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ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:12 pm

As I said ROTLA... the margins between being top 10, top 50, and being a great champion is actually very small considering the great change in a player having to play with a totally different racket and technology. Thus you can't be sure with any player, but you can't rule it out either.

As for Laver vs McEnroe think, from what I have seen so far I think McEnroe's insights are very valuable and he seems to be very knowledgeable about the game.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:36 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:As I said ROTLA... the margins between being top 10, top 50, and being a great champion is actually very small considering the great change in a player having to play with a totally different racket and technology. Thus you can't be sure with any player, but you can't rule it out either.

As for Laver vs McEnroe think, from what I have seen so far I think McEnroe's insights are very valuable and he seems to be very knowledgeable about the game.
I don't agree to your point that being top 10, top 50 and a great champion have very small margins. The margins may look small in a match or a few matches, but in the long run a player will always end up being what he truly was.

There was never a point of Laver vs Mcenroe, why bring it up. You think Mcenroe's insights are valuable then fine. I've already told what I think of him and his comments on screen/media.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:40 pm

Any updates on Ferrer? He suddenly has started to lose too early in tournaments off late.

Looks like he just can't digest the fact he that he is now ranked above both Nadal and Federer. Must be overwhelming.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:47 pm

"Rafa since he's come back has been the best player in the world, no question about it," Djokovic told ESPN after his third round victory at the Western & Southern Open in Cincinnati.

The World No. 1 said he sees improvements in Nadal's game since the Spaniard missed seven months last year with a knee injury. "I think he's more aggressive," said Djokovic, pointing to their semi-final match in Montreal last week, which was won by Nadal in three sets. "He was very aggressive, stepping in, variety in the game -- but it was still a very close match," the Serb added.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:40 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:As I said ROTLA... the margins between being top 10, top 50, and being a great champion is actually very small considering the great change in a player having to play with a totally different racket and technology. Thus you can't be sure with any player, but you can't rule it out either.

As for Laver vs McEnroe think, from what I have seen so far I think McEnroe's insights are very valuable and he seems to be very knowledgeable about the game.
I don't agree to your point that being top 10, top 50 and a great champion have very small margins. The margins may look small in a match or a few matches, but in the long run a player will always end up being what he truly was.

There was never a point of Laver vs Mcenroe, why bring it up. You think Mcenroe's insights are valuable then fine. I've already told what I think of him and his comments on screen/media.
If I may butt into this conversation belatedly, Laver's point is that Federer with his one-off supreme hand to eye coordination gift and talent, as well as his first class athlete build and ability would have dominated in any era with any technology. If tennis was played with shovels, he'd still dominate, he has absolutely everything a tennis player needs.
Nadal does not, his big muscles would have meant nothing 20-30 years ago, I really can't imagine him play with a wooden racquet, his shot making has got nothing to do with any finesse and feel, I don't ever remember seeing him just place a ball down the line without bludgeoning the life out of the poor thing.

I would love to see a WTF played just once on grass with wooden racquets, just for fun, round robin, top 8 players  after Wimbledon.
Make it even a charity event if they have to Winking

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:53 pm

John Isner....server from hell!
I remember him literally lobing Berankis in New Haven with his serves last year...
GO NOLE!!! diva 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:40 pm

Serve it out, Nole and then 3rd set TB Yikes 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:45 pm

Wow, what a serve from Nole to save MP!
Nooo, another one

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:46 pm

Wah Wah Wah 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:52 pm

OK everyone, put your hands up; *who's excited for another Federer vs Nadal clash today!*

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:01 pm

noleisthebest wrote:If I may butt into this conversation belatedly, Laver's point is that Federer with his one-off supreme hand to eye coordination gift and talent, as well as his first class athlete build and ability would have dominated in any era with any technology. If tennis was played with shovels, he'd still dominate, he has absolutely everything a tennis player needs.
Nadal does not, his big muscles would have meant nothing 20-30 years ago, I really can't imagine him play with a wooden racquet, his shot making has got nothing to do with any finesse and feel, I don't ever remember seeing him just place a ball down the line without bludgeoning the life out of the poor thing.

I would love to see a WTF played just once on grass with wooden racquets, just for fun, round robin, top 8 players  after Wimbledon.
Make it even a charity event if they have to Winking
More to the point is that 20 or 30 years big muscles and stamina like Nadal;s simply did not exist. There was no science to develop such muscles and being able to outlast a marathonian.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:05 pm

Why are draws always clearing up for Nadal?

Berdych and Isner are going to be hammered by Nadal. Hopefully Delpo can salvage that Tournament....unless Federer manages to ask the gods to help him one more time.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by paulcz on Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:48 pm

If Nadal's team is able to keep him in his juiced present form, then there is no player, who could beat him. I rather will not estimate the score for their match with Fed. Miracles can happen from time to time, but I would bet that Apocalypse has ten times higher chance to happen than Fed will win it today.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:15 pm

paulcz wrote:If Nadal's team is able to keep him in his juiced present form, then there is no player, who could beat him. I rather will not estimate the score for their match with Fed. Miracles can happen from time to time, but I would bet that Apocalypse has ten times higher chance to happen than Fed will win it today.
In today's current economical and ecological climate....Fed must still have a good chance to win then according to your predictions.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:19 pm

Why has no one put their hand up.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:24 am

Come on Rogeeeeer, squash the moonballer!!! diva racket2 racket1 tennisball

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:41 am

That is some very, very fine tennis from Federer...  Magic

Real pleasure to watch him!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:42 am

WTF is Nadal doing Doh 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:43 am

He looks so nervous does Rafa, Fed meanwhile looks like he has no pressure and is playing great tennis.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:44 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:WTF is Nadal doing Doh 
He is just being given a lesson in tennis, guts and shot-making Bubbly 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by luvsports! on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:58 am

FED BREAKS!!!! WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:01 am

How awesome was that last point, did Federer crush that girly BH of Nadal or what!!!

Roger playing pretty well for someone aged and in serious decline Winking

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:06 am

RO-GEEEER!!! love Magic Bubbly Star wizard diva cracker 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by luvsports! on Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:21 am

Huge hold from feds there, sublime stuff! Big Grin YIPPPEEEEE

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:41 am

Fantastic play from Roger, he deserves this tbh today.


Nadal will be disappointed- he's been on a good run of form- but played poorly today and up against a better player on the day.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:48 am

Dominant display here from Fed- Tenez will like to see the highlights of this.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:52 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:Dominant display here from Fed- Tenez will like to see the highlights of this.
You can watch it every day as a dessert, too. Tennis doesn't get better and more beautiful than when Federer plays.
The fact Nadal scraped his way back into the match as usual should by no means cloud your vision, Amri.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:56 am

Federers still my favourite to win this.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:01 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:Federers still my favourite to win this.
But even if he doesn't you must have finally realised what a chasm in quality there is between him and Nadal....

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:06 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:Federers still my favourite to win this.
But even if he doesn't you must have finally realised what a chasm in quality there is between him and Nadal....
Yes, of course.
He's gonna win anyway, so this talk is ludicrous.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:10 am

The only ludicrous thing is you thinking that by claiming Federer will win, you hope it doesn't happen.
Where were you in 2011 Amri... Laugh 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:31 am

Tense match that was.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:33 am

That was a very unlucky loss for Fed.
Still, the tennis he produced tonight will have restored a bit of his confidence, and give hope for USO.
I loved those crazy forehands down the line tonight! love love love 
In addition, his ranking has really scappered him in Cincy.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:34 am

Federer should be proud of himself- fantastic display and probably deserved to win.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by summerblues on Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:53 am

JS, congrats, your man won against an in-form Roger, even though he himself was not playing at his best - at least not the first one and a half set or so.  For a while I almost thought Roger might sneak a win tonight.

Also will give you credit for this (though I disagree):

Julia Santamaria wrote:Federer ... probably deserved to win.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:03 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:Federer should be proud of himself- fantastic display and probably deserved to win.
Proud of a close match against Nadal which he lost?? ha ha . Do you know his achievements as a tennis player? The current 'close loss to Nadal' is nothing compared to those. In fact nothing much to be proud had he even won this.

Fed almost always had very close matches against Nadal. So nothing new here.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:13 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:Federer should be proud of himself- fantastic display and probably deserved to win.
Proud of a close match against Nadal which he lost?? ha ha . Do you know his achievements as a tennis player? The current 'close loss to Nadal' is nothing compared to those. In fact nothing much to be proud had he even won this.

Fed almost always had very close matches against Nadal. So nothing new here.
Obviously in the context of his great career I am not saying this is a highlight- what I am saying is that given the circumstances of the racket-change, low confidence etc. -this is a tremendous performance against his nemesis.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:14 am

noleisthebest wrote:That was a very unlucky loss for Fed.
Still, the tennis he produced tonight will have restored a bit of his confidence, and give hope for USO.
I loved those crazy forehands down the line tonight! love love love 
In addition, his ranking has really scappered him in Cincy.
I would still think he should take some confidence from this match. He was never expected to win this, not with the on going back problem where player ranked 100+ are beating him. Still played  some good shots and had a closely fought match. Hope for USopen? I'm not thinking that far, in fact I have not much hopes at all.

Now this loss means Fed hasn't been able to defend any of his title he won last year. His ranking could slide further as I posted earlier. Berdych is surely going ahead, perhaps even Delpo.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:17 am

summerblues wrote:JS, congrats, your man won against an in-form Roger, even though he himself was not playing at his best - at least not the first one and a half set or so.  For a while I almost thought Roger might sneak a win tonight.

Also will give you credit for this (though I disagree):

Julia Santamaria wrote:Federer ... probably deserved to win.
No I stick by my comment, Fed really brought it out on court... even the last game Fed probably hit his 3 best points of the match from 0-40 on Rafas serve.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:13 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:I would still think he should take some confidence from this match. He was never expected to win this, not with the on going back problem where player ranked 100+ are beating him. Still played  some good shots and had a closely fought match. Hope for USopen? I'm not thinking that far, in fact I have not much hopes at all.

Now this loss means Fed hasn't been able to defend any of his title he won last year. His ranking could slide further as I posted earlier. Berdych is surely going ahead, perhaps even Delpo.
I did not watch the match but it seems the result confirms what I have been saying. That a fit Fed, running with confidence having had a proper preparation and a new racquet coudl still play the best tennis of his life.

Despite having none of the above he ran his worse opponent playing himself at his best, running with confidence, pretty close.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:30 am

Yes, that was a sublime performance from Fed last night. Plenty to look forward to in the coming YEARS Bubbly 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:49 am

Here are the highlights, found only one clip

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=37iLRFXFBGc

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by luvsports! on Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:34 am

Feds is now ranked 7th in the world Sad.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:08 pm

Oh, but what a number 7!!! Rose 

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:15 pm

yes...I m not very concerned about his ranking for now....I just wish he can improve from yesterday match.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by ... on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:56 pm

This is an extract from Federer's post match interview yesterday, sounds just about right to me!


“I’m not totally unhappy about the match. I could have played a bit better, but I think I was playing well and  tactics were working. Of course, I always have to adjust to faster courts, slower courts when I play Rafa. Plus it is him; it's the type of game I don't see very often…

I'm happy with my progress along the way. Could have won tonight. Should have won tonight, who knows? But at the end, I think Rafa's confidence and the way he's playing at the moment got him through. So for me, I think it was a good step in the right direction.”

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by truffin1 on Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:02 pm

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:I would still think he should take some confidence from this match. He was never expected to win this, not with the on going back problem where player ranked 100+ are beating him. Still played  some good shots and had a closely fought match. Hope for USopen? I'm not thinking that far, in fact I have not much hopes at all.

Now this loss means Fed hasn't been able to defend any of his title he won last year. His ranking could slide further as I posted earlier. Berdych is surely going ahead, perhaps even Delpo.
I did not watch the match but it seems the result confirms what I have been saying. That a fit Fed, running with confidence having had a proper preparation and a new racquet coudl still play the best tennis of his life.

Despite having none of the above he ran his worse opponent playing himself at his best, running with confidence, pretty close.
Nadal is just a bad matchup anywhere for Fed, but any trained eye, any unbiased eye could see last night how otherworldly Federers talent is compared to Nadals.  All credit to Nadal, he's a beast competitor and the patterns just favor him, but Federer was brilliant for large stretches last nigtht at 32 playing perhaps the worst tennis in 10+ years against his matchup nightmare who is in his prime and playing perhaps the best tennis (on hardcourt especially) of his life. I don't even think the mental demons did Federer in last night. It was just a hard fought match with fantastic tennis from both players, but I have no doubt now that the H2H would have looked a lot different with Fed much closer had Nadal been good enough all those years to consistently face Federer on these type courts.

It gives me hope-- we now can see that a healthy focused Federer able to serve freely and play freely can still be a force.  Perhaps the grueling nature of a Major will continue to wear him down to the point where in the latter stages he's gassed, but if he can get a good draw and arrive relatively fit- in a one off match- he can still beat anyone..  Surely time will march on and it will be harder and harder but I wouldn't be shocked to see Federer pull off one more Major over the next 2 years.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how Nadal has suddenly become his hardcourt master... goes from unable to win in his prime and healthy for over two years off of clay, and now suddenly he's nearly unbeatable on hardcourts?  someone have an answer for that mystery?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by summerblues on Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:20 pm

noleisthebest wrote:This is an extract from Federer's post match interview yesterday, sounds just about right to me!
Good quote; agree with you.  Good assessment by Roger.  In the past I thought Fed was at times guilty putting too much of a positive spin on his own chances vs Rafa.  Maybe he thought that would be good for the confidence, but I felt it was working against him more than in his favor.  This time he gives a very frank summary.  There were plenty of positives to take from yesterday so let's hope he will do just that.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:57 pm

I was really impressed yesterday with the way Federer was returning serve- it seems to me Fed, Annacone + the team really did his homework. 
He was either slicing it back very deep, and on the second serve return trying to hit around it with the forehand. 

I even remember a few instances where Nadal had just thrown the ball up on the second serve, and Federer ran to his left to open up the forehand,
this for me is the right thing to do on the Ad.court against Nadal- it gives Nadal a choice; either stay with the outwide serve and let Federer unleash the forehand- or try and change the direction midway through to the service routine so it's down the T- which is always difficult. Tactically it was an astute match from Federer all round.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Cincinnati

Post by DECIMA on Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:02 pm

Truffin, on outdoor hard even when it's a fast surface Nadal still tends to do well against Fed... Miami 2004, Dubai 2006, Miami 2005 (ok he lost that but played really well and was 2 sets up at one point.)

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