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Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sat May 31, 2014 6:20 pm

summerblues wrote:Much as I like Kohli, I think we will need Andy in the SF.
Same here....I am even prepared to sacrifice Federer to have Djoko in final!

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by summerblues on Sat May 31, 2014 6:27 pm

Tenez wrote:Did not realise you were a closet nadal fan! Winking
Hehe.  Mind you, I will still be rooting for an inconsistent shot maker against Nadal, but other than that I do not have much patience with players who just hit and hope.

In tennis, there are no points for "artistic merit" or for "technique" like in say figure skating or even ski jumping.  If someone knows they could get better results by grinding yet they choose to play more aggressively I rather despise them (well, despise may be too strong a word, but it expresses the direction of my sentiment).

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by summerblues on Sat May 31, 2014 6:34 pm

Tenez wrote:
summerblues wrote:Much as I like Kohli, I think we will need Andy in the SF.
Same here....I am even prepared to sacrifice Federer to have Djoko in final!
I do not think I can go that far.  Certainly, if Roger and Nole were to play on Friday, there is no way I would not be rooting for Roger - even knowing what that would mean.

That is why I really really really need Andy.  In spite of his lack of clay court pedigree, I still think Andy is the only player (other than Nole of course) that has a shot at beating Rafa even if Rafa is playing well.  ....and if he somehow does that, I can root for Roger vs Nole with no worries at the back of my mind smiley

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 6:47 pm

Quite a battle on Lenglen between Murray and Kohl. Pretty good tennis so far.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 6:52 pm

Have to say Andy lost a step since his back surgery. He's not the tough retriever he once was. That's ok, because that forces him to take the initiative and this makes him a more attractive player

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 7:04 pm

I think it's underestimated how much pros enjoy playing tennis.
Yes, just like the rest of us they want to win, but, I'll tell you there is no joy playing against your natural flow.
It may win points but it's horrible in the long run. It's like going to work every day and hating your job intensely.
That's why they yell out a C'mon! when they hit a great shot - it lifts and inspires them hugely.
Suddenly for a moment, you create magic and beat gravity.
All players have a measure of talent, athleticism and ability and play within their means.
Nobody grinds if they are able to win any other way.

You call Paire a headcase...but why? What should he do being tall having a great serve? Grind and rally from the baseline?
It's suicidal.
He has to play attacking tennis and hit through players. He has a really great game. He may have fiery spirit that overwhelms him momentarily and interferes with his focus temporarily, but it's all human, players are not robots, although some appear to be.
And they are usually the ones who have no other options but to be calm and patient, like less talented students who spend three times as many hours to prepare for an exam.

There are no visible points for art on courts, but I'll tell you they count a lot inside players.
Grinders are always scared of talented players and have respect for them, as all they can do is be at their mercy and retrieve.
I love watching quality counter-punchers and grinders as they tend to bring out some great shot-making out of their attacking opponents.

It's only since this artificial physical era spearheaded by Nadal that they are able to have an upper hand. That is sad and dead tennis.
Nadal has met his terminator in Nole. I hope for a great final uninterrupted by any distractions and gamesmanship.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 7:37 pm

Decent match between Murray and Kholi.
Now that Andy's puffed out, he is having to play better.
Langlen's speed is pretty good and going Kholi's way.
I'd love to see the 5th set!

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by summerblues on Sat May 31, 2014 7:41 pm

Scoreboard watching Gasquet-Verdasco; looks like they also have plenty of service breaks there.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 7:43 pm

Kholi breaks and is serves for the 4th set!
COME ON KHOLI!!!!! diva

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 7:49 pm

And he does it, 5th set - here we come! Somersault

I love 5th sets in Roland Garros, players are always flat and have to really think what they are doing, not just bash the ball.
Murray has reverted to his primeval pushing tennis, he seems he can only last 2 sets in his Lendl- legacy turbo semi-attacking FH mode.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 7:52 pm

Order of play out for tomorrow:


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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by summerblues on Sat May 31, 2014 7:55 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Order of play out for tomorrow:

Some interesting matches.  Fed and Nole could both win easy or they could both have a fight on their hands - depending on what versions of their opponents show up.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 7:59 pm

Richie pulling off some heroic BHs trying to break the menacing-grunting Verdasco.
I think Gasquet is crowd's favourite of all  French players, they really love him, great atmosphere!

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 8:04 pm

Kholi can really play on clay, comes back from 0:2 in and is up 3:2 with a break!

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 8:19 pm

Strange to see so many empty seats at Lenglen, this is a very entertaining match.

The fifth started off with 4 breaks of serve and they just served 2 love games each. 5-5 game on

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 8:23 pm

Murray keeps on touching his hamstring..how on earth could he survive 3 hours against Nadal?

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 8:25 pm

This time he does seem to have a problem with the leg, but the serve is pulling him through.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 8:29 pm

Kohl does not blink under pressure 6-6
I really like Kohl but this side of the draw can't have more upsets. Murray has to win.

After this game there will be 2 games left to play...

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 8:31 pm

o boy..

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 8:32 pm

wow, that was a cool way to win the BP

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 8:33 pm

Gutsy Andy!
7-6

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 8:34 pm

So Andy has to break now or he won't have a day off tomorrow

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 8:40 pm

That was a great BH drive volley from Kholi mid his 7th game...he is so fluid and at ease with his game on clay!

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by gallery play on Sat May 31, 2014 8:40 pm

7-7 and the match is postponed.

This does not look good for Andy. He's a slow starter and his hamstring will be sore tomorrow.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 8:44 pm

That's it for the day... play suspended. I had a feeling Kholi would've won this if they had a bit more daylight.
I can't believe they don't have floodlights there.
But the break will at least give Gasquet a lifeline, he really looked cooked against Verdasco.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sat May 31, 2014 8:45 pm

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:Did not realise you were a closet nadal fan! Winking
Hehe.  Mind you, I will still be rooting for an inconsistent shot maker against Nadal, but other than that I do not have much patience with players who just hit and hope.

In tennis, there are no points for "artistic merit" or for "technique" like in say figure skating or even ski jumping.  If someone knows they could get better results by grinding yet they choose to play more aggressively I rather despise them (well, despise may be too strong a word, but it expresses the direction of my sentiment).
In that regard we are very different. I wish I was Federer, but if I can't I'd rather be Youzhny than Nadal or Granollers. I can mock nadal, and Wilander the rest of my life, I'll never mock Mecir or Goran (apart for his haircut).

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 8:47 pm

gallery play wrote:7-7 and the match is postponed.

This does not look good for Andy. He's a slow starter and his hamstring will be sore tomorrow.
i think the break is doing him a favour. He'll get the massage, a painkiller and be like new tomorrow, able to impose his usual physical tennis.
Amazing when just a few serves may decide who wins tomorrow.
They'd better both be ready from the word go!

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sat May 31, 2014 8:50 pm

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:
summerblues wrote:Much as I like Kohli, I think we will need Andy in the SF.
Same here....I am even prepared to sacrifice Federer to have Djoko in final!
I do not think I can go that far.  Certainly, if Roger and Nole were to play on Friday, there is no way I would not be rooting for Roger - even knowing what that would mean.

That is why I really really really need Andy.  In spite of his lack of clay court pedigree, I still think Andy is the only player (other than Nole of course) that has a shot at beating Rafa even if Rafa is playing well.  ....and if he somehow does that, I can root for Roger vs Nole with no worries at the back of my mind smiley
I was going to say that Murray is not even fit enough to beat Kholi.....let alone Rafa....that was before I went to light up my BBQ while they were one set all. Looks like Murray is very unlikely going to be fit enough to beat Kholi as I predicted. Just saved by the gong! (the night). I started a thread about Murray not being the same since his op.

Nadal has the easiest draw by a mile....once again. All our hope is on Ferrer!

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sat May 31, 2014 8:54 pm

gallery play wrote:Strange to see so many empty seats at Lenglen, this is a very entertaining match.

The fifth started off with 4 breaks of serve and they just served 2 love games each. 5-5 game on
The French like their diners....even I disappeared for mine. Winking

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 8:56 pm

What did you cook?  chef

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sat May 31, 2014 8:59 pm

gallery play wrote:7-7 and the match is postponed.

This does not look good for Andy. He's a slow starter and his hamstring will be sore tomorrow.
This is a very recurring problem with Andy. He has it in almost every match that lasts more than 2 sets. I don't think I even remember him not touching his hamstring. It is, I believe, just a bit (or a lot) of cramping. He is probably accumulating a lot of lactic acid in it cause he does too much running for his tall body.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sat May 31, 2014 9:04 pm

noleisthebest wrote:What did you cook?  chef
marinated lamb chops, Sausages and rashers. Greek salad and white wine.

 burger 

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 9:12 pm

Oooooooooh....yumm-eeeee!
I cooked roast lamb marinated in honey and mustard with potatoes, veggies and red wine...but I'd swap it all for a Greek salad & white wine alfresco!

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sat May 31, 2014 9:16 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Oooooooooh....yumm-eeeee!
I cooked roast lamb marinated in honey and mustard with potatoes, veggies and red wine...but I'd swap it all for a Greek salad & white wine alfresco!
Life is tough! Winking

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 10:11 pm

Great matches tomorrow.

I still can't believe Nadal is going to play Lajovic in R4....

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by Tenez on Sat May 31, 2014 10:39 pm

https://fr.news.yahoo.com/video-roland-garros-2014-doigt-d-honneur-fabio-172951734--spt.html

Apparently Fognini did a 2 fingers to the French crowd while leaving the court. Not very professional but I really understand the frustration to have to play against a loud crowd wherever/whichever. Apparently he said he was only targeting one person in the crowd...but I don't believe him.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sat May 31, 2014 11:08 pm

I don't mind a bit of honesty....aaaand coming from Fabio - he did marvellously well under the circumstances.
Ump took a point from him for using vulgar language anyway.
He's got a dynamite of a temper.
Remember Llodra in IW a couple of years ago?

Tennis has been sanitised for too long.

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by ... on Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:14 am

An illustration of the point I was trying to make earlier, that "pretty" points and gutsy play are not as head-case as the appear to some:

In the 10th game, with Sock leading 5-4 (no breaks), Lajovic fell behind 15-40 when he was called for a foot fault. He promptly double-faulted. But he bravely smacked a forehand winner and pulled off the shot of the match on the second of those set points. For the first time on the day, he went serve-and-volley. Sock hit a fine, dipping return that Lajovic took a wild swipe at with a two-handed half-volley that made contact and sent the ball purring back to fall just over the net for a winner. Out of trouble, he finished the game a point later with an inside-out forehand placement.

Lajovic grinned when he was asked about that recovery, explaining: “I don't know how I pulled out that one. I wanted to surprise him, and I just rushed to the net. Then I realized, ‘Oh, I cannot hit the volley, I'm too late.’ Then I didn't really think. I just wanted to have balance, and I took it with the two hands, so I played it unbelievable. I had a bit of luck but it was a good thing to do on set point."

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Re: Roland Garros 2014: MOTD Day 7 Sat 30/05/2014

Post by summerblues on Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:13 am

nitb, some well thought out points from your end.  I do not necessarily see it the same way so let me try to present a view from my angle:

noleisthebest wrote:I think it's underestimated how much pros enjoy playing tennis.
Yes, just like the rest of us they want to win, but, I'll tell you there is no joy playing against your natural flow.
It may win points but it's horrible in the long run. It's like going to work every day and hating your job intensely.
Of course - everything else being the same - it is preferable to enjoy one's job rather than hate it.  But if it is a choice between doing one's job well but disliking it or enjoying the job but not doing it as well, it is the former that I have more respect for.  Same goes for players.  If they can choose between being more successful but having less fun or less successful but having more fun, once again it is the former that I prefer.

noleisthebest wrote:
You call Paire a headcase...but why? What should he do being tall having a great serve? Grind and rally from the baseline?
It's suicidal.
He has to play attacking tennis and hit through players. He has a really great game. He may have fiery spirit that overwhelms him momentarily and interferes with his focus temporarily, but it's all human, players are not robots, although some appear to be.
He is tall but not so tall that he could not have decent baseline game.  He could be far more successful if he put enough effort to hone that game - not to try to out-baseline baseline grinders but to improve his success from there.  If, let's say, one currently wins 10% of baseline rallies but manages to improve to win 30% of baseline rallies, that will improve their chances to win matches significantly, even though they will still obviously need to try to avoid baseline exchanges.  He just strikes me like someone who is unwilling to do what is necessary to have better success.  I could be wrong, maybe he is trying but his talents just do not lie that way, but that is a different point altogether.

In other words, I am not saying he should throw away his attacking game and paste himself to the baseline, but rather that he should work harder on that baseline game because the realities are such that improving baseline game would improve his results.

noleisthebest wrote:And they are usually the ones who have no other options but to be calm and patient, like less talented students who spend three times as many hours to prepare for an exam.
I do not view talent and hard work as either-or choices.  In my mind, I am imagining Federer - with all his talent - as a very hard worker who puts in countless boring hours to make himself as good as he is.  If I were to find out that I was wrong and that he got to where he is with much less work, my opinion of him would go down rather than up.

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