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Federer's Serving

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Federer's Serving Empty Federer's Serving

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:52 am

...seems to have lost that super-fine timing it once had.

Is it because of some permanent physical issue, to me, his serve appears more physical these days.

Or is it something else.

Can it go back to its old, waspish days again?

Federer's Serving S_a14_24113305

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:04 am

Just found this video in which he is warming up the motion during this USO and looks fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr07PuQojg0

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Post by paulcz on Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:37 pm

It is clear that serve is not there due to his back problem and everything starts and ends with the serve at tennis. That is really difficult for Fed`s game not to take easy points after serve, because he is not a kind of player to wait for opponents errors. His serve was the best on the circuit in his prime times, thereby he is much more frustrated when he must keep rallying with players.
Nevertheless I see that  current Fed is not mentally strong when playing important balls. The cause is a mixture of  things, but his back is a starting point.
Otherwise I would not have any doubts about Fed`s win with Robredo if he was in the second half of the draw.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:58 pm

Are you saying that Fed lost not to face Nadal?

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Post by paulcz on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:34 pm

Tenez wrote:Are you saying that Fed lost not to face Nadal?
If you have played a tourney when the worst possible opponent is waiting for you in the next round, then you would surely know what I meant by that different result for the match Fed with Robredo.

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:10 am

I am pretty sure this could happen but I doubt Fed lost purposedly on that occasion. Maybe when down 2 sets but not the first 2.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:29 am

When was the last time Federer served well?
I can't remember exactly but am pretty sure he was good in O2 last year.
From memory, it all went downhill after he chased that drop-shot from Dodig in IW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAUhA56LJlU

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:04 am

noleisthebest wrote:When was the last time Federer served well?
I can't remember exactly but am pretty sure he was good in O2 last year.
From memory, it all went downhill after he chased that drop-shot from Dodig in IW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAUhA56LJlU
He didn't server well throughout the tournament. Even during his Wimbledon 2012 win, he served poorly during his initial rounds especially against Malisse and Bennetau. Its hard for me to remember when was the last time he served well through the slam, Maybe it was RG 2011 though he lost the final.

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Post by luvsports! on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:23 am

I think he served well vs djoko and murray in wimby '12.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:29 am

luvsports! wrote:I think he served well vs djoko and murray in wimby '12.
vs Djokovic Yes. But against Murray his serve was under the gun for the most of 1st and 2nd set.

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:45 am

I agree that FO 11 was excellent serving. It was also helped by fast balls.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:50 am

Tenez wrote:I agree that FO 11 was excellent serving. It was also helped by fast balls.
How do you think the bigger racquet he tried would work for his serve once he got used to it properly (best case scenario)

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:57 am

In theory more power put less precision (so more second serves), better angles and kick serve ....however The difference shoudl essentially be on the second serve cause teh first is usually hit quite flat and there his current racquet should give him more precision.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:04 pm

To me, serve is such a complex and incredibly finely tuned shot, it almost is a miracle to hit a perfect one, and he was one with that racquet (when he had that perfection) for such a long time, I wonder if he can achieve/have that same feel and instinctive motion with the new racquet.
I don't know if that is possible as it's all theoretical to me, but if he could be one with the new racquet on serve, I think somehow all else would fall into place.

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Post by truffin1 on Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:47 pm

noleisthebest wrote:When was the last time Federer served well?
I can't remember exactly but am pretty sure he was good in O2 last year.
From memory, it all went downhill after he chased that drop-shot from Dodig in IW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAUhA56LJlU
Cinci last year maybe?  1st Masters ever without being broken once..  It was all clicking that tourney.


I don't think he can ever rediscover his near prime serve...  His service motion has permantly changed IMO from the inability to create the same arch in his back as before---  which is from the back issue, age,etc..  He arm it more now.   There's a fine line between domination and really good, and just losing a touch off of any area will bring you down a level.   Frankly- it's just a testament to his genius that he's continued to do so well up until this year with the issues he's had..

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:57 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Cinci last year maybe?  1st Masters ever without being broken once..  It was all clicking that tourney.


I don't think he can ever rediscover his near prime serve...  His service motion has permantly changed IMO from the inability to create the same arch in his back as before---  which is from the back issue, age,etc..  He arm it more now.   There's a fine line between domination and really good, and just losing a touch off of any area will bring you down a level.   Frankly- it's just a testament to his genius that he's continued to do so well up until this year with the issues he's had..
I'd probably be convinced about any other player, but have this blind faith that if anyone can do it, that's Fed, somehow in my mind, he has the keys to the tennis treasure-chest no other mortal does and he can get out of it anything he likes.
So I'll believe until he retires....somehow Blush !

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:30 pm

Well we will find out soon whether he can keep playing or not at a decent level. I think he doesn't want to go through another year like that. SO he is probably going to look at the best physio/doctors in the world for the remaining of the year.

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Post by paulcz on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:42 pm

Tenez wrote:In theory more power put less precision (so more second serves), better angles and kick serve ....however The difference shoudl essentially be on the second serve cause teh first is usually hit quite flat and there his current racquet should give him more precision.
It is not so clear to say how a bigger frame affects the serve. It depends on the racket frame balance, stiffness, strings tensions. In addition to that a bigger framce slows down the swing.
What is more there are many misleading promoting slogans to size up the power for bigger frames, which is quite confusing.

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Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:04 am

This is why I say "in theory" but the basics principles remain:
more strings/bigger frames => less precision, more spin => more angles etc...

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