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ATP Masters 1000: Paris

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ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:36 pm

Officially the last ATP tournament of the year before the best ranked 8 players'  showdown in London.

Unfortunately, just like last year, this year's Paris Bercy is back to back with London (which is changing next year, there will be a week in between), still the fact that three places are left for the WTF and Fed is fighting for one of them does add a considerable bit of drama to the tournament.
Another potential change is that should Nole win in Paris, he recaptures his number one ranking from Nadal even if he makes it to the final.

According to Guy Forget, the tournament director, the surface this year again has to be identical to that in London, but will be sped up next year:

"As was already the case last year, the playing conditions – namely the balls and the surface – will be identical to those at the ATP World Tour Finals de London and should therefore suit all players. With the end-of-season "Masters" being so close, there was no way that we could make conditions any quicker, though it's something that we will be thinking about in the future since there will be a week's break between the BNP Paribas Masters and London in 2014."

ATP Masters 1000 Paris, Indor Hard

The BNP Paribas Masters is the ninth and final ATP World Tour Masters 1000 event. As the final tournament of the regular men’s tennis season, the Palais Omnisports in Bercy showcases the cream of the crop as they vie to win the prestigious title and clinch one of the remaining qualifying spots in the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals.


Players: everyone except Andy Murray, EVEN MARIN CILIC!!!

The Draw:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2013/352/mds.pdf

(officially not released on the website but the long and short of it goes like this: Nadal and Berdych in one half, Nole and Fed (seeded 4th) in the other.
Delpo in Fed's quarter, Stan in Nole's. Tsonga in Nadal's, Ferrer in Berdych's.

Interesting first round matches:
Pospisil-Monfils
Dimitrov-Llodra (WC)
Gulbis-Verdasco
Dolgopolov-Mahut

Order Of Play:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2013/352/op.pdf



Parlez vous les tennis? racket1 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHjWNXx_T78


Last edited by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by luvsports! on Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:17 pm

ca plane pour moi?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by summerblues on Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:56 am

noleisthebest wrote:Another potential change is that should Nole win in Paris, he recaptures his number ranking from Nadal even if he makes it to the final.
Is that really true?  The way I understood it, WTF points from the previous year always drop out before the current year's WTF (unlike for other tournaments).  If so, Nole would lose his 2012 WTF points right after Paris, so a win in Paris would not bring him to #1 - not even if Rafa skipped Paris.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:42 pm

I am not sure about WTF points dropping, can't remember how it went last year, but I do remember Nole took over Fed's number one after Paris.
What I am sure about is that Nadal has a joke of a draw.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:10 pm

Yes I think SB is right.....I remember the points dropping before WTF or even before Paris starts.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:16 pm

Extremely tough draw for Nadal.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:18 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:Extremely tough draw for Nadal.
I know....Nadal is so pathetic when he is cycling down, even Granollers who he is scheduled to play first presents a challenge.
Mind you, he did dodge Basel in order to "regroup" his body.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:03 am

What a sublime volleyer Llodra is!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:04 pm

Dolgopolov may not have "the future", but he sure has the present.
Right here and right now he is rocking and rolling on that tennis court in Bercy.
What a player....

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by laverfan on Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:21 pm

Paire lost very strangely yesterday.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:37 pm

Watching a bit of Paris ....the bounce looks so high for an indoor court....bit ridiculous. YOu see Gasquet and Verdasco playing a Nadal game. Weird.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:08 pm

It's amazing how that one bad line-call at he beginning of Verdasco's last service game in the 2nd set which Gasquet chose not to challenge, cost him the set, will possibly cost him the match and eventually qualifying for the WTF...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:57 pm

Yes Rich shoudl have closed it in 2....but good on him not to lose concentration and heart and close it in the 3rd.

I know the ca angle contributes a lot to courts slow feel but they still do look particularly slow.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:24 pm

If it's identical to O2 as Forget claims it is, it's a very rough, sandy surface that feels like coarse sandpaper when you touch it, I'd imagine it would fluff the balls really fast.
To me, Bercy looks different to O2, O2 does not provide such high bounce.
The court looks almost tailored for Nadal.
Maybe the balls are different, or just "ordered" to be different for this year, both for Bercy and O2.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:26 pm

Sad to see injured Tsonga serve out 3 double faults in the tie break,  including one on the match point...
So,  no WTF for him next week (Gasquet and Stan must be elated), maybe it's better he never qualified as he is obviously carrying a leg injury which did not look insignificant today.
Shame, I watched him last year and he looked a bit lost in the space having just signed Rasheed on, was really low on confidence.
He has apparently just signed on TWO new coaches.
Nishikori, I wish somebody told him he looked like kamikaze with that white bandana (with a red logo on the temple!), he even served like one: went down the T on his 2nd serve, on Tsonga's match point...

Look forward to seeing this new young French player who seems to have beaten Paire very easily yesterday.
I suppose, he spared me a lot of grief.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:46 pm

I agree that from what I saw today the court seemed tailored for Nadal.

with Tsonga gone does it mean Gasquet, Fed and Stan are all qualified?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:02 pm

I hope they have ( and all 3 SBHs!), but I think Raonic has a theoretical chance as well.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by DECIMA on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:07 pm

Raonic has to win the tournament to stop Fed.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by DECIMA on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:07 pm

I'd be surprised if he even reached the QF.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:09 pm

I like this young Frenchman, Herbert, he both looks and plays "organic".
Same height and weight as Novak but moves so differently on the court. He does not look that fast but covers the inside of the court quite well.
Still, prefer Paire any day....

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by paulcz on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:31 pm

Watching Nole's match, the guy with Nole plays must be a Pete's cousin. What a serve that Herbert has. That is one of the best on the circuit.

But his racket swaying before serving looks a bit weird, just devilish Cool

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:44 pm

To me it's more like Becker's, all that rocking, an interesting looking player, very natural, almost unusual in today's tennis where they all just patrol the base-line as their bread and butter.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by paulcz on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:51 pm

noleisthebest wrote:To me it's more like Becker's, all that rocking, an interesting looking player, very natural, almost unusual in today's tennis where they all just patrol the base-line as their bread and butter.
That rocking comes from Becker, but his  leg stance, back arch and elbow motion it is just Pete.
 
Herbert looks as if he was born in the  80', but was frozen for 10 years and this summer the refrigerator was broken and Herbert jumped out of it Big Grin


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:52 pm

Shoot. Missed the Djoko Herbert match. Never heard of Herbert.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by paulcz on Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:08 pm

Herbert has a bad luck of late birth. If he could have played Wimbledon at 80-90 years,  would have been quite interisting to watch him there.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:12 pm

Very much like Llodra.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by laverfan on Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:42 pm

Tenez wrote:Shoot. Missed the Djoko Herbert match. Never heard of Herbert.
Fantastic first set. Djokovic went exho second set at 5-1, and his inability to close matches (usual for him now) showed up. Good match.

Good serve, FH needs work. Foot speed work. Add some muscle and core strength. Aggressive with net play that has lots of room for improvement.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:45 am

Sounds promising. Problem with French talent is that they are not pushed hard enough early enough. By this i mean they essentially don't get tough training and more importantly exposure versus the top players (essentially through WCs). If you look at the way Murray was taken care of for instance, it's a huge advantage.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:40 am

I am very grateful for French tennis.
To me, nobody plays the game like the French, and the way they play is just the result of their huge love for it.
They are the fairest, most sportsmanlike players on the tour and when they beat you it's by pure tennis skill, nothing else - no mind games, time wasting, no obvious medicine, no on court coaching, no gamesmanship at all.

They are complete opposites from the machiavelian Spanish.

Today, Nadal and Granollers are playing but I am definitely not going to watch them.  Why should I? It would be a complete torture in every possible way.

I don't know how French tennis federation operates in details, but it's probably similar to Switzerland which is a great country to pick up any sport, the infrastructure, general public safety and public transport are readily available to just about everyone which is so different from a very snobby, disjointed  and expensive UK.

I went to France a couple of times this year (incl RG) and every time I saw a tennis club, there were no spare courts. Even I had a go smiley

Young Herbert, just like Paire, Gasquet, Simon, Monfils, Llodra etc is another completely unique player, allowed to express his talent and his strengths without being brow beaten into Boletieri's "formula tennis" which guarantees "the future".

According to the amount of talent, heart  and physical ability they have,  French players will always try to use the entire court as much as they can.
That  is why they are so good to watch: the flair and different ways of conquering both your own limitations, the court and ultimately your opponent will always be their big advantage over the safe base-line grinding Spanish style, basic and dull big serve and not much else ho-hum  American style, or solid & quality, but too by the book, souless German all court school of tennis.

Even S. Tignor wrote an Ode to French tennis last night (albeit with a touch of envy)

" In the U.S., we like to say that the French men can’t win the big ones, and we're right—it's been 30 years since one of them won a Grand Slam. But what they lack in ultimate quality, they make up for with quantity and variety. Currently there are nine Frenchmen in the ATP’s Top 50, compared to just two from the States. More than that, though, the French have a knack for the game’s nuances. It runs in their blood; court tennis, the ancestor of lawn tennis, was invented in France. Perhaps to its detriment, France has developed few straight-ahead power players. But from the high-flying theatrics of Monfils and Tsonga, to the baroque backhand of Richard Gasquet, to the all-court polish of Julien Benneteau, to the knuckleheaded flash of Benoit Paire, the French are always watchable. As long as you aren’t rooting too hard for them. Tuesday night we got a look at another young Frenchman, the intriguingly named Pierre-Hugues Herbert (pictured above). The 22-year-old, ranked No. 189, had set points on Novak Djokovic in the first set before losing it in a tiebreaker. "

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/10/show-goes/49621/#.UnDNi8sgGSM

In conclusion:
Viva le France!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:20 am

I might be buyist but I very much agree with you. I also like the eastern players' tennis. In particular the Czech players. The Italian players are also great artists but unfortunately there is no room for such game at the top nowadays.

I disagree with the words used by Tignor. They lack on "ultimate consistency" yes but not quality.

It's the ridiculous consistency of those top players that kills hope in the rest of the field. Until we tackle the problems of that "consistency" we shoudl not criticise the other players.

WADA is currently trying to tackle peoblems by top Jamaican and Kenyan athletes but they should again concentrate on Tennis more than ever.


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:46 am

Funny you mentioned Jamaicans, as I spoke to one in our club yesterday.
He brought his son for coaching and as a group of us enjoyed the coffee break in the lovely afternoon sunshine, the conversation started and he said his son liked Nadal.
Off my "grr" bells went and I asked him: how can you allow your son to like Nadal, he is a doper etc etc...he looked at me as if I said the Earth was square and proudly announced he was "track and field" and started going on about Bolt etc, etc....
I said I didn't follow athletics any more because of doping, and then everyone jumped on me!
What, even Bradley Wiggins?
He is so skinny and anti-doping!!!  an aghast shocked middle class English women I had played earlier protested!
If looks could kill, I'd've been dead five times now!

It was fun to see everyone so agitated and at the same time so ignorant.

The Jamaican's argument was that it was all about "mental strength", and  "sweating blood"!

I mentioned the gist of The Race That Shocked The World, just to get out of Bolt and Jamaican thing, because I could see the guy was a bit thin-skinned on the patriotic front and then he opened up and told us about struggles his son is going through, the competition, the already unusually physically developed boys, the cut-throat, head-butting parents on the UK tennis junior circuit...
But still, nobody would even begin to engage the possibility of doping in professional circuits.
The refusal to even consider it was very telling.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by DECIMA on Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:59 am

noleisthebest wrote:Funny you mentioned Jamaicans, as I spoke to one in our club yesterday.
From what you've said, he seems like a great guy.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:29 am

noleisthebest wrote:Funny you mentioned Jamaicans, as I spoke to one in our club yesterday.
He brought his son for coaching and as a group of us enjoyed the coffee break in the lovely afternoon sunshine, the conversation started and he said his son liked Nadal.
Off my "grr" bells went and I asked him: how can you allow your son to like Nadal, he is a doper etc etc...he looked at me as if I said the Earth was square and proudly announced he was "track and field" and started going on about Bolt etc, etc....
I said I didn't follow athletics any more because of doping, and then everyone jumped on me!
What, even Bradley Wiggins?
He is so skinny and anti-doping!!!  an aghast shocked middle class English women I had played earlier protested!
If looks could kill, I'd've been dead five times now!

It was fun to see everyone so agitated and at the same time so ignorant.

The Jamaican's argument was that it was all about "mental strength", and  "sweating blood"!

I mentioned the gist of The Race That Shocked The World, just to get out of Bolt and Jamaican thing, because I could see the guy was a bit thin-skinned on the patriotic front and then he opened up and told us about struggles his son is going through, the competition, the already unusually physically developed boys, the cut-throat, head-butting parents on the UK tennis junior circuit...
But still, nobody would even begin to engage the possibility of doping in professional circuits.
The refusal to even consider it was very telling.
Very courageous to talk about it like that. They must have been really shocked.

In fact I made the same comments 6 or 7 years ago in my club...but the thing is since so many drug cheat stories came out one after another I have been delighted to tell them "I told you so" for everyone of them. But strangely enough many still want to only acknowledge doping when officially out and refuse to conider or even imagine others might. It woudl be a noble attitude in a way but the fact they are so keen to blame Chinese and RDA athletes without proof just shows the biased minds once again.

Once when I told them most top atheletes were doping I got the usual denying from most, however while discussing there was a rugby match on the bar's TV. I pointed to their bodies and 99% agreed that it must have been steroids muscles .Laugh 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:30 pm

Yes, when you see how basically 99% of people don't want to know, it's a miracle anybody gets caught at all.
I suppose all these WADA people are just trying to keep their jobs by looking busy doing the  absolute minimum in order to justify their salaries, which is why only small-fry ever gets caught, or their positive results published.
The latest was the knock-knock on Murray's door the morning he was going to receive his OBE.
The only other reason is the "cold war" superpower mentality/competition of who is going to win most gold medals.

Looks like Americas are winning the super race wih Lewis, Phelps & co.

If it wasn't tragic, it would be comic!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:56 pm

yes only "small(er)fries" (Powell, Gatlin...not Bolt) get caught or simply when the big brand names do not sell as much (LA).

Looks like Americas are winning the super race wih Lewis, Phelps & co.
Professional sport means professional doping.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:47 pm

Tenez wrote: Professional sport means professional doping.
I suppose it does. Most don't even blink when they do it. Just the latest skill one needs on a CV in order to compete on the (job) market.
Somehow it's harder to accept when it comes to athletes.
Everybody in this world cheats and lies, but never our sporting hero.

I don't follow cycling much but wonder what all LA "fans" think of him now.
I assume he must be a hated villain replaced by a new idol.

Imagine if Nadal was "proven" guilty!

Even Tsonga said the other day he does not believe anyone and that they all lie: players, WADA....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2478649/Jo-Wilfried-Tsonga-Everybody-lies-drugs.html

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:44 pm

wow...what an article!

....but again.....the sport goes on.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:57 pm

It does, which is why I can't wait to disappear from the scene as soon as I can.
In the meantime..always good to know that there are a few that speak out.
I don't know why, but it makes it easier to bear.
And there is always a tennis court, a ball and a racquet, somewhere to enjoy tennis without dope...which is exactly where I'm heading off to now!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:07 pm

Enjoy.....no dope but you still get bad line callers! Winking

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:36 pm

It's only 4 all between Nadal and Granollers but the winners/UE count is comical. Granny (he plays like one) has actually a much better winner rate than Nadal...you know Nadal, the one with teh best FH of all times! LOL!

And if Gran had just an ounce of composure he would be serving for the set. He messed up the easiest FH ever to give himself a BP.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:45 pm

I'll have a look as well (I can't believe I am saying this!)
Just saw Nadal break Granollers....he looks so awkward indoors!

JJ is going to be a tougher challenge for him tomorrow if he keeps his focus.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:56 pm

Tenez wrote:Enjoy.....no dope but you still get bad line callers! Winking


I know...it's pathetic!
The pleasure of beating them is special, though Cool 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by SayonaRa on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:01 pm

Tenez wrote:It's only 4 all between Nadal and Granollers but the winners/UE count is comical. Granny (he plays like one) has actually a much better winner rate than Nadal...you know Nadal, the one with teh best FH of all times! LOL!

And if Gran had just an ounce of composure he would be serving for the set. He messed up the easiest FH ever to give himself a BP.

Yes, for such a bland player, Granno initially shows much more flair than the alleged #1, who seems more tentative. Atm, I’m wondering why Nadal doesn’t play like the ball and surface conditions are most suitable for his game, as you have observed.
 
Except perhaps for Verdasco, none of his Spanish peers "has an ounce of composure" vs nadal. This match is just a formality.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:37 pm

It's strange to even think about it, but Nadal's problem seems to come from trying to dominate the base-line by standing closer to it than usual and is struggling to control the ball esp on his BH.

Granlloers isn't much of a server but Nadal is sending a lot of returns out.

His movement looks quite uncomfortable and clumsy trying to set up for his FH too. What a mess...yet he manages to get through and hang on as usual...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by DECIMA on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:40 pm

SR wrote:Except perhaps for Verdasco, none of his Spanish peers "has an ounce of composure" vs nadal. This match is just a formality.
What about Almagro?

smiley





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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:43 pm

Nadal's moonballing has reached epic priportions!
I bet half the crowd can't believe their eyes, Nadal is actually scared to hit the ball hard atm, imagine him trying to rip a flat FH winner...
The balls look pretty lively.

It will be easier to asses them in Fed Anderson match, Nole is going to have a very tough one against Isner's lobbing serves tomorrow!


Last edited by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by DECIMA on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:44 pm

This is a routine win, harder tests to come for Rafa.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by SayonaRa on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:09 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:
SR wrote:Except perhaps for Verdasco, none of his Spanish peers "has an ounce of composure" vs nadal. This match is just a formality.
What about Almagro?

smiley


What’s the matter with you? The guy never won a single match vs nadal in all of their 9 meetings. So what about almagro?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by DECIMA on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:12 pm

SR wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:
SR wrote:Except perhaps for Verdasco, none of his Spanish peers "has an ounce of composure" vs nadal. This match is just a formality.
What about Almagro?

smiley

What’s the matter with you? The guy never won a single match vs nadal in all of their 9 meetings. So what about almagro?

I posted a Youtube clip below
(i was agreeing with you btw)

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by SayonaRa on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:18 pm

Misunderstood your point. Got it now, thanks.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

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