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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:51 am

What a fantastic match that was, credit to both players there for producing another classic.

I was watching some FO 2013 SF highlights in between the sets, and it was shocking how much faster Montreal was as a surface. It's also seemed much faster than USO, which is strange given they're both the same material (cement).
Incredible guts from Nadal at the end, Djokovic was brave all the way until the TB as well.

Would like to say commiserations to Paul, NITB and other Djokovic fans- but if it's any consolation Djokovic played fantastic tennis in the final 2 sets, and is still my fave for USO (unless it's really windy, no offence).

Cheers

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Post by Tenez on Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:30 am

Glad you enjoyed. I am really surprised by the result. Djoko is paying for all the close matches won in 2011. Always end up on the wrong side nowadays.

Will try to see the 3rd set one day.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:32 am

You need 2 players to be playing well in order to have a great match.
That was not the case last night.
I loved the drama, though.
First class.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:56 pm

Some highlights for you Tenez, as I know you didn't watch it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0fbgU6MJYs

Apart from some poor double faults in the first set by Djokovic, it was a match of exceptional quality.

EDIT: Best game of the match was the fifth game of the third set, one of the best games I've seen in a long time. The highlights on the link are from 15:03-17:48.


Last edited by Julia Santamaria on Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:58 pm

Go to 15:30 on the Youtube video btw, if you don't have much time. That point was crucial for Nadal.

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Post by summerblues on Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:36 pm

Other than maybe for the drama, I would not call it a great match.

Rafa played really well.  On another thread you ventured to say that maybe this was his best ever HC performance.  "Best ever" is easy to say and hard to do, and I am not sure I would go that far, but his performance was right up there - this was a top HC Rafa, if you will.

Nole, however, was some distance from his own very best.  He was really poor for most of the first set.  It was not just "some poor double faults"; all of his game was just not there; his returns for the most part did not sting; he kept leaking errors on the most routine of groundies.  He cleaned it up somewhat in the second and third sets, and by the third set he was playing some pretty good tennis - in patches.  But all in all, not one of his finer days by any stretch of the imagination.

Nevertheless, the result is a worrying one for Nole for two reasons:

First, Rafa did play very well; it was definitely one of his better HC performances.  This means Nole will have to expect to have to be in very solid form if he wants to beat him.

Second, Nole's form, unfortunately, does not appear to be all that solid.  This is really not new; he has been so-so for most of this year, a handful of great matches notwithstanding.

So, do I think this was an all-around brilliant match?  Certainly not.  But do I think it shows Rafa may have a great chance to do well in the US HC season and potentially finish the year at #1 (in spite of missing a couple of months of the season)?  Yes, I do.

Yesterday was certainly a great news for Rafa fans.

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Post by Tenez on Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:58 pm

Thanks Amri. I watched it. Like SB I could not see the great match. SHots were so shorts especially from Djokovic. Very bizarre to see him unable to dictate on HC v Nadal. Very loopy shots without weight.

Nadal was not that powerfully impressive actually but what was impressive is that never was breathless even after long rallies in that 3rd set.

The key point is again that first one in the 3rd set TB. long rally which Nadal is not afraid to play but more importantly in no rush to finish and has enough breath to pull the agressive shots at the end of the long rally...which is exactly what Djoko can usually do.

Djokovic has been disappointing of late. He looks very much the pre 2011...and looks like he has not progressed over the last 2 years.

Nadal simply looks like he has fit as ever, stamina and knee wise certainly.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:58 pm

Tenez, I will try and find a vid of the whole match- because I find your analysis this time doesn't really correspond to what happened during the match.
This was different to US'11, AO'12, FO'12 etc.; there weren't a lot of long rallies. When Nadal did get the chance, he didn't roll it in and extend the play- he tried to take the point on and control it.
It was not a case of Nadal just hoping Djokovic gets tired, it was a case of Nadal actively trying to control the rally, he knows how dangerous Djokovic is when the Serb is in control of the baseline.

People who watched the whole match can vouch for me on this point atleast.

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Post by luvsports! on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:01 pm

I agree that Nadal really took the initiative, being more aggressive, dare i say it was good to see. Djoko, imo, was actually more aggressive.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:10 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:Tenez, I will try and find a vid of the whole match- because I find your analysis this time doesn't really correspond to what happened during the match.
This was different to US'11, AO'12, FO'12 etc.; there weren't a lot of long rallies. When Nadal did get the chance, he didn't roll it in and extend the play- he tried to take the point on and control it.
It was not a case of Nadal just hoping Djokovic gets tired, it was a case of Nadal actively trying to control the rally, he knows how dangerous Djokovic is when the Serb is in control of the baseline.

People who watched the whole match can vouch for me on this point atleast.
.

....which is exactly how he always extends a rally: by controlling it. The only difference last night he was closer to the baseline then usual.
The third set was all the same old as it always was between the two.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:13 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:Tenez, I will try and find a vid of the whole match- because I find your analysis this time doesn't really correspond to what happened during the match.
This was different to US'11, AO'12, FO'12 etc.; there weren't a lot of long rallies. When Nadal did get the chance, he didn't roll it in and extend the play- he tried to take the point on and control it.
It was not a case of Nadal just hoping Djokovic gets tired, it was a case of Nadal actively trying to control the rally, he knows how dangerous Djokovic is when the Serb is in control of the baseline.

People who watched the whole match can vouch for me on this point atleast.
.

....which is exactly how he always extends a rally: by controlling it. The only difference last night he was closer to the baseline then usual.
The third set was all the same old as it always was between the two.
No he extends the rally with the loopy moonball to the backhand side. When he rips the forehand down the line, and comes into the net to put away a smash- that's not extending the rally.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:14 pm

When Djokovic is in control of a rally- Nadal rarely wins it. Djokovic's precision and accuracy is just too good.
It's key for Nadal to take control of the rally and go for the lines to ensure Djokovic can't dominate him all the time like in 2011.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:16 pm

....and if he has a chance, forget about the lines - just "rip" the FH and go for Novak's face...

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:17 pm

noleisthebest wrote:....and if he has a chance, forget about the lines - just "rip"  the FH and go for Novak's face...
Oh cmon, he apologised ten times and it's a totally legitimate shot. smiley
Infact any other shot, and I think Djokovic would have plonked it back for a winner.


Last edited by Julia Santamaria on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tenez on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:17 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:Tenez, I will try and find a vid of the whole match- because I find your analysis this time doesn't really correspond to what happened during the match.
This was different to US'11, AO'12, FO'12 etc.; there weren't a lot of long rallies. When Nadal did get the chance, he didn't roll it in and extend the play- he tried to take the point on and control it.
It was not a case of Nadal just hoping Djokovic gets tired, it was a case of Nadal actively trying to control the rally, he knows how dangerous Djokovic is when the Serb is in control of the baseline.

People who watched the whole match can vouch for me on this point atleast.
I don;t know if you have been reading my analysis of their previous matches but I have never said that Nadal was just trying to outlast Djoko in the past. On the contrary he knew he could not outlast him (since 2011) and therefore was pushed into UEs. Yesterday he did not have has many UEs because cause Djoko was playing poorly and very short...making Nadal more confident with easier winners.

I did not really see Nadal play particularly well yesterday but certainly Djoko was poor....unlike what he can play.

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Post by Tenez on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:18 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:When Djokovic is in control of a rally- Nadal rarely wins it. Djokovic's precision and accuracy is just too good.
It's key for Nadal to take control of the rally and go for the lines to ensure Djokovic can't dominate him all the time like in 2011.
 Indeed but that has a lot to with Djoko more than with Nadal.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:20 pm

Tenez wrote: Yesterday he did not have has many UEs because cause Djoko was playing poorly and very short...making Nadal more confident with easier winners.
When? When did Djokovic play 'very short'? I can't remember Djokovic playing too many balls that were short, can you point any out?
And which winners were easy winners? There are no easy winners against a player defensively as good as Djokovic.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:26 pm

Easy winner=safe winner=Nadal as well as Murray and more than he should-Djokovic.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:27 pm

luvsports! wrote:I agree that Nadal really took the initiative, being more aggressive, dare i say it was good to see.
Yes, have to concur.
Even at times I felt he was too aggressive- I think he could have got a few more points sometimes if he tried to rally some more and draw some errors.
Djokovic was very attacking too, he hit the ball flat and hard- some of his forehands were huge.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:28 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Easy winner=safe winner=Nadal as well as Murray and more than he should-Djokovic.
I don't understand?
What do you mean?

Which winner was easy?

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:29 pm

On the easy winner topic, at some point in the third set Nole hit a couple of great flat forehands from the baseline.
He really,, really needs try and switch to flat hitting it as much as possible, it would make such a huge difference and solve a lot of his problems.

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:31 pm

Surely it's much harder to hit a winner against a good defensive player like Djokovic or Nadal?

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:33 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Easy winner=safe winner=Nadal as well as Murray and more than he should-Djokovic.
I don't understand?
What do you mean?

Which winner was easy?
All those that took asphyxiation process applied to the opponent before executing them instead of going for the shots straight away and trying to make the point not as long but as short as possible.
That of course is not an easy thing to do, plus it requires a bit of courage.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:34 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:Surely it's much harder to hit a winner against a good defensive player like Djokovic or Nadal?
Just ask Darcis...

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:37 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Easy winner=safe winner=Nadal as well as Murray and more than he should-Djokovic.
I don't understand?
What do you mean?

Which winner was easy?
All those that took asphyxiation process applied to the opponent before executing them instead of going for the shots straight away and trying to make the point not as long but as short as possible.
That of course is not an easy thing to do, plus it requires a bit of courage.
Well if can move your opponent around, before opening up a space for a winner- then surely that's good work?
That's what I try to do when I play- dominate the rally before having a chance to hit a winner. What's wrong with that.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:52 pm

On second thoughts, Nole should've kicked Nadal's bottles over after the ball in the face.
Now, that would've been something! Cool 

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Post by BEL19VE on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:53 pm

Matosevic did that in Monte Carlo (kicking the bottles).
Nadal smiled and put them back up.

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