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ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:01 pm

I suppose am just a bit picky...must admit it's weird having a match with so little adrenaline going...watching Nadal getting beaten tops this any day Run

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:08 pm

WHAT A SHOT¬!

Fed breaks back!

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:08 pm

Fed's footwark is fascinating to watch, it's immaculate.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:10 pm

FedererKing wrote:WHAT A SHOT¬!

Fed breaks back!

Yep, it's that BH that separates sheep from the GOAT  Cool 

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:12 pm

Ridiculous shot.


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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:12 pm

Nice to See Stan inside the court, except that he is there only when he absolutely has to be...same as Nadal.
But he has improved a lot since last year, his fitness fist, followed by movement and FH.
The fact he swatted Ferrer so effortlessly yesterday speaks volumes.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:41 pm

Federer bringing out his 100% tennis to the table now trying to break Stan.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:47 pm

Tie-break...anyone excited?

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:57 pm

Brilliant TB from Stan, did not give anything away unlike Fed who played a really safe and sloppy potential mini break point on Stan's 2nd serve at 1:2...
At last we have some drama...on paper.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:07 pm

Come on Fed.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:10 pm

That's looking like the end of it. Fed played a disastrous tie break and it looks like it's cost him.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:15 pm

Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:15 pm

0:4 down already?!!! Yikes

What happened?

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:15 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:18 pm

COME ON ROGEEEEEEEEEER!!!!! diva

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:21 pm

This isn't the same Fed as old anyway.  No way.  He loses intensity too much these days too.  That tiebreak was sloppy as hell. Not out yet though!

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:22 pm

Can't make up my mind whether Stan suddenly started serving like monster or has Fed's return gone down the pan.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:27 pm

Prince Albert's wife has turned from a pony-tailed babe into a short-haired middle-aged looking woman in just three years...now she lookes his age, when they got married - like his daughter.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:30 pm

And Stan has done it!
I did not see this one coming...so long as people don't start retiring him again  Winking 

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:45 pm

So...two weeks of smaller tournaments now before Rome, Madrid & RG roll on in full steam.
I reckon Nole will skip everything before RG. I hope he does. At least Madrid.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:47 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Can't make up my mind whether Stan suddenly started serving like monster or has Fed's return gone down the pan.

It could be both. I think Fed wasn't as intense against Stan as he would against anyone else. The kind of match he played against Haas at Halle 2012 final. Not saying he totally threw it off, but he didn't mind losing it either. Fed has got 21 TMS, he would have been okay to let Stan have his first.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:48 pm

Stan becomes the 100th person to make at least 1 Masters Final.  And the 60th to win at least 1 Masters event.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnKl04es5qkqdGQxVFNxdVNSQzRCQXJ6aU5lOTR1Z0E&usp=drive_web#gid=2


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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:48 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Prince Albert's wife has turned from a pony-tailed babe into a short-haired middle-aged looking woman in just three years...now she lookes his age, when they got married - like his daughter.
 ha ha..  Laugh  Laugh  Celebrity couples always look a bit alien.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by paulcz on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:53 pm

Great congratulations to Stan! That was the best tennis which I have seen for long time. When Stan got his grip, his groundstrokes devastated Fed hugely. There was one level difference in their backhands. How can Stan generate SHBH sweep of high balls from BH is astonishing.
Stan showed all fans that he definitely has a heart of great champions  Bubbly  Magic  Bubbly 

Rotla, it is your privilege to open Fan club page at OTF. I will surely join there.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:53 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by paulcz on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:57 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

The backhand made the difference in the final.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:58 pm

Fed's back hand has far more grace and is a better shot when you look at the angles he gets on it.  But these days it's become a weaker shot.  Stan's backhand is stronger, but that's it. Against Nadal, you need Stan's backhand tho.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:01 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Can't make up my mind whether Stan suddenly started serving like monster or has Fed's return gone down the pan.

It could be both. I think Fed wasn't as intense against Stan as he would against anyone else. The kind of match he played against Haas at Halle 2012 final. Not saying he totally threw it off, but he didn't mind losing it either. Fed has got 21 TMS, he would have been okay to let Stan have his first.

I think Fed is only intense against Nole, seems to hate his guts for some reason.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by paulcz on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:05 pm

FedererKing wrote:Fed's back hand has far more grace and is a better shot when you look at the angles he gets on it.  But these days it's become a weaker shot.  Stan's backhand is stronger, but that's it.  Against Nadal, you need Stan's backhand tho.

Agree, Fed's is more elegant, but Stan's body goes more through the ball on that side, his upper body is stronger.
Stan has definitely SHBH to face Nadal's moonballs, which is amazing.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:10 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

I may think again when Stan wins 17 slams....incl 7 Wimbledons.

Nooo....Fed's BH is simply majestic, best shot in the history of tennis.

I haven't seen the first 4 games of the 3rd set so don't know what happened there, I assume Fed lost a bit of spring in the step after losing the TB which he must have thought was going to be his.
When the momentum goes out of an attacker's game, you see results like that.
Conversely, TB win boosted Stan's confidence and he capitalised on the swing of the balance. Fed tried to get back into the match but just could not regain the 1st set state of mind.

He'll be really disappointed with the loss, full credit to Stan, he refused to go away.

Let's not forget Fed had to beat Nole in the 2nd SF yesterday and that took a lot out of him.
Stan had a much easier semi against a drained Ferrer who played a marathon match despatching Nadal.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by truffin1 on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:33 pm

I didn't see this coming after stans struggles at DC and reports that Federer looked dominant and Stan horrible during their practice sets earlier in the week. Fans there said fed had to really pep talk Stan, and Stan did give federer credit this week for his support. I think federer found out what many a boxer has over the years- the guys you mentor the most eventually end up taking you down.
Still it's hard for me to not be happy for Stan. This will give him huge confidence and a monkey off his back, which means another player with legit clay title chances, which was needed. The perfect scenario at the French for me would be Stan on nadals side and fed on djoko side. Perhaps a French final rematch of today!!

Finals wont be remembered in Federers career and it would have been nice for him to get one of the two masters he was missing. He's had two real shots this year to add to his masters legacy and you never know how many more chance he he would get. It's been a great season for him so far, but a few points in tiebreaks from being a magical season with a real shot of back to #1. So a shame this one slipped away.


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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:27 pm

paulcz wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

The backhand made  the difference in the final.
I disagree...in particular considering that Federer was 3 points away from a 2 sets win. I only saw the second set but already then Fed's form was poor. He was rushing to the net cause he did not feel great. He seemed to know he had to finish the points and match quickly cause he had not much in the tank. He said he surprised himself being in the final and from the set I saw I understood why. His level today was poor...though he showed again great skills at the net. His baseline game was nowhere near where he usually can be. This was another "sydney final". Fed did not turn up.

I am happy for Stan to back up a slam with a TMS but that it does not say much about how they face up. 4/0 in the 3rd I read....not good, is it?

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by truffin1 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:56 am

Stan said in his presser that he could see Fed visibly tire towards the end of 2nd set- said they had lunch and warmed up together before the match and knew fed was worn down. A tactical advantage that someone so close wouldn't normally have.

Fed in his presser seemed genuinely happy for Stan. Said he deserves the win and it's another piece to the puzzle of having full confidence . Fed said he was pleased and surprised by this week. - but 5 days of tennis after the recent crammed schedule had left him feeling "weird" and he needed to go home and sleep and recupriate.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:56 am

noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Can't make up my mind whether Stan suddenly started serving like monster or has Fed's return gone down the pan.

It could be both. I think Fed wasn't as intense against Stan as he would against anyone else. The kind of match he played against Haas at Halle 2012 final. Not saying he totally threw it off, but he didn't mind losing it either. Fed has got 21 TMS, he would have been okay to let Stan have his first.

I think Fed is only intense against Nole, seems to hate his guts for some reason.

I don't know why you feel this way, but I don't think Fed being any more intense facing Novak in particular than any others. Fed doesn't regard Djokovic as his main rival really, he has always thought his biggest Rival has been and will be Nadal. Because Nadal is the ultimate test for him. So why would he be any less intense against Nadal. 

He show less intensity now facing guys of his generation: Haas, Youzhny, Karlovic too. He was quite easy even with losing against Hewiit whom I don't think he likes particularly.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:00 am

truffin1 wrote:Stan said in his presser that he could see Fed visibly tire towards the end of 2nd set-  said they had lunch and warmed up together before the match and knew fed was worn down.  A tactical advantage that someone so close wouldn't normally have.

Fed in his presser seemed genuinely happy for Stan. Said he deserves the win and it's another piece to the puzzle of having full confidence .    Fed said he was pleased and surprised by this week. - but 5 days of tennis after the recent crammed schedule had left him feeling "weird" and he needed to go home and sleep and recupriate.

I don't think Fed tried 100% to win yesterday. It was something like he did against Haas in Halle 2012 final. Last year he was almost apologetic towards Youzhny after beating him is a close final at Halle.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by paulcz on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:19 am

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

The backhand made  the difference in the final.
I disagree...in particular considering that Federer was 3 points away from a 2 sets win.

Ten, everybody had to see it, please look at the link to understand what a difference their BHs was and how that effected game on the court, quite nicely written and described:

Brain Game: Stan's Bruising Backhand Stops Federer

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2014/04/17/Monte-Carlo-Brain-Game-Wawrinka-Federer.aspx

Wawrinka defeated Roger Federer 4-6, 7-6 (5), 6-2 in the final of the Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters and his backhand once again stood tall as the best shot on the court.

Wawrinka had eight backhand winners and seven forehand winners for the match while Federer had six forehand and four backhand winners from the back of the court. Wawrinka’s backhand wreaks havoc in multiple ways and essentially means he only has to cover half the court (the Ad court), which reduces his running and shrinks the court to his advantage.


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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:10 am

paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

The backhand made  the difference in the final.
I disagree...in particular considering that Federer was 3 points away from a 2 sets win.

Ten, everybody had to see it, please look at the link to understand what a difference their BHs was and how that effected game on the court, quite nicely written and described:

Brain Game: Stan's Bruising Backhand Stops Federer

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2014/04/17/Monte-Carlo-Brain-Game-Wawrinka-Federer.aspx

Wawrinka defeated Roger Federer 4-6, 7-6 (5), 6-2 in the final of the Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters and his backhand once again stood tall as the best shot on the court.

Wawrinka had eight backhand winners and seven forehand winners for the match while Federer had six forehand and four backhand winners from the back of the court. Wawrinka’s backhand wreaks havoc in multiple ways and essentially means he only has to cover half the court (the Ad court), which reduces his running and shrinks the court to his advantage.


I know both BHs very well.....I don't need to see them again.

Stan's : More powerful. More compact, Less consistent

Federer's: Takes the ball earlier to compensate for less power.
Much more control
Will bring the ball back much more than Stan thanks to much better hands.
More variety

It's simple, Nadal, and Djoko (amongst others) are constantly attacking the SHBHer BH. If Stan's BH was better he would have a better (or comparable) record than Fed against those 2...but it is not close, is it.

So yes, Stan's BH is more powerful and seems more consistent...but it is not.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:17 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Can't make up my mind whether Stan suddenly started serving like monster or has Fed's return gone down the pan.

It could be both. I think Fed wasn't as intense against Stan as he would against anyone else. The kind of match he played against Haas at Halle 2012 final. Not saying he totally threw it off, but he didn't mind losing it either. Fed has got 21 TMS, he would have been okay to let Stan have his first.

I think Fed is only intense against Nole, seems to hate his guts for some reason.

I don't know why you feel this way, but I don't think Fed being any more intense facing Novak in particular than any others. Fed doesn't regard Djokovic as his main rival really, he has always thought his biggest Rival has been and will be Nadal. Because Nadal is the ultimate test for him. So why would he be any less intense against Nadal. 

He show less intensity now facing guys of his generation: Haas, Youzhny, Karlovic too. He was quite easy even with losing against Hewiit whom I don't think he likes particularly.

Their animosity has been well documented from day one, started by Fed and the Davis Cup match all the way back in 2005/6 in which Nole retired.
Fed criticised him publicly in quite a condescending way, and the rest is history....(Be Quiet!, The King is Dead!, the AO 2009 incident etc etc).
Whether Fed was right or wrong in what he said is one thing, but the manner in which he expressed it was another.
Had Nole been on team Nike, we would have never heard a word of it...does it not surprise you how Fed never said a bad word about Nadal all these years?

As for tennis challenge, Nole is a better player than Nadal, and tennis-wise bigger challenge for Fed than Nadal.
Nadal's challenge came from his physicality, not skill. Not to mention all the media hype and money that went into creating that fake rivalry...Wimbledon 2008 best match ever!? My foot it's the best match...
Nole provides a a perfect aggressive counter-punching athletic challenge for Fed. He does not submit him with his bicep brutally like Nadal.

That is why I never liked Fedal matches , but do enjoy Nole-Fed ones. The first set they played in Monte Carlo was very high level.

Over the years, as Nole started beating Fed more regularly and become number one, their relationship improved, esp as Nole cut his retirements and MTOs out, but between the two, there is no love lost.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:26 am

I don't think Fed was keen to let Stan win this one. He fought pretty hard until he could (for 2 sets)..but after he simply played like it was a warm up. It's so obvious on the clip I saw. Fed played much more than any of the top player this year and he simply was tired. Nothing else to say really.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:33 am

I agree, he tried to get back into the match but really was running on fumes.
Stan was a lot fresher and could have lasted another set in full power.
You could easily see that in a few of their FH exchanges.

Shame he didn't win, as it was a good opportunity. But no big deal he didn't either.
He played some great clay tennis against Nole on Saturday and that to him will give confidence, not that he couldn't physically slog it out against Stan.
If his age comes into play at this stage of his career it will show in Masters series tournaments with 5 matches in a row.
Ferrer couldn't physically recover for Stan after Nadal, and neither did Fed after Nole.
All part of the game. Just needs to be put in perspective.
I am happy for Stan's win, good to have him lift trophies as opposed to Nadal!

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:37 am

Yep I said that Fed always had problems with 5 matches in a row...and now more than ever. The sad news is that Slams are best of 5! So even if he has a day in between...it's still hard work for him.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:40 am

I think slams are easier for him, despite best of 5, esp in Wimbledon.
If things got a little faster, than even other slams, too.

Not holding my breath there unfortunately, but would be great to see RG use the 2011 balls and USO speeding up the surface a bit, too. Or balls, just something lower bouncing will do!

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by ... on Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:39 pm

One last look at Nole-Fed match






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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by truffin1 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:47 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

The backhand made  the difference in the final.
I disagree...in particular considering that Federer was 3 points away from a 2 sets win.

Ten, everybody had to see it, please look at the link to understand what a difference their BHs was and how that effected game on the court, quite nicely written and described:

Brain Game: Stan's Bruising Backhand Stops Federer

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2014/04/17/Monte-Carlo-Brain-Game-Wawrinka-Federer.aspx

Wawrinka defeated Roger Federer 4-6, 7-6 (5), 6-2 in the final of the Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters and his backhand once again stood tall as the best shot on the court.

Wawrinka had eight backhand winners and seven forehand winners for the match while Federer had six forehand and four backhand winners from the back of the court. Wawrinka’s backhand wreaks havoc in multiple ways and essentially means he only has to cover half the court (the Ad court), which reduces his running and shrinks the court to his advantage.


I know both BHs very well.....I don't need to see them again.

Stan's : More powerful. More compact, Less consistent

Federer's: Takes the  ball earlier to compensate for less power.
             Much more control
             Will bring the ball back much more than Stan thanks to much better hands.
             More variety

It's simple, Nadal, and Djoko (amongst others) are constantly attacking the SHBHer BH. If Stan's BH was better he would have a better (or comparable) record than Fed against those 2...but it is not close, is it.

So yes, Stan's BH is more powerful and seems more consistent...but it is not.
             


Also missing in all this is the context of conditions..    Put Federer on grass vs Stan backhand to backhand and Fed will dominate with his variety and ability to take it early.   Really any faster surface, Fed can cause Stan all type of problems by rushing him. 
It's part of the match, but it's not a coincidence that as conditions slowed yesterday during the match, esp after the rain delay and became heavy- that STan began to do his damage.      The conditions + fatigue was always going to be  tall order for Federer to overcome especially as Stan began to play to a top level.   Just like Fed elevated towards the end of the 1st set against Djokovic an Djokovic couldn't match him and when he tried to- aggravated the wrist-    I think Federer tried to but just couldn't elevate once Stan did.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:04 pm

nitb wrote:Had Nole been on team Nike, we would have never heard a word of it...does it not surprise you how Fed never said a bad word about Nadal all these years?

Fed hasn't said anything too bad about Djokovic either, its just turned out that way. But I agree Players feel sponsorship pressures in their public opinions. 


nitb wrote:As for tennis challenge, Nole is a better player than Nadal, and tennis-wise bigger challenge for Fed than Nadal.



Now so Stan's BH isn't as good as Fed's because Fed's with his BH has 17 slams and Stan only 1. And there is totally different yardstick to measure who is a better player when comparing Nadal with Djokovic? Let Djokovic get 13 slams and 26 masters, then we'll think about if at all Djokovic is better.


Do you really think Fed himself shares the same view i.e. Djokovic is a bigger challenge for him than Nadal? I don't think so. When there was none who could even touch Fed, Nadal was able to beat him consistently. Remember the quotes " Clay is not my problem. My problem is Nadal". Did anything similar from Fed came out ever came out about Djokovic?



nitb wrote:Nadal's challenge came from his physicality, not skill.

So did Djokovic's and he acknowledges it too. I don't know why you being such a good poster, don't find it comfortable to accept it too. 

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:19 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

The backhand made  the difference in the final.
I disagree...in particular considering that Federer was 3 points away from a 2 sets win.

Ten, everybody had to see it, please look at the link to understand what a difference their BHs was and how that effected game on the court, quite nicely written and described:

Brain Game: Stan's Bruising Backhand Stops Federer

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2014/04/17/Monte-Carlo-Brain-Game-Wawrinka-Federer.aspx

Wawrinka defeated Roger Federer 4-6, 7-6 (5), 6-2 in the final of the Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters and his backhand once again stood tall as the best shot on the court.

Wawrinka had eight backhand winners and seven forehand winners for the match while Federer had six forehand and four backhand winners from the back of the court. Wawrinka’s backhand wreaks havoc in multiple ways and essentially means he only has to cover half the court (the Ad court), which reduces his running and shrinks the court to his advantage.


I know both BHs very well.....I don't need to see them again.

Stan's : More powerful. More compact, Less consistent

Federer's: Takes the  ball earlier to compensate for less power.
             Much more control
             Will bring the ball back much more than Stan thanks to much better hands.
             More variety

It's simple, Nadal, and Djoko (amongst others) are constantly attacking the SHBHer BH. If Stan's BH was better he would have a better (or comparable) record than Fed against those 2...but it is not close, is it.

So yes, Stan's BH is more powerful and seems more consistent...but it is not.
             


Also missing in all this is the context of conditions..    Put Federer on grass vs Stan backhand to backhand and Fed will dominate with his variety and ability to take it early.   Really any faster surface, Fed can cause Stan all type of problems by rushing him. 
It's part of the match, but it's not a coincidence that as conditions slowed yesterday during the match, esp after the rain delay and became heavy- that STan began to do his damage.      The conditions + fatigue was always going to be  tall order for Federer to overcome especially as Stan began to play to a top level.   Just like Fed elevated towards the end of the 1st set against Djokovic an Djokovic couldn't match him and when he tried to- aggravated the wrist-    I think Federer tried to but just couldn't elevate once Stan did.

So Fed's BH on a faster grass vs Stan Stan BH on slow clay means Fed's BH is better? Strange. So is clay an invalid surface to measure who's got the better BH? If Fed's BH needs faster low bouncing conditions to show its might, then it too needs circumstantial help just like Stan's BH does. So how does Fed scores over Stan in BH dept? Just because of fast Grass?

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by truffin1 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:02 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

The backhand made  the difference in the final.
I disagree...in particular considering that Federer was 3 points away from a 2 sets win.

Ten, everybody had to see it, please look at the link to understand what a difference their BHs was and how that effected game on the court, quite nicely written and described:

Brain Game: Stan's Bruising Backhand Stops Federer

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2014/04/17/Monte-Carlo-Brain-Game-Wawrinka-Federer.aspx

Wawrinka defeated Roger Federer 4-6, 7-6 (5), 6-2 in the final of the Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters and his backhand once again stood tall as the best shot on the court.

Wawrinka had eight backhand winners and seven forehand winners for the match while Federer had six forehand and four backhand winners from the back of the court. Wawrinka’s backhand wreaks havoc in multiple ways and essentially means he only has to cover half the court (the Ad court), which reduces his running and shrinks the court to his advantage.


I know both BHs very well.....I don't need to see them again.

Stan's : More powerful. More compact, Less consistent

Federer's: Takes the  ball earlier to compensate for less power.
             Much more control
             Will bring the ball back much more than Stan thanks to much better hands.
             More variety

It's simple, Nadal, and Djoko (amongst others) are constantly attacking the SHBHer BH. If Stan's BH was better he would have a better (or comparable) record than Fed against those 2...but it is not close, is it.

So yes, Stan's BH is more powerful and seems more consistent...but it is not.
             


Also missing in all this is the context of conditions..    Put Federer on grass vs Stan backhand to backhand and Fed will dominate with his variety and ability to take it early.   Really any faster surface, Fed can cause Stan all type of problems by rushing him. 
It's part of the match, but it's not a coincidence that as conditions slowed yesterday during the match, esp after the rain delay and became heavy- that STan began to do his damage.      The conditions + fatigue was always going to be  tall order for Federer to overcome especially as Stan began to play to a top level.   Just like Fed elevated towards the end of the 1st set against Djokovic an Djokovic couldn't match him and when he tried to- aggravated the wrist-    I think Federer tried to but just couldn't elevate once Stan did.

So Fed's BH on a faster grass vs Stan Stan BH on slow clay means Fed's BH is better? Strange. So is clay an invalid surface to measure who's got the better BH? If Fed's BH needs faster low bouncing conditions to show its might, then it too needs circumstantial help just like Stan's BH does. So how does Fed scores over Stan in BH dept? Just because of fast Grass?


You're not paying attention-   I gave one example with the grass..    Yes, Fed needs certain conditions for his backhand to show it's  FULL might, but so does Stan. Yesterday STan got those conditions so if you watched this one match- Stan's backhand looked better.  I've seen every Stan v/s Fed match for at least past 5 years, and it's very rare that Stan's backhand is the better shot.   My greater point- which is really easy to understand is even under the slow conditions most of the tour is played under-  Federer is going to have a better more varied backhand than Stan.   Grass, hardcourt, indoor- Federer has more variety, more action on it, is able to take it earlier--   that's where he scores over Stan in the BH.  As so/so as Fed's returns can be- he also has a much better ability to hit over the top of his backhand with consistency than Stan does. We could see that yesterday-  tennis channel at one point put up a stat that Stan was over 85% slicing the return with the backhand  and while Federer was around 60% top spin... and Federer is usualy the chip king on returns.   Stan definitely has a weakness on return with the backhand.  He doesn't like to be rushed, and going back to my point-  most of the time Federer can rush him.    Stan has a beautiful powerful backhand.. I love his shot and he can do things with it that Federer can't.... BUT-   Federer can also do and does more things that Stan can't than vice/versa... i.e. overall Fed's backhand is better.

It's just an opinion though............ :-)

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by truffin1 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:02 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Stan is playing tennis from another planet. Anyone still thinks his BH is any less than Fed's?

I do.
Ohh you need to think again. Stan BH is much more solid and less susceptible to breaking down against constant hitting. It can deal with much ease those high rising balls. It can hit the DTL shot with much more power and safer.

Fed has better slice, but since he doesn't use his left hand, it lacks power.

The backhand made  the difference in the final.
I disagree...in particular considering that Federer was 3 points away from a 2 sets win.

Ten, everybody had to see it, please look at the link to understand what a difference their BHs was and how that effected game on the court, quite nicely written and described:

Brain Game: Stan's Bruising Backhand Stops Federer

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2014/04/17/Monte-Carlo-Brain-Game-Wawrinka-Federer.aspx

Wawrinka defeated Roger Federer 4-6, 7-6 (5), 6-2 in the final of the Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters and his backhand once again stood tall as the best shot on the court.

Wawrinka had eight backhand winners and seven forehand winners for the match while Federer had six forehand and four backhand winners from the back of the court. Wawrinka’s backhand wreaks havoc in multiple ways and essentially means he only has to cover half the court (the Ad court), which reduces his running and shrinks the court to his advantage.


I know both BHs very well.....I don't need to see them again.

Stan's : More powerful. More compact, Less consistent

Federer's: Takes the  ball earlier to compensate for less power.
             Much more control
             Will bring the ball back much more than Stan thanks to much better hands.
             More variety

It's simple, Nadal, and Djoko (amongst others) are constantly attacking the SHBHer BH. If Stan's BH was better he would have a better (or comparable) record than Fed against those 2...but it is not close, is it.

So yes, Stan's BH is more powerful and seems more consistent...but it is not.
             


Also missing in all this is the context of conditions..    Put Federer on grass vs Stan backhand to backhand and Fed will dominate with his variety and ability to take it early.   Really any faster surface, Fed can cause Stan all type of problems by rushing him. 
It's part of the match, but it's not a coincidence that as conditions slowed yesterday during the match, esp after the rain delay and became heavy- that STan began to do his damage.      The conditions + fatigue was always going to be  tall order for Federer to overcome especially as Stan began to play to a top level.   Just like Fed elevated towards the end of the 1st set against Djokovic an Djokovic couldn't match him and when he tried to- aggravated the wrist-    I think Federer tried to but just couldn't elevate once Stan did.

So Fed's BH on a faster grass vs Stan Stan BH on slow clay means Fed's BH is better? Strange. So is clay an invalid surface to measure who's got the better BH? If Fed's BH needs faster low bouncing conditions to show its might, then it too needs circumstantial help just like Stan's BH does. So how does Fed scores over Stan in BH dept? Just because of fast Grass?


You're not paying attention-   I gave one example with the grass..    Yes, Fed needs certain conditions for his backhand to show it's  FULL might, but so does Stan. Yesterday STan got those conditions so if you watched this one match- Stan's backhand looked better.  I've seen every Stan v/s Fed match for at least past 5 years, and it's very rare that Stan's backhand is the better shot.   My greater point- which is really easy to understand is even under the slow conditions most of the tour is played under-  Federer is going to have a better more varied backhand than Stan.   Grass, hardcourt, indoor- Federer has more variety, more action on it, is able to take it earlier--   that's where he scores over Stan in the BH.  As so/so as Fed's returns can be- he also has a much better ability to hit over the top of his backhand with consistency than Stan does. We could see that yesterday-  tennis channel at one point put up a stat that Stan was over 85% slicing the return with the backhand  and while Federer was around 60% top spin... and Federer is usualy the chip king on returns.   Stan definitely has a weakness on return with the backhand.  He doesn't like to be rushed, and going back to my point-  most of the time Federer can rush him.    Stan has a beautiful powerful backhand.. I love his shot and he can do things with it that Federer can't.... BUT-   Federer can also do and does more things that Stan can't than vice/versa... i.e. overall Fed's backhand is better.

It's just an opinion though............ :-)

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by truffin1 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:13 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
truffin1 wrote:Stan said in his presser that he could see Fed visibly tire towards the end of 2nd set-  said they had lunch and warmed up together before the match and knew fed was worn down.  A tactical advantage that someone so close wouldn't normally have.

Fed in his presser seemed genuinely happy for Stan. Said he deserves the win and it's another piece to the puzzle of having full confidence .    Fed said he was pleased and surprised by this week. - but 5 days of tennis after the recent crammed schedule had left him feeling "weird" and he needed to go home and sleep and recupriate.

I don't think Fed tried 100% to win yesterday. It was something like he did against Haas in Halle 2012 final. Last year he was almost apologetic towards Youzhny after beating him is a close final at Halle.


I just saw the stat that Federer has played the more matches this year to this point than he has in any other year since 2005.   This is going to catch up to him at some point. With a full DC added in-  towards the end of the year, he's going to have a bunch of matches in the legs.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by laverfan on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:57 pm

truffin1 wrote:Stan said in his presser that he could see Fed visibly tire towards the end of 2nd set-  said they had lunch and warmed up together before the match and knew fed was worn down.  A tactical advantage that someone so close wouldn't normally have.

Anyone recall Wawrinka v Murray at W 2009 (or USO 2010), and Wawrinka was Murray's practice partner for some time during the Grass season in 2009.

truffin1 wrote:Fed in his presser seemed genuinely happy for Stan. Said he deserves the win and it's another piece to the puzzle of having full confidence .    Fed said he was pleased and surprised by this week. - but 5 days of tennis after the recent crammed schedule had left him feeling "weird" and he needed to go home and sleep and recupriate.

Federer may need to skip either Madrid and/or Rome to make inroads into RG.

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Re: ATP MASTERS 1000: Monte Carlo

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