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Are the early losses of Nadal and Federer really big surprises ?

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Are the early losses of Nadal and Federer really big surprises ?  Empty Are the early losses of Nadal and Federer really big surprises ?

Post by paulcz on Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:05 pm

Two quite unexpected results from Wimbledon came last two days. These who think about tennis more should not have been so surprised, because it was obvious that it was only a matter of time when that will happen in both cases, which are quite different purpose wise.

In case of Nadal, that „programmed“ and endorsed player was surely extra motivated by his sponsors especially to die on the court at RG with a decent contribution of organizers and fan base of his weirdos. It is sure that his body had to turn off after RG and he was not just ready for playing at Wimbledon. But let him some months off tennis for juicing his body and he will run on the courts as before. As we know that his game just does not depend on timing as much he will be able to come back soon at the top again, but surely that will be a bit harder for him. It is obvious that Nadal's team and doctors are able to get him together for a couple of weeks into the functional well running mode with a fair portion of chemistry, but that can not work for a long term period and many years. In addition to that his defensive habit plus playing from the background of the court withdraw their toll and his chances to succeed at GS except RG are getting low. So, that Frankenstein is going to come back and moonball as never again. He can win some masters, but his body's ability to resist such a moronic dogged defensive style for whole the season is unimaginable and his early losses at Wimbledon clearly show how his body and mentality struggles due to his enormous exertion and moronic game.

Having seen nearly the whole Fed's match, it is necessary to say that despite Fed did not play badly, Stakhy won deservedly. It was quite surprising to see a player who had a better net game and feeling for the ball than Fed on the same court. Those were not many matches, if any. Stakhy's S&V game looked impressive and I have not seen something like that for many good years and tbh it was the match worthy and nice to watch. I must say that Stakhy's serve was comparable with Fed and he had better key returns. But that match was won a better attacking player on the court with a better composure. Fed, as we could have seen him this year, looked irritated and upset, played too many shanks. He still has the game to play with the best, but due to his worse focus on the game he losses motivation with lower ranked players and when playing with TOP players he lacks consistency and struggles physically. What strikes me is the utter loss of composure of Fed on the court like he showed today in the comparison how he looks relaxed and speak nicely outside of the courts. This contrasts is getting bigger, so it is hard to say how the things are going with Fed. We have already got used to his poker face. 

Too many injuries and how to go on?

I have read an idea of Martina Navratilova to change the GS match format from BO5 to BO3 and thereby to protect players bodies from injuries. Me and many others here unequivocally would go in a way to speed up the conditions on the courts, especially on GS courts. 

We have a big paradox, because the current situation at tennis shows that Nadal who alone has set a new etalon fitness wise is going out soon due to his moonballing game. What is worse that due to slowing down the game many players had to adjust to that and many players also suffer from injuries as well.

So that, something just has to happen not to see a lazaret on the tour.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:25 am

I read that comment from Navratilova yesterday, and just like McEnroe, she is talking complete rubbish.
As for the surprise losses, I definitely did not expect Federer's loss, and may have underestimated Strakh, who, it has to be said,  did play the match of his life.
I have seen quite a few of his matches, and although he is a very good player with a nice game, what he showed today was quite above everything he has ever done on a tennis court.
I have a feeling he will lose to Melzer in the next round, as Melzer is happy to run and chase the balls.
I didn't see the whole match, actually not a lot of it, the end of the last set and a bit of first and second.
I am still super-happy Nadal lost in the first round, so that was the nicest possible surpise.
Without Fed, though, this Wimbledon has lost its magic.
Tsonga, another one of the attractive, attacking grass players is also out.
Not a lot of beauty left in the draw now and I really don't look forward to the final whoever's in it.
Naturally, I'd be happy if Nole won, but I think that Wimbledon's trophy somehow belongs to attacking single-backhanders who play all-court tennis.
So maybe today's loss will move something in some people's brains and get things changing back to encourage old-school tennis.
Nadal Evolution and Survival of the Fittest tennis will hopefully run its full course soon.

Tennis has paid a very high price for Nadal's  calendar slam "success".

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:44 am

But, having said all the above, there have been some nice surprises too today: Brown and Strakhovski won playing great tennis and Sharapova lost to an even louder screamer with an even worse bashing game.

Here is what Federer thinks about Wimbledon 2013 Fedal "surprises":

"Everybody was so obsessed with how the draw was before the tournament started. Now everybody wants to change their views on it because a few guys have lost. There's top players still left in the tournament, and there's a lot of young guys as well coming through, guys like Gulbis, Janowicz. Those sort of players are starting to break through and play more consistently…"

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Post by paulcz on Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:16 am

noleisthebest wrote:I read that comment from Navratilova yesterday, and just like McEnroe, she is talking complete rubbish.
As for the surprise losses, I definitely did not expect Federer's loss, and may have underestimated Strakh, who, it has to be said,  did play the match of his life.
I have seen quite a few of his matches, and although he is a very good player with a nice game, what he showed today was quite above everything he has ever done on a tennis court.
I have a feeling he will lose to Melzer in the next round, as Melzer is happy to run and chase the balls.
I didn't see the whole match, actually not a lot of it, the end of the last set and a bit of first and second.
I am still super-happy Nadal lost in the first round, so that was the nicest possible surpise.
Without Fed, though, this Wimbledon has lost its magic.
Tsonga, another one of the attractive, attacking grass players is also out.
Not a lot of beauty left in the draw now and I really don't look forward to the final whoever's in it.
Naturally, I'd be happy if Nole won, but I think that Wimbledon's trophy somehow belongs to attacking single-backhanders who play all-court tennis.
So maybe today's loss will move something in some people's brains and get things changing back to encourage old-school tennis.
Nadal Evolution and Survival of the Fittest tennis will hopefully run its full course soon.

Tennis has paid a very high price for Nadal's  calendar slam "success".
 
I completely agree.
Nobody could expect that Fed would lose with Stakhy for sure, these who bet on Fed have been taken to pieces. Their match has been one  of the best recently and it showed that when a player  is able to step in the court and dictate the game with Fed, then he has a  chance to succeed. Stakhy did it in a nice style.
The draw has been opened for many lower ranked players who can go pretty far. I am curious which player  can take his chance and give an addiotional extra effort and show a bit of cool head. Here is a chance and this Wimbledon does not have a clear favorite. The draw is pretty swept out and now it is up to players who should show what their ambitions and tennis games are. So, we have a new situation now and although great players like Fed, Tsonga left, there is still to watch others if they can use offered opportunities.
I do not think that it is the end of surprises at Wimbledon, so still we have a lot to watch there.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:56 am

paulcz wrote:
 
I completely agree.
Nobody could expect that Fed would lose with Stakhy for sure, these who bet on Fed have been taken to pieces. Their match has been one  of the best recently and it showed that when a player  is able to step in the court and dictate the game with Fed, then he has a  chance to succeed. Stakhy did it in a nice style.
The draw has been opened for many lower ranked players who can go pretty far. I am curious which player  can take his chance and give an addiotional extra effort and show a bit of cool head. Here is a chance and this Wimbledon does not have a clear favorite. The draw is pretty swept out and now it is up to players who should show what their ambitions and tennis games are. So, we have a new situation now and although great players like Fed, Tsonga left, there is still to watch others if they can use offered opportunities.
I do not think that it is the end of surprises at Wimbledon, so still we have a lot to watch there.

I am not totally sure about his cool head, but am hoping Paire is the one who makes it farthest in this half of the draw Love Blush


Last edited by noleisthebest on Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:57 am

Fed loss was lesser surprise to me than Nadal actually. Ndaal's percentage tennis is less prone to be taken apart that easily and especially against lower ranked players.

 Fed has been playing very poor off late and though this is his favourite surface, I wasn't going to be too shocked he he lost in QF. But 2nd round was indeed surprising if you looked at the score, but having watched the whole match, the result wasn't surprising in the end. Stakh played the best match he has ever played, he went for big even on 2nd serves, came to the net despite missing many volleys. In between all those he played fantastic, made Fed look slow and clueless. He never looked like he will get broken, very solid on serve.

Fed had his chances still, set point in the 4th set on Stakh's serve and he missed an easy ball.

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Post by paulcz on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:07 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Fed loss was lesser surprise to me than Nadal actually. Ndaal's percentage tennis is less prone to be taken apart that easily and especially against lower ranked players.

 Fed has been playing very poor off late and though this is his favourite surface, I wasn't going to be too shocked he he lost in QF. But 2nd round was indeed surprising if you looked at the score, but having watched the whole match, the result wasn't surprising in the end. Stakh played the best match he has ever played, he went for big even on 2nd serves, came to the net despite missing many volleys. In between all those he played fantastic, made Fed look slow and clueless. He never looked like he will get broken, very solid on serve.

Fed had his chances still, set point in the 4th set on Stakh's serve and he missed an easy ball.

I also think that Nadal's loss is a bigger surprise. Nadal had already got the early departure last year, so he should have taken a lesson from that. He seemed to be in well running mode at RG and spoke about his successful comeback. Nadal played very poorly and was utterly out of his sorts with Darcis.I saw only highlights from that match, but quite enough to see it.
Fed's match had amazingly heightening thrill after the third set, the key thing was whether Stakhy will be able to keep his game level and his serve. Tbh I thought that due to Fed's stubbornness Fed would step up more to the net and try to outplay him there. The real picture was quite opposite. Stakhy went to the net even on his second serve and played nice volleys. Fed got his chance when Stakhy's the first serve dropped to the end of the fourth, but Fed was too frustrated and overheated from many shanks and lacked of his composure. It seemed to be that if Stakhy miss his first MP then he will not take the TB in the 4th set. That was big surprise that instead of Stakhy's melting it was Fed who did not keep the nerves. This match was may be one out of few when somebody outplayed Fed at the net. Stakhy played with great feeling and cool head and deservedly won. When I see that a player shows great determination and goes for the win by his active game and keep his cool head with fair play, then I do not feel any disappointment or anger from any loss even if my favorite player lost. Congratulations to Stakhy for his great performance. He looks to be a nice character.

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Post by paulcz on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:14 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
paulcz wrote:
 
I completely agree.
Nobody could expect that Fed would lose with Stakhy for sure, these who bet on Fed have been taken to pieces. Their match has been one  of the best recently and it showed that when a player  is able to step in the court and dictate the game with Fed, then he has a  chance to succeed. Stakhy did it in a nice style.
The draw has been opened for many lower ranked players who can go pretty far. I am curious which player  can take his chance and give an addiotional extra effort and show a bit of cool head. Here is a chance and this Wimbledon does not have a clear favorite. The draw is pretty swept out and now it is up to players who should show what their ambitions and tennis games are. So, we have a new situation now and although great players like Fed, Tsonga left, there is still to watch others if they can use offered opportunities.
I do not think that it is the end of surprises at Wimbledon, so still we have a lot to watch there.

I am not totally sure about his cool head, but am hoping Paire is the one who makes it farthest in this half of the draw Love Blush

I have not seen much from the game of your the second man Big Grin, but he is a kind of player to whom it is not easy to play. He plays all-court tennis and changes often the game rhytm. The grass should suit his game nicely. I will look at him in his next match.

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Post by Tenez on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:33 pm

I disagree with those saying that Nadal was a bigger surprise. Fed was playing ok and it was hard to imagine that his streak of 36 QF would end in Wimbledon and his loss was considerably closer than Nadal.

As I said on the other thread I felt that Nadal was not really very motivated about Wimbledon and having no preparation (so important to him) showed a possibly lack of interest or hope. His fighting and anger on the court was also much more controlled than v Rosol.

I agree however that Stak represented a much greater danger to Fed than Darcis would ever had been and that it's not surprising that such a player woudl rush and panick fed a bit.....something not many players could do on grass.


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Post by paulcz on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:56 pm

Tenez wrote:I disagree with those saying that Nadal was a bigger surprise. Fed was playing ok and it was hard to imagine that his streak of 36 QF would end in Wimbledon and his loss was considerably closer than Nadal.

As I said on the other thread I felt that Nadal was not really very motivated about Wimbledon and having no preparation (so important to him) showed a possibly lack of interest or hope. His fighting and anger on the court was also much more controlled than v Rosol.

I agree however that Stak represented a much greater danger to Fed than Darcis would ever had been and that it's not surprising that such a player woudl rush and panick fed a bit.....something not many players could do on grass.


That could be an academical clash about which loss is a bigger surprise. It is also truth that a suprise after a surprise becomes not striking as the first one. But I look at their losses from the point of their recent performances, shapes and ambitions. After Nadal's strong proclamations how he came back after his break he definitely was on the wawe of excitement and underestimated the switch to grass and did not take a lesson from Rosol's loss, which is weird as he is alone.
Fed's last results were not great (except Halle), he struggled with focus and his ambitions gradually decrease, which is normal process in his current position. So, I expected that somebody from low ranked players on his day with great serve and active game can surprise Fed even on his grass.

If Nole or Murray ends  up then that will be not taken as such a surprise as it would be before Nadal/Fed quitting.

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Post by Tenez on Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:14 pm

paulcz wrote:If Nole or Murray ends  up then that will be not taken as such a surprise as it would be before Nadal/Fed quitting.
In fact I expected those 2 to lose before Fed for some reasons.

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