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The Best Grass Court Players Ever

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Post by luvsports! on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:42 pm

me?

current or ever?

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:45 pm

luvsports! wrote:me?

current or ever?

A question for all. Both current and "ever". And why. It's a nice topic.

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Post by luvsports! on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:56 pm

Agreed it's a very nice topic!

Ok well I will go by current best and favs to watch.
I only got into tennis in 03 with feds and haven't seen enough of past players so its fruitless me talking about that.

my fav players to watch on grass (that i have seen):
1) feds
2) henman
3) llodra
4) nalbandian
5) tsonga
6) haas

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:13 pm

luvsports! wrote:Agreed it's a very nice topic!

Ok well I will go by current best and favs to watch.
I only got into tennis in 03 with feds and haven't seen enough of past players so its fruitless me talking about that.

my fav players to watch on grass (that i have seen):
1) feds
2) henman
3) llodra
4) nalbandian
5) tsonga
6) haas

Not necessarily. I quite enjoy watching the very old clips on Youtube, it's fascinating to see the artistry with which tennis used to be played with in Laver's days.
I saw Nalby against Tipsarevic on C1 last year, he was pretty bad.
I'll repost those two links I have on this thread somewhere, lovely grass tennis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-BwXwUzMLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8IJ0F01IiU

But I agree, when Fed is on, he is high above all in every way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3FIe9yM63E

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:41 pm

Speaking of Nalbandian, not the greatest news:


"David Nalbandian appears to be out indefinitely after undergoing hip and shoulder surgery in May.
The 31-year-old Nalbandian, who is still using crutches and has yet to test his shoulder, does hope to eventually return to the tour, the website Fuebuena reports.
The 2002 Wimbledon finalist reached the Sao Paulo final in February, losing to Rafael Nadal. Injuries limited him to six matches since then."

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:38 pm

luvsports! wrote:cheers JS.

Ok you guys are clearly not convinced by gasquet. How about wawrinka or dolgopolov?? (two players are see as way more talented than nadal.
You are wasting your time. Those guys mix everything up. Toni said to Nadal when he (and Gasquet was young) that he'll never beat Gasquet by playing greater shots than him. He said to Nadal he'll beat him another way. Gasquet used to beat Nadal when young actually. That was before Nadal put his muscle coat on.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:19 am

Tenez wrote:Toni said to Nadal when he (and Gasquet was young) that he'll never beat Gasquet by playing greater shots than him.
Really? Can't remember this...


Tenez wrote:
Gasquet used to beat Nadal when young actually.
Apart from one match on Youtube, do you actually have any evidence that Gasquet continually got the better of Nadal when they were young?

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:27 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:
Apart from one match on Youtube, do you actually have any evidence that Gasquet continually got the better of Nadal when they were young?

What evidence to prove the opposite do you have from when they were young? One will do.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:04 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:
Apart from one match on Youtube, do you actually have any evidence that Gasquet continually got the better of Nadal when they were young?

What evidence to prove the opposite do you have from when they were young? One will do.
How on earth can one match be satisfying evidence to claim that one player was better than another when they were young...

That's quite possibly got to be the most ludicrous thing I've heard. If only one match between Roddick and Federer had been televised and put on Youtube, and that was the match in Miami 2012- would you also be saying that is representative of their levels during their professional career?

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:09 am

Let's be honest Noleisthebest; if Gasquet and Nadal had played 2 matches during their childhood, and they had shared it at 1-1 (in matches won), but the Nadal win had been televised and put on youtube- would you have also been so quick to claim that this one match must be taken as representative to go on in judging the whole affair.

Considering your nearly hysterical hatred, I highly doubt this would be the case.

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:25 am

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote: Are you a cult leader because it sure seems like you are trying to attract members to your anti-Nadal cult and honestly it is pathetic. Let people think for themselves, your views are not THE views and they are quite wacky. I think you are the only one who can't see it.

Of course they are THE views. It's just you aren't able or ready to understand and appreciate them.
One day you'll come back here and say: NITB, how silly was I once not to see Nadal was death of tennis like you did all those years ago.....smiley

Oh okay, is that what it is? Doh

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:28 am

luvsports! wrote:cheers JS.

Ok you guys are clearly not convinced by gasquet. How about wawrinka or dolgopolov?? (two players are see as way more talented than nadal.

Wawrinka is very talented but he also has a pea brain and is pretty weak mentally.

Dolgo? That guy is just a wacko, he is all over the place.

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:31 am

Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:cheers JS.

Ok you guys are clearly not convinced by gasquet. How about wawrinka or dolgopolov?? (two players are see as way more talented than nadal.

You are wasting your time. Those guys mix everything up. Toni said to Nadal when he (and Gasquet was young) that he'll never beat Gasquet by playing greater shots than him. He said to Nadal he'll beat him another way. Gasquet used to beat Nadal when young actually. That was before Nadal put his muscle coat on.

LOL, are you talking poorly about yourself again? Winking

I am still waiting for that link where Nadal said Djokovic is more talented than he is. I follow tennis fairly closely and I have never seen him say anything like that. He has said Djokovic is the best in the world, which would be accurate since he is number one, but he would not say Djokovic is more talented than him! I have also heard Nadal say Djokovic has the best ROS ever, but that is it.

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:34 am

Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:cheers JS.

Ok you guys are clearly not convinced by gasquet. How about wawrinka or dolgopolov?? (two players are see as way more talented than nadal.
You are wasting your time. Those guys mix everything up. Toni said to Nadal when he (and Gasquet was young) that he'll never beat Gasquet by playing greater shots than him. He said to Nadal he'll beat him another way. Gasquet used to beat Nadal when young actually. That was before Nadal put his muscle coat on.

He did? When and how many times? Link please. So why hasn't Gasquet the "super-talent" that he is ever been able to beat Nadal on the pro tour? Surely a guy with as much talent as you claim Gasquet has would have at least defeated Nadal a few times, no?

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:38 am

Julia Santamaria wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:
Apart from one match on Youtube, do you actually have any evidence that Gasquet continually got the better of Nadal when they were young?

What evidence to prove the opposite do you have from when they were young? One will do.
How on earth can one match be satisfying evidence to claim that one player was better than another when they were young...

That's quite possibly got to be the most ludicrous thing I've heard. If only one match between Roddick and Federer had been televised and put on Youtube, and that was the match in Miami 2012- would you also be saying that is representative of their levels during their professional career?

Good point. The NITB logic is a little out there it seems. Somersault

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:51 am

BlueClay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:cheers JS.

Ok you guys are clearly not convinced by gasquet. How about wawrinka or dolgopolov?? (two players are see as way more talented than nadal.
You are wasting your time. Those guys mix everything up. Toni said to Nadal when he (and Gasquet was young) that he'll never beat Gasquet by playing greater shots than him. He said to Nadal he'll beat him another way. Gasquet used to beat Nadal when young actually. That was before Nadal put his muscle coat on.

He did? When and how many times? Link please. So why hasn't Gasquet the "super-talent" that he is ever been able to beat Nadal on the pro tour? Surely a guy with as much talent as you claim Gasquet has would have at least defeated Nadal a few times, no?
That's the problem you have BC. You don;t understand much about tennis and in fact you are wasting our time. Making the relation #slams = #talent is simply ridicule and that is "your" logique". You don't understand that Nadal's chance increase the less talent plays a role. This is actually why he is doing well on clay cause there it is more of a physical battle than a talent one. Even the basic v2 poster knows that. Even Julia I am sure.

Gasquet was a prodigious player when young winning 3 of the 4 junior slams....So the talent is there cause he did not do thta with amazing fitness just with skills. If yuo are that interested in the fact  google yourself Gasquet Nadal as juniors you will learn a bit by yourself.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:52 am

Again Tenez, for some reason you don't address the points I made.

You based 'Gasquet used to beat Nadal when he was young' on a sample size of only one match- I don't think I need to point this out but to say whether one player 'used to beat another when  young' you need a greater sample size than one match. On top of this it was a very very close match played when they were both 13 years old, Nadal won the first set 7-6, and Gasquet came back to win the next sets 6-3 6-4 one break a set.
It's just another of lazy analysis from you where you rush to claim anything is evidence to what you are saying, irrelevant of whether it's a ridiculously small sample size with a very close match.

As for how they did in the juniors circuit- Gasquet did win 2 slams (not 3 as you say) when he was 16 years old in the juniors circuit. But Nadal never even played in the juniors circuit. From the age of 16 he was playing in the pro-tour, the level of which is much higher than the juniors. At the age of 17 he beat Federer in straight sets.

As for you 'quotes' I simply think you've made up quotes from Toni. Where does he say that he told Nadal that Nadal can't beat Gasquet with shots??

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:00 am

At least 2 matches actually. The one in youtube and the one on the ATP H2H...and I read of more. The one in 2003 Gasquet takes the first set 62 and then of course Nadal retires.

It;s when Nadal exploded physically in 2004 that things started to turn. You don;t want to see it and never will. Julia why are you letting the tainted bags being destroyed? Why don;t you want to know the truth?

Julia Santamaria certainly suits better than any previous pseudo! Good find!

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:28 am

So now you've got 2 matches, the one on Youtube (which was a close 3 setter when they were 13), and the 'one on ATP'.

Which one on ATP?:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N409&oId=G628

Nadal won the first match they played when Nadal was 17.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:32 am

Where are your quotes from Toni by the way?
Did you imagine them in your head or do you actually have a link.

The thing is Tenez, is that when you see new information you never see them as a chance to challenge your own views, but you just look to use it as a way to strengthen your pre-conceived ideas. That's the difference between you, and most other people in the world.

Your 'Toni switched Nadal to left hand to make him more physcial' line is just a disaster.
Here is the link:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1117130/Rafael-Nadal

This shows that Nadal played left handed tennis since he was young, left handed double handed tennis. (btw there is a difference between left handed double handed tennis, and right handed double handed tennis- the strongest hand is nearest the body on both FH and BH). Toni switched Nadal from a double handed left handed FH, to a single handed left handed FH. If not anything that makes it less physical.
Yet you totally ignore this, and continue to use your false misconceptions to back up your pre-held views.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:40 am

I point you where to find that 2nd match and you cannot see it. Typical case of one not wanting to see reality.

Julia.....you did not want to see who was on those 210 blood bags in Spain. That clearly puts you out of any reasonable discussion.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:49 am

You said the second match was on the ATP.H2H, I gave a link to that and no Gasquet win in 2003 was there...

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:52 am

Laugh And though its there on your link! Everybody can see bar you. Ask yourself why!

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:12 pm

I'm on my mobile and the H2H shows 10-0 to Nadal.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:13 pm

On tennis wetpoint though they have 10-1, but on ATP they just show 10-0. Weird.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:20 pm

scroll down.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:25 pm

I am redirected to this each time, where do I scroll down?


http://m.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N409&oId=G628

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:27 pm

Mobile ATP is pretty reliable for all ATP matches, maybe Gasquet won in a match outside the ATP tour?

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:40 pm

http://m.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N409&oId=G628

The ATP shows 10-0, but I messaged my friend who knows more about Nadal than me and he said apparently Nadal also once played Gasquet in 2003 and had to retire after falling and twisting his ankle in the first set.
I normally thought the ATP site were reliable, but clearly not in this instance.

Anyway Tenez, where are your Toni quotes? I have searched google and I can't find him saying anywhere that he told Nadal that he can't beat Rafa with shots.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:48 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:http://m.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N409&oId=G628

The ATP shows 10-0, but I messaged my friend who knows more about Nadal than me and he said apparently Nadal also once played Gasquet in 2003 and had to retire after falling and twisting his ankle in the first set.
I normally thought the ATP site were reliable, but clearly not in this instance.

Anyway Tenez, where are your Toni quotes? I have searched google and I can't find him saying anywhere that he told Nadal that he can't beat Rafa with shots.

Bottom line is, Nadal is less talented than Gasquet. Link or not, Toni or not. If you've got the eyes and the brains you can see it easily.
The only thing Nadal is better than Gasquet at is his movement, but that's not really a tennis talent.
If he was talented, Nadal would be playing attacking tennis, right-handed, and he wouldn't need any doctor's help.

The only truly talented Nadal is Toni, hats off to him for creating what he did and making all that cash out of his nephew.

I don't know why people are so sensitive to the world talent, really.

Loads of people have it, they just fail to fulfill it. Just like in the school days, you often have the less talented or untalented but diligent people overtake the talented ones in the long run. But that does not make them talented.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:15 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Bottom line is, Nadal is less talented than Gasquet. Link or not, Toni or not. If you've got the eyes and the brains you can see it easily.
Well this line doesn't really leave much space for compromise does it.


If he was talented, Nadal would be playing attacking tennis, right-handed,
What does being right/ left handed have to do with being talented? Bizarre idea.
As for 'attacking tennis'- are you saying Gasquet plays attacking tennis. I watch him a lot, and he's frustratingly defensive- the commentators always say he should try and attack more. He showed good signs against Wawrinka, I hope he continues down that path.
As for Nadal, did you see the stats from the French Open semi-final. He hit 61 winners to Djokovic's 54. In the last set he hit 22 winners to Djokovic's 13- even Djokovic said on Eurosport interview post-match that Nadal played aggressively in the right moments. I have watched that last set a few times as well, and counted this: Nadal hit the line with 6 of his winners, while Djokovic hit the line with 2.
What I wonder, is your opinion on this?


Loads of people have it, they just fail to fulfill it. Just like in the school days, you often have the less talented or untalented but diligent people overtake the talented ones in the long run. But that does not make them talented.
I would agree with this sentiment, I don't believe that it's necessary the most talented players are the most successful... predominantly due to mental strength in the highest level. I just don't think you're in any position whatsoever to make any sort of judgement given your hysterical and irrational hatred.

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:26 pm

Tenez wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:cheers JS.

Ok you guys are clearly not convinced by gasquet. How about wawrinka or dolgopolov?? (two players are see as way more talented than nadal.
You are wasting your time. Those guys mix everything up. Toni said to Nadal when he (and Gasquet was young) that he'll never beat Gasquet by playing greater shots than him. He said to Nadal he'll beat him another way. Gasquet used to beat Nadal when young actually. That was before Nadal put his muscle coat on.

He did? When and how many times? Link please. So why hasn't Gasquet the "super-talent" that he is ever been able to beat Nadal on the pro tour? Surely a guy with as much talent as you claim Gasquet has would have at least defeated Nadal a few times, no?


That's the problem you have BC. You don;t understand much about tennis and in fact you are wasting our time. Making the relation #slams = #talent is simply ridicule and that is "your" logique". You don't understand that Nadal's chance increase the less talent plays a role. This is actually why he is doing well on clay cause there it is more of a physical battle than a talent one. Even the basic v2 poster knows that. Even Julia I am sure.

Gasquet was a prodigious player when young winning 3 of the 4 junior slams....So the talent is there cause he did not do thta with amazing fitness just with skills. If yuo are that interested in the fact  google yourself Gasquet Nadal as juniors you will learn a bit by yourself.
 
Tenez with all due respect, you have to be one of the dumbest tennis analysts I have ever seen and that is saying something because there are a lot of dumb people on tennis forums.
 
I am still waiting for those links where Nadal said Djokovic was more talented than him. Not only do you post silly theories but it seems that you make stuff up as you go. Nadal never said Djokovic is more talented than he is. Why do you have to lie?

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:30 pm

noleisthebest

Bottom line is, Nadal is less talented than Gasquet. Link or not, Toni or not. If you've got the eyes and the brains you can see it easily.
The only thing Nadal is better than Gasquet at is his movement, but that's not really a tennis talent.
If he was talented, Nadal would be playing attacking tennis, right-handed, and he wouldn't need any doctor's help.

No he is NOT!

OMG, how is it possible that your comments get worse and worse as time goes on? This has to be one of the most clueless comments I have ever read.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:36 pm

BlueClay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:cheers JS.

Ok you guys are clearly not convinced by gasquet. How about wawrinka or dolgopolov?? (two players are see as way more talented than nadal.
You are wasting your time. Those guys mix everything up. Toni said to Nadal when he (and Gasquet was young) that he'll never beat Gasquet by playing greater shots than him. He said to Nadal he'll beat him another way. Gasquet used to beat Nadal when young actually. That was before Nadal put his muscle coat on.

He did? When and how many times? Link please. So why hasn't Gasquet the "super-talent" that he is ever been able to beat Nadal on the pro tour? Surely a guy with as much talent as you claim Gasquet has would have at least defeated Nadal a few times, no?


That's the problem you have BC. You don;t understand much about tennis and in fact you are wasting our time. Making the relation #slams = #talent is simply ridicule and that is "your" logique". You don't understand that Nadal's chance increase the less talent plays a role. This is actually why he is doing well on clay cause there it is more of a physical battle than a talent one. Even the basic v2 poster knows that. Even Julia I am sure.

Gasquet was a prodigious player when young winning 3 of the 4 junior slams....So the talent is there cause he did not do thta with amazing fitness just with skills. If yuo are that interested in the fact  google yourself Gasquet Nadal as juniors you will learn a bit by yourself.
 
Tenez with all due respect, you have to be one of the dumbest tennis analysts I have ever seen and that is saying something because there are a lot of dumb people on tennis forums.
 
I am still waiting for those links where Nadal said Djokovic was more talented than him. Not only do you post silly theories but it seems that you make stuff up as you go. Nadal never said Djokovic is more talented than he is. Why do you have to lie?
 
You are getting vulgar. We don't like that here. We don;t mind different opinions but neither have I called you stupid or dumb even if I this is what I think. So if you cannot use a moderate language cause you can't argue your points,....you will go. It's as simple as that.

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:45 pm

Tenez wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:cheers JS.

Ok you guys are clearly not convinced by gasquet. How about wawrinka or dolgopolov?? (two players are see as way more talented than nadal.
You are wasting your time. Those guys mix everything up. Toni said to Nadal when he (and Gasquet was young) that he'll never beat Gasquet by playing greater shots than him. He said to Nadal he'll beat him another way. Gasquet used to beat Nadal when young actually. That was before Nadal put his muscle coat on.

He did? When and how many times? Link please. So why hasn't Gasquet the "super-talent" that he is ever been able to beat Nadal on the pro tour? Surely a guy with as much talent as you claim Gasquet has would have at least defeated Nadal a few times, no?


That's the problem you have BC. You don;t understand much about tennis and in fact you are wasting our time. Making the relation #slams = #talent is simply ridicule and that is "your" logique". You don't understand that Nadal's chance increase the less talent plays a role. This is actually why he is doing well on clay cause there it is more of a physical battle than a talent one. Even the basic v2 poster knows that. Even Julia I am sure.

Gasquet was a prodigious player when young winning 3 of the 4 junior slams....So the talent is there cause he did not do thta with amazing fitness just with skills. If yuo are that interested in the fact  google yourself Gasquet Nadal as juniors you will learn a bit by yourself.
 
Tenez with all due respect, you have to be one of the dumbest tennis analysts I have ever seen and that is saying something because there are a lot of dumb people on tennis forums.
 
I am still waiting for those links where Nadal said Djokovic was more talented than him. Not only do you post silly theories but it seems that you make stuff up as you go. Nadal never said Djokovic is more talented than he is. Why do you have to lie?
 
You are getting vulgar. We don't like that here. We don;t mind different opinions but neither have I called you stupid or dumb even if I this is what I think. So if you cannot use a moderate language cause you can't argue your points,....you will go. It's as simple as that.

Do whatever you want. I guess that is the little bit of false power you think you have by trying to run a cult rather than a forum except you only have a few sheep who buy most of the nonsense you spew. If you want to ban me, ban me, if that is what makes you happy.

May I remind you, you started the insults by saying that I don't understand much about tennis and that I am wasting your time. It is all there in black and white so I responded by telling you what I really think about your "tennis analysis."

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:51 pm

I have seen plenty of people insulted on here with no action taken, unless the 'victim' of that is Tenez or someone he agrees with.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:52 pm

It is a fact you don;t understand (or you don;t want to see) the different parameters required to win a slam or simply to play competitive tennis.

It's not "theories" that a player requires a mixture of paramters such as talent, mental strength, stamina, power, etc... It is obvious facts that all posters here understand...bar you it seems. So I was not insulting, I was saying something pretty obvious. I articulate, you insult.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:54 pm

BlueClay wrote: Do whatever you want. I guess that is the little bit of false power you think you have by trying to run a cult rather than a forum except you only have a few sheep who buy most of the nonsense you spew. If you want to ban me, ban me, if that is what makes you happy.

May I remind you, you started the insults by saying that I don't understand much about tennis and that I am wasting your time. It is all there in black and white so I responded by telling you what I really think about your "tennis analysis."

BC,
that is not an insult, just a well-worded opinion. I remember that discussion and you continually failed to explain your view, it was just  a repeated statement. It takes a lot more self-restraint to be polite than to come and use unnecessary vocabulary that does not get the debate anywhere, just because somebody disagrees with you.

You seem to be a bit thin-skinned and take it a bit personally, which you shouldn't.

You have plenty of views but are not able to substantiate them with arguments, which is fine. NOt everyone has the insight and experience to be able to do it, in fact very, very few do.

Tenez is one of those people. He has an excellent understanding of the game and is happy to share it, which should be enjoyed not insulted.
There are plenty of "told-yo -so" types around various forums who come and go, and change their ID when they can't live up to their assumed grandeur.

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:58 pm

Tenez wrote:It is a fact you don;t understand (or you don;t want to see) the different parameters required to win a slam or simply to play competitive tennis.

It's not "theories" that a player requires a mixture of paramters such as talent, mental strength, stamina, power, etc... It is obvious facts that all posters here understand...bar you it seems. So I was not insulting, I was saying something pretty obvious. I articulate, you insult.

Really? Where were all those parameters and understanding of tennis when you predicted that Djokovic would win the FO without fail and that Nadal would never win a slam again?

Still waiting for those links where Nadal said Djokovic is more talented. LOL.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:58 pm

Anyway...

Tenez, these are a few points I would like you to address, and I hope me raising these issues does not insult you or make you offended:

-You claim that Nadal switched from left handed to right handed when he was 7 due to Uncle Toni. I have shown evidence from the most trusted encyclopaedia that Nadal despite doing most things right handed never actually played tennis right handed. I have shown that Nadal from a young age played left handed double handed game (and I believe I even explained the difference between left handed double handed game and right handed double handed game), and at the age of 7 the only switch Toni made was from double handed FH to single handed FH.
Do you think I am wrong, or correct? It's got to be one of the two.

-Your analysis of the stats I provided to NITB regarding the Djokovic vs Nadal match.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:00 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez is one of those people. He has an excellent understanding of the game and is happy to share it
If his understanding is so excellent then why does he always get everything wrong.
No doubt when Nadal does decline, Tenez will claim he's got it right all along- when in reality he's predicted it wrong 10000 times.

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:02 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote: Do whatever you want. I guess that is the little bit of false power you think you have by trying to run a cult rather than a forum except you only have a few sheep who buy most of the nonsense you spew. If you want to ban me, ban me, if that is what makes you happy.

May I remind you, you started the insults by saying that I don't understand much about tennis and that I am wasting your time. It is all there in black and white so I responded by telling you what I really think about your "tennis analysis."

BC,
that is not an insult, just a well-worded opinion. I remember that discussion and you continually failed to explain your view, it was just  a repeated statement. It takes a lot more self-restraint to be polite than to come and use unnecessary vocabulary that does not get the debate anywhere, just because somebody disagrees with you.

You seem to be a bit thin-skinned and take it a bit personally, which you shouldn't.

You have plenty of views but are not able to substantiate them with arguments, which is fine. NOt everyone has the insight and experience to be able to do it, in fact very, very few do.

Tenez is one of those people. He has an excellent understanding of the game and is happy to share it, which should be enjoyed not insulted.
There are plenty of "told-yo -so" types around various forums who come and go, and change their ID when they can't live up to their assumed grandeur.

I don't agree with you that Tenez has an excellent understanding of the game. For me he just seems like a self-appointed cult leader with very odd views who can't accept when sombody disagrees with him and can't admit when he is wrong--i.e. like his prediction that Djokovic would win the FO without fail. Where were his "smarts" then?

Re "told you so" types on forums, I have never changed my ID on any tennis forum in my life. I have had the same ID on ONE tennis forum for years.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:09 pm

BlueClay wrote:


I don't agree with you that Tenez has an excellent understanding of the game. For me he just seems like a self-appointed cult leader with very odd views who can't accept when sombody disagrees with him and can't admit when he is wrong--i.e. like his prediction that Djokovic would win the FO without fail. Where were his "smarts" then?

Re "told you so" types on forums, I have never changed my ID on any tennis forum in my life. I have had the same ID on ONE tennis forum for years.

He really does. 10/10.

As for predictions, I am sure you are aware of how pundits and "analysts" you seem to look up to regularly fail with their all the time. Does it mean they don't know their stuff?

It's a bit like weather forecast.

We like to observe the players and how they play the game, it's far more interesting than predictions which is just a game. Even my dad who hasn't got a clue about tennis can predict.


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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:13 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
It's a bit like weather forecast.

The best weather-forecasters can predict where the cloud is moving, not predicting every month that there's going to be a huge tornado which destroys the country.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:18 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
It's a bit like weather forecast.

The best weather-forecasters can predict where the cloud is moving, not predicting every month that there's going to be a huge tornado which destroys the country.

Again, tennis is bigger than Nadal. Much bigger.
The guy and his ways are more than mysterious. You, who have ordered destruction of doped blood bags should know that better than anyone.


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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:18 pm

This may get lost with all the posts not to do with tennis, so let me post it again:
Julia Santamaria wrote:Anyway...

Tenez, these are a few points I would like you to address, and I hope me raising these issues does not insult you or make you offended:

-You claim that Nadal switched from left handed to right handed when he was 7 due to Uncle Toni. I have shown evidence from the most trusted encyclopaedia that Nadal despite doing most things right handed never actually played tennis right handed. I have shown that Nadal from a young age played left handed double handed game (and I believe I even explained the difference between left handed double handed game and right handed double handed game), and at the age of 7 the only switch Toni made was from double handed FH to single handed FH.
Do you think I am wrong, or correct? It's got to be one of the two.

-Your analysis of the stats I provided to NITB regarding the Djokovic vs Nadal match.

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Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:19 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:


I don't agree with you that Tenez has an excellent understanding of the game. For me he just seems like a self-appointed cult leader with very odd views who can't accept when sombody disagrees with him and can't admit when he is wrong--i.e. like his prediction that Djokovic would win the FO without fail. Where were his "smarts" then?

Re "told you so" types on forums, I have never changed my ID on any tennis forum in my life. I have had the same ID on ONE tennis forum for years.

He really does. 10/10.

As for predictions, I am sure you are aware of how pundits and "analysts" you seem to look up to regularly fail with their  all the time. Does it mean they don't know their stuff?

It's a bit like weather forecast.

We like to observe the players and how they play the game, it's far more interesting than predictions which is just a game. Even my dad who hasn't got a clue about tennis can predict.


No, he really doesn't.

Stop trying to come up with excuses. You and Tenez were certain Djokovic would win the FO and that Nadal had no chance. How could the player who has won the most FO titles in history ever have no chance? I did not go around saying Djokovic had no chance to win the FO as that would have been stupid. I thought Djokovic had a good chance but Nadal had a slight edge.

Let's move on to Wimbledon. Do you think Murray and Nadal have no chance to win the title this year?

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:19 pm

NITB, I am not actually Julia Santamaria.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:24 pm

Julia Santamaria wrote:NITB, I am not actually Julia Santamaria.

Really?

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:26 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Julia Santamaria wrote:NITB, I am not actually Julia Santamaria.

Really?
Yes, really.

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