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ATP Masters 1000: Rome

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Post by gallery play on Fri May 16, 2014 11:01 pm

Djezus, and now watch the Nadal of 4 weeks ago...
He has had special treatment again, otherwise this can't be explained.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri May 16, 2014 11:01 pm

So after this match: Nishi, Dolgo, Murray, Fed....all in Nole's half in RG!

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Post by Tenez on Fri May 16, 2014 11:02 pm

gallery play wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
gallery play wrote:Nadal's eyes are definitly saying: "i can do this for another 5 hours"

But the sight of Nole on the other side of the net and all the confidence melts away...he clearly thinks he's got this one in the bag, and I so hope Murray can hold on for another 10 minutes!
Let's hope Nole's fitness it back to where it once was
He needs much less fitness than Murray. He dictates with more ease, constructs the point a tiny bit better than Murray and that makes a whole difference. Of course Djoko's concern is the wrist. That I don't know.

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Post by Tenez on Fri May 16, 2014 11:04 pm

gallery play wrote:Djezus, and now watch the Nadal of 4 weeks ago...
He has had special treatment again, otherwise this can't be explained.
I must say the fitness he finished with today was very impressive. scary!

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Post by Tenez on Fri May 16, 2014 11:05 pm

noleisthebest wrote:So after this match: Nishi, Dolgo, Murray, Fed....all in Nole's half in RG!
Add Ferrer, Almagro and Verdasco (just in case)...and they will give Borg a WC to play Nadal!

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Post by gallery play on Fri May 16, 2014 11:06 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
gallery play wrote:Nadal's eyes are definitly saying: "i can do this for another 5 hours"

But the sight of Nole on the other side of the net and all the confidence melts away...he clearly thinks he's got this one in the bag, and I so hope Murray can hold on for another 10 minutes!
Let's hope Nole's fitness it back to where it once was
He needs much less fitness than Murray. He dictates with more ease, constructs the point a tiny bit better than Murray and that makes a whole difference. Of course Djoko's concern is the wrist. That I don't know.
Yes, i was talking about the wrist too.

And Yes, based on what i saw tonight, Djoko (if he gets to the final) will bury Nadal's BH. Murray's CC FH is by no means as deadly as Noles BH DTL. But at RG i expect nothing but a roid-rage from Nadal.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri May 16, 2014 11:07 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:Djezus, and now watch the Nadal of 4 weeks ago...
He has had special treatment again, otherwise this can't be explained.
I must say the fitness he finished with today was very impressive. scary!

It is, but Murray actually didn't make him run that much, so that saved Nadal energy. Murray indulged in muscle exchanges with Nadal mid-court or CC, didn't spread the court like Nole does.

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Post by gallery play on Fri May 16, 2014 11:08 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:Djezus, and now watch the Nadal of 4 weeks ago...
He has had special treatment again, otherwise this can't be explained.
I must say the fitness he finished with today was very impressive. scary!
Scary is not the right word, because we've seen it so often. It's annoying

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri May 16, 2014 11:12 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:So after this match: Nishi, Dolgo, Murray, Fed....all in Nole's half in RG!
Add Ferrer, Almagro and Verdasco (just in case)...and they will give Borg a WC to play Nadal!
 Laugh 
That will be so good for The Show!

Nadal will have Gulbis,  Lopez, Robredo, Youzhny, Granollers and Berdych..


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Post by Tenez on Fri May 16, 2014 11:14 pm

gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
gallery play wrote:Nadal's eyes are definitly saying: "i can do this for another 5 hours"

But the sight of Nole on the other side of the net and all the confidence melts away...he clearly thinks he's got this one in the bag, and I so hope Murray can hold on for another 10 minutes!
Let's hope Nole's fitness it back to where it once was
He needs much less fitness than Murray. He dictates with more ease, constructs the point a tiny bit better than Murray and that makes a whole difference. Of course Djoko's concern is the wrist. That I don't know.
Yes, i was talking about the wrist too.

And Yes, based on what i saw tonight, Djoko (if he gets to the final) will bury Nadal's BH. Murray's CC FH is by no means as deadly as Noles BH DTL. But at RG i expect nothing but a roid-rage from Nadal.
Yes we can expect Nadal to be very fit at the FO. But more and more can attack his shots nowadays. Still I can;t see him lose before the final. All down to how Djoko gets there.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri May 16, 2014 11:19 pm

I don't know what to think of Nole and RG any more...the whole thing has started living a life of it's own, he wants it too much.
On paper, he should have won it last three years...

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Post by Tenez on Fri May 16, 2014 11:40 pm

Last 2....Not sure about last 3! Winking

I think the week between now and the FO will do Djoko lots of good.

Does anyone can see the resemblance between Kaa the snake in the jungle book and Raonic's picture currently on the ATP banner?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=metwE-QpgAY

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 12:46 am

Tenez wrote:Last 2....Not sure about last 3! Winking

I think the week between now and the FO will do Djoko lots of good.

Does anyone can see the resemblance between Kaa the snake in the jungle book and Raonic's picture currently on the ATP banner?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=metwE-QpgAY
it reminds me of how Nadal hypnotises and strangles  his "victims" much more...
I love the next scene when the tiger comes and it has to let go and slithers away sheepishly Winking
I actually remembered this film today but for a completely different reason!

That photo of Raonic made me laugh and cringe, though. If Dimi and he go on to be the next Fedal, Raonic is going to be an easy baddie....

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 1:32 am

So Rafa survived yet again.  I will check out some of the 2nd and 3rd sets to see how well Rafa was playing.  But based on what I saw of him earlier this year, I would have to think Nole should take him out - if Nole gets there and if his wrist is ok.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 1:33 am

...and if Rafa gets there, of course.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 1:34 am

noleisthebest wrote:He's got a perfect game for Nadal: fit enough to rally ad nauseum but wasting about 75% less energy than Nadal
Pretty impressive this Nole, is he not? Winking

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Post by Tenez on Sat May 17, 2014 8:20 am

Djoko should have a good advantage for Sunday. His problem will be for his wrist returning Rao's bombs. But he shoudl not lose much energy in the process plus he plays at 2pm and has 6 hours extra to recover than Nadal's probably long match v Diimi.

Once again I stress how unfair those tournaments are with their scheduling. When we know how small margins make difference in this sport, giving a 35% extra recovery time at a player before a final is absurd....though in this case it compensate for the many advantages Nadal got over the years.

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Post by gallery play on Sat May 17, 2014 8:24 am

What Nadal said:

"The physical part is really good, the mental part too, and my tennis is going to be there sooner or later,"

Yes, in this specific order..Tennis comes at third place.

It's just a shame that a guy like him ended up as a tennisplayer. He should have been a soldier or something Winking

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 8:37 am

summerblues wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:He's got a perfect game for Nadal: fit enough to rally ad nauseum but wasting about 75% less energy than Nadal
Pretty impressive this Nole, is he not? Winking

I was talking about Murray there, not Nole!!!!!!!  ATP Masters 1000: Rome - Page 5 562938853 

I was quite impressed with Murray's counter-punching and defence last night, particularly his hands as he was able to return some difficult wide balls with such ease and cover the court with incredible speed. He has such variety of shots when defending, very tough to put away: nice, long slices on both wings buying him so much time.

He then switched into the hard  hitting muscling mode in the second set as Nadal started zipping the ball like there's no tomorrow, and did quite well...until he ran out of gas....he fell into Nadal's trap thinking he could outlast him.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 8:52 am

Tenez wrote:Djoko should have a good advantage for Sunday. His problem will be for his wrist returning Rao's bombs. But he shoudl not lose much energy in the process plus he plays at 2pm and has 6 hours extra to recover than Nadal's probably long match v Diimi.

Once again I stress how unfair those tournaments are with their scheduling. When we know how small margins make difference in this sport, giving a 35% extra recovery time at a player before a final is absurd....though in this case it compensate for the many advantages Nadal got over the years.

...and is still having them even in this tournament by having the draw of his dreams. Mind you, I'm sure next time he'll choose Ferrer over Murray.

As for  Nole-Raonic, I saw the only match they played live in Belgrade last September, Davis Cup SF, and remember being more impressed with Pospisil.
Raonic lasted one set, lost the TB and with it the confidence. He lives in Monte Carlo and often trains with Nole, so they are used to each other's hitting.
I saw a few points against Chardy yesterday and was surprised how much he didn't mind rallying, obviously that's not going to work against Nole, so he'll have even more pressure on his serve.

Nadal -Dimi....after seeing Nadal in his full beast mode last night, I felt protective over poor Dimi! But the good thing about him, he has lots of belief, and it will be interesting to see how he plays tonight.
He can't outlast Nadal, so he'll have to be so patient and focused in his aggression. It would be good if he could take it to three sets, Italian crowd seem to like Dimi a lot, so will definitely be on his side, and Nadal does not like not being liked at all!  Winking

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 8:59 am

gallery play wrote:What Nadal said:

"The physical part is really good, the mental part too, and my tennis is going to be there sooner or later,"
Yes, in this specific order..Tennis comes at third place.
It's just a shame that a guy like him ended up as a tennisplayer. He should have been a soldier or something Winking

Depressing...
I wonder what he classifies as "his tennis".
Probably hitting  FH "winners" like a maniac and landing them on the line after 50 shot rallies like he used to in 2009.
As for ideal job for Nadal:

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Post by Tenez on Sat May 17, 2014 9:34 am

gallery play wrote:What Nadal said:

"The physical part is really good, the mental part too, and my tennis is going to be there sooner or later,"

Yes, in this specific order..Tennis comes at third place.

It's just a shame that a guy like him ended up as a tennisplayer. He should have been a soldier or something Winking
Soldiers have got courage....they would typically not go for high margins.

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Post by Tenez on Sat May 17, 2014 9:41 am

Just realised that Nadal has not won the FO 5 times in a row!....yet! Fed got that feat in both Wimby and USO!

Someone stops him in 3 weeks!

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 9:42 am

Tenez wrote:Just realised that Nadal has not won the FO 5 times in a row!....yet! Fed got that feat in both Wimby and USO!

Someone stops him in 3 weeks!

I'll do my very best  Cool 

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 12:20 pm

I did not get to see much tennis this clay court season, so really looking forward to today's matches. Perhaps the top two guys of the next generation against the top two of the current one. Sadly, I have to say I expect a Rafa vs Nole final tomorrow but, especially in Grigor's case, will be hoping for an upset.

Grigor has never beaten Rafa (yet smiley), but he has never lost to him in straight sets either (yet?), so he can hopefully at least put up a fight.

Having watched bits of Rafa vs Andy last night, I have to say that - sadly - Rafa looked to me better than at any time this season. He will yet again be very hard to beat at the French.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 12:28 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I saw a few points against Chardy yesterday and was surprised how much he didn't mind rallying, obviously that's not going to work against Nole, so he'll have even more pressure on his serve.
Both Raonic and Dimi have spent a good part of the last year and a bit building up their fitness. Unlike you, I do not hold it against them - they recognized what tennis required today and decided to do their best to get themselves ready.

The only thing is that in Raonic's case, I am not convinced how good a move that was. He is too big for endless rallying, so he may have spent his time more productively focusing on something else - maybe even S&V.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 12:33 pm

Tenez wrote:Once again I stress how unfair those tournaments are with their scheduling. When we know how small margins make difference in this sport, giving a 35% extra recovery time at a player before a final is absurd....
I hate it too when an MS1000 has one semi in the afternoon and another one in the evening. Crazy. I am sure they are doing it because it allows them to sell two sets of tickets instead of one.

Of course, it felt quite nice in 2011 after the fact - when Nole played the evening SF, had a grueling match against Andy with most people thinking he would be spent the next day against Rafa, yet he dispatched him with ease. smiley

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Post by Daniel on Sat May 17, 2014 12:35 pm

Dimitrov is going to kill Nadal.  And what is it with Nadal making a meal of every win?  Why does he feel the need to over exaggerate celebrations and fist pumps?  Is he just a complete retard?

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 12:39 pm

noleisthebest wrote:...and is still having them even in this tournament by having the draw of his dreams.
One thing about this forum that can get tedious for me is how whiny it often gets. I would say Rafa had tougher QF and SF opponents than Nole, or at least certainly they do not look particularly easier.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 12:41 pm

FedererKing wrote:Dimitrov is going to kill Nadal.
I hope you are right but I am not so sure. What makes you say that?

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Post by Daniel on Sat May 17, 2014 12:45 pm

summerblues wrote:
FedererKing wrote:Dimitrov is going to kill Nadal.
I hope you are right but I am not so sure.  What makes you say that?

Nadal isn't the usual self, and he can't keep getting away with it.  Dimitrov is a rising star, and I just feel he will do it.  Gut feeling.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 1:41 pm

I realized I have not seen much of Raonic lately. Quite impressed with what I am seeing from him so far today. His game is rounding up fairly nicely from where he used to be.

I also think he is playing the right tactics - he is trying to be the aggressor without going for too much.

Let's see how long it will last.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 2:02 pm

Rao holding up so far, but I think it is also clear why someone like Dimi will have a better chance to do well in the long run. It is just too hard to hit through guys like Nole or Rafa, so to compete one has to be able to hold their own in the long rallies, and Rao is probably too big for that.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 2:14 pm

I love watching Boris in the bix, he really is living everything Nole is going through.
Just started watching...very tense match which is usually the case when you have a superserver in it.
A bit disappointed with Nole's safe rallying, could have co certed at least one of tnose BPs had he gone for his shots.
Milos...just gutless.
For someone of his size and serve he should be charging forward with ease...

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 2:16 pm

Raonic living on the edge. A good few bad errors in this game, but he got out of it in the end, so no breaks so far.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 2:23 pm

summerblues wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I saw a few points against Chardy yesterday and was surprised how much he didn't mind rallying, obviously that's not going to work against Nole, so he'll have even more pressure on his serve.
Both Raonic and Dimi have spent a good part of the last year and a bit building up their fitness.  Unlike you, I do not hold it against them - they recognized what tennis required today and decided to do their best to get themselves ready.

The only thing is that in Raonic's case, I am not convinced how good a move that was.  He is too big for endless rallying, so he may have spent his time more productively focusing on something else - maybe even S&V.

I don't have a problem with their fitness in the least, just the game they play. They are both tall and not built to scramble around (Dimi) or rally (Raonic), that type of game will keep them on top 10 but won't win them slams.
Ideally, Raonic should lose a bit of weight and work heavily on his transition game. With a serve like his, there is no excuse for rallying.
Dimi is more mobile which is why he scrambles, he has every shot in the book but no game.
Paire has a really great game and he is roughly their size.
You need guts for it, though.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 2:26 pm

For Paire's game, you just need to lack brains. It has zilch to do with guts.

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Post by Tenez on Sat May 17, 2014 2:28 pm

summerblues wrote:I realized I have not seen much of Raonic lately.  Quite impressed with what I am seeing from him so far today.  His game is rounding up fairly nicely from where he used to be.

I also think he is playing the right tactics - he is trying to be the aggressor without going for too much.

Let's see how long it will last.
Agree...he still makes too many easy UEs. He would be deadly if he had more confidence.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 2:29 pm

Nole looked the steadier of the two, especially in the second half of the set.



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Post by Tenez on Sat May 17, 2014 2:32 pm

Djoko is really playing ugly. What a pusher in those TBs!

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 2:33 pm

Look at where Nole waits for Raonic's serve: bang on the baseline.
Raonic stands 3-4m behind.
Says everything.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 2:34 pm

Tenez wrote:Djoko is really playing ugly. What a pusher in those TBs!
That third point in the tie break was just insane. Rao did everything right, yet he could not hit through Nole.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 2:37 pm

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:Djoko is really playing ugly. What a pusher in those TBs!
That third point in the tie break was just insane.  Rao did everything right, yet he could not hit through Nole.

That's because he plays safe shots and can't volley to save his life.
Nole playing crap, as gutless as Raonic...should've won this set three hames away had he played properly.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 2:38 pm

Nicely done.

Nitb, pretty cheeky of you to watch this and call Rao gutless.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 2:39 pm

Nitb, just saw your last comment. Fair enough.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 2:39 pm

summerblues wrote:Nicely done.

Nitb, pretty cheeky of you to watch this and call Rao gutless.

Why?
You think he's not?

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Post by Tenez on Sat May 17, 2014 2:41 pm

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:Djoko is really playing ugly. What a pusher in those TBs!
That third point in the tie break was just insane.  Rao did everything right, yet he could not hit through Nole.

Yes because Djoko does not give him any pace so he has to hit the ball with power and accuracy, which we know is very hard to do. Even when the courts were faster Hewitt managed to win 2 slams doing just that.

Sure Djoko returns well but after that, it's just careful placement.

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Post by summerblues on Sat May 17, 2014 2:42 pm

Well, I think Nole was certainly more "gutless" of the two (mind you, I am pretty sure in reality it has nothinng to do with guts, but that is a separate topic).

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat May 17, 2014 2:47 pm

summerblues wrote:Well, I think Nole was certainly more "gutless" of the two (mind you, I am pretty sure in reality it has nothinng to do with guts, but that is a separate topic).

Well, try and put yourself in each of their shoes individually and imagine how you would play with what they each have.
I don't think I'd spend too much time on the baseline if I had Raonic's serve.
If I was Nole, I'd loosen shoulders and take the FH earlier, like he does against Nadal.

Anyway...let's see if he can dig himself out if this self-inflicted misery.

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Post by Tenez on Sat May 17, 2014 2:50 pm

Djoko lacks clearly confidence....probably his wrist, like the elbow it is crucial in tennis!

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