Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Haha, maybe.Tenez wrote:Polly 81 wrote:Finally had a chance to write here. Here goes...
Yaaaaaaaay!!!!!! Whoopeeeee!!!! You did it Stan!
Do you know that Switzerland is the only country to have two slam champions playing the game at the moment! Hooray for Switzerland as well, I say.
You see Jinxing works!
Are you Swiss?
No I'm not Swiss, love the country though. I just think that its a great achievement for a relatively small country that specializes in winter sports.
Polly 81- Posts : 340
Join date : 2013-11-07
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Yes. His time out was tactical but he never expected the crowd to boo him when he came back. I even think he had the extra burden of what Federer said the other day. He's under pressure at the moment concerning his behaviour. He wanted to get back in the match step by step but also saw how lost Wawrinka was, that also played a part. He knew he would have been under fire had he won this match. So he figured: "i'll show the world i tried but due to the injury it was impossible to win". Nadal almost made a win-win situation out of it: saving face and win some respect. He's a smart guy, for his fans!!SR wrote:gallery play wrote:Tenez, you only have to watch the first game of the second set to understand what happened. It's crucial you watch that game.
You can see a fit as usual Nadal, playing like he always does yet he is blown off court no matter what he tried. Even in the long rally he dominated he is 4 yards away from the last ball Wawrinka hits. After 3 points he looks to Tony with panic in his eyes and Tony coaches a bit, but the very next point Stan hits the best return of the day. Nadal is stunned.
There was absolutely no sign of injury but it was a certainty Nadal would ask for a time out after that display of Wawrinka. Nadal's game never looked so obsolete as in that first game.
5 minutes later Nadal starts the drama, but the crucial part was when he returned on court: the audience really went against him and that left him with a big dilemma: he wanted to fight back but how credible would that have been?
I think Stan had the form to beat NAdal anyway but Nadal shoot himself in the foot today by pushing the drama a bit too far.
gp, I didn't have the sound on so I couldn't tell what was happening at the crowd.
Did they get fed up with the MTO and boo him when he came out? Do you think the angry fans played a part in unraveling nadal's game and composure and contributed to his loss?
gallery play- Posts : 2620
Join date : 2012-09-05
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Total nonsense; if he wasn't injured he could have just played normally and then later say that the trainer's cream and message was effective.
Remember Djokovic genuinely had a back injury in USO 2011, and after a MTO and trainer treating it, it became better. Of course it doesn't always become better (ie today) but it can.
Remember Djokovic genuinely had a back injury in USO 2011, and after a MTO and trainer treating it, it became better. Of course it doesn't always become better (ie today) but it can.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
Join date : 2013-05-03
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Yes good point too. I notice a slow step at 4/2 in the 1st set....maybe too good a shot from Stan, maybe something showing there already.....I'll really have to watch that match....but your angle certainly makes lots of sense....true or not!gallery play wrote:Yes. His time out was tactical but he never expected the crowd to boo him when he came back. I even think he had the extra burden of what Federer said the other day. He's under pressure at the moment concerning his behaviour. He wanted to get back in the match step by step but also saw how lost Wawrinka was, that also played a part. He knew he would have been under fire had he won this match. So he figured: "i'll show the world i tried but due to the injury it was impossible to win". Nadal almost made a win-win situation out of it: saving face and win some respect. He's a smart guy, for his fans!!
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Yes Djoko, good example! His time outs never have been controversial, or..Julia Santamaria wrote:Total nonsense; if he wasn't injured he could have just played normally and then later say that the trainer's cream and message was effective.
Remember Djokovic genuinely had a back injury in USO 2011, and after a MTO and trainer treating it, it became better. Of course it doesn't always become better (ie today) but it can.
gallery play- Posts : 2620
Join date : 2012-09-05
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
I am still completely fuzzy about this match, and still find it hard to get my head around what happened (the first 2 and a half sets I saw).
One thing I can discern from it all was the breath-taking level of Nadal's acting and the utter contempt for tennis and his opponent.
It was unreal.
One thing I can discern from it all was the breath-taking level of Nadal's acting and the utter contempt for tennis and his opponent.
It was unreal.
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Interesting from Stan and the reason why I thought he'd never win today!
Q. When you went up 4 2 in the fourth set, then you played that horrible game. Now it's forgotten, but...
STANISLAS WAWRINKA: The problem is I didn't play well because I was waiting for him to miss, and that was a big mistake from myself. Because I was nervous, I was like, Okay, miss, miss, make a mistake, because I'm not going to win the match because I'm nervous; I start to realize that I can win the Grand Slam.
But then I did two good game. I was moving better, just play aggressive, and I finished well the match.
================
Hopefully that will change his mindset from now on. That's all it takes!
Q. When you went up 4 2 in the fourth set, then you played that horrible game. Now it's forgotten, but...
STANISLAS WAWRINKA: The problem is I didn't play well because I was waiting for him to miss, and that was a big mistake from myself. Because I was nervous, I was like, Okay, miss, miss, make a mistake, because I'm not going to win the match because I'm nervous; I start to realize that I can win the Grand Slam.
But then I did two good game. I was moving better, just play aggressive, and I finished well the match.
================
Hopefully that will change his mindset from now on. That's all it takes!
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Well I have watched the first games of the first set and to me it is clear that Nadal is already struggling. Way under par compared to his display v Fed on Friday. If you look at it Stan plays well but lots of his shots are easy to time. Not the same bite on the ball from Nadal which would have made his shots much more risky.
Not sure what the speed he was serving v Fed but in that first set he is around 185kmh....not much, is it?
Not sure what the speed he was serving v Fed but in that first set he is around 185kmh....not much, is it?
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
To quote myself from a few days ago:
blister, knee, back..who cares!
noleisthebest wrote:I could live with all the blister and knee excuses under the sun if Stan wins.
You do know he never even won a set off Nadal and is a proven choker.
Did you see their WTF match in November?
He is simply too slow for Nadal.
I'll watch a masochistic first set at least....maybe the knees and the blister do come to really haunt Nadal in that match!
blister, knee, back..who cares!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Sure and watching the second party of the first set I think it is not as clear as I thought. he looks just a bit stiff but nothing much. You'd expect his body to relax and warm up.....so now up to the second set.....
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
If he had anything, it was a niggle which he blew up to biblical proportions with his acting and gamesmanship.
Nadal didn't look his very sharpest from the beginning, but neither did he look sharp against Fed in the first few games. He may have started the match with a pulled muscle of a bearable intensity (otherwise there is no way he could have hit any shots) and being a superstitious hypochondriac, served a bit slower, which was enough for Stan to break once.
I saw only 2 and a half sets, tried to watch BBC highlights, but turned it off after 2 minutes.
It was a very strange match. I am sure Nadal would have gladly taken the title had Stan not pulled himself together in the 4th set. The beginning of the 3rd set, Nadal had Stan on the mental ropes - rallying and angry.
Just can't bring myself to watching the 4 th set and finding out exactly how it all happened.
Nadal didn't look his very sharpest from the beginning, but neither did he look sharp against Fed in the first few games. He may have started the match with a pulled muscle of a bearable intensity (otherwise there is no way he could have hit any shots) and being a superstitious hypochondriac, served a bit slower, which was enough for Stan to break once.
I saw only 2 and a half sets, tried to watch BBC highlights, but turned it off after 2 minutes.
It was a very strange match. I am sure Nadal would have gladly taken the title had Stan not pulled himself together in the 4th set. The beginning of the 3rd set, Nadal had Stan on the mental ropes - rallying and angry.
Just can't bring myself to watching the 4 th set and finding out exactly how it all happened.
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Well I have now seen the second set and I think he certainly had something there. I noticed it in the first set and I was not surprised to hear that his second serve win ratio was only 17% in that first set. while it was 65% during the tournament. As well as Stan was playing he was certainly helped by an easier, less spiny ball to hit.
However I am not impressed by Nadal's attitude in his second set. I am pretty sure Fed was feeling as bad in many matches, including on Friday, yet we don't know for sure about it, we only suspect so that Rafa and his fans can be happy.
And as I said many times, Nadal's injury are simply the result of pushing his body too hard!
However I am not impressed by Nadal's attitude in his second set. I am pretty sure Fed was feeling as bad in many matches, including on Friday, yet we don't know for sure about it, we only suspect so that Rafa and his fans can be happy.
And as I said many times, Nadal's injury are simply the result of pushing his body too hard!
Last edited by Tenez on Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Today 1st set:Tenez wrote:Not sure what the speed he was serving v Fed but in that first set he is around 185kmh....not much, is it?
1st serve average 180kmh (fastest 200kmh)
SF vs Roger:
1st serve average 176kmh (fastest 198kmh)
summerblues- Posts : 5068
Join date : 2012-05-19
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Tenez wrote:Well I have now seen the second serve and I think he certainly had something there. I noticed it in the first set and I was not surprised to hear that his second serve win ratio was only 17% in that first set. while it was 65%. As well as Stan was playing he was certainly helped by an easier ball to hit.
However I am not impressed by Nadal's attitude in his second set. I am pretty sure Fed was feeling as bad in many matches, including on Friday, yet we don't know for sure about it, we only suspect so that Rafa and his fans can be happy.
And as I said many times, Nadal's injury are simply the result of pushing his body too hard!
I will need to look at him myself, that back injuries happen quite often. I saw many players who could hardly bend his back before matches and then served 200km/hr. Keep in mind that Nadal's serve causes the biggest trouble due to his kick, he hardly ever serves over 190km/hr.
Eurosport is going to show that match in a half an hour, so looking forward much as never.
paulcz- Posts : 1774
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
summerblues wrote:Today 1st set:Tenez wrote:Not sure what the speed he was serving v Fed but in that first set he is around 185kmh....not much, is it?
1st serve average 180kmh (fastest 200kmh)
SF vs Roger:
1st serve average 176kmh (fastest 198kmh)
That says all, that was a sheer theatre.
paulcz- Posts : 1774
Join date : 2012-07-14
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Ok...still I saw that first set and second set and he seriously looked hampered (beyond some acting for sure). Don't you agree? he actually plays better in the 4th set....again probably due to Stan being all over the pace...yet one feels his power is coming back.summerblues wrote:Today 1st set:Tenez wrote:Not sure what the speed he was serving v Fed but in that first set he is around 185kmh....not much, is it?
1st serve average 180kmh (fastest 200kmh)
SF vs Roger:
1st serve average 176kmh (fastest 198kmh)
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
paulcz wrote:I will need to look at him myself, that back injuries happen quite often. I saw many players who could hardly bend his back before matches and then served 200km/hr. Keep in mind that Nadal's serve causes the biggest trouble due to his kick, he hardly ever serves over 190km/hr.
Eurosport is going to show that match in a half an hour, so looking forward much as never.
Yes let me know what you think. It's actually quite good to see a match without too much emotion like we usually have during live.
Too me I find nadal very impressive v Federer and the set or Monfils I saw....but today he is pretty tamed.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
He was moving fine imo first set.
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
You mean 2nd set after MTO? Yes, certainly he does look well below 100% then, as well as the rest of the match.Tenez wrote:Ok...still I saw that first set and second set and he seriously looked hampered (beyond some acting for sure). Don't you agree?
I did not see 1st set live and only watched it after the match. No, I would not say he is clearly injured there. It is not his best set ever but nothing extraordinarily poor either. He started slowish, but he often does, and I thought he looked pretty much his normal self in the second half of the set. I suppose if one really wants to look for an injury one could see some plays that could have been injury-impacted but at the same time nothing different enough from his usual self that could not have been played if he were perfectly fine.
All in all, I do not think I agree with GP that it was all a sharade - if it had been he would have played better in that tail end of the 4th set and I do not buy the reason that GP gives - that it was too obvious for him to be able to go to his full mode. But I did think he looked fine right up to the MTO almost - or more precisely until midway through the third game of the second set.
summerblues- Posts : 5068
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
What a first point of the second set, Stan was excellent. Absolute demolition and another cannon inside out and three break points, Nadal flies on the court like laundry on a washing line. No back injury at all.
paulcz- Posts : 1774
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
That whole first game was fantastic - I could watch it again and again. The first point Rafa is trying his usual play bossing Stan around the court - and he is doing it quite well - yet in the end Stan ends with a fantastic winner.paulcz wrote:What a first point of the second set, Stan was excellent. Absolute demolition and another cannon inside out and three break points, Nadal flies on the court like laundry on a washing line. No back injury at all.
And then the return on the BP - what a glorious return that was.
summerblues- Posts : 5068
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Fair enough. In the first set his shots lacked the violence he is famous for and that he showed versus Federer. He can move fine but his swing is not as hard. It means it becomes much easier to time the ball. As I said in that first set he is only winning 17% of the points on his second serve while an average of 65% over the tournament! I found out that stat after having made up my mind about the first set and it is quite a telling stat.summerblues wrote:You mean 2nd set after MTO? Yes, certainly he does look well below 100% then, as well as the rest of the match.Tenez wrote:Ok...still I saw that first set and second set and he seriously looked hampered (beyond some acting for sure). Don't you agree?
I did not see 1st set live and only watched it after the match. No, I would not say he is clearly injured there. It is not his best set ever but nothing extraordinarily poor either. He started slowish, but he often does, and I thought he looked pretty much his normal self in the second half of the set. I suppose if one really wants to look for an injury one could see some plays that could have been injury-impacted but at the same time nothing different enough from his usual self that could not have been played if he were perfectly fine.
All in all, I do not think I agree with GP that it was all a sharade - if it had been he would have played better in that tail end of the 4th set and I do not buy the reason that GP gives - that it was too obvious for him to be able to go to his full mode. But I did think he looked fine right up to the MTO almost - or more precisely until midway through the third game of the second set.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Do you change your mind depending on who you're arguing withAll in all, I do not think I agree with GP that it was all a sharade - if it had been he would have played better in that tail end of the 4th set and I do not buy the reason that GP gives - that it was too obvious for him to be able to go to his full mode. But I did think he looked fine right up to the MTO almost - or more precisely until midway through the third game of the second set.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Hehe, I hope not, though I may emphasize the parts I disagree with more depending on the poster, as they are more likely to lead to discussion.Julia Santamaria wrote:Do you change your mind depending on who you're arguing with
Also, I did not quite say that I thought he was making it up, I just said I would not put it quite past him. For better of for worse, we see him differently. I think he does more than his fair share of petty gamesmanship and cheating, so I am more inclined to suspect him. Particularly I think he can be quite bad on MTOs, so it is also a bit of the boy who cried wolf for me.
I never went with GP's idea that it would have been too over the top so he needed to lose intentionally. I was thinking that maybe he could have thought that he actually had a better chance by playing subpar, and just maybe waiting to go for the kill in the right moment - after all that is how he got the third set. But, having thought of it some more, I am sure he would have played those last two service games better had he been ok - he could not afford to lose a service game just to lull Stan into complacency at that point.
summerblues- Posts : 5068
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
So you're saying the top class analysis from Paul, FedererKing, GP, and ROTLA is wrong?summerblues wrote: But, having thought of it some more, I am sure he would have played those last two service games better had he been ok - he could not afford to lose a service game just to lull Stan into complacency at that point.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Yes, I disagree with them. But that is all fair, we all see it differently. Plus I admit that I thought Rafa was likely fine up until well into the fourth set - even though he was obviously playing massively subpar by then. But again, to me it is the boy who cried wolf - he has done it too many times before.Julia Santamaria wrote:So you're saying the top class analysis from Paul, FedererKing, GP, and ROTLA is wrong?summerblues wrote: But, having thought of it some more, I am sure he would have played those last two service games better had he been ok - he could not afford to lose a service game just to lull Stan into complacency at that point.
summerblues- Posts : 5068
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
When?summerblues wrote: But again, to me it is the boy who cried wolf - he has done it too many times before.
Apart from Wimbledon 2010 I can't think of any MTOs which are possible dodgy (also we can never actually be sure whether they are dodgy or not... it may just be Nadal is more prone to injury, and with modern science MTOs can make a difference a lot of the time)
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
I still think GP makes a valid point. IMO Nadal wants desperately to win in that 4th set but there is a clear point where nadal starts to run and win it with a great shot but a large share of the crowd starts to whistle and it's there to remind him that he will have lots of explaining to do if he makes th emost of the situation which is beat an all-over-the place, discouraged Stan.
So in short his mind is no longer fully in the match, down to the impediment certainly but also the crowd. I am pretty sure of that!
So in short his mind is no longer fully in the match, down to the impediment certainly but also the crowd. I am pretty sure of that!
Last edited by Tenez on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Link me a video of this point in the 4th set, I think you're hearing things.Tenez wrote:I still think GP makes a valid point. IMO Nadal wants desperately to win in that 4th set but there is a clear point where nadal starts to run and win it with a great shot but a large share of the crowd starts to whistle and it's there to remind him that he will have lots of explaining to do if he makes th emost of the situation which is an all-over-the place, discouraged Stan.
So in short his mind is no longer fully in the match, down to the impediment certainly but also the crowd. I am pretty sure of that!
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
This forum would be pretty boring without me.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Its at the beginning of the 4th or end of the 3rd....Not hearing voices....It's on the beeb!Julia Santamaria wrote:Link me a video of this point in the 4th set, I think you're hearing things.Tenez wrote:I still think GP makes a valid point. IMO Nadal wants desperately to win in that 4th set but there is a clear point where nadal starts to run and win it with a great shot but a large share of the crowd starts to whistle and it's there to remind him that he will have lots of explaining to do if he makes th emost of the situation which is an all-over-the place, discouraged Stan.
So in short his mind is no longer fully in the match, down to the impediment certainly but also the crowd. I am pretty sure of that!
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Everyone would agree with each other with everything.
Apart from SB, who would be cynical even if he agreed.
Actually LS would also disagree with a few things, but not throw up a big fuss.
Apart from SB, who would be cynical even if he agreed.
Actually LS would also disagree with a few things, but not throw up a big fuss.
Last edited by Julia Santamaria on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Video link, with the timings.Tenez wrote:
Its at the beginning of the 4th or end of the 3rd....Not hearing voices....It's on the beeb!
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Julia Santamaria wrote:This forum would be pretty boring without me.
We are not that many so when one of us is not around it is felt...yet we have the best posters here. all civilised and grown ups. If anything you are the most "fan" of us all.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
I do not keep track of them all but I am sure I have seen good many. Did he not take one in his match against Fed - was it Cincy or IW?Julia Santamaria wrote:Apart from Wimbledon 2010 I can't think of any MTOs which are possible dodgy (also we can never actually be sure whether they are dodgy or not...
Of course we cannot be sure if they are dodgy. I could be wrong, maybe they are all real. Or you could be wrong and maybe they are mostly fake.
summerblues- Posts : 5068
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Don't think he took one in Cincy against Fed, certainly not IW this year. IW 2012 he took a toilet break, but not an MTO.summerblues wrote:I do not keep track of them all but I am sure I have seen good many. Did he not take one in his match against Fed - was it Cincy or IW?Julia Santamaria wrote:Apart from Wimbledon 2010 I can't think of any MTOs which are possible dodgy (also we can never actually be sure whether they are dodgy or not...
Of course we cannot be sure if they are dodgy. I could be wrong, maybe they are all real. Or you could be wrong and maybe they are mostly fake.
Look SB, if you make this claim, I would have thought you would have had some better examples lined up. Especially considering these examples initially led you to believe that Nadal was basically match fixing.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Players who bump into opponents on changeovers are capable of anything and are obviously not nice people. It's that simple. If you played an opponent who did that, you'd lose all respect for them. Nadal is the only player I know that has persistently cheated and who has physically interacted in that way with another player. You can put your fingers in your ears until the cows come home, but that won't change.
The proof is all there to see. A number of players have complained about Nadal.
The proof is all there to see. A number of players have complained about Nadal.
Daniel- Posts : 3645
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
JS: Here are the ones that i remember quite well.
1) MC final 2008 vs feds. Nadal 5-2 down first set and was getting outplayed. Out of nowhere he calls for a MTO and promptly wins the next 5 games.
2) Hamburg final '08 vs feds: Feds serving for the set, rafa takes a MTO that takes 6mins. Guess what he loses his serve and then later the set.
That could have resulted in a straight set win as he won the 2nd, but that is just conjecture.
3) Nuff said about Petzschner but he called the trainer numerous times when he was down, eventually prevailing in 5. Petz said he didn't see any diffo b4 or after the MTO in rafa's movement.
4) Nadal vs delpo wimby '11: Nadal calls for a mto, seriously pissing off delpo b4 the tiebreak just as delpo was playing his best tennis of the match.
Other players do this as well, but the point is that this is why people feel he cried wolf ok?
1) MC final 2008 vs feds. Nadal 5-2 down first set and was getting outplayed. Out of nowhere he calls for a MTO and promptly wins the next 5 games.
2) Hamburg final '08 vs feds: Feds serving for the set, rafa takes a MTO that takes 6mins. Guess what he loses his serve and then later the set.
That could have resulted in a straight set win as he won the 2nd, but that is just conjecture.
3) Nuff said about Petzschner but he called the trainer numerous times when he was down, eventually prevailing in 5. Petz said he didn't see any diffo b4 or after the MTO in rafa's movement.
4) Nadal vs delpo wimby '11: Nadal calls for a mto, seriously pissing off delpo b4 the tiebreak just as delpo was playing his best tennis of the match.
Other players do this as well, but the point is that this is why people feel he cried wolf ok?
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
But I am not making a claim, I am presenting my opinion. I am not trying to prove anything with certainty - I watch tennis, I remember certain things that happen and I create my opinion based on them. I do not have to keep a list just so that I can be certain my opinion is correct. But at the same time, just because I do not keep a list, I do not have to throw up my arms and have no opinion.Julia Santamaria wrote:Look SB, if you make this claim, I would have thought you would have had some better examples lined up.
summerblues- Posts : 5068
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Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
LS I cannot remember your examples 1 and 2; but is it not likely that:
a) if he was losing to Fed on clay he could be genuinely injured
b) due to modern medicine and science a MTO would help?
Both of these are very possible.
As for point 4, Nadal immediately winced as his foot landed when he created a set point in the 1st set. He the was barely moving, and allowed Del P 3 easy points to hold and take it to 6-6.
Why would he fake an injury just to let Del Potro save set point? Funnily enough Del P also took a MTO on that match, he hurt his hip I think,
a) if he was losing to Fed on clay he could be genuinely injured
b) due to modern medicine and science a MTO would help?
Both of these are very possible.
As for point 4, Nadal immediately winced as his foot landed when he created a set point in the 1st set. He the was barely moving, and allowed Del P 3 easy points to hold and take it to 6-6.
Why would he fake an injury just to let Del Potro save set point? Funnily enough Del P also took a MTO on that match, he hurt his hip I think,
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
Join date : 2013-05-03
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Why?
Feds can outplay nadal on any surface for at least a set e.g. FO '06 6-1 set.
Watch those matches, it really doesn't show up at all.
See if you cannot remember or have even seen it, why are you defending it?
Either say you don't know and without doing the research I cannot say instead of blindly defending Nadal? This really does not do you any favours.
I am not hatah and on reflection I feel I can be quite objective (still subjective but still!)
He wasn't injured and he did it to wrestle the momentum away from Feds imo.
So nothing to do with the fact that Delpo pulled out some huge serves and great points? Not always down to rafa.
Feds can outplay nadal on any surface for at least a set e.g. FO '06 6-1 set.
Watch those matches, it really doesn't show up at all.
See if you cannot remember or have even seen it, why are you defending it?
Either say you don't know and without doing the research I cannot say instead of blindly defending Nadal? This really does not do you any favours.
I am not hatah and on reflection I feel I can be quite objective (still subjective but still!)
He wasn't injured and he did it to wrestle the momentum away from Feds imo.
So nothing to do with the fact that Delpo pulled out some huge serves and great points? Not always down to rafa.
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
Join date : 2012-09-28
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
But if a player performs better after a medical time out (in general, I'm not just taking about a specific instance), is it not possible that the MTO did help?
I think it's difficult to know for sure either way, unless you are in the mind of the player.
I think it's difficult to know for sure either way, unless you are in the mind of the player.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
Join date : 2013-05-03
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
you ignored most of my post re you making assumptions without evidence.
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
Join date : 2012-09-28
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
I count the timeout he took to have the trainer cut off tape he said was bothering his foot against fed on the FO final 11. Fed was blowing him off the court after continuing his momentum from beating djok in semifinal. That was as blatant a case of gamesmanship I've seen. His foot taped long before the match, same as always, plenty of time to test, and he has to have a trainer come out to cut a meaningless tiny piece off? Disgusting.
Also the timeout he took on match point in iw against fed was disgusting.
It's unbeleivable to me when his fans start pretending he doesn't do these things. It's like someone saying Ali didn't trash talk.
Also the timeout he took on match point in iw against fed was disgusting.
It's unbeleivable to me when his fans start pretending he doesn't do these things. It's like someone saying Ali didn't trash talk.
Last edited by truffin1 on Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
truffin1- Posts : 861
Join date : 2012-10-13
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
So injured he then won the 3rd set. Not buying it. Only ever injured when losing. Rosol= injured, Darcis = injured, Soderling = Injured. I play tennis a lot, and one day I was at the gym and pulled a muscle in my arm. I couldn't win ONE game the next day at tennis, I had to abandon playing (so did cousin for same reason later in the week). And Nadal fans are telling me that a serious back injury means Nadal can win a whole set in a Slam final, the very peak of tennis ability? Pull the other one. That's not just implausible, it's impossible. If you have ANY really debilitating injury in a slam final, you aren't winning a game, let alone a set.
Even if he was injured, which he wasn't, fitness is a part of tennis. He has no one to blame but himself and limiting style of play.
Nadal fans are so blinded by fanboyism that they can't see it.
Even if he was injured, which he wasn't, fitness is a part of tennis. He has no one to blame but himself and limiting style of play.
Nadal fans are so blinded by fanboyism that they can't see it.
Daniel- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-11-06
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
What a tourney from STAN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6NEYZW6Smk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6NEYZW6Smk
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
Join date : 2012-09-28
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Last time #1 and #2 were beaten by the same player to win a slam was Bruguera in RG 1993, IIRC.
Del Potro comes close at USO 2009, but he beat Federer (#1) and Nadal (#3), since Murray was #2.
Del Potro comes close at USO 2009, but he beat Federer (#1) and Nadal (#3), since Murray was #2.
laverfan- Posts : 1073
Join date : 2012-08-14
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Tenez wrote:noleisthebest wrote:Tenez wrote:Woww Stan.....doesn't matter if you lose from now....you are the best!
Off I go.....see you everybody.
Get that Yonex firing
I actually played so poorly yesterday that I whacked it to dust against a wall.....I never used to do that but I have broken 2 in 2 years....I must watch my behaviour! Not good!
Well done Stan...never in doubt! Cough....cough!
I hope you wore the strap. Tennis elbow is a killer for SBH....Don't push it, or you'll have to switch to playing as a lefty!
Love the fire and passion, though!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Yes sadly I forget that I am a bit old now for doing things like that.noleisthebest wrote:Tenez wrote:noleisthebest wrote:Tenez wrote:Woww Stan.....doesn't matter if you lose from now....you are the best!
Off I go.....see you everybody.
Get that Yonex firing
I actually played so poorly yesterday that I whacked it to dust against a wall.....I never used to do that but I have broken 2 in 2 years....I must watch my behaviour! Not good!
Well done Stan...never in doubt! Cough....cough!
I hope you wore the strap. Tennis elbow is a killer for SBH....Don't push it, or you'll have to switch to playing as a lefty!
Love the fire and passion, though!
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 14 Men's Final
Stop being silly!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
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