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Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

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Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:29 pm

Rafael Nadal has come into the spotlight once again for his use of PRP therapy, which is legal according to the WADA rules.
Firstly it must be noted, that he is not the only big name athlete to use it- Tiger Woods used it for treating (successfully) his knee injury. There are also many other athletes across the sport- and they have public said so too.

Secondly, PRP has been shown to be extremely beneficial in treating tissue injuries.
This is a fantastic scientific article, which shows the key points as to why PRP is used by so many and is so effective:
http://www.falloplastica.net/fp/pdf/prp05.pdf
It is very long, so I've just picked out an extract. I would recommend anyone interested in reading it totally.

How Does PRP Work?
PRP works via the degranulation of the  granules
in platelets, which contain the synthesized and prepackaged
growth factors. The active secretion of
these growth factors is initiated by the clotting process
of blood and begins within 10 minutes after
clotting. More than 95% of the presynthesized growth
factors are secreted within 1 hour.2 Therefore, PRP
must be developed in an anticoagulated state and
should be used on the graft, flap, or wound, within 10
minutes of clot initiation. Studies that have not used
anticoagulated whole blood, which is then clotted to
activate the PRP, are not really studies of PRP and
therefore are misleading. Related to this, PRP has
been shown to remain sterile and the concentrated
platelets viable for up to 8 hours once developed in
the anticoagulated state and placed on a sterile surgical
table. Like most growth factors such as bone
morphogeneic protein (BMP) and similar to collagen,
the growth factors within the  granules of platelets
are incomplete because they must be soluble. As the
clotting process activates the platelets, the growth
factors are secreted from the cell through the cell
membrane. In this process, the  granules fuse to the
platelet cell membrane where the protein growth
factor is completed to a bioactive state by the addition
of histones and carbohydrate side chains to these
proteins. Therefore, platelets damaged or rendered
nonviable by PRP processing will not secrete bioactive
growth factors and may result in disappointing
outcomes.
The secreted growth factors immediately bind to
the external surface of cell membranes of cells in the
graft, flap, or wound via transmembrane receptors.
Studies have shown that adult mesenchymal stem
cells, osteoblasts, fibroblasts, endothelial cells, and
epidermal cells express the cell membrane receptors
to growth factors in PRP.1 These transmembrane receptors
in turn induce an activation of an endogenous
internal signal protein, which causes the expression
of (unlocks) a normal gene sequence of the cell such
as cellular proliferation, matrix formation, osteoid
production, collagen synthesis, etc. The importance
of this knowledge is that the PRP growth factors
never enter the cell or its nucleus, they are not mutagenic,
and they act through the stimulation of normal
healing, just much faster.
Does PRP Really Work?
The vast majority of publications report a significant
enhancement of healing when PRP is used. Some
of these publications that report positive results in
either or both bone and soft tissue healing are Marx et
al,1 with autogenous mandibular bone grafts; Garg,8
with composites of autogenous bone grafts and bone
substitutes in sinus lifts and other surgeries; Man et
al,9 with cosmetic surgeries; Adler and Kent,10 specifically
with face lift surgeries; Camargo et al,11 with
intrabony periodontal defects; Kim et al,12 with periimplant
defects; Kassolis et al,13 with freeze-dried
bone allografts in sinus lift surgeries; Abuzeni and
Alexander,14 with cosmetic dermal fat grafts; and
Monteleone et al,15 with skin graft healing enhancement.
These studies document the observed enhancement
of bone regeneration as well as the enhancement
of soft tissue healing. However, there have also
been publications that concluded that there was little
or no benefit from PRP: Froum et al,16 with sinus lift
grafts; Aghaloo et al,17 with cranial defects in rabbits;
and Shanaman et al,18 in ridge augmentations together
with demineralized freeze-dried bone allografts. How
does the reader then reconcile these apparently conflicting
publications? The best way is to review the
level of science each publication represents, assessing
the quality of PRP used in each study and the controls
used.
If the reader analyzes some of the aforementioned
articles, they see that articles purporting little benefit
from PRP often do not use real PRP, use damaged
platelets, may have not activated the platelets, or have
statistically insufficient data to draw a valid conclusion.
An example is the article by Froum et al.16 This
study included only 3 patients and introduced multiple
independent variables to confound their results.
One patient received only anorganic bovine bone and
a BioGide membrane (Luitpold/Osteohealth, Shirley,
NY) with PRP; another patient received anorganic
bovine bone with 5% autogenous bone, a BioGide
membrane, and PRP; and the third received only anorganic
bovine bone and a Gore-Tex membrane (W.L.
Gore and Associates, Flagstaff, AZ) with PRP. In 1
case, immediate “test” implants were also placed that
were not placed in the other 2. In addition, this study
reported using “a large draw Metronic unit” (Tempe,
AZ) and did not test the platelet concentrations as in
other studies. Although studies such as this are often
referenced and quoted as showing little PRP benefit,
their conclusions cannot be accepted as valid, particularly
if judged against the studies by Marx et al,1 in
which 88 patients were used with strict controls; by
Adler and Kent,10 in which 20 patients were used
with split side controls and platelet counts were documented;
in Camargo et al,11 in which 18 patients
were used with identical techniques and materials in
a split mouth design; and in Monteleone et al,15 in
which 20 patients were used in a side-by-side, same
patient–control design of skin graft donor sites. All of
these studies concluded a profound enhancement by
PRP.
Another study often quoted or referenced as showing
little benefit from PRP is the study by Aghaloo et
al.17 Their study used non–critical-sized defects in the
New Zealand White rabbit model. Their results
showed no benefit of PRP alone in the defect but
actually showed significant enhancement when PRP
was combined with autogenous bone compared with
autogenous bone alone. This finding is consistent
with those of Marx et al,1 Garg,8 and others and is
actually a study supporting the use of PRP if read in its
entirety.
This is a video explaining it in less detail.
A few months after this video, WADA finished their thorough review and decided that PRP treatment was legal.



Last edited by Julia Santamaria on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:44 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:12 pm

Nadal did say it worked very well in 2009 and 2010, but not very well in 2013.
That's interesting, clearly as good as the treatment is it does not have 100% cure rate (but to be fair, which healing treatments do?).

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:22 am

You really don't get it do you? or you pretend you don't..

PRP is now legal--and therefore if you just have the PRP performed as it's meant to be-- that's fine.. BUT-  athletes have and do use it to mask doping.... which is not legal..    Anyone in the know understands this, pure logic tells us this, the results and who uses it tells us this.

Using studies or articles that are created or influenced by those pushing PRP is fine, but shows your continued naivety. It's far from proven, certainly was considered just something to try that may or may not work when I was around athletes who had it performed.  Somehow though- it works miracles on certain athletes. 

I'm not sure if you are truly naïve as to what goes on behind the scenes in sports, or just blinded by your Nadal fanaticism, or intellectually dishonest with yourself and others due to that fanaticism, or just playing a game... but your continued pure belief that few dope, that having cameras follow a person proves they have nothing to hide is becoming comical.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:00 am

another comical post by amritia(JS). You purposely choose to be stupid/naive because this allows you to enjoy your fav player without the guilt of having to support a Doper/liar/Cheat.

You are a strange being indeed.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:59 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
You are a strange being indeed.
Absolutely not ROTLA.
Nadal has in the past used legal techniques to try and recover from injury- I am proud of that and hope that others whose careers are blighted by injury can be helped by this method/

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:10 am

What a ludicrous post TRuffin.

If anyone has shown signs of irrational and fanaticism- look no further than the likes of you and others on this forum.
Nadal has had a very successful year in 2013, a very bitter pill to swallow for Nadal haters. Most of these Nadal hating fanatics are filled with hate because Rafael Nadal has such a convincing Head2Head record against Roger Federer. 
With every match Nadal wins, especially every time he beats Roger Federer (who has many fanatic fans on this forum), the hatred and anger and jealousy grows in the hearts of the haters.

In this article I have shown how PRP does have a very strong case, and this is shown by science and fact. I highly doubt either you or ROTLA have read even the extract of the PDF, because you don't want to hear it.
I mean watch the video, we have an example of a player we can see severly damaged his knee when tackled, and used PRP to come back 2 weeks later. This has shown it can be effective in many cases, and the scientific theory backs this up. How else do you suppose the person in the video, who we can see damaged his knee, got back? PRP, that's the answer.

Even though this is legal and allowed by WADA, and the benefits of using this to recover from injuries are clear and scientifically shown, the Nadal haters will strain every sinue to make it seem like Nadal is in the wrong.
Pretty pathetic and sad stuff.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:29 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
You are a strange being indeed.
Absolutely not ROTLA.
Nadal has in the past used legal techniques to try and recover from injury- I am proud of that and hope that others whose careers are blighted by injury can be helped by this method/
Proud? Who do you think you are amritia? U act like you are morally and legally and in every possible way responsible/accountable for Nadal and his actions/wins/losses/success. You feel the responsibility to defend him.

Injury?? I proved entirely how he lied about his injury last year. Clean and crystal proof. You can't see it because this will bring you to reality and your disillusioned world of being proud of Nadal will vanish. Of course no one would want to be proud of a liar.

Its easier for you to believe Nadal's use of 'legal' techniques and completely turn a blind eye to the fact that those 'legal' techniques have been and will be used to mask the illegal ones. Very convenient indeed.


Nadal in every manner looks a Doped player. He always did. But you are too blind to see it. 


You have all the makings of a strange being. You love calling everyone Nadal hatahs huh? Now this one is on you. Keep it.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:31 am

Raiders can I see this proof please? I must have missed it, but im intrigued smiley

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:07 pm

You feel the responsibility to defend him.
I feel the need to defend what is true, and what our vicious accusations by people who hate him.


Injury?? I proved entirely how he lied about his injury last year.
Proved to who? Proved to  yourself? Proved it to other fanatics who wake up every day just in hope they hear that Nadal is a doper?
In reality you haven't proved anything at all.
The way Nadal plays, as I have said before, means that going through a decade of top level tennis without a serious severe injury to his knee is unlikely... if not basically impossible.
He twists he turns, gets amazing returns; but this all puts a massive strain on his knee.
I've spoken to a top level Orthopedic Specialist  and he confirmed that given what Nadal puts his knee through, it is very possible if not likely that Nadal would run into a combination of knee problems including tendonitis and Hoffa's syndrome. He also confirmed that it is very possible for Nadal for a few hours to put strain on the knee (and we know he did do some activities which may have done so), but over longer periods of training and tennis it would feel very uncomfortable and thus he wouldn't be able to move so well that is required for tennis at the top level .


Nadal in every manner looks a Doped player.
You know which manner you are talking about?
I'll tell you the manner which you refer to. It's the manner he has constantly defeated Federer, the fact he can do it so comfortably even in the biggest stages such as Grand Slams. That really hurts the Nadal hating fanatics, who simply can't control their anger and rage.
In this fit of constant fury, they will ignore the scientific evidence behind the effectiveness of PRP. I have shown an example in the video of a player damaging his knee when tackled to come back 2 weeks later with the knee repaired... PRP clearly can work well. Given that Nadal has knee problems, PRP is legal, and can work effectively- what exactly is wrong with him trying to use it?
You know what's wrong? It's the fact he comes back and is successful, the fact he wins Grand Slams, and more than all for the Federer loving Nadal hating fanatics- it's the fact he can beat Federer.
That's what is wrong.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:13 pm

luvsports! wrote:Raiders can I see this proof please? I must have missed it, but im intrigued smiley
Sure here it goes. Orginally posted on the thread: http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t192-has-nadal-unofficialy-retired


Nadal's comments about his knee condition at RG 2012 in this interview which was after his withdrawing from Olypics:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2208011/Rafael-Nadal-interview-struggle-injury.html

"At Roland Garros I had to play with anti-inflammatories to get through."


Nadal interview in December when he said he is still not fit and don't see being back before March 2013.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/rafael-nadal-does-not-expect-to-be-fully-fit-before-march/311971-5-22.html

"The last tournament I played in good shape was Roland Garros and I won it."


See now. These 2 statements are completely contradictory. In fact during these months Nadal and his camp kept on giving very contradictory/paradoxical statements about his Knees, his injury and his time of return. 

These are all signs of a liar. Now decide yourself. Unless u are a proud fan like Amritia, its not hard to understand Nadal and his camp.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Interesting. Thanks Raiders.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:26 pm

Is that really the best 'proof' you could find?

It's entirely possible that Nadal needed anti-inflammatories to get in good shape for the RG, but after that the injury got so severe that even with anti-inflammatories it was painful.

As for his knee injury diagnosis, read my above post, I have spoken to an Orthopedic Specialist and it does indeed add up. Furthermore given his style of play, it is actually unlikely that his knee wouldn't get seriously injured as it did within a decade.
In terms of the 'time of return'- if a player said 'I'm coming back on the 24th November' or something like that, then it WOULD be suspicious. With these injuries, it is very difficult to get an accurate timescale, even the best doctors cannot guarentee anything for a certain date. So what happened there with Nadal not knowing the exact timescale, actually makes sense.

So there we go, you have no proof or leg to stand on whatsoever.
The scientific evidence to how PRP works is clear, WADA says it is legal; it is time for the desperate Nadal hating fanatics to try and find a new line to twist so that they can attack the Spaniard.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:34 pm

JS. Raiders does have a point, one that you certainly have not dispelled, you have just espoused your take on it and have once again defended rafa to the hilt. This 

A lot of this is hypothetical. It isn't as black and white as you are saying it is, with the shroud of doping it never is.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:38 pm

Raiders said he had proved something, which he hadn't.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:42 pm

He showed it was a contradiction of statements. You then offered a possible reason as to why this was the case, which is no "proof" whatsoever. 
Raiders "proof" seems more legit with substance than your view.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:47 pm

Are you aware of how 'proof' works?
ROTLA said he had proved Nadal said two contradictory statements (also somehow meant he was not injured).
I then showed a situation where Nadal's two statements make sense (how anti-inflammatories could have kept him in good shape for RG), thus meaning that ROTLA's comment is not a proof at all and the comments aren't actually contradictory.

Pretty simple really, whether you see it as 'legit' or not is irrelevant.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:54 pm

Are you aware of how proof works? Again you are just saying what MIGHT have happened, whereas rotla has two contradictory statements from nadal. This is not truth at all, this is just your subjective opinion.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by SayonaRa on Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:55 pm

@Julia 11:10

C’mon amrit, you know that TRuffin is a well-respected poster in BR and also V2, where he has always supported his views appropriately with relevant information he learnt from his long-term personal contacts and experiences.
 
And what about you amrit? What you got? First thing first. Based only on the fact that your favorite game-plan is trying to bluff and trick fellow posters time and again by changing your ids, are you not the “pathetic and sad” one with no credibility?
 
And by boasting “In this article I have shown how PRP does have a very strong case….” you still don’t have credibility. I don’t know if TRuffin or raider have read your PRP stuff in support of nadal. But who are you kidding? Do you still expect to be taken seriously when you post suspicious material typically lacking in credibility that’s designed solely to defend the indefensible and cover nadal up as a confirmed doper?

Your tireless agenda motivated purely by your infatuation with the accused is just not enough to defend a prime doping suspect with a long and confirmed history of cheating on and off court, I’m afraid.
 
Don’t tell me the thought never occurred to you that Raphael Nadal is the product of a sports culture in Spain where doping was legal and openly practiced not too many years ago. You must also know that because of this type of accepted foul play in the past, Spain may lose to Tokyo for its 2020 Olympic bid. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/08/olympic-games-2020-tokyo-madrid-istanbul
 
The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, you know that too. Given nadal’s background and THE DESTROYED BLOOD BAGS, it would have been surprising if he is NOT a suspect. Of course, you’re free to engage in your own fantasy and delusions to the contrary. But don’t attack others for simply shedding further light on the darkness and ugliness of nadal’s tennis, already out in the open since 2006. My underlying point is that TRuffin and others here are not saying anything new or very different from those old and new nadal negatives voiced in the following
 
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/curious-case-of-rafael-nadal.html
 
http://www.tennisfrontier.com/blogs/masterclass/the-curious-case-of-rafael-nadals-absence-and-incredible-comeback-continues/
 
http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2011/06/rafael_nadal_and_the_dark_art.html
 
In the light of powerful circumstantial evidence, I believe that nadal doped in the past and this year only managed to regain #1 with the help of PEDs. Only when I hear from the responsible authority declaring the result of ALL of nadal’s  passed drug test as being positive will I change my view.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by SayonaRa on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:04 pm

@ TRuffin

Good post, but don't waste it on amrit. You know what I mean.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by SayonaRa on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:07 pm

@ raiders,

Good post too. I remember those extreme nadal inconsistencies. It 's actually very embarrassing how he flip-flopped so carelessly and even more funny how his fans just can't see it when typical big fat nadal lies are thrown in their faces.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:28 pm

luvsports! wrote:Are you aware of how proof works? Again you are just saying what MIGHT have happened, whereas rotla has two contradictory statements from nadal. This is not truth at all, this is just your subjective opinion.
No, the whole point is you only need to find one example to disprove a hypothesis.
Nadal's two statements are not 'proven' to be contradictory- because I have shown a very possible way it is not contradictory.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:39 pm

SR- another Nadal hating fanatic who loves Federer.
Of course you will say you and your other Nadal hating fanatics have credibility, a bit like how everyone at inforwars.com think Alex Jones has credibility, a bit like how Daily Mail columnists will all believe they each of them are credible. Nonsensical and frankly embarrassing.
Unlike you, I don't base my argument on persuaing people falsely on credibility, instead I have provided scientific facts and evidence. To sum up:

-PRP treatment is legal.
-The Scientific documents I have provided show the science behind it and why it has proved to be effective for regeneration of soft tissue.
-Many top athletes have used it for treatment, the video link I provided had an example of a player who severely injured his knee in a tackle (the tackle and injury itself is shown); and then came back within 2 weeks due to the success of PRP treatments.
-So why should Nadal not use it?

Unfortunately you SR, like your friends who you call credible, are so desperate to down that Nadal that you will ignore any scientific evidence to show how effective the treatment is. The reason behind this hatred of Nadal is the fact he can beat Federer so often and in Grand Slams, people like you are furious enraged and so angry that you will ignore the science and the fact that PRP is legal and allowed according to WADA.
Not a surprising response from the fanatics, infact it's more embarrasing and humiliating than normal (something pretty impressive to achieve given the low level of logic and evidence shown usually).


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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:39 pm

Just saying Raiders, SR, Truffin - What are your views on the likes of Djoko, murray and feds taking drugs?
Or is this dislike just directed at nadal?

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:41 pm

Luvsports- one of the only Federer fans on this forum who is relatively fair on Nadal and has balance.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:45 pm

Thanks JS.
I always try to main objective as possible and although I suspect Nadal among others are on drugs, i do not have that proof. 

My mantra is "more research must be done!"

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:46 pm

Not a bad mantra to have Winking

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:57 pm

Thumbs Up 
Btw I like the fact that we differ in opinion. What is the point of agreeing on everything?

One of my fave polemics Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P), when questioned what he would think if religion ceased to exist he responded (paraphrasing), "No because then I would have nobody left to debate with!" Winking

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:01 pm

Indeed LS Thumbs Up

When it comes to atheism though, I always followed Dawkins more than C.Hitchens. Not sure why, on youtube I watched Dawkins debating so much, especially against really entrenched American Christians lol.
Recently though I have been following Peter Hitchens, brother of Christopher. He's fun to watch- sometimes I 100% agree with him (on legalisation of drugs), but sometimes not (Christianity, guns etc.)

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:02 pm

In the recent Daily Mail- Miliband frenzy, Peter Hitchens was the only columnist from the Mail on Sunday or Daily Mail to back Ralph Miliband at all. Although to be fair he did it quite subtly, Dacre and Rothermere would probably ensure he was fired if he had criticised the Mail directly.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:07 pm

Peter, though incredibly bright, is a shadow of Christopher, most would say as much.
Dawkins doesn't quite have the polemical skills as Hitchens. I don';t like the fact he is fronting the atheist movement where denton, harris among others are more effective at countering fundamentalist stances.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:14 pm

In that case I will watch a bit more of Christopher.
I saw a few clips of him and he seemed to be a tad sexist so I didn't watch much more- but I will check out more from Utube.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:48 pm

Amritia you are so pathetic, I actually pity you man. You are so moronically idiotically stupid to the core, its almost unbelievable that you are an adult. Such a shame. Remember what I once told you to do ... ya that one.. jump into a river thing..  I won't say it now. You are a totally different specie on earth, you must be preserved. 

Every possible thing can happen, except Nadal's doping. ha ha.. Its so stupid a thought, I don't even like to argue on this.

I knew what will you say when I posted my contradictory statements from Nadal. 

You see, you are exactly what you accuse everyone here. You say that everyone is a Nadal hater, but the only 'hater' here is YOU. Yes YOU. You hate the fact that your favourite player is a Doper, Liar, Cheat, Bully. You hate it so so much that, it burns your soul the moment anyone even brings it up. You mind has become so narrow, you just can't think anything else. 

You label people as Nadal hatahs. You feel accountable for Nadal, so much that you think yourself as his personal defender. Its funny the way you behave.


Look at yourself at least once, you'll know how right I'm about you.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:50 pm

This stuff really gets us nowhere.

Raiders did you see my question re feds, djoko and murray doping? Thoughts?

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:13 pm

You are so moronically idiotically stupid to the core
You've lost the debate, you've lost your nerve, your anger; and quite simply: the plot.

I knew what will you say when I posted my contradictory statements from Nadal.

Well they weren't necessarily contradictory, it's possible someone can be in good shape after they have anti-inflmmatories.

Remember what I once told you to do ... ya that one.. jump into a river thing..

Yes indeed I remember that, a vile insult from someone who is sick and twisted to say that to another human being.

Look at yourself at least once, you'll know how right I'm about you.
I take it as a compliment, what you say, what SR says, what the other Nadal hating fanatics say.
Infact if you didn't think I had lost credibility/ was not talking sense- then that for me would be a very bad moment.
You are all Nadal haters who are desperate to prove he is a doper, so desperate and full of hate it has taken over your life; hence the sick comments which you now yourself have admitted to saying.
I am a Nadal fan, but I like many other top players too. I don't really dislike any player- maybe apart from Janowicz who comes across as too arrogant. I admit that it is possible that Nadal, or any other player, may be doping- to be frank we don't have 100% proof either way.
In this instance however, it's clear that PRP is both pretty effective and legal way of treatment- so there's no reason for him not to try it out and help him heal.

Of course no, these facts, the science, the fact that WADA experts have passed it as legal, means nothing to you. Consumed by hate and jealousy of Rafael Nadal, you've lost the plot.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:48 pm

That’s the classic Nadal fanatic answer defense to everything-  it must be a Federer fan jealous that Nadal has a better H2H…. .please…  Every one of your answers- when your back is agianst the wal............ "H2H, Nadal is better than Federer!, H2H"  smh... Let’s clear this up for you--    when I come on here and talk about these things, I’m just not talking about Nadal and I’m certainly not talking about him and others from a bias Federer fan slant.  Federer is inarguably one of the few greatest players to ever play the sport, he’s arguably the greatest player to ever play the sport.  Nothing, no loss, no H2H to anyone including Nadal can change that.  It means nothing to me as a fan whether Nadal  surpasses Federer in any way- that doesn’t change my love for the Federer style, the Federer demeanor.  IF Federer ends up being called the 5th best player ever—I could care less-  my view would be how incredible just to be the 5th best of anything in the history of that endeavor.  I am personal friends, worked with someone who most consider a Goat of his sport, and I don’t even view him as the best ever of that sport.  At the same time I have no problem recongnizing that Nadal is the greatest clay courter ever and in the argument (though right now on the fringe of it) as being one of the very few all time all around greats…   I may feel he’s gotten to that point in a different way through technology and medicine, but that’s what his sport allowed and he’s also not the only one.. In fact, you could argue that the majority of who he’s competing  against are doing the same things, so his results still have relevance. The same argument that Barry Bonds uses, the same that Armstrong uses… “we all doped, so I was just on an even playing field as the others and still beat them, was the best”  I don't agree with that line of reasoning, but some use it. Does that make any of it right, no

You are so slanted in your bias and lack of knowledge, you simply cannot see the big picture or refuse to. You just see everything as it pertains to defending Nadal.   Just use a bit of logic,  a bit of understanding into human nature. I can take it to a basic level for you… Take 200 young men in their late teens to early 30’s…  200 men from a church, 200 men from a college, 200 men from a business, 2oo men from a government—within those 200 men there will be some that are fantastic human beings, some that are jerks, some that cheat for gain, some that lie, some steal, some that will stab you in the back.. It doesn’t matter where you go- 200 men or human beings- there are going to be a substantial portion of them that will do anything for personal gain- especially when it comes down to money...  Now take 200 men in any sport- tennis for our  argument- where they are now competing for more money in a year than most people make in a lifetime, competing for glory where people throw pure love at them, competing for a lifestyle that includes trips with billionaires, the most gorgeous woman in the world in their beds at night;  and you or anyone actually think that those 200 men are somehow different than any other 200 men in the world—that they aren’t doing everything they can both legal and illegal to gain an edge?  On top of that add in all the pressure from managers, coaches, governments to be the best and make the most money.  Let’s be real…   The purity of sports and athletes is a great utopic concept- but it’s a joke. They are human beings and they are doing EVERYTHING they can do win, and for many that includes cheating.  It happens in every single walk of life and it happens in tennis.  From top to bottom.

Heck, if I’m being real- I was a part of that.. certainly not involved from a decision of whether to do so or not, never a part of the actual process…but I would absolutely be lying if I said I didn’t know clients who were doping, cheating, fixing matches, doing drugs, cheating on their wives…    Was it my place to be a whistleblower and expose them---  hell no- should I?- hell no.. It might make me a hypocrite but I’m not a fool.. I wouldn’t destroy my livelihood, my family’s future to scream to the world that the all American athlete that I just negotiated an endorsement contract for is back at his hotel room cheating on his wife and snorting cocaine.  Certianly, you won’t see any ATP officials doing so. I was once in the owners box of an NFL team owner during a game and one of the most beloved players in the world was out on the field playing poorly…sluggish and slow..   Someone made a remark about it and the owner turns and says while holding up his hand in the sign for italics “surprise” testing next week- our docs want him to clean out his system until it’s over, we’ll take a week of bad”  This is in front of reporters, executives, and not one word was ever leaked.  I saw stuff like this all the time.   PRP Testing—I thought about it last night- I can count 12 clients that I knew used the treatment in it’s early days before I retired.  It was seen as nothing more than something to try- couldn’t hurt, might help.. I also know for a fact that several of those guys used it to get exemptions for elevated level of HGH.   That’s still the case now. Videos, examples of it working..lol.. again- pure naivety.  I can show you videos of people who sincerely believe that the televangelist who is now in jail for tax evasion “healed” them of an incurable disease. I can show you tests on every failed drug or medicine that ever made it to market that showed real improvements and results in whatever they were supposed to help. Every treatment that has ever been debunked, has people who will swear it worked.  I had a good friend who was diagnosed with a nearly incurable blood disease and told that the experimental treatment he was going to take was just to prolong his life by a couple of months and there was virtually no chance that he would be cured after months of the treatment.  After two treatments, my friend claims he fell in the shower and started praying to God for the 1st time in his life..   2 weeks later- doctors told him that he was completely cured—a miracle and my friend has devoted the rest of his life to speaking about the miracle of prayer. Was it a misdiagnosis, a one in a million result from the treatment, a miracle from God? No one knows… but he will swear up and down he was healed in the shower.   My point being- we can find someone who can swear and show good results for anything.

What I do know- is my knowledge, real world experience, pure logic tells me that a number of players in any sport are cheating.  If you can open your eyes from the blindness of your devotion to one player, you can start to understand this. With that basic knowledge in  hand- then you have to understand that many we will see no signs of it, and some we will…   Logic also tells us where there is smoke there is fire. I have never known one widespread rumor about any public figure that wasn’t true whether known behind the scenes or finally exposed to the public.. not one—whether it be doping, sexuality, wearing a toupee, infidelity…nothing…   When I look at the group of players- I know some that I am sure are doping, some that I suspect, and some that I have no idea… but no one is 100 % cleared because I know better. I’ve been around fantastic wonderful people who cheated for gain.  In Nadals case specifically-  With my knowledge, what I hear, what is out there in the public- I also know he is from a country with a history of cheating, whose government secretly and openly has pushed it’s athletes to skirt the rules of their sport for glory, who comes from a country who ruling upper and middle class has for hundreds of years had a motto and cultural belief that “personal gain through trickery or deception is to be admired” – anyone who has spent time in spain and other similar countries knows this in ingrained in their culture. I can look and see that that his team around him and he himself will break many rules openly for gain. I can see the clear patterns of ups and downs over many years that coincide with what we all know are doping cycles. I can see what he can and can’t do at times.  I have been around scores of athtletes in boxing, baseball, football with the most minor patella tendon tears to severe ones and not one of those atheletes was ever able to heal without an immediate locking of the leg in a straight position. That’s the only position a patella can heal and also not cause horrible pain—no matter how minor.  I know of guys who were back playing in 3 weeks- that’s how minor the injury was- but had their leg immobilized for 2 weeks.. yet we have Nadal caught secretly by paparazzi  jet sking, climbing up ladders out of the ocean some 30 feet up, jumping from that same height into the ocean, running and frolicking with a smile on his face- less than a week after he says he tore his tendon!?  Come on.. 

In a sense it’s great you have blind devotion to a player, that you have a naïve view of the world that you think cameras following a player somehow shows they don’t dope, but it’s not realistic. I don’t mean to belittle you, but the sum of your credentials is a volunteer writer for a bleacher report want to be that has novice writers starting in high school whose bios says things like “I am a senior in highschool and just love to watch tennis” writing the most mindnumbingly basic articles that read like a homework assignment in creative writing class.  That and a blind love for Nadal is where you are coming from.. .and your views are simply incorrect in the real world.   


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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:56 pm

luvsports! wrote:Just saying Raiders, SR, Truffin - What are your views on the likes of Djoko, murray and feds taking drugs?
Or is this dislike just directed at nadal?
As I try to make clear in my big post above.. no one is above suspicion.  Nadal is the one most focus on and suspect because the signs are clearer than most, the rumors are rampant behind the scenes for those around it, and the rumors are made public.. so most threads about doping center on him.. Then when someone like myself comes on and tries to expose the sport as a whole- all the Nadal fans see is me ripping into him.   I have no doubt he dopes.. all the signs are there, but I am also sure that others at the top do to..   I will say this and I include Federer---  I have never known one top athlete in the modern era that didn't at least go to the limits of what was allowed in his/her sports..   In otherwords- if an allowable level if HGH or a supplement is .10... every single one that has the means and organization around them would take their levels to .099999...  Just within the limits...    So they all are on something to help endurance, recovery, performance Including Federer......... it's those that then go above and beyond what is allowed and try to hide it that are the cheaters.

There are of course bias and slants towards everything, but some of this blind faith in a guy like Nadal- where he's from, his behavior, what we can see is just comical. I once had a huge Nadal fan on Bleacher tell me he couldn't possibly be doping because he cheats out in the open with his coaching, time wasting. They freely admitted he broke rules but since he did so out in the open and didn't try to hide it- it must mean he would never do anything in secret as well..  Just nonsense...  

Guys- we're fans of a sport, of players-  we gravitate towards certain people for countless reasons.   Just don't be so blind and elevate these guys beyond what they are.  Human beings with all the human faults trying to do anything they can for unfathomable riches and glory.  Many of them are clean, many of them dope.. Some of the clean guys are probably flaming jerks in real life, some of the dopers are probably really nice guys--- that's reality..  but don't think because someone comes off as a nice guy that they wouldn't dare cheat.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by SayonaRa on Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:05 pm

LS, to answer the same question above, I agree with TRuffin that no player is above suspicion, not even Fed. But in Fed’s case, he’s obviously not taking PEDs because he’s just not showing the unreal confidence boost, which often happens only with the use of PEDs . On the other hand, Nadal’s become the prime suspect because all the circumstantial implications point to him. 
 
Do you know of any of another player who’s paid a fine for illegal on-court coaching? That’s cheating in broad daylight to gain unfair advantage over his opponent and nadal admitted his guilt because he didn’t protest against the charge.
 
Have you heard of any player, past or present, running to the loo purposefully trying to disrupt his opponent’s momentum while the opponent is just about to serve for the match? Again, that’s nadal’s unique brand of foul play and specialty that he has no qualms performing in broad daylight. I believe Djoko doped in 2011 but the signs are significantly reversed after that. But I cannot associate Fed, Djoko or Murray with on-court foul play on an equal level with nadal simply because I haven’t witness these 3 or others knowingly breaking the rules to give themselves an unfair advantage over their opponent. I have only noticed a very clear-cut and unmistakable cycling up and down pattern in nadal. Always win-win-win first part of the year and lose-lose-lose the later part. How do his knees know to behave only up until USO?
 
Elsewhere,I’m sure you know all about nadal’s other outrageous gamesmanship on court. Even a very staunch nadal supporter recently admitted that nadal gets all the attention simply because he’s the one breaking all the rules in the book. My point is a very simple and universal one: once a thief is caught with his hand in the cookie jar in broad daylight, I’m almost certain this same thief will only attempt to steal something much more and far bigger when no body is watching. Once a crook, always a crook. People direct negativities to a crooked player justifiably because he himself flaunts his crookedness and invites all the attention. So the question for you is to ask amrit why she attacks TRuffin, raider and me, when all we do is just extending our responses to nadal’s display of crookedness, accordingly?
 
And it has nothing to do with me being a jealous “Fed fanatic”. Fed was nominated and won a most covet award for the most trusted and respected public figure second to Mandela. As of today, he’s won the most number of GS based primarily on his pure talent when he didn’t even have a coach during most of those winning years!! In the grand scheme of things, nadal with all his tainted victories and soiled reputation as a prime doping suspect will never be or hope to be half the man and tennis great Roger Federer has proven to be. Why would I or any other Fed fans be jealous?

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by SayonaRa on Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:42 pm

amrit,

How am I a “Nadal hating fanatic” when this is my first post in a tennis forum in half a year (you know that)? But a quick browse shows that you’re on here EVERYDAY in the look out for every opportunity to protect and promote the crooked one. So everyone can see who’s the real fanatic. Careful, sounds like you’re losing it.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by luvsports! on Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:31 pm

Good posts truffin and SR.

Btw stay tuned for an article I am going to write called "why we will never win the war on drugs".
This probably won't be news to the guys here, bar amrit, perhaps one or two stats may surprise, but outside of this forum, most will be either shocked, in denial, dismiss this or understand where I am coming from.
Watch this space Winking

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:00 pm

Truffin wrote:Just use a bit of logic, a bit of understanding into human nature. I can take it to a basic level for you… Take 200 young men in their late teens to early 30’s… 200 men from a church, 200 men from a college, 200 men from a business, 2oo men from a government—within those 200 men there will be some that are fantastic human beings, some that are jerks, some that cheat for gain, some that lie, some steal, some that will stab you in the back..
Yes, and out of those 200 people we will have some who are so obsessed with their hatred and jealousy of Nadal that they will ignore the fact PRP is legal, and that it clearly has a positive effect for soft tissue recovery.
Your general point- that doping is rife in sports- may well be true, and at no point have I said I can prove differently.
However in this instance it is clear from the evidence I have shown that PRP is an effective treatment. It is very different to the example you gave of someone praying to God for a miracle... the example in the video showed a doctor using a scientific technique to repair a severely damaged knee in two weeks- science is very different from miracle working and religions.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:45 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:
Truffin wrote:Just use a bit of logic,  a bit of understanding into human nature. I can take it to a basic level for you… Take 200 young men in their late teens to early 30’s…  200 men from a church, 200 men from a college, 200 men from a business, 2oo men from a government—within those 200 men there will be some that are fantastic human beings, some that are jerks, some that cheat for gain, some that lie, some steal, some that will stab you in the back..
Yes, and out of those 200 people we will have some who are so obsessed with their hatred and jealousy of Nadal that they will ignore the fact PRP is legal, and that it clearly has a positive effect for soft tissue recovery.
Your general point- that doping is rife in sports- may well be true, and at no point have I said I can prove differently.
However in this instance it is clear from the evidence I have shown that PRP is an effective treatment. It is very different to the example you gave of someone praying to God for a miracle... the example in the video showed a doctor using a scientific technique to repair a severely damaged knee in two weeks- science is very different from miracle working and religions.
and as I pointed out in my other examples-- every medicine that has later been pulled off the market, every medical procedure that has been banned or become obsolete has data and cases here and there that it works...and data and cases where it doesn't.  Every quackery scam has cases where someone beleives it works. You showing a video or a few studies means nothing in the greater scheme of whether it is an effective treatment.  Show us the overall success or failure rate if your so intent on proving it's effective.

Either way- your just throwing up a smokescreen-- even if PRP was extremely effective, I'm telling you and it's been proven that people use it to mask doping.. not just Nadal, but many.. So you keep trying to move the subject to whether PRP is effective, ignoring what the dark side of it is...   It's like I said- you are either naive or intellectually dishonest with yourself and others.. or just think you can throw up these meaningless smokescreens to distract.

I'll say it again- in no way am I jeaolous of Nadal. I could care less about his success or where he ends up in the standings of the  greats.. It takes nothing away from Federer. It's actually clear you and your fellow Nadal fanatics are jealous of Federer.. You can't stand the fact that he is more beloved than Nadal both amongst the sport and the fans, you can't stand that he is still seen as the GOAT by nearly every player and past great and nearly every expert despite your beloved H2H.. You can't stand that he out earns Nadal 2 to 1 in endorsements becasue he is so much more popular.. See for you NAdal fanatics, you're so stuck with the chip on your shoulder that he is the best, that it drives you crazy when few outside of your fanatic base agree with you.. Hence your constant harping and snide remarks.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:30 am

and as I pointed out in my other examples-- every medicine that has later been pulled off the market, every medical procedure that has been banned or become obsolete has data and cases here and there that it works...and data and cases where it doesn't.
So that means we should just assume that all medicine are scams?
This treatment has been shown to be very effective, and is used by many athletes including Tiger Woods.
I mean firstly we have an example in the video of a player having his knee fixed... we can even see from the tackle the knee took a bad bad twist, yet after 2 weeks with PRP treatment it was repaired. How do you think his knee got better if not for PRP? You compare it to a magical recovery or miracle by God etc. please- there is a distinction between scientific methods backed by the scientific community and delusional nonsense.
I was also reading the BMJ, where there is an article in its favour by one of the top BMJ scientists, it is and to quote 'a top advancement in sports medicine'. It's time to stop doubting the facts to fuel or irrational hatred TRuffin.

And you saying you've 'proven' it can mask doping- really? Have you? Tell me where it has been proven to mask doping?

As for your Nadal fan paragraph- LOL.
I have a lot of respect from Roger Federer. When Nadal couldn't play in WTF 2012 I actually supported Roger, including in the final when I was at the o2. I don't like his style of play as much as Nadal, but I'd say I still enjoy Federer's play a lot. Nadal himself is great friends with Federer, they get on well.

Unfortunately though, that is not reflected in you and the other Nadal hating Fed loving maniacs. You've been driven by hate and fear of Nadal to the point where you're all obsessed with bringing Nadal down, infact for some the hatred of Nadal I fear is greater than the love for Federer. All scientific evidence, logic, goes out of the window; in this campaign of hate.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:10 pm

I know it can be used to mask doping because I had clients who used it and got away with masking doping.  So pretty clear in my mind. In addition there are plenty of articles discussing how it can be used to mask doping if you care to research the opposite side of what you believe. 

Now you very well, and most probably don't believe me that I have 1st hand knowledge of it's misuse, and that's fine.  The couple of people on here who know me privately know my history, etc but you don't... so you can discount it if you wish.   However, just assume for the sake of argument that I am telling the truth.. think how frustrating it must be for me to be telling you the truth and you just not getting it.......    So- I don't have much more to add. Believe what you want, but someday when it all comes out-- don't be too heartbroken. He's just an athlete.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:58 pm

LOL.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:04 pm

Of course I don't believe you, you have no real evidence and a clear clear motive to lie, as you hate Nadal and love Federer.
Meanwhile the only 'witnesses' for you hate Nadal and love Federer even more than you do- it's hardly surprising that this sort of thing is proposed by you guys.

Can you either;
a) Say the name of these clients (which I understand you may not want to do for various reasons)
b) Or show me a scientific article which actually convincingly shows it can mask doping. (From what I've seen so far, there's been a research showing a temporary increase in HGH, and even this hasn't been verified. I haven't see any which shows it is used to cover up doping).

And why have you not entertained the idea the treatment may actually work, as the scientific evidence shows?
Or are you too blinded by this agenda led my hatred to do so?

DECIMA

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:19 pm

The Nadal butt wipers just don't understand anything other than Nadal worshiping. They live in a cocoon.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:23 pm

You spelt worshipping wrong, it has 2 ps.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by DECIMA on Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:36 pm

As I have said I do not have 100% proof that Nadal, or any other player is not doping. I am not claiming that either.
On this topic though, I think I have clearly shown the evidence for PRP- which is scientifically very strong, and as I said the top BMJ reporter wrote an article saying how revolutionary it was for sports medicine (would that be the case if it was a nonsense treatment). This is backed up by real world examples, where we can see from the video someone recovering from a knee injury within two weeks due to PRP.
Meanwhile there has been no real clear evidence of any sort showing how it has been used to mask doping,

That is my last post on this topic I'm afraid, and as usual the Nadal haters will keep on following their script of jealousy.
ROTLA- you in particular have exposed yourself during this debate- you said earlier on ja606 that I should commit suicide by jumping into a river, and have now repeated that on the condition that you disagree as I am of a different species that should be preserved.
Vile insults, driven of course my this rabid campaign of hate against Nadal which now runs your life, as well as many other fanatics on this forum.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

Post by truffin1 on Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:28 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:Of course I don't believe you, you have no real evidence and a clear clear motive to lie, as you hate Nadal and love Federer.
Meanwhile the only 'witnesses' for you hate Nadal and love Federer even more than you do- it's hardly surprising that this sort of thing is proposed by you guys.

Can you either;
a) Say the name of these clients (which I understand you may not want to do for various reasons)
b) Or show me a scientific article which actually convincingly shows it can mask doping. (From what I've seen so far, there's been a research showing a temporary increase in HGH, and even this hasn't been verified. I haven't see any which shows it is used to cover up doping).

And why have you not entertained the idea the treatment may actually work, as the scientific evidence shows?
Or are you too blinded by this agenda led my hatred to do so?
lol.. show me a post where I portray hate towards Nadal..  It's a fact that he dopes so discussing this and including it in discussing the greater issue of doping across the sport is hardly hate.. You might see it that way because being a blind fanatic, but it's not hate... It's a rational logical discussion about an athlete.

I was an early publicist, early form of sport marketing, then an agent for many famous fighters- most notably I worked with Ali for much of the 70's, and remain close to him. I later included NFL and NBA athletes as rosters before retiring when IMG- (you know that big company that owns many tennis tournies and were the agents for Federer and Nadal for years)  bought our company out and absorbed it. Many on my collegues, closest friends became and still are executives at IMG.   WE talk :-).    See- I have been around GOATS- I have been around scores of athletes and seen it all. I was involved in one of the most corrupt sports for decades in boxing and have seen every trick in the book..  I know what I am talking about and I know that Nadal has doped. I know he has failed tests. I know he has cut deals with the governing bodies to play while supposedly cleaning his act. I know he has reneged on these deals but the ATP does not want to bring down the sport by exposing the charade that they were part of.    One thing I will tell you to make you happy though is I do not know if he was on a silent ban during the past 7 months..  I know of past things, but I was told his team had "circled the wagons" and was not letting any info leak out-even to his agents. Of course he was also in the process of cutting his final ties with IMG.   I do know though just from experience that he did not have a torn patella tendon, so I can fairly deduce that if he was lying about that- something was amiss.     Make no mistake about it though- Nadal and others have doped in the past. They have broken the rules of their sport in a massive way and have benefitted greatly from it.  That's not hate- just fact, and like you- I will make this my last statement on the matter in this thread.

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Re: Nadal's doping has not been confirmed at all, dear me the hating fanatics are hysterial as usual

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