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Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

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Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by DECIMA on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:42 pm

There's been a lot of talk about how there's a big difference between Murray and Djokovic, and some post Djokovic in a considerably better light than Murray.

But I don't understand this at all. To me, their playing styles are relatively similar, very solid baseliners.

Outside the baseline, I'd actually give Murray the edge. For me his net play is better, smash is far better, his slices is better, and his serve is probably a bit better as well- compared to Djokovic.

So why the negativity surrounding Murray- but not the same standard shown to Djokovic?

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by luvsports! on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:45 pm

I agree, I see them as pretty similar.
Despite the fact that murray is I think better in the ones you said, I feel novak is trying to be more attacking by coming to the net more, drop shots and trying to shorten the points.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by Tenez on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:54 pm

I agree that the style (baseliner) is very similar. I see a big difference though between the two on how they achieve that lung busting game.

In short, Djoko is a lighter weight but with a slightly looser game which means he can hit a bit harder with more risk and with less musles.
Murray is all about muscling the ball, particularly on the FH. He is working harder, right and left on every point, showing how strong, fit, and stamina he has. Djoko does cover lots of ground too but with a lighter body and that doesn't make it look as gruelling plus Djoko likes to throw the riskier shot (winner or UE) much more often that Murray. Murray is more of a wall to me. A wall with a bad FH. A good BH though.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by summerblues on Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:18 am

Pretty similar to me too.  I also agree that outside of baseline, Murray is actually more versatile than Nole.  When they first started out, I used to prefer Murray partly because of that - Nole's game is too metronomic.  However, Andy does have a tendency to play too passive, which can be both detrimental to his success and more boring to watch.

As a result, all in all, I do not have much preference between the two.  Lately I have been leaning towards Andy, but it is more because I think that relative to their skills, Nole has overpreformed a bit, while Andy has underperformed - so Andy needs to win more now to make their relative success reflect their relative quality better.  Other than that, I am usually quite indifferent between the two.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:28 am

In short: 6>2, with no friends in powerful places, i.e. the hard way.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by Tenez on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:36 am

I do not see the extra versatility in Murray. Murray is too much of a retriever to be called versatile. When you chase balls down the choice is limited, the one who asks Murray to chase the ball down is the more versatile one for me.

Djoko is very much a chaser too....but certainly less versus Murray. He lost last Sunday cause once again, like at the USO he tried to force the issue and came up with more UEs.....typical of those losing to these retrievers.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:18 am

With Murray and masses, it's The Emperor's New Clothes syndrome.

Everything I have read from people "enjoying" Murray's tennis sounds like parroting of BBC commentators.
The only difference is, those commentators are paid to say positive things about his tennis, I don't envy them.
As for Murrray's "net game" I find the thought tragically comical. Do people know what net game is? The guy is scared of it to death. If he could, he would probably play 10m behind the base-line, just hasn't worked out how yet.
He is the most passive player on the tour and really bad news for tennis. I still can't get my head round how he managed to win Wimbledon.

As for the differences between the two, one of the telling ones is the H2H against the top 10-15.
Murray is a lot more beatable than Novak.

A world of difference between the two on clay, as well.

Neither have any weapons to attack with, but unlike Murray who is physically a lot stronger, it is Novak who tries to attack, and has been trying to make it a more frequent feature of his game this year.
With Murray, if ever there is an attacking shot it's such a learnt and unnatural move/pattern from him. He knows he can rely on his tight-top show-off fitness, so at the moment, with a bit of luck here and there, it has brought the result.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:33 am

Djokovic for me has had the more entertaining matches. Almost box office if you will. Even when playing an opponent who is brutally hitting the ball he is able to add something to a match.

Murray is not there quite yet, I do cross my fingers as a fan that he can kick on from his success.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:42 am

legendkillar wrote:Djokovic for me has had the more entertaining matches. Almost box office if you will. Even when playing an opponent who is brutally hitting the ball he is able to add something to a match.

Murray is not there quite yet, I do cross my fingers as a fan that he can kick on from his success.

Very good point.
I think it's a lot to do with their personas. Nole is an extrovert and a showman, Murray is not.
Still, part of Murray must be enjoying all the love (however fickle it of course is) he is receiving right now, so it will be interesting to see how he responds.
I saw that a fan wanting Murray to sign a copy of a book nearly poke his eye with it by accident the other day...and another saddo who actually tattooed an image of Murray holding Wimbledon trophy on his backside!!!!

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:55 am

In the Wimbledon final:

Murray hit 5 more winners than Djokovic.
Djokovic was successful 30 times at the net, compared to 26 from Murray. Not a huge difference. (Djokovic did have more unsuccessful attempts too though we must note).

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:04 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:In the Wimbledon final:

Murray hit 5 more winners than Djokovic.
Djokovic was successful 30 times at the net, compared to 26 from Murray. Not a huge difference. (Djokovic did have more unsuccessful attempts too though we must note).

How did Murray find himself at the net those 26 times, did he come after an approach shot, or even serve, or was he invited to it and had no choice but to chase the ball?

I think you are confused between points played at the net as opposed to the net game best shown by Strakh this Wimbledon.
I would like to believe you can spot the difference.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:08 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:In the Wimbledon final:

Murray hit 5 more winners than Djokovic.
Djokovic was successful 30 times at the net, compared to 26 from Murray. Not a huge difference. (Djokovic did have more unsuccessful attempts too though we must note).

How did Murray find himself at the net those 26 times, did he come after an approach shot, or even serve, or was he invited to it and had no choice but to chase the ball?

I think you are confused between points played at the net as opposed to the net game best shown by Strakh this Wimbledon.
I would like to believe you can spot the difference.
Well I'm just looking from the stats from the Wimbledon website, I didn't actually count them myself.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by Tenez on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:27 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:
Well I'm just looking from the stats from the Wimbledon website, I didn't actually count them myself.

 Winners  have no real meaning in todays long rallying conditions as often a winner is the result of a failed aggressive attempt from the opposition. Typically, trying to force teh issue at the net while it's much easier to pass nowadays.

 It's the UEs which make the difference. There have been about 200 points played. 18 points separates them and it's Djoko who made an extra 20UEs. That is the key stat of the match.

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Re: Huge Difference between Murray and Djokovic?

Post by BlueClay on Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:01 am

noleisthebest wrote:
With Murray and masses, it's The Emperor's New Clothes syndrome.

Everything I have read from people "enjoying" Murray's tennis sounds like parroting of BBC commentators.
The only difference is, those commentators are paid to say positive things about his tennis, I don't envy them.
As for Murrray's "net game" I find the thought tragically comical. Do people know what net game is? The guy is scared of it to death. If he could, he would probably play 10m behind the base-line, just hasn't worked out how yet.
He is the most passive player on the tour and really bad news for tennis. I still can't get my head round how he managed to win Wimbledon



Wrong. Murray's net game is better than Djokovic's overall. Murray is no longer the most passive player on tour, not even close. He can be aggressive when he needs to be. He certainly dominated that W final against your hero. Winking 
How did Murray win Wimbledon? Maybe because Murray is the better player on grass, how is that for a reason? 



As for the differences between the two, one of the telling ones is the H2H against the top 10-15.
Murray is a lot more beatable than Novak


That has been the case in the past but it may not be in the future. Murray has improved.


A world of difference between the two on clay, as well


Yes, here I agree with you. Novak is better than Murray on clay.


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