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Indian Wells Thread

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:24 am

Penny for Larry's thoughts... Whistle

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:25 am

The magic of 2014 continues! Bubbly

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Post by summerblues Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:30 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:If you want to see him lose why on earth are people staying up to watch him slay Dolgo?
Oh my; now you are jinxing the wrong way.  I would have thought you learned your lesson at the AO.

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Post by truffin1 Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:32 am

summerblues wrote:
truffin1 wrote:I think it's Stan's tourney to lose now and Fed has a chance to turn it on.
I would not go that far.  Stan has not had a history of winning a tournament after tournament.  He can do it, but I would put 3-4 players ahead of him as the favorites.

He's playing really well though, and I think we can all agree that a major win can be a transformative think. This isn't the Stan of the past. A full flight Federer is still going to beat him most o the time, but we haven't seen that from Fed yet.

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Post by summerblues Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:44 am

I actually hope you are right.  I like Stan's game and would like to see him notching some more nice wins.  But I will believe it when I see it.  As it is, I would have Fed - even slightly off-form Fed - as a favorite against him.  I would also have Andy and Nole ahead of him as tournament favorites - if for no other reason then on the strength of their consistency.

But I do hope that I am wrong and you are right.

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Post by summerblues Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:47 am

With Nadal's loss, his #1 ranking does not look as unreachable anymore.  If Nole plays well here, in Miami and on clay, he might have an outside chance to catch Rafa at Roland Garros.

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:47 am

Dolgo played a great match, deserved to win.

Nadal looked short of confidence at times, hopefully he can improve for Miami.

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:39 am

summerblues wrote:
truffin1 wrote:I think it's Stan's tourney to lose now and Fed has a chance to turn it on.
I would not go that far.  Stan has not had a history of winning a tournament after tournament.  He can do it, but I would put 3-4 players ahead of him as the favorites.

Agree. Well at least 2 now. Federerer and Djoko.

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:16 am

I managed to glance the first 2 sets with one eye with my laptop at the bottom of my bed.

To be fair, Dolgo did not play that great. He was making so many UEs. I am pretty sure that like most other players if they were getting enough exposure v Rafa many would beat him. Nadal's main difficulty is to be able to time that zippy ball correctly and this is why they all do crazy # of UEs and the probblem is they all deal with a very different ball the rest of the time.

Here Dolgo managed to make a slow court play fast by going for broe every now and then....and again Nadal loses...only just...managed to scrap through a 3rd set TB when things got tough.

So looks like Larry will have to add even more sand in the paint next year...or maybe he will just leave the sand as is, no paint.

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:50 am

Tenez wrote:I managed to glance the first 2 sets with one eye with my laptop at the bottom of my bed.

I knew you did!

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Post by Daniel Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:55 am

As I said last year, the nightmare for Nadal fans has begun. All those lovely points are coming off. And he won't defend the French Open either.

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:00 am

Dolgo did really wll last night. It was not easy for him to play smoothly on this slow court so he did the only way he could which Nadal made slow down even further.
Dolgo's strength was his variety if balls: flat, spin, slice, moonballs - he threw it all in!
I felt for him when he choked serving for he set, so glad he pulled trough in the end.

I had the impression the crowd enjoyed Dolgo's tennis, although I watched the match with sound off as I didn't want to listen to biased commentating.

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:16 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:I managed to glance the first 2 sets with one eye with my laptop at the bottom of my bed.

I knew you did!
Yep.... could find sleep knowing a good match was on....well what I saw was very up and down. It's the result that I am impressed with more than the way it was done.

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:18 am

noleisthebest wrote:Dolgo did really wll last night. It was not easy for him to play smoothly on this slow court so he did the only way he could which Nadal made slow down even further.
Dolgo's strength was his variety if balls: flat, spin, slice, moonballs - he threw it all in!
I felt for him when he choked serving for he set, so glad he pulled trough in the end.

I had the impression the crowd enjoyed Dolgo's tennis, although I watched the match with sound off as I didn't want to listen to biased commentating.
Those key moments are so important in a player's career. The player can shake them off with a win....or it can stuck with you the whole career.

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:21 am

Good for Ukraine too as they are going through a tough time. I wish it could stay as one piece.

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:59 am

Tenez wrote:Good for Ukraine too as they are going through a tough time. I wish it could stay as one piece.

Yes, they are going through very hard times, I lived through the same.
Dolgo wore a ribbon pinned on his chest in Acapoulco, and I'm sure this win will have brightened up darkness in Ukraine for many helpless people who can do nothing about the turmoil they were thrown in.


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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:04 am

Tenez wrote:
Yep.... could find sleep knowing a good match was on....well what I saw was very up and down. It's the result that I am impressed with more than the way it was done.

Nice to know.
As for the result, a win is a win!

I thought it was interesting how he did it with what he had, those light feet helped so much. At times, I seriously thought they were playing on clay, amazing what can pass as "hard court" these days...

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:11 am

Important to note that Nadal's admission about the fact that both Step and Dolgo were not giving him any rhythm.

It means he was rushed all the time...on one of the slowest court!!!!. When you think he is a twice Wimby winner. It says a lot about Wimby nowadays. It also means he relies on having more time himself to be able to pull the ball back on court, extending the rallies and making his matches marathons. That is his only hope.

He is the best player ever on slow courts.

He is the worst "goat" player ever on medium to faster surfaces. In 1990 he would have been another Bruguerra...probably worse as with natural gut, his spin and power would be close to useless.

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Post by Daniel Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:24 am

“I played bad,” Nadal said. “That’s all. I’m disappointed with the way I played. But that happens sometimes.”

“I never found a good feeling when I was on court competing this year,” said Nadal, who needed three sets to beat No. 50 Radek Stepanek in his opening match. “I’m upset for that because I love this event. That’s fine. It’s impossible to be, every single week, in the last round of the tournament. I did for the first three tournaments of the year that I played. Today was an accident. I lost.”

Nadal giving respect to his opponent....

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:58 pm

FedererKing wrote:
“I played bad,” Nadal said. “That’s all. I’m disappointed with the way I played. But that happens sometimes.”

“I never found a good feeling when I was on court competing this year,” said Nadal, who needed three sets to beat No. 50 Radek Stepanek in his opening match. “I’m upset for that because I love this event. That’s fine. It’s impossible to be, every single week, in the last round of the tournament. I did for the first three tournaments of the year that I played. Today was an accident. I lost.”

Nadal giving respect to his opponent....

You think that is disrespectful? You want me to get the quotes from every match Federer has lost?
I mean firstly Nadal is right, he clearly played poorly; and secondly criticising him for saying this is so hypocritical beyond belief when Federer says something similar if not worse every time he loses.

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Post by truffin1 Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:08 pm

Poor words from rafa, but watching most of the last two matches- much of which he was struggling and losing- I was pleasantly surprised to not see the usual gamesmanship tactics, the time wasting, tricks to throw the opponent off, and coaching from the stands. Other than a bathroom break by nadal to start the 3 rd set which is perfectly reaonable, I didn't see any of his normal tricks. No coaching warnings or time wasting warnings from the umpire like we saw at at the AO. Afrer the 1st match, I was teasing amri that Toni wasn't there to give nadal his usual coaching on where to adjust, but now I am actually wondering if Toni's presence is really the driving force and catalyst to nadal worst behavior. Toni is an admitted cheat who has stated the he doesn't go along with rules he doesn't agree with- coaching g being one, Toni is from the Spanish ruling class mentality and cultural belief over many centuries has been explained to me that they applaud and encourage "gain through deception". Pretty much he hallmark of nadals career. Seeing nadal behave without Toni there- I seriously wonder if nadal is simply programmed to behave from Toni's direction, and if Toni is not around, nadal reverts back to at least a decent behavior. Two matches is too soon to tell, but I would be much less critical of nadals on court behaviour if this is what we see going forward.

Of course the flip side is it is plain to see how limited nadal is as a player left to his own devices... But that's a post for another day.

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:23 pm

truffin1 wrote:Poor words from rafa,
See this is the typical BNP logic I was talking about. Nadal also congratulated Dolgo on a great match, but no one has quoted that. As to him saying he did not play well- that is simply true, and why would we want him to be dishonest?
And if saying a player saying they played badly after a match is 'poor words'- do you want me to bring up examples of Federer saying the same. Federer is always honest and upfront when he hasn't played well, and he says it pretty directly. So hypocritical to criticise Nadal for doing something, but not Federer even though he says it everytime.

By the way, I just did a quick search for Federer after the Robredo loss:
Federer wrote:"I kind of feel like I beat myself... It was up to me to make the difference and I couldn’t. I kind of self‑destructed, which is very disappointing, especially on a quicker court.”

truffin1 wrote:Of course the flip side is it is plain to see how limited nadal is as a player left to his own devices... But that's a post for another day.
Oh dear me... this is a Nadal hater's fantasy.
Nadal's best match came last year when Toni wasn't present, and you have no statistical evidence to suggest any percentage difference for Nadal W/L... with or without Toni.

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Post by truffin1 Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:32 pm

Once again, what does federer have to do with what nadal does or does not say? Your like a child -"I hit him, but it's okay because he hit someone else" I did not mention federer and his behaviour has nothing to do with whether nadals behaviour is right or wrong.

Besides, I hardly criticiEd nadals words- they are meaningless and you are correct- typical loss speak- I actually gave nadal credit for his rare display this week of proper on court behavior, but all you see is a chance to start the stupid fed v nadal crap.

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:33 pm

Funny... when Federer said 'I kind of feel like I beat myself' or 'I kind of self destructred'... no one on this forum says these are 'poor' words from Federer.
The biased BNP-type logic is exposing itself here.

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:35 pm

truffin1 wrote:Once again, what does federer have to do with what nadal does or does not say?
I am exposing the double standards and hypocricy... if you criticise Nadal for saying something, but not for Federer saying something worse... that is not logically consistent.
It is not a case of 'Fed vs Nadal'- I think both in these respective situations were pretty honest in their interviews... which is fine by me... I'm not the one being hypocritical.

I didn't see any of his normal tricks. No coaching warnings or time wasting warnings from the umpire like we saw at at the AO.
Back to BNP mentality this.
If it's 'normal tricks'- why weren't you ever able to bring up 2% of matches where Nadal did this.
You struggled to get even 1% of Nadal matches if I remember correctly... but the mentality comes in, you turn rare occurences into 'normal tricks'.

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:03 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Of course the flip side is it is plain to see how limited nadal is as a player left to his own devices... But that's a post for another day.
Yes coaching, like time taking between points were key to Nadal's success.

The thing is when a champ is number 1 it's very difficult to criticise....but once they start to lose many start to tell the other side of the story. In fact it was Nadal's being out of courts for months which motivated the rest to re-apply the time rule correctly. I feel that when Nadal drops his ranking he might get in trouble.

Having said all that I do not think Nadal's comments are very disrespectful here. I think it's good to read what they believe. It's then our "job" to interpret. I personally think he might not have played his best....but frankly, he had the best conditions for him and a nervous and also out of form Dolgo. A composed Dolgo would won that one in 2 easy sets...especially on a faster surface.

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:05 pm

Yeah, first the rare occurrence is wrongly called normal, and now 'key to success'...

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:12 pm

Nadal has received on court coaching all his career, especially in slams' important matches...don't you agree?

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:12 pm

Has he won a slam without Toni next?

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:16 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal has received on court coaching all his career, especially in slams' important matches...don't you agree?
No... no one has even found evidence for 1% of matches; but as usual the BNP mentality does not care for actual evidence.
If you can, provide it, 8 matches which is around 1%.

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:18 pm

Tenez wrote:Has he won a slam without Toni next?
No he hasn't actually!!! Stunning logic!

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:20 pm

That's not true. I have easily heard at least 8 players complaining about it and most pf them say he always does. Not having the press or referees not reporting to it is a completely different matter!

Soon you will say that each time Nadal got over the 25s he got a warning and since he got about 10 warnings in his life he only went over 10 times.

Amri, at one point you will have to accept the evidence if you do not wish to lose too much credibility.

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Post by Tenez Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:21 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:
Tenez wrote:Has he won a slam without Toni next?
No he hasn't actually!!! Stunning logic!

There you go....did he actually play slams without Toni next?

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:22 pm

I'm asking for some evidence... how dare I.
Go on then, provide quotes from players.
So far I have seen quotes from Wawrinka... So 7 left till 1%


Last edited by Julia Santamaria on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:23 pm

Tenez wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:
Tenez wrote:Has he won a slam without Toni next?
No he hasn't actually!!! Stunning logic!

There you go....did he actually play slams without Toni next?
No!!!
Wow if I didn't know better I would think Toni is his long term tennis coach, why else does he turn up to Nadals tennis matches, omg!!!

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:25 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:I'm asking for some evidence... how dare I.
Go on then, provide quotes from players.
So far I have seen quotes from Wawrinka... So 7 left till 1%

There is a bit more here, Tursunov's one was great:

https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t580-rafa-nadal-anti-fan-club

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:27 pm

I'm talking about the influence of Toni, Tursanov was talking about time between points IIRC.

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:36 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:I'm talking about the influence of Toni, Tursanov was talking about time between points IIRC.

No problem:


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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:37 pm

I can't see it, if that's a video it won't work on my iPad.

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:39 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:I can't see it, if that's a video it won't work on my iPad.

It's working fine on mine. Try the desktop when you get the chance.

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:55 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:Funny... when Federer said 'I kind of feel like I beat myself' or 'I kind of self destructred'... no one on this forum says these are 'poor' words from Federer.
The biased BNP-type logic is exposing itself here.

I don't mind honesty in press conferences at all, there's nothing worse than hearing the same cliches all the time.
You can learn so much about the players from them.

If Nadal thought he played poorly and thought that's the reason he lost (whether that's true or not is irrelevant) and says it, it's fine.
It can often be defensive mechanism, and sometimes you just don't have the clearest mind and right perspective straight after a match anyway.
But it's wrong to have that talk in trophy presentations like he did in AO.

I also remember that he said fairly recently stg like  "the best player always wins", I think that was his reply to Gulbis's comment how he plays better tennis than Nadal.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/05/nadal-reacts-gulbis-best-player-tries-find-solutions/47490/

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Post by truffin1 Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:21 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:
truffin1 wrote:Once again, what does federer have to do with what nadal does or does not say?
I am exposing the double standards and hypocricy... if you criticise Nadal for saying something, but not for Federer saying something worse... that is not logically consistent.
It is not a case of 'Fed vs Nadal'- I think both in these respective situations were pretty honest in their interviews... which is fine by me... I'm not the one being hypocritical.

I didn't see any of his normal tricks. No coaching warnings or time wasting warnings from the umpire like we saw at at the AO.
Back to BNP mentality this.
If it's 'normal tricks'- why weren't you ever able to bring up 2% of matches where Nadal did this.
You struggled to get even 1% of Nadal matches if I remember correctly... but the mentality comes in, you turn rare occurences into 'normal tricks'.

lol. . 1st of all I did not struggle to find 1% of Nadal being coached- as usual you do not remember correctly or slant things to your biased logic.  I spent all of 10 minutes and a quick google search to provide you links and examples of Nadal being coached.  You then on your own came up with some bizarre challenge that I find only official reports of every single match Nadal has played (you would not accept fan blogs, articles,etc and then count how many incidences that an umpire warns of Nadal coaching and if I reached 2% of all his matches you would be satisfied.   Obviously that is a stupid challenge as I would not have the time to find nor do they probably exist an official detailed report of every single match Nadal has played.   2nd.  we can all agree that Nadal has not been caught and given a warning every time or sometimes umpires chose not to give warnings as Stan, Federer and others have complained, so just because there is an absence of umpire warning- does not mean he wasn't coached.  3. I did not agree to your challenge but said I would find a few more examples if I had the time and then posted Toni Nadals interview where he admitted coaching (evidence enough) and a some other links..    You then went into a bizarre claim that Toni Nadals friend, respected Spanish journalist, and official documentary director of Toni's biography was a fake and made up the interview.. Once you became that irrational. I just gave up and didn't bother to provide any more links as you are clearly stuck in whatever you believe.  I don't need to spend hundreds of hours looking up recaps of Nadals matches to satisfy you.  Since then I have also provided a link to Nadal admitting to being coached in the US Open 2010 final... which I did not before.

As Tenez said- it's ludicrous for you to hang onto some belief that if Nadal has been caught 8 times or 10 times that is the sum total of the times he has done it...   That defies reasoning. Why would Toni admit that he ignores the rule and coaches if he's only done it 8 times out 1000 or whatever number matches Nadal has played? Ridiculous.

Toni admits it, Nadal admits it, respected players have exposed it, he has been fined and he has been warned numerous times.  There is no question to any reasonable unbiased person that Nadal is coached on court by Toni

IF your so hell bent on your challenge- then YOU list an official recap of every single Nadal match as you demanded.. You spend the time to provide a link to each one and it must be in detail describing all interactions with the umpire, and I will then go through each link and see how often he was was warned.  that seems fair. we can split up the task. Why should I or anyone be required to spend all that time to satisfy you without you doing any work, when all the evidence out there to anyone reasonable shows that Nadal is coached..    

Further- it just stands for reason that when Nadal is crushing an opponent which is a large percentage that Toni isn't bothering to coach him or isn't doing so so blatantly that Nadal is warned by an umpire. It stands for reason that Toni and Nadal have gotten good enough that they are not caught every time.  So it very well may be a 2%,3% amount of times... but that's not something to be proud of either when understood in the context of how rarely he is in danger or pushed.


Lastly- why is it hypocritical to say something about Nadal and not Federer?  Why Federer?   IF truly fair then we and you should be listing every single player that has ever lost and what they say? Yet- you fixate on what Federer has said.... that shows you are trying to make it about Nadal vs. Federer.    Why not say- you guys are hypocritical, look at what Ferrer said after a loss?  No, you go to Federer.   I threw out a nothing quick comment in my post saying poor words then later said that really- it wasn't so bad, just typical loss speak which ALL players do..  Nearly my entire post was about how well behaved Nadal was in his two matches and how it was refreshing to see him lose without his tricks...   and I theorized that maybe Toni not being there gave Nadal some freedom to behave better.   Those are hardly bad things to say, yet all you fixate on is a word or phrase here and there which suits your fanatical hypersensitivity to anything critical of Nadal.

Let me say it again- I thought Nadal behaved fine in his loss last night and I thought he behaved fine when struggling against Stepanek. 

You act like this every time Nadal loses and I understand it sets your world reeling, so I sympathize, but get over this  Nadal vs Federer stuff. It's boring.


oh- and that link Noleisbest provided is I believe the same link or the same interview that I linked for you and you did listen too where Djokovics father detailed how Toni was coaching Nadal in the French final (perfect example of NAdal being coached, but no official umpire warning for us to count)


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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:12 pm

Very interesting to hear what Dolgo has to say after last night's match:


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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:46 pm

truffin1 wrote:1st of all I did not struggle to find 1% of Nadal being coached- as usual you do not remember correctly or slant things to your biased logic.  I spent all of 10 minutes and a quick google search to provide you links and examples of Nadal being coached.
I remember asking for 2% of matches, and I didn't mind what form of media, whether they were from videos, news articles etc.
As far as I can remember you could not come up with 16, or even half of that.  

truffin1 wrote:I don't need to spend hundreds of hours looking up recaps of Nadals matches to satisfy you.
Yes but surely as you think it is normal behaviour from Nadal, finding some evidence for 1% of his matches isn't too difficult.

truffin wrote:I threw out a nothing quick comment in my post saying poor words then later said that really- it wasn't so bad, just typical loss speak which ALL players do..
Well in that case I do agree with you, but not with your initial comment or what FK was hinting.

truffin wrote:Lastly- why is it hypocritical to say something about Nadal and not Federer?  Why Federer?   IF truly fair then we and you should be listing every single player that has ever lost and what they say?

Well it is because the person who brought up the quote and how I initially replied to has the username 'FedererKing', implying he is a Federer fan. If he was a Ferrer fan, I would have brought up a quote from Ferrer, the fact is many players say they didn't play their best after a loss.

truffin wrote:that shows you are trying to make it about Nadal vs. Federer.
No, exactly the opposite; I am not saying it's Nadal vs Federer, but rather that Nadal and Federer and all other players are in the same boat here- saying you didn't play well after a match is not disrespectful.  

truffin wrote:Let me say it again- I thought Nadal behaved fine in his loss last night and I thought he behaved fine when struggling against Stepanek.
Well if it was a praise of Nadal, it was a barbed one at that, but let me make it clear: he normally behaves how he did this week.
This is normal Nadal. I watched Rio last week, it was the same. There are some rare occurrences where he or his team don't put himself in the best light- but honestly I don't see why you're so surprised he behaved the way he did. This is normal, that is my point.

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Post by truffin1 Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:04 pm

truffin1 wrote:1st of all I did not struggle to find 1% of Nadal being coached- as usual you do not remember correctly or slant things to your biased logic.  I spent all of 10 minutes and a quick google search to provide you links and examples of Nadal being coached.
I remember asking for 2% of matches, and I didn't mind what form of media, whether they were from videos, news articles etc.
As far as I can remember you could not come up with 16, or even half of that.  

truffin1 wrote:I don't need to spend hundreds of hours looking up recaps of Nadals matches to satisfy you.
Yes but surely as you think it is normal behaviour from Nadal, finding some evidence for 1% of his matches isn't too difficult.


You remember wrong- you specifically told me that you didn't believe all my links because they were't "official", and that's was all that  you would accept.  You also bizarrely claimed Toni's Spanish  interviewer was a fake person and account even though it was his official twitter and Toni's friend, so clearly at that point- I knew that nothing was going to meet you standards
 
and I "could not come up with 16" is wrong because I didn't try to come up with 16--   but I have given you more than 8 incidents where it is talked about that he has been coached whether it be from a match report, a player talking about it, an umpire warning, etc so that is false on your part.   I have no need to try and come up with any number that you somehow deem a magic number that means anything.   Multiple players stating it, my own eyes watching it, Toni admitting it, Nadal admitting it, an official fine from Wimbledon, multiple warnings from umpires including multiple times in 7 matches at the Ao this year is all anyone with a reasonable brain needs to know that he is coached - often.

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Post by truffin1 Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:18 pm

1.US Open 2010- Nadal admits it.
2.Indian Wells 2013- Nadal given umpire warning and a bizarre disproven fake excuse makes Nadal look silly.
3.WTF 2013 against STan-  where Stan talks about "We all know, players and umpires, that Toni is always trying to help Rafa" which certainly indicates that Stan believes it to be more than 8 times in a carreer.
4. Rome Final 2006 vs. Federer-   A rare case where Federer speaks out about Toni coaching Nadal:Federer said then, “He was coaching a little bit too much again today. I caught him in the act. I told him many times already, through the entire match in Monaco, but it seems like they don’t keep a close enough eye on him.”
5. I'm counting Monaco match as the great Federer says so.
6. Famous Wimbledon 2010 where Nadal is warned and fined- and Nadal admits that in the past "Toni talks to much" indicating more than a few occasions
7. Nadal vs. Nishikori  AO 2014 where Nadal is warned by umpire.
8. French open final against Djokovic where Djokovics father witnesses Toni coaching

There are your 8 Amri which I will stop at.. 8 that I came up with by memory and literly 5 minutes on google.  I've personally seen several other matches where he has been warned, witnessed Toni doing it live and multiple other players speaking out, but I am stopping there just to show you how easy 8 was--  5 minutes.

I could also include Toni admitting it to his friend, well respected Spanish journalist and official Toni Nadal documentary writer that he coaches Nadal often and doesn't care about hiding it-- which certainly has to indicate more than the ones I listed above......


Now you fulfill your challenge and provide a link to every match Nadal has played and I will share the task with you and go through each one and see if there are another 8 in there........... me thinks there are.

btw- I realize you will have an excuse for each incident above.... desperate times call for desperate measures

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:34 pm

Can we have evidence please for 1 and 8. I am aware of the rest.
Number 8 is laughable if you expect me to take that seriously, in terms of the evidence.

So nearly at 1%, this is proving my point even more??? we are desperately unable to reach 2% of his matches and yet claim it is normal for him.

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Post by noleisthebest Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:10 pm

So, Amri, who are you going to support now for the rest of the tournament?


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Post by truffin1 Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:40 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:Can we have evidence please for 1 and 8. I am aware of the rest.
Number 8 is laughable if you expect me to take that seriously, in terms of the evidence.

So nearly at 1%, this is proving my point even more??? we are desperately unable to reach 2% of his matches and yet claim it is normal for him.

Who is desperately unable to reach 2%? I told you- we aren't bound by a magical number you deem satisfactory. It took me 5 minutes to find 8...   That's all you and the subject are worth to me

Why don't you produce the link to every match he ever played as you requested I do if you want to prove something? That's what you demanded of me. I told you I would share the task with you if you did it. 
As far as evidence.
1. http://www.latinospost.com/articles/28882/20131002/rafael-nadal-admits-cheating-during-u-s-open-2013-tennis.htm

You're well aware of that one already.  Nadal admits he received coaching and the interview is in multiple sources on google. I just chose the one above because it was 1st in line.

8. The evidence is what Djoko's father eyewitnessed. He's a nut but as trustworthy as Toni Nadal- so how can you laugh at him?   Would you like Djoko's father to present video evidence to you? Get real. Take him at his word.

If you don't believe #8 - try 2008 Rogers cup- lots of talk about that one too so you can make that 8 or 9 if you want.

Bottom line both Toni and Rafa admit it!!  So you instantly have no credibility if you argue otherwise as you do. 

That's all the time I'm wasting with you..  I won't respond to anymore of your nonsense head in the sand thinking on this subject...

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Post by N2D2L Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:41 pm

noleisthebest wrote:So, Amri, who are you going to support now for the rest of the tournament?

Interesting question; my first and second favourite players are both out  injured 

Let me have a look at the draw... probably Thiem as he is my favourite young player. I've seen a bit of him, not too much; certainly like what I've seen so far.

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