleaf wrote:
gallery play wrote:However, this match was not about Federer losing, but about Gulbis winning. He's in the best form of his life. I hope he can keep it up.

Imho, it's about both - and why not? Gulbis won and Fed lost. I hope for Gulbis he makes SF now and for Fed, he doesn't continue the losing ways.
Sure but during his peak years you could talk for hours about why he lost, but that's not the case now. Apart from that second set SP's there are not many clues of how he could have won this. It simply is a fair and square win for Gulbis. And Gulbis isn't even the typical nightmare opponant for Fed, but he sure had more firepower today.
Saying there is nothing to discuss, maybe you are of the opinion that this is the best that Fed is capable of? He did commit 59 (!) UFE, that's atrocious, really. If you think that's the best he can do, he maybe should retire asap?
Is there any proof he can do better than this at this stage of his career? Losing to in-form players after a few rounds at a slam is not an incident. It has become a trend.
If he only plays to win Slams, than yes, he'd better retire. But i don't think that's the reason he still plays. He plays because he loves the game, so he can go on as long as he wants (I'm sure though,  he'll love the game a lot less as soon as he continuously won't be able to get past the semis in smaller tournaments).

Imo next month is the very last chance he'll be a serious contender for a slam title.
No proof, no and a worrying trend, yes. Totally agree. I have more (maybe misplaced) hope than confidence, admitted. 

I also think, Wimbledon might be the last chance to ever win anything big again. We discussed that "love of the game" stuff on the other thread and I agree that losing to all kind of guys won't be any fun. Tenez rightfully added that Fed might not want to push his body according to today's needs. I think he might want to push himself (within his own limits), but only if there is a reward for the pain. Therein is the balance.

Without a payoff, this balance is lost and we might see a retirement sooner than expected. Which would be an immense loss for the game.  Sad

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Autumnleaf on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:56 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I look forward to watching Lajovic tomorrow. I hope the crowd gets behind him from the start and relaxes him he's got a nice game, and yes, a SBH  Cool
I'd look forward to watching him, if it wasn't for his opponent. I expect another beatdown, sadly. I hope I am wrong. The crowd will be behind him of course, as they were behind every opponent of the "ogre" (great nickname by the French there  Laugh )

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:15 pm

[quote="summerblues"]
gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:
summerblues wrote:...had he only served the set out at 5:3 in the second.
That;s why I m not sure Gulbis deserves it as much as you say he does. Another slip up from Federer! 2 SPs wasted....including on a rather easy smash!
 I think the split of the first two sets was - all-in-all - a pretty fair outcome..
But it's one think missing an easy FH....especially the way Gulbis plays and messing up an easy smash and 2SPs. That seriously affected Federer's composure afterwards.

Having said that the main reason Fed lost was that again he could not hurt Gulbis with his BH. Like he played the whole match with fear....quite unlike him. I would have fancied Fed to win in 3 had he converted those 2 BPs.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:21 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:
Without a payoff, this balance is lost and we might see a retirement sooner than expected. Which would be an immense loss for the game.  Sad
to put it mildly!
I think i would silence me for at least a week, at home, at work, wherever... Cry

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:31 pm

gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:Told ya..naah that's mean. Although i expected this to happen, it still hurts.
But i see the positives: Roger can extra prepare for his lost (reasonable) shot for a GS succes. And i rather see him lose to Gulbis than to Berdych.
I certainly did not expect him to lose that 2nd set with 2 SPs in hand! He really lost the momentum there. Very bizarre...

So in a way, your prediction was better?  Winking
 
I'd say in a way yes!  Cool 

When a point makes the whole difference, predictions are pretty irrelevant. It's no different to Federer losing to Safin after having MPs in that AO05, or Djoko throwing his 2013 FO to Nadal by touching the net, Federer wasting his USO 09 final v Delpo.

How can one predict those? What we can remember is that Federer was on his way to a 2 sets lead and wasted his chances in a ridiculous way...especially as he was serving very well in that second set.


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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:33 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:Gulbis in on court interview: It’s the biggest win of my career. Sorry I had to win. I know how everyone likes Roger. It was a tough match but this is sport. I’ve been playing very well in France. I won tournaments in Marseille and Nice, hopefully Paris is the next one.


Gotta love that guy. Sorry, he had to win? Knows how to catch a disappointed crowds' hearts.  Love Blush 


Paris the next one? He is so confident now. Good luck Ernest, that's a tall order.
Certainly the player I like most to win it from now on.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:41 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:Told ya..naah that's mean. Although i expected this to happen, it still hurts.
But i see the positives: Roger can extra prepare for his lost (reasonable) shot for a GS succes. And i rather see him lose to Gulbis than to Berdych.
I certainly did not expect him to lose that 2nd set with 2 SPs in hand! He really lost the momentum there. Very bizarre...

So in a way, your prediction was better?  Winking
 
I'd say in a way yes!  Cool 

When a point makes the whole difference, predictions are pretty irrelevant. It's no different to Federer losing to Safin after having MPs in that AO05, or Djoko throwing his 2013 FO to Nadal by touching the net, Federer wasting his USO 09 final v Delpo.

How can one predict those? What we can remember is that Federer was on his way to a 2 sets lead and wasted his chances in a ridiculous way...especially as he was serving very well in that second set.

But then again: Gulbis should have won the first set. He was in command, until his missed that FH at 5-3.
Sure, there will always be missed chances (i didn't predict he wouldn't get any) but all things considered: this wasn't as big of a surprise.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:49 pm

I think this was a big surprise.
I really didn't expect Gulbis to win. His game is very 1 D compared to Fed's.
It's only beause Fed for some reason (I haven't seen the first set and most of the second set) played considerably below what he normally does against Gulbis he was able to win.
If he gets past Berd, Nole is going to eat him up for breakfast.
Fed gifted this match to Gulbis.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:49 pm

gallery play wrote:But then again: Gulbis should have won the first set. He was in command, until his missed that FH at 5-3.
Sure, there will always be missed chances (i didn't predict he wouldn't get any) but all things considered: this wasn't as big of a surprise.
That I agree.

Did not see the first set...just the TB.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:57 pm

“Mentally I have already switched to the grass, to be quite honest,” said Federer. “For me, it's like, ‘the clay-court season was fun, but we are moving on.’ Clay doesn't need me anymore, I got flushed out here.

“Clearly first the focus is on Halle, try to defend my title there. It's nice going back to a place where I have to defend something. Hasn't been like this for a while, so that's something I'm looking forward to. I think when I'm healthy, like I have been now for the last six to nine months, I think I can also decide the outcome of the matches more than I could last year. I’m very excited about my chances for Wimbledon now this time.”

Federer, a six-time champion in Halle and seven-time Wimbledon titlist, owns the highest FedEx ATP Win/Loss percentage on grass in the Open Era at .871 and sits atop the all-time titles list on the surface with 13.

For the 32 year old, transitioning to grass is nothing new and he believes it is actually the long clay season that better prepares him for the faster conditions ahead.

“Things are going to change with the grass season,” added Federer. “It's going to be different. I have to shorten the back-swing.

“Usually one plays well on grass because one has to do so much on clay to put pressure on the ball that it's necessary to hit hard. I feel the same for myself. When you move on the quick ground, it's difficult to take the speed from the opponent. On clay it's different, and that's probably the reason I play rather well on grass after the clay season.”

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:05 pm

Here in French...quite Bizarre!

Avec le temps, c’est plus dur d’oublier une défaite comme celle-ci?

Des fois, tu est plus déçu que d’autres. Là, je ne dirais pas je ne suis pas fâché, plutôt contrarié. J’ai raté des occasions, je perds en cinq sets, et je me retrouve devant vous à devoir vous expliquer pourquoi j’ai perdu…Je me réjouis de pouvoir m’en aller d’ici et de faire autre chose.

Vous pensez pourvoir aller plus loin que ça à Wimbledon?

Pour tout vous dire, j’ai déjà basculé sur le gazon dans ma tête. On essaie de rester professionnel, mais je ne suis pas mécontent que cette période compliquée, avec la naissance de mes enfants, se termine. Je suis en forme physiquement, et quand c’est le cas, je pense que j’ai ma chance à Wimbledon.
==========================
Google translated?

Over time, it is harder to forget a loss like this?

Sometimes, you're more disappointed than others. , I would not say I'm not angry, rather upset. I missed opportunities, I lose in five sets, and I find myself in front of you having to explain why I lost ... I am glad to get away from here and do something else.

You think fill go further than that at Wimbledon?

To be honest, I've switched on the grass in my head. We try to stay professional, but I am not unhappy that this complicated period with the birth of my children, ends. I am physically fit, and when this is the case, I think I have my chance at Wimbledon.
==============================
Clearly he did not fancy slugging it out with Djoko and Rafa!

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by summerblues on Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:46 am

Tenez wrote:Clearly he did not fancy slugging it out with Djoko and Rafa!
...or he is trying to put a positive spin on things.

Nevertheless, the fan in me is also trying to come up with some hopeful and optimistic explanation.  It may of course be pure wishful thinking on my part, but I have been going through thoughts along these lines:

- With the birth of his kids, his preparation on clay was far from perfect
- Even at the best of times, playing Nole and Rafa back-to-back on clay would have been a daunting task - and a tiring one just a few weeks before the grass court season
- He has been playing very well January to Monte Carlo but today, his game lacked the sting it had for the most part of the early spring (both you and I agreed that he looked "lethargic" - and we agreed on it early in the second set, when things were still looking good scorewise)

So maybe, just maybe, he had made a conscious decision to not overspend energy here and only go as far as he comfortably could.

...or maybe this is the end. Sad

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:53 am

Fed says some interesting things in both interviews, and subconsciously reveals quite a bit.
It is clear that he is very disappointed with the loss and that he didn't expect it.
There is a strong emotion of bitter regret and a few other things between the lines.
I think he is acutely feeling the element of time slipping through his fingers and that seems to unsettle him and come through his game.
I truly hope he's got a grain of poetry in his bones and will be able to lift himself out of this rut on grass.
He is quite raw at the moment and almost upset with clay for not tuning in with his inner ways.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:26 am

Also, I think people quickly forget how good Federer is even on sligtly faster conditions.
After all, he beat Nole TWICE this year on hard courts.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:30 am

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:Clearly he did not fancy slugging it out with Djoko and Rafa!
...or he is trying to put a positive spin on things.

Nevertheless, the fan in me is also trying to come up with some hopeful and optimistic explanation.  It may of course be pure wishful thinking on my part, but I have been going through thoughts along these lines:

- With the birth of his kids, his preparation on clay was far from perfect
- Even at the best of times, playing Nole and Rafa back-to-back on clay would have been a daunting task - and a tiring one just a few weeks before the grass court season
- He has been playing very well January to Monte Carlo but today, his game lacked the sting it had for the most part of the early spring (both you and I agreed that he looked "lethargic" - and we agreed on it early in the second set, when things were still looking good scorewise)

So maybe, just maybe, he had made a conscious decision to not overspend energy here and only go as far as he comfortably could.

...or maybe this is the end. Sad

Yes but I am always worried when a player concentrates too much on one tournament. I remember Lendl skipping the FO to concentrate on Wimby...never worked for him.

However, Fed must feel that nadal will be beatable this year at SW19 and Djoko woudl be easier if he arrives in good shape.

Still disspointed he did not reach teh semi here.....it was really in his strings.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:31 am

noleisthebest wrote:Also, I think people quickly forget how good Federer is even on sligtly faster conditions.
After all, he beat Nole TWICE this year on hard courts.

Yes but he needs to bring more energy into it.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Autumnleaf on Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:54 am

noleisthebest wrote:(...)
I think he is acutely feeling the element of time slipping through his fingers and that seems to unsettle him and come through his game.
I truly hope he's got a grain of poetry in his bones and will be able to lift himself out of this rut on grass.
He is quite raw at the moment and almost upset with clay for not tuning in with his inner ways.
I agree and that's why I don't buy the "for the love of the game". I don't think he was necessarily lying - it's just not the whole truth. This strong feeling of time slipping away adds to the pressure and that's why he is unable to relax unless he has a comfortable lead, imho. I don't think not wanting it enough is a problem, I think it's the opposite: wanting it too much. 

I wonder what he thinks wrt Nadal edging closer to the record, if that's the reason why he is so dead-set on wanting to win another GS. I can feel with not wanting to leave any record of meaning to Nadal. Else he could just let go and be easier on himself thinking "I have done well and from now on everything else is just a bonus". But that's not the kind of feeling I get there.

I'm a bit afraid of what that kind of pressure could mean for the grass season where in theory he has a chance.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:05 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Also, I think people quickly forget how good Federer is even on sligtly faster conditions.
After all, he beat Nole TWICE this year on hard courts.

Yes but he needs to bring more energy into it.

Fed wasn't intending to be physical in yesterday's match.
Slow and heavy conditions suited Gulbis's hard hitting much better than Fed's game who was not able to impose any speed and take away time from him.
As it went on and the balance was still not shifting, he started hitting the ball harder, I don't think I ever heard him make that exerting noise before.
To me, it was very sad, as it felt like he had to cross his invisible line of his harmony you mentioned the other day.

The way his game is maturing and getting finer, it's moving away in the opposite direction from the slog modern clay tennis has become.
Players are whacking the ball hard, some even taking it early, and it is just beginning to present a physical challenge even against the non-grinders.
That's where the game has evolved to, and without the strong BH, it's hard to withstand and take on that challenge on clay. That knowledge may dusturb him a little and cause self-doubt, but his talent and game are still bigger and able to conquer, so long as he still wants to show the youngsters who the Daddy is and wag his index finger again.
For me, if he can turn off the pressure button in his brain and play his tennis, he'll be fine.
I really think there is absolutely no reason for him not to win Wimbledon this year, tennis wise.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Autumnleaf on Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:15 am

Tenez wrote:(...)
However, Fed must feel that nadal will be beatable this year at SW19 and Djoko woudl be easier if he arrives in good shape. (...)
Nadal is the biggest danger obviously and he was quite beatable at Wimbledon in 2012 and 2013, losing to Rosol and Darcis respecively.  Thumbs Up So I think, it's fair game to hope for an early exit again. He surely wouldn't be missed, save by the (vocal) minority of his crazy fans.  

But if Nadal somehow manages to get through the first week unscarred, he will be dangerous again. Doh Still - Fed has been shown to be vulnerable to the big hitters at Wimbledon too - he lost to Berdych and Tsonga there after all.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:40 am

Fed has been shown to be vulnerable to the big hitters at Wimbledon too - he lost to Berdych and Tsonga there after all.
Yes though I am not sure how relevant were those matches with Fed being really hampered there (from the beginning v Berdych and after 2 sets v Tsonga).

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 8 Sun 31/05/2014

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