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Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

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Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by noleisthebest on Fri May 23, 2014 9:22 am

Wilander's thoughts on RG favourites. Straight and to the point:  Winking 

"Heading into the French Open, it's more exciting, that regular tour probably benefits from having one superstar that's cleaning up everything, or maybe a rivalry. But the French Open and the other Slams benefit from having no clear-cut favourite. That's the way it used to be, and I think it's better. I don't think we want to go there and ask ourselves: Is Nadal going to win a ninth time? That just doesn't excite me at all. It's much more exciting to think that Djokovic is the favourite or that (Roger) Federer has a chance.

There's all this scar tissue he can reason with and say, 'Hold on, I won Madrid, this is the French Open, I'm fresher than ever.' He's going to put a little less pressure on himself but still go in with a sense of confidence knowing it's five sets. And he can think, 'What are they going to do? How are they going to beat me in two hours? That's never going to happen. I have four hours to solve this problem.' That gives him confidence right away."



The question now is: can anyone beat Nadal in two hours in the best of 5?
I can only think of two players that can do it: Djokovic and Nishikori.


http://www.calgaryherald.com/touch/sports/2014+FRENCH+OPEN+Nadal+quite+self+clay+everything+less+obvious/9866994/story.html?rel=9867828



Last edited by noleisthebest on Fri May 23, 2014 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by Autumnleaf on Fri May 23, 2014 10:47 am

Very interesting.

Wilander knows that this year will probably not be very different. Nadal will be able to outlast 99% of other players. Redlining the game won't work over 3 sets, although one can hope. Djoko has a realistic chance, he can match him; not sure about Nishi. I think it will depend on his draw. If he has to play, say Ferrer in 4R, it could become very difficult for him.

He's right that every neutral fan of tennis (not to talk about fans of other players) will be much more excited by the chance of a winner different than Nadal. Only die-hard Nadal-fans can be excited by him winning another RG.  sleepy That explains why every year, the chances of other players are hyped up. Only to be disappointed by the inevitable anticlimax.   With the sole exception of RG 2009. What a great RG that was, thank you, Robin Söderling!  Applause

So should ATP do something to make it harder for Nadal? Wilander mentions an interesting antagonism here: while the slams would profit from new winners, the regular tour would not, because they need the superstars to succeed. So that will probably result in Nadal having his way.

Things to stop Nadal in the long run: 1) a real injury or 2) sickness or 3) a positive drug test (fat chance of that happening) 4) bad response of his body to drugs. Else I am afraid he might clean up RG with 35 in a world where a 40 year old cyclist can win the Vuelta de Espagna or a 40 year old biathlet can win Olympic gold in singles.

I am hoping for the best, expecting the worst!

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by noleisthebest on Fri May 23, 2014 10:59 am

I don't think other players have ever been hyped up for RG. Nadal was always proclaimed the main favourite.
Even this year, he is a max 50/50 against Djokovic, bookies are giving him advantage, as well.
Djokovic has been the real threat last three years.

Conditions can vary hugely in RG and that can make a difference how long the match lasts.
In wet, cold conditions where the ball has lower bounce, I have no problem seeing Nole beat Nadal in three sets this year.  In two hours.

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by gallery play on Sat May 24, 2014 8:27 am

Autumnleaf wrote:Very interesting.

Wilander knows that this year will probably not be very different. Nadal will be able to outlast 99% of other players. Redlining the game won't work over 3 sets, although one can hope. Djoko has a realistic chance, he can match him; not sure about Nishi. I think it will depend on his draw. If he has to play, say Ferrer in 4R, it could become very difficult for him.

He's right that every neutral fan of tennis (not to talk about fans of other players) will be much more excited by the chance of a winner different than Nadal. Only die-hard Nadal-fans can be excited by him winning another RG.  sleepy That explains why every year, the chances of other players are hyped up. Only to be disappointed by the inevitable anticlimax.   With the sole exception of RG 2009. What a great RG that was, thank you, Robin Söderling!  Applause

So should ATP do something to make it harder for Nadal? Wilander mentions an interesting antagonism here: while the slams would profit from new winners, the regular tour would not, because they need the superstars to succeed. So that will probably result in Nadal having his way.

Things to stop Nadal in the long run: 1) a real injury or 2) sickness or 3) a positive drug test (fat chance of that happening) 4) bad response of his body to drugs. Else I am afraid he might clean up RG with 35 in a world where a 40 year old cyclist can win the Vuelta de Espagna or a 40 year old biathlet can win Olympic gold in singles.

I am hoping for the best, expecting the worst!

Well, they did in Roger's case (bigger balls , slower courts and closing their eyes for doping).

Anyway, Wilander is right. NAdal always has a few hours to solve the problem (read: wait till the opponant tires). It's easy for him to control the game, he simply knows he'll be the fitter one at the end of the match. In a Bo3 format that part is less relevant. Unless it's 3 gruelling sets.
We knew Sod had to do it in that fourth set in 2009.

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by Tenez on Sat May 24, 2014 9:07 am

This why I think Nadal's draw is by far easier. Cause noone in his draw can actually shorten rallies (Gulbis, Nishi, Rao, Dolgo)...he only has players who we know have no weapons AND will never outlast him.


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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by Daniel on Sat May 24, 2014 11:22 am

That won't last.  Tennis is not cycling.  Nadal has a couple of years left, and already the signs that he is on his way out are clear.  Nadal doesn't just rely on his speed and strength, he needs it 100%.  And you will see in the next 2 years, Nadal fall right off the radar.  When he can no longer keep up and his body caves in.

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by gallery play on Sat May 24, 2014 8:10 pm

FedererKing wrote:That won't last.  Tennis is not cycling.  Nadal has a couple of years left, and already the signs that he is on his way out are clear.  Nadal doesn't just rely on his speed and strength, he needs it 100%.  And you will see in the next 2 years, Nadal fall right off the radar.  When he can no longer keep up and his body caves in.
True, stamina is one thing but he'll lose a step on the short sprints and that means he'll lose more and more long rallies.
But this year he's  favorite, and like T says: even more so after the draw he got

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by wildflower on Sat May 24, 2014 11:00 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I don't think other players have ever been hyped up for RG. Nadal was always proclaimed the main favourite.
Even this year, he is a max 50/50 against Djokovic, bookies are giving him advantage, as well.
Djokovic has been the real threat last three years.

Conditions can vary hugely in RG and that can make a difference how long the match lasts.
In wet, cold conditions where the ball has lower bounce, I have no problem seeing Nole beat Nadal in three sets this year.  In two hours.
The problem is, apart from being what he is on clay, lady luck loves Nadal. Look what happened last year. It was pretty cold and raining throughout the tournament but the weather worked for him in that SF match against Djokovic. 
There is another thing that worries me too, Djokovic wants RG title badly and it obviously doesn't help. Wanting it that much makes him make strange mistakes. Hopefully he won't lose it this year too :P

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by Tenez on Sat May 24, 2014 11:17 pm

Hi Wildflower - good to have you here. How have you discovered this site? Are you coming from another forum such as V2 or 606?

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 24, 2014 11:27 pm

Tenez wrote:Hi Wildflower - good to have you here. How have you discovered this site? Are you coming from another forum such as V2 or 606?

My kind of question Winking

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 24, 2014 11:29 pm

wildflower wrote:
The problem is, apart from being what he is on clay, lady luck loves Nadal. Look what happened last year. It was pretty cold and raining throughout the tournament but the weather worked for him in that SF match against Djokovic. 
There is another thing that worries me too, Djokovic wants RG title badly and it obviously doesn't help. Wanting it that much makes him make strange mistakes. Hopefully he won't lose it this year too :P

I hope so, too. If he makes it to the final, I reckon he'll win it. He'll have a bit of extra help this time!

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by wildflower on Sun May 25, 2014 12:09 am

Tenez wrote:Hi Wildflower - good to have you here. How have you discovered this site? Are you coming from another forum such as V2 or 606?
The two of you are so curious  Laugh 

I joined 606 not long before it died. I posted a bit but not too much. Been posting on MTL but found my way here after summerblues posted the link to this site on Tennis Talk forum. There, now you know  Winking

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 25, 2014 12:15 am

wildflower wrote:
Tenez wrote:Hi Wildflower - good to have you here. How have you discovered this site? Are you coming from another forum such as V2 or 606?
The two of you are so curious  Laugh 
I joined 606 not long before it died. I posted a bit but not too much. Been posting on MTL but found my way here after summerblues posted the link to this site on Tennis Talk forum. There, now you know  Winking

I do remember a poster from BBC606. The name consisted of three words and one of them was a colour, was that you?
Anyway, good to have another Nole fan here smiley!

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by Autumnleaf on Tue May 27, 2014 9:54 am

Jim Courir takes the same line  Grr 

“We have to remember that he’s only ever lost one best-of-five-set match on red clay. And that’s because he makes things so physical. It’s already a big enough challenge to beat Nadal over three sets on clay, but trying to do it over five sets is the biggest challenge in the history of men’s tennis. He’s had question marks over his body this year, but hopefully those question marks have been replaced by exclamation points. You hope that he’s feeling good after playing some long matches in Rome. Even though he didn’t win the title in Rome, you hope that he got some physical confidence out of it. In Paris, if he can make matches physical, he’s so tough to beat.”

thetennisspace.com/courier-nadal-has-never-bought-into-his-own-greatness/

These guys know what Nadal is all about. Reports of his physical demise were greatly exaggerated. In spite of so many career threatening injuries and other woes, he is still alive and kicking. monster


Last edited by Autumnleaf on Tue May 27, 2014 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : remove unnecessary space)

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by noleisthebest on Tue May 27, 2014 10:01 am

As I said on another thread, they are just salesmen. All they care about is the pay-check.
What they think privately is another matter.

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by Tenez on Tue May 27, 2014 10:11 am

I think they are right...how good a player is is almost irrelevant when facing Nadal, cause their game is likely to give in by the second or 3rd set.

I'd say the only way to beat him is almost physically. Djoko can do that cause Djoko lasts longer. Guys who have power on both wings can too. Some were close to do it in the past, some could have done it (Davydenko/Nalby). Nadal is of course extremely fit but there is a part of bluff in his game. Showing he is fit is as important. But against Djoko and Davydenko he has shown signs that he actually tires quicker than the opponent.

So currently I would indeed think Djoko can beat him...in 3, 4 or 5 sets. But the rest? Doubt it....Murray if does not cramp after 4 games! Winking

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Re: Wilander: Nobody Can Beat Nadal In Two Hours

Post by Tenez on Tue May 27, 2014 10:28 am

Well he might as well if he cannot find his edge back. Shame he could not re-enter the top 10 where he belonged.

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