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Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:39 pm

Oh you hate Nadal, but you show it in a much more clever way than SR and ROTLA.
Hatred with a professional face, the most dangerous of them all.

When you say you were best friends with Ali and 'know' Nadal was doping; you know what I think?
Give me any shred of evidence.
For all I know, and I do suspect this, you are a rabid Nadal hating Fed loving maniac; you will make up all sort of stories to back up your agenda. When you say you have 'friends on this forum as witnesses' I become even more unsure- they would probably be more likely to be consumed of Nadal hatred than you.

And oh by the way, a small little thing:
I directly asked you for any scientific evidence (or any at all infact) that PRP treatment could be used to cover up doping.
Guess how much you provided?

None.
And with that, I think the debate is just about concluded.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:13 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:Oh you hate Nadal, but you show it in a much more clever way than SR and ROTLA.
Hatred with a professional face, the most dangerous of them all.

When you say you were best friends with Ali and 'know' Nadal was doping; you know what I think?
Give me any shred of evidence.
For all I know, and I do suspect this, you are a rabid Nadal hating Fed loving maniac; you will make up all sort of stories to back up your agenda. When you say you have 'friends on this forum as witnesses' I become even more unsure- they would probably be more likely to be consumed of Nadal hatred than you.

And oh by the way, a small little thing:
I directly asked you for any scientific evidence (or any at all infact) that PRP treatment could be used to cover up doping.
Guess how much you provided?

None.
And with that, I think the debate is just about concluded.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185200       A blind medical study that concluded PRP has as much affect as a saline water injection in treating tendonitis...   which is what Nadal first used it for starting in 2009.

Here's part of an article that talks about PRP, Nadal, and also mentions the study, and some of the known doping investigations and doctors that were asscociated with PRP.. 


"Dr. Sanchez has written numerous articles, studies and case reports related to the benefits of PRP. These studies have received some criticism for the “lack of details concerning [url=http://www.udel.edu/PT/PT Clinical Services/journalclub/sojc/10-11/Jan/best prp clin j sports med.pdf]methodology, outcomes, and follow-up[/url].”
In fact, other independent researchers find PRP little more effective than an injection of saltwater (It might also be worth noting that Dr. Sanchez has a strong financial interest in this "technology," as he admits here: "As you probable are aware, we have been working with plasma rich in growth factors (PRGF®), the pioneer in autologous technologies, for more than a decade. Our first publication dates back to 2003 and PRGF® is one of the products, if not the product, that has been characterized more extensively in the literature, both clinically and biologically." It might also be noted that Dr. Sanchez was personally involved in getting this special treatment approved for Rafael Nadal, as he discusses in the same blog posting: "PRPs cannot be used in muscle injuries, but its use in tendinopathies is allowed after completing a TUE (Therapeutic Use Exemption) document. In fact, some representatives of the spanish anti-doping agency and the spanish olympic committee visited Dr. Eduardo Anitua´s research center in Vitoria, and granted us permission to use this treatment in this particular athlete [Nada]").
Over the past year, it has come out that this procedure is often used to mask doping. For example, recent revelations from the ongoing Spanish doping investigation known as Operation Galgo (Greyhound), show that the doctors involved were instructing athletes to fake joint injuries so that steroids could be injected intra-articularly.
Hopefully, more details will come out as Operation Galgo (Greyhound) continues. In the United States, PRP and doping were also linked when a Canadian doctor, Tony Galea, who performed the procedure on Tiger Woods, Dara Torres and many unnamed NBA players, was caught smuggling growth hormone into the country, presumably to “augment” the treatment in at least some of the athletes in question. Dr. Galea is also still under investigation. "


You should note that Galea was a pioneer in the procedure and Tiger Woods doctor and he's a known and convicted doping doctor and drug smuggler.  He's and some collegues who worked under his direction since he can't practice in the USA are now part of the Alex Rodriguez scandal- where MLB is banning Rodriguez for a record amount of games because he was found to be doping.

These are the type people who are performing your hallowed PRP treatments.... You honestly now think they weren't using it as part of a doping regimen?   Galea just a happens to be proven to be a doping doctor, a smuggler of HGH that he administrated to athletes in ways that they were able to pass tests for a long time, but you think he suddenly developed a conscious while performing the PRP treatments and didn't use the perfect masking attributes of it to hide HGH doping?   Are you still going to be that naïve?

Here's a short bio on that fellow:
"Galea was found carrying a stimulant that is banned by the Olympics when he arrived in Sydney during the 2000 Summer Olympics. He was never charged and was allowed to enter the country, but Australian customs seized his medical bag.[6]
In September, 2009 Galea's assistant was caught by U.S border agents with a duffel bag full of medical supplies and drugs as she attempted to cross the border near Buffalo.
On December 15, 2009, The New York Times and the Associated Press reported that Galea was the subject of a joint investigation by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Buffalo Field Office for allegedly providing elite athletes with performance enhancing drugs,[7] as well as criminal conspiracy.[8] The drugs were Actovegin (legal in Canada, but not the US) and human growth hormone.[7] Galea was arrested in Toronto on October 15, 2009 but never faced charges.[8]
Galea's confirmed clients include golfer Tiger Woods, Olympic medalists Dara Torres, Mark McCoy and Donovan Bailey,[7] NFL players Javon Walker, Santana Moss and Chris Simms,[7] and figure skater Patrick Chan.[9] Major League Baseball players Huston Street and John Patterson have also received treatment from Galea.[10] According to The New York Times, Galea visited Tiger Woods at his Orlando home at least four times in February and March 2009 to administer PRP—designed to speed recovery from injuries--,[11] and that Woods responded well to the treatment.[7]
On February 28, 2010, The New York Times reported that Galea treated New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez in March 2009 and that Rodriguez's rehabilitation from hip surgery was overseen by Dr. Mark Lindsay, an associate of Galea's.[12]
In the United States, Galea was charged with drug smuggling, conspiring to lie to federal agents, unlawful possession with intent to distribute and practising medicine without a licence. On July 6, 2011, Galea pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of bringing mislabelled drugs into the United States for the purpose of treating professional athletes.[13] As part of the plea agreement, he is required to cooperate with investigators and disclose the identities of his clients and their treatments.[13]
On December 16, 2011 Galea was sentenced to one year unsupervised release, and no accompanying jail time (above time already served, one day). He is not allowed to enter the United States without expressed permission from the US Department of Homeland Security.[14]"



Now the debate is over Amrit.. not when you say it is... because you are wrong...    And btw-- I said I was close to Ali, not his "best friend" as you exaggerate.  believe what you want about me..

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:43 pm

Dear me... if that's the best evidence you could find then the debate surely is over.
Not much substance over so many words... smh.

A blind medical study that concluded PRP has as much affect as a saline water injection in treating tendonitis...
There have also been many studies which showed it has a great effect in helping recover soft tissue. Considering that no new treatment will have 100% success rate, and studies many not have huge sample sizes it is expected for a few studies to throw caution to the advancements.
In this case, the study you provided, they themselves admitted that the study had limitations and flaws:
A limitation of our study is that the amount of platelets and the quantity of activated growth factors that were present in the PRP injections was unknown.... Another variable that may be of interest is the length of time that the platelets remain at the site after injection into the degenerative area. Platelets are slowly activated by exposure to tendon collagen,10 but it might be that due to the pressure within the tendon a large amount of PRP diffused rapidly out of the tendon, thereby reducing its effect... The lack of a group that received only a PRP injection without eccentric exercises may be regarded as another limitation of the study.

Meanwhile as I have said there are very positive reviews about it in medical journals, including the BMJ which is probably one of the most respected in the world.  
From this link: http://www.hemalifemedical.com/content/benefits-platelet-rich-plasma
Faster healing of incision sites
The growth factors in platelet-rich plasma accelerate the healing processes.  Because of this enhanced healing, wounds close more quickly, thereby reducing the risk of infections.  In addition, patients treated with platelet-rich plasma are able to resume normal activities sooner.


http://www.jockdoctors.com/page.asp?id=19&name=PRP%20-%20Platelet-Rich%20Plasma%20Therapy
This above link meanwhile puts the success rate of PRP injections at 80%... clearly then injured athletes would be inclined to give it a try and get their career back on track.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/sports/17blood.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&sq=platelet%20rich%20plasma%20and%20pittsburgh&st=cse&scp=1
This link has great detail:
The method, which is strikingly straightforward and easy to perform, centers on injecting portions of a patient’s blood directly into the injured area, which catalyzes the body’s instincts to repair muscle, bone and other tissue. Most enticing, many doctors said, is that the technique appears to help regenerate ligament and tendon fibers, which could shorten rehabilitation time and possibly obviate surgery.
“It’s a better option for problems that don’t have a great solution — it’s nonsurgical and uses the body’s own cells to help it heal,” said Dr. Allan Mishra, an assistant professor of orthopedics at Stanford University Medical Center and one of the primary researchers in the field. “I think it’s fair to say that platelet-rich plasma has the potential to revolutionize not just sports medicine but all of orthopedics. It needs a lot more study, but we are obligated to pursue this.”
Dr. Neal ElAttrache, the Los Angeles Dodgers’ team physician, used platelet-rich plasma therapy in July on a partially torn ulnar collateral ligament in the throwing elbow of pitcher Takashi Saito. Surgery would have ended Mr. Saito’s season and shelved him for about 10 to 14 months; he instead returned to pitch in the September pennant race without pain.
Platelet-rich plasma is derived by placing a small amount of the patient’s blood in a filtration system or centrifuge that rotates at high speed, separating red blood cells from the platelets that release proteins and other particles involved in the body’s self-healing process, doctors said. A teaspoon or two of the remaining substance is then injected into the damaged area. The high concentration of platelets — from 3 to 10 times that of normal blood — often catalyzes the growth of new soft-tissue or bone cells. Because the substance is injected where blood would rarely go otherwise, it can deliver the healing instincts of platelets without triggering the clotting response for which platelets are typically known.
“This could be a method to stimulate wound healing in areas that are not well-vascularized, like ligaments and tendons,” said Dr. Gerjo van Osch, a researcher in the department of orthopedics at Erasmus University Medical Center in the Netherlands.
Dr. Mishra said that he was particularly encouraged by PRP therapy’s effectiveness on chronic elbow tendinitis, or tennis elbow. For a 2006 study published by The American Journal of Sports Medicine, he used the treatment on 15 of 20 patients who were considering surgery; the five others received only anesthetic. Two months later, the patients receiving PRP therapy noted a 60 percent improvement in pain measurements, compared with 16 percent for the control group.
Dr. van Osch is performing a double-blind, randomized study on 54 patients with Achilles’ tendon injuries, while doctors in the United States, India, Sweden and elsewhere are performing formal trials on PRP therapy’s performance with rotator-cuff shoulder strains, partial knee-ligament tears and bone fractures. Studies also are examining PRP therapy’s possible use in conjunction with surgery, which a group in Spain used on Achilles’ tendon ruptures and found recovery time reduced.


Operation Galgo- did not find any evidence that PRP treatment was being used to mask doping. Steroids being injected intra-articularly is not PRP, not even close. Slightly clutching at straws there.

Dr. Galea- no evidence was found showing that he used PRP to mask doping.. none at all.
He was a man who was greedy for money, to some who were injured and needed treatment he used  PRP, to others who needed it he supplied HGH. The police found no evidence that the two events were connected, and you didn't provide any either.
And yes, I've read the life bio you provided which took up 200 lines... it has nothing to show a connection.

Overall there is no real sold evidence to show a connection between PRP and masking doping.
You have provided a study which the researchers themselves admit is flawed... meanwhile the majority of people in the scientific and medical community are seeing it as having great potential. I have provided a clear scientific study in the OP which shows scientifically how effective it can be if administered precisely, and it has received backing in several well respected medical journals such as the BMJ. Another respected medical website puts success rate at around 80%... of course with that figure it may be possible some trials emerge in which sample sizes are relatively small, thus it's impossible that all trials will be positive about the treatment... it is not always guaranteed to work.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:15 am

You just don't want to learn or have your eyes opened... sure Amerit.. Galea a convicted doping doctor played it straight only when he did the PRP treatments..that's beleivable.. clearly you don't know how to connect dots.   Believe your fairy tale..   

Keep throwing up the smokescreen that some think PRP is effective in treatment as if that somehow means anything to the question of whether it can also be used to mask doping. You even sidetracked me for a bit, so maybe it's working for you..  smh..

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:28 am

This is getting beyond embarrassing... your evidence is thin and straw clutching won't change that.

Dr. Galea is a doctor who administered PRP (although not to Nadal), as well as giving people HGH.
It's entirely possible, and highly likely, that this guy was after money- so for athletes with injuries he had PRP, and athletes who needed HGH he provided that.
It's not a question of legal/ illegal- infact I think there was a period where PRP was indeed illegal, before WADA launched a thorough investigation and overturned it.
There's absolutely nothing you have shown which suggests any connection at all between the two.

Keep throwing up the smokescreen that some think PRP is effective in treatment
Read my above post, it's not just 'some'. The well respected journal like the BMJ doesn't say that a treatment is revolutionary for sports medicine at whim. I've given a wide range of evidence in my above posts.

it can also be used to mask doping
What's funny is that you have not shown any real connection as to why it can mask doping Laugh
You even bizarrely started claiming that Operational Galgo's find that 'Steroids being injected intra-articularly' is anything to do with PRP- which it simply isn't. Galgo did not find any connection between PRP use and masking doping, and nor have you even written that.

This effort gets more and more laughable as we go along TRuffin, maybe it is time to give up your hatred of Nadal.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:19 am

Nadal-butt wiping Fed hating fanatic and his pathetic life... Laugh

That head is under a Nadal love-cocoon. He can't understand a thing. His thought process is sealed. All he can do is deny and refuse. For him and his specie, every single thing is possible in the world, except Nadal's lying and dope. Bloody Morons. Laugh

He has reached so high levels of idiocy, he has become embarrassment even for Nadal fans.  BTW That option of jumping into a river is still open. Go do it now Laugh

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:37 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:
it can also be used to mask doping
What's funny is that you have not shown any real connection as to why it can mask doping Laugh
You even bizarrely started claiming that Operational Galgo's find that  'Steroids being injected intra-articularly' is anything to do with PRP- which it simply isn't. Galgo did not find any connection between PRP use and masking doping, and nor have you even written that.

This effort gets more and more laughable as we go along TRuffin, maybe it is time to give up your hatred of Nadal.
Is your reading comprehension that low that you don't realize that it wasn't me who was claiming anything about Operational Galgo?  See the quotes I put around it? It's an exerpt from an article.........    and the author is not saying it's PRP, just part of the broader doping actions of these doctors..

Judging from the pms I'm getting laughting at you, I'd say it's you who have embarressed yourself..  IF it's time for me to give up this made up by you hatred of Nadal so that I am less biased in your eyes, then it would be fair for you to give up this insane blind love for Nadal so maybe you would be less biased and see the truth.  Doping is rampant and in many forms in the sport and all sports, and Nadal is one of many players that dope. I know it, the organizers, managers know it, and his fans know it-- you just choose to ignore it.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:53 pm

It's an exerpt from an article......... and the author is not saying it's PRP, just part of the broader doping actions of these doctors..
Irrelevant of who has written it... it has nothing to do with PRP treatment.

Judging from the pms I'm getting laughting at you, I'd say it's you who have embarressed yourself..

LOL. How 'embarressed' I am.
Who wrote these PMs?
SR? ROTLA? Laugh
These people are even more rabid and fantatical in their hatred of Nadal than you are, not getting their support is a compliment to me.

I know it, the organizers, managers know it, and his fans know it-- you just choose to ignore it.
Yes the Queen and Ali themselves know it too.
Your lack of evidence is what is embarrassing, I've given you ample opportunity and you could not find one real connection between PRP and doping.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by summerblues on Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:15 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:That is my last post on this topic
Three more posts and counting.

truffin1 wrote:I will make this my last statement on the matter in this thread.
Likewise.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:09 pm

summerblues wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:That is my last post on this topic
Three more posts and counting.

truffin1 wrote:I will make this my last statement on the matter in this thread.
Likewise.
Thanks for reeling me in Summer...  It's just hard not to respond the craziness..  I'll no longer visit the thread so as not to be tempted :-)

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by summerblues on Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:22 pm

BTW, truffin, I really enjoyed your long post from Thursday.

Irrespective of the details on whether an athlete may or may not be doping (which I do not want to get into), I thought it summed up very nicely how - in general, exceptions notwithstanding -  life and people function. And not only in the world of sport.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:52 pm

Yes great post Truffin....the Thursday one.

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