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Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

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Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 08, 2014 4:02 pm

After John McEnroe:

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/busted-racquet/john-mcenroe-rafael-nadal-best-ever-even-first-164644632.html

Andre Agassi joins Nadal GOAT band:

"I'd put Nadal number one, Federer number two.
Federer separated himself from the field for four years. He separated himself from Roddick and Hewitt.
Nadal had to deal with Federer, Djokovic, Murray in the golden age of tennis. He has done what he has done and he's not done yet.

But Nadal has a convincing 23-10 head-to-head record against Federer and is one Australian Open victory away from becoming only the third man to win all four Grand Slam titles twice.
He has won multiple majors, every single one (more than once) except the Australian Open - and give him another year on that.
It's just remarkable to me what he has done, and he has done it all during Federer's prime."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rafaelnadal/10816170/Andre-Agassi-picks-Rafael-Nadal-ahead-of-Rogere-Federer-as-tenniss-greatest-all-time-player.html

What is it with all these former number ones...professional jealousy?



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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by truffin1 on Thu May 08, 2014 4:21 pm

Well, Federer always has Laver and Sampras on his side--  real Goats...  also every other all time great player living is on record saying Fed is Goat except for two now- McEnroe with his "there is an argument" talk and now Agassi... 

I doupt Federer is losing sleep over it- more like crying babies keeping him up.

Certainly as a fan I could care less whether Federer is #1,2 or 5 all time.



Funny thing about Agassi's argument though-  I'd say Federer separated himself from Djokovic and Murray as well--   hell- Murray still can't match Federer for more than a couple of months in ranking and success until Fed had the bad back 2013...    It took Murray until Fed was in his 30's to close the gap results wise.   Federer won plenty while Djokovic was around-- and as far as Nadal-      he was stuck at #2 for a long time an clay was all that kept him even close to Federer....      Federer's done fine against both generations.


Last edited by truffin1 on Thu May 08, 2014 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 08, 2014 4:22 pm

What makes it even worse is that Agassi admitted he used drugs during his career and never returned any of the trophies, not even apologised to fans and fellow players.
ATP just kept quiet and still is.

Funny but Agassi, Graf and Nadal (by far) are the only three players I strongly disliked.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Daniel on Thu May 08, 2014 4:31 pm

Agassi can put who he likes as number 1, but history and the record books will say Federer.  Nadal is simply a moonballing defender.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Tenez on Thu May 08, 2014 4:33 pm

To be fair Agassi was probably referring to DGOAT.....drugged goats like him!

I noticed a trend....Guys who seem "quite" clean (Rochus, Santoro, Tsonga, Ljubo, Bjorkman, Edberg...) would always pick Federer over Nadal. Those who are a bit more dubious (if not guilty like Agassi) : Agassi, Berdych, Murray Verdasco, McEnroe would pick Nadal.

Self explanatory.


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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Daniel on Thu May 08, 2014 4:42 pm

It's also the fact that the ones placing Nadal first are the same boring baseline types as well.  The ones who simply put every ball back and wait for mistakes.  Probably also jealous that Federer oozes talent.  A bit like that arsehole Mark Selby in snooker the other night.  Pathetic.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Tenez on Thu May 08, 2014 4:44 pm

FedererKing wrote:....  A bit like that arsehole Mark Selby in snooker the other night.  Pathetic.

I have not digested that one! Though I was glad he beat Robertson .

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by truffin1 on Thu May 08, 2014 9:08 pm

Murray really shows what a golden age of competiton Nadal had on the one surface he can claim consistency- clay. smh

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 08, 2014 11:24 pm

Murray!!!  Doh 
No wonder Lendl left...the poor guy simply couldn't take that misery any more Laugh

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Daniel on Thu May 08, 2014 11:49 pm

Tenez wrote:
FedererKing wrote:....  A bit like that arsehole Mark Selby in snooker the other night.  Pathetic.

I have not digested that one! Though I was glad he beat Robertson .

I have.  The bottom line is, snooker favours that kind of player.  The rules and structure cater to it.  And unlike tennis, it has never been any different at any point in time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRwfW_3dHZc

The one by Daniel Burke is from me.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by truffin1 on Sat May 10, 2014 4:22 pm

Jon Wertheim tweeted out some thoughts about Agassi's statement-   reading between the line- Wertheim thinks he's crazy, that most in tennis view Nadals ups and downs as blocking him from goat.  Wertheim theory is Agassi see's the ups and downs as similar to his career and by elevating Nadal---  it also elevates himself.  

If the ups and downs don't matter- than it doesn't hurt Agassi's standing either- is his probable thought.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Tenez on Sat May 10, 2014 5:35 pm

I looked for the JW article but could not read it. I don;t really know why Agassi said that. His main argument seems to be that Nadal is the unique player having nearly won a minimum of 2 slams. The fact is that he has not. Like Federer he has one AO while Fed has one FO....but on the other 3 slams, Fed has a minimum of 4, (5 and 7) so it's a considerably more significant achievement.

And if we look at the H2H, wait until Djoko keeps humiliating Nadal, then it will be difficult to talk about Fed's H2H and more so Nadal's GOAT place.

It might be a way for Agassi to please his fans....who are probably the same as Nadal's.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by truffin1 on Mon May 12, 2014 5:12 pm

I am almost glad Agassi opened his mouth because at least here in the states- its being met with derision from the tennis writers and commentators. 

I heard another commentary that now makes a whole lot of sense.  Apparently- Agassi along with some of the other players has been given an ownership in this new pro league they are playing at the end of the year in Asia.  Agassi is on a press tour to drum up excitement and that is where he made the statements.. in Singapore.   Apparently, so far- sales are spotty and everywhere they are going the questions are "why hasn't Federer joined"  Federer turned up his nose at the league while Nadal is supposed to be the big draw.   Sounds like Agassi is just engaging in some marketing, propping up his business partner Nadal, while taking out some frustration that Federer hasn't joined them which would bring in the crowds- esp in Asia where he is a uber rock star.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Tenez on Mon May 12, 2014 6:02 pm

I thought strongly about sponsors but since Fed and Nadal have roughly the same sponsors I kind of was lost...but this is also so much in contradiction with what Agassi was saying just a few months ago I knew it was a marketing coup.....there you have it Makes lots of sense Truffin. Agasi is so desperate about money that he is ready to travel the world for this circus show and talk non sense if it can help promote it.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 12, 2014 6:15 pm

The Asians (China) are desperate for the fifth slam, hence this new mixed celebrity end of season tour/event.
On the one hand, I do understand their need to see top players as they only have one Masters 1000 event (Shanghai) and one 500 (Peking), but that is obviously for a reason...they simply have no tennis tradition and history and are just trying to buy it throwing money at it.
To my knowledge, Federer has not completely dismissed it, he said he would make the decision later, which is quite understandable in his circumstances.

His presence would give so much instant class and appeal to the entire event, without him despite having Nole, Murray and Nadal it's just a traveling circus.

Agassi, he simply talks too much...and is probably already regretting the comment. I bet even Steffi is disgusted!



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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Tenez on Mon May 12, 2014 6:24 pm

In regard to your post I find this Japanese/Chinese partnership (Nishi/Chang) very bizarre. Ok CHang is probably more American than Chinese but surely Nishi chose Chang because of his Asian origin yet we know how much Chineses and Japanese dislike each other historically.

That's the good thing about sport...they suddenly can team up and feel best buddies suddenly.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 12, 2014 6:35 pm

I think Nishi spent a lot of time in the US, as well. I thought that partnership was quirky, but at the same time natural.
It's not a coincidence Cilic hired Ivanisevic and Raonic hired Ljubicic.

Not to mention the ultimate: Toni and Rafa.

It cuts out a lot of initial getting to know each other. That's why Nole never clicked with Todd Martin, and is taking a long time with Becker.

In the locker-room and player lounges, players usually hang around according to the nationality.

I find this whole aspect of tennis globalisation very attractive.
Thanks to Federer, Fedal has raised the popularity of the sport so much.
Every week when I do tournament threads I travel in spirit a little.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 12, 2014 7:31 pm

Tenez wrote: Surely  Nishi chose Chang because of his Asian origin we know how much Chineses and Japanese dislike each other historicgally.
That's the good thing about sport...they suddenly can team up and feel best buddies suddenly
.

The most recent controversial international tennis partnership is the Indo-Pak Express, the doubles Bopanma/Quershi.
Dubai once refused to give playing visa to Shahar Per and Ram, so Roddick, who was the defending champion boycotted it. Federer, Nadal, Davydenko, Tsonga withdrew with injury....and Murray won!
Serbian DC team had death threats during their SF tie in Croatia 2010...but thankfully, the players rose above  it and Nole played a huge part.
Also I think Algerian or Tunisian team was not allowed to travel to a Davis Cup match a few months ago...but that's always been the case throughout history 1936, 1980 Olympics... And probably a lot more since, but I just stopped following it all.

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Tenez on Mon May 12, 2014 7:47 pm

Yes...I knew all that ... Ind/Paki for instance are only separated since the end of British colonialism so before that they were all at peace...In Europe we have always been at war with each other but also were allies with each others in many other occasions. We forget quickly as we are also quite similar.

but Japanese/Chinese? I thought that was the most antagonist team!


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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 12, 2014 8:51 pm

Tenez wrote:In  Europe we have always been at war with each other but also were allies with each others in many other occasions. We forget quickly as we are also quite similar. but Japanese/Chinese? I thought that was the most antagonist team!
As you know, I had a lot of dealings with Chinese/Japanese/S.Koreans and they are very different. I think Japanese are the most unique of all. I won't go into details as this is a public forum and all that comes with it...I think they dislike each other a lot more than we do in Europe.
Japanese live in big fear from China now, both economically and militarily.
But I'll tell you they all have a huge love for money and an enormous hunger for financial ambition. It's almost exclusive of everything else.

In a way they are an interesting political entity/player in the current climate.

I wonder what Agassi thinks of it all? Winking

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Re: Agassi: Nadal is the GOAT!

Post by Tenez on Mon May 12, 2014 9:05 pm

Yes and it's good to see Nishi and Chang discovering what unites them in the tennis tour very much dominated by the West.


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