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Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:24 pm

I can't believe Ferrer made it into the final from that half of the draw. He's earnt it, and credit to him, will be going to the final pretty fresh, from the top off my head hasn' t lost a set yet.
Very poor match from Tsonga. He has improved his movement a lot, but Ferrer made him look really slow, beat him with such ease....


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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:26 pm

Tenez wrote:Watching Ferrer v Tsonga.....I actually coudl fancy Ferrer's chance on Sunday.

Yes, it;s wishful thinking but that is the only thing that may make me watch some of it.

Naah. It will be like the Acapulco final. I suspect Ferrer will have donuts for dinner as well.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:27 pm

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:And teh good news is that regardless of the Sunday result, Ferrer will overtake Nadal in teh ranking again!
Not for very long though. If David wins on Sunday, he will move ahead of Roger too. Kind of funny.

Terrible tought. Terrible

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by summerblues on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:38 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
summerblues wrote:If David wins on Sunday, he will move ahead of Roger too. Kind of funny.

Terrible tought. Terrible
Still better than the (inevitable) alternative.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:46 pm

Yes. the way Fed is playing these days, and his reults, Ferrer is doing better definifitely.

Commentators were saying its the first time since 2000 that Fed has come into RG without a single tournament win from the Year. He doesn't even have a final IIRC.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:37 pm

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:And teh good news is that regardless of the Sunday result, Ferrer will overtake Nadal in teh ranking again!
Not for very long though. If David wins on Sunday, he will move ahead of Roger too. Kind of funny.

Why do yuo see Nadal doing well outside clay? I doubt it....again. Even in this French open the only thing that saved him from an early exit is his ability to retrieve everything.....it's much harder on faster surfaces.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by sphairistike on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:23 pm

So the worst final possible has suddenly become reality Cry

Anyways, prognostics for both finals:

Nadal [3] wins in straight sets, Ferrer [4] winning 6 games or less for the entire match.

Serena [1] wins in straight sets, Sharapova [2] winning 4 games or less for the entire match.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:24 pm

Sphair, do you have any idea how many points you have?

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by BlueClay on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:25 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
They were brutal to watch for a Fed fan at least imo. Really showing his decline. I know you will probably disagree and that is fine.
I don't remember them, certainly not the brutality - those were Fed's losses to Nadal in IW when he played with the very bad back and in Rome where he didn't even bother much. The pain of brutality does not come from the way Federer plays but the physicality with which he is beaten.

He has played some excellent matches this year and less than a year ago in O2. And I know he will play some brilliant tennis in Wimbledon again.

The fact his game and serving are almost intact indicate his chronic back problem. That obviously affects him a lot, but I blink over the times when he plays through it. I don't relish in the fact he struggles. Just enjoy when he doesn't.
He is not going to be around for ever and I am trying to maximise the good times while they last. And will always support him and cheer for him never moan about the losses.
So I find it a bit upsetting when I see his fans complain about him esp after all the years of spectacular tennis he has given them.


We are all different and see different things and react differently. I don't enjoy seeing Federer lose to people he would never have lost to a couple of years ago. I will always support him but the truth is other players have surpassed him on tour now and are better than him (not more talented but better because Fed has declined a ton in my eyes.)

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:29 pm

BlueClay wrote: We are all different and see different things and react differently. I don't enjoy seeing Federer lose to people he would never have lost to a couple of years ago. I will always support him but the truth is other players have surpassed him on tour now and are better than him (not more talented but better because Fed has declined a ton in my eyes.)

How has he declined?
In which element of his game did you see decline in Wimbledon final last year?

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by BlueClay on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:29 pm

sphairistike wrote:So the worst final possible has suddenly become reality

Anyways, prognostics for both finals:

Nadal [3] wins in straight sets, Ferrer [4] winning 6 games or less for the entire match.

Serena [1] wins in straight sets, Sharapova [2] winning 4 games or less for the entire match.

Nadal in straights.

Serena in straights.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by BlueClay on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:31 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote: We are all different and see different things and react differently. I don't enjoy seeing Federer lose to people he would never have lost to a couple of years ago. I will always support him but the truth is other players have surpassed him on tour now and are better than him (not more talented but better because Fed has declined a ton in my eyes.)

How has he declined?
In which element of his game did you see decline in Wimbledon final last year?

Not the W final but overall--footwork, running forehands moving to his right, ROS, serve. EVERYTHING.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by BlueClay on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:33 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote: We are all different and see different things and react differently. I don't enjoy seeing Federer lose to people he would never have lost to a couple of years ago. I will always support him but the truth is other players have surpassed him on tour now and are better than him (not more talented but better because Fed has declined a ton in my eyes.)

How has he declined?
In which element of his game did you see decline in Wimbledon final last year?



If you want to see Fed's decline look at the Olympic final against Murray last year. That match clearly showed all of the areas of Fed's decline. Murray made him look old in that match imo.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by truffin1 on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:36 pm

Tenez wrote:And teh good news is that regardless of the Sunday result, Ferrer will overtake Nadal in teh ranking again!

that could be potentially bad news for Fed though- as Nadal at #5 could put him into a Fed/nadal quarterfinal.... Fed at 3 and Nadal at 4 would have guaranteed opposite halves.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by sphairistike on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:39 pm

BlueClay wrote:
sphairistike wrote:So the worst final possible has suddenly become reality

Anyways, prognostics for both finals:

Nadal [3] wins in straight sets, Ferrer [4] winning 6 games or less for the entire match.

Serena [1] wins in straight sets, Sharapova [2] winning 4 games or less for the entire match.

Nadal in straights.

Serena in straights.

That's easy tongueout Over/Under on the number of games?? Winking

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:43 pm

BlueClay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote: We are all different and see different things and react differently. I don't enjoy seeing Federer lose to people he would never have lost to a couple of years ago. I will always support him but the truth is other players have surpassed him on tour now and are better than him (not more talented but better because Fed has declined a ton in my eyes.)

How has he declined?
In which element of his game did you see decline in Wimbledon final last year?

Not the W final but overall--footwork, running forehands moving to his right, ROS, serve. EVERYTHING.

If you have declined in anything you can't perform like you "used to" before declining.
If your eyesight goes, you can't see well one week and need the glasses the next.

So Federer is either declined or has not declined.

He has played some sublime tennis this year where everything was at his on very lofty levels, and then had "unexplainable" dips in the following rounds against similar type of players, so to me the explanation is not decline but some physical problem, which is most likely his back.
Backache can hit you at any time, those spasms are very painful and debilitating, a bit like muscle cramping but affect the entire core area and legs; and I bet for a top athlete like him it's not even easy on the mind.

That's how I see it. His tennis is as good as ever as long as he doesn't have back problems causing discomfort and how he plays. We have seen him play through the pain, but it was not a pretty sight (against Nadal in IW). But se have also seen him play without pain (against Simon in Rome) and play some sublime tennis.

I just hope he can somehow heal the back but that is very very difficult with having to keep fit even during those months off he takes.

It is really sad his tennis has to suffer because of it, as I think Federer without backache would be beating anyone bar Nadal on clay.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:51 pm

BlueClay wrote:
If you want to see Fed's decline look at the Olympic final against Murray last year. That match clearly showed all of the areas of Fed's decline. Murray made him look old in that match imo.

Oh I see Fed declined in 3 weeks. From Wimby final to Olympic final, Federer took 3 years while the rest of us only aged of 3 weeks.


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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:53 pm

BlueClay wrote:

If you want to see Fed's decline look at the Olympic final against Murray last year. That match clearly showed all of the areas of Fed's decline. Murray made him look old in that match imo.
I actually saw that match live.
The court was a pit and had nothing to do with grass tennis to start with. Federer had a gruelling physical match against Del Potro the day before I think, and personally, I don't even think he was bothered about that gold medal.
He had just won Wimbledon, he was back at number one, he saw the mega keen Murray raring to blast away and run till his last breath, and I just don't think he was desperate, we know how he played a few weeks before that when he was bothered against the same player.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by BlueClay on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:55 pm

Tenez wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
If you want to see Fed's decline look at the Olympic final against Murray last year. That match clearly showed all of the areas of Fed's decline. Murray made him look old in that match imo.

Oh I see Fed declined in 3 weeks. From Wimby final to Olympic final, Federer took 3 years while the rest of us only aged of 3 weeks.


Federer has been on the steady decline since 2008/2009 but it has hit its apex in the last 8 months or so. You disagree and that is fine but I look at Fed's game now and see huge differences from when he was in his prime at his best. Doesn't even look like the same player except for shades of brilliance here and there.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by BlueClay on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:57 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:

If you want to see Fed's decline look at the Olympic final against Murray last year. That match clearly showed all of the areas of Fed's decline. Murray made him look old in that match imo.
I actually saw that match live.
The court was a pit and had nothing to do with grass tennis to start with. Federer had a gruelling physical match against Del Potro the day before I think, and personally, I don't even think he was bothered about that gold medal.
He had just won Wimbledon, he was back at number one, he saw the mega keen Murray raring to blast away and run till his last breath, and I just don't think he was desperate, we know how he played a few weeks before that when he was bothered against the same player.



Why do people have to make constant excuses for their favourite player? He had talked about wanting to win Olympic Gold as a main goal for the year, that and W. He looked very slow against Murrayin that match and it was not a good sign for me.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by BlueClay on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:59 pm

sphairistike wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
sphairistike wrote:So the worst final possible has suddenly become reality

Anyways, prognostics for both finals:

Nadal [3] wins in straight sets, Ferrer [4] winning 6 games or less for the entire match.

Serena [1] wins in straight sets, Sharapova [2] winning 4 games or less for the entire match.

Nadal in straights.

Serena in straights.

That's easy Over/Under on the number of games??

Serena in straights, something like 7-5, 6-3, one tight set and one not so tight.

Nadal in straights, something like 7-5, 6-4, 6-3.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:00 pm

I see huge differences too....from day to day due to a physical impediment...but as I explained it's not what I'd call decline.

Likewise you cannot see a decline between Ferrer 2009 and 2013, same for Haas who is even older.

As I said you are mixing up things. I realise Fed might not win anything from now....like Rios or Mecir had to quit also in the middle of their career but we should not mix up an injury with decline.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:07 pm

BlueClay wrote: Why do people have to make constant excuses for their favourite player? He had talked about wanting to win Olympic Gold as a main goal for the year, that and W. He looked very slow against Murrayin that match and it was not a good sign for me.

Well obviously he wanted the gold medal, just like they all do, some want it more than others, though. If Switzerland was really on his heart, he would have probably spent more effort in Davis Cup. His heart is not in all that kind of stuff any more, he is more like the citizen of the world when it comes to tennis in this final phase of his career.
I told you why I think he lost the OG final (in one of the posts above).
How do you explain that "he looked slow against Murray" in OG final and not in Wimbledon final?

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by summerblues on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:15 pm

Tenez wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:And teh good news is that regardless of the Sunday result, Ferrer will overtake Nadal in teh ranking again!
Not for very long though. If David wins on Sunday, he will move ahead of Roger too. Kind of funny.

Why do yuo see Nadal doing well outside clay? I doubt it....again. Even in this French open the only thing that saved him from an early exit is his ability to retrieve everything.....it's much harder on faster surfaces.
I do not know whether he will do well outside clay. He always wins everything on clay, so it is hard to predict his off-clay results based on that.

But he has pretty much nothing to defend after RG, and literally nothing after W, so even mediocre results will bring him extra points. Pretty much impossible for Ferrer to stay ahead of him for any length of time - short of another Rafa injury absence or sth of that nature.

He is certainly going to be shooting up the rankings; quite likely to reach #2 ultimately. #1 will be harder and will depend a lot on how Nole does.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:21 pm

Here's a bit of "declined" Federer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaXZSf0WT6g

BTW, how did Federer make it into this thread?

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:38 pm

summerblues wrote:He is certainly going to be shooting up the rankings; quite likely to reach #2 ultimately. #1 will be harder and will depend a lot on how Nole does.

He is so tough to predict:

He coudl have easily lost to Delpo at IW, lost quite convincingly to Nole in MC, could have lost to Ferrer in Madrid, Could have lost to Gulbis and Ferrer in Rome. Yes he has won everything almost since his comeback.

It's like today the number of balls that just about got a fraction of the lines on key points in that 5th set, really frustrating for a non-fan.

But anyway....I will keep believing that his luck will turn....and if he keeps scrapping balls right and left on HC for teh rest of the seaon he will get tired pretty quickly.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by gallery play on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:46 pm

Tenez wrote:
Tenez wrote:So it's going be GP v Tenez again!!!!

We rarely disagree but on key things like who will win the 5th set...I always backed Djoko.....Tough call maybe,....we'll see.

Well done GP you win that one!!! ...Not sure about the hands down though!



I wish i could say i was wrong.

And that freak is going for his 12th slam..

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:10 pm

It's the same story with Nadal...so close....yet so far.

I still have to find out what happened to Djoko in that 3rd set!!! Wasn't that the most bizarre behaviour?

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by summerblues on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:17 am

Nole really made a rookie error by talking about how he was going to win etc. Ok, he did not quite say it outright, but he was just adding pressure. He should have just kept quiet and try to have the racquet do the talking.

Some people may ease their stress by such bravado talk, but he is clearly not one of them. The pressure of the occasion was quite obviously getting to him today. He played by far his best tennis when he was behind and when it looked like he had little to lose. He was getting quite tense towards the end of the fifth.

That messed up overhead where he barged into the net was also telling. There was no real reason to touch the net, he just got overexcited; he made it very obvious he was being nervous. I think seeing that also helped calm Rafa down, who himself was clearly feeling it also.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:28 am

summerblues wrote:Nole really made a rookie error by talking about how he was going to win etc. Ok, he did not quite say it outright, but he was just adding pressure. He should have just kept quiet and try to have the racquet do the talking.

Some people may ease their stress by such bravado talk, but he is clearly not one of them. The pressure of the occasion was quite obviously getting to him today. He played by far his best tennis when he was behind and when it looked like he had little to lose. He was getting quite tense towards the end of the fifth.

That messed up overhead where he barged into the net was also telling. There was no real reason to touch the net, he just got overexcited; he made it very obvious he was being nervous. I think seeing that also helped calm Rafa down, who himself was clearly feeling it also.

Disagree completely.
Talk had nothing to do with this.
Nole played a good match, Nadal had unbelievable luck and umpire on his side in a few crucial moments.
And if anyone can talk the talk and walk the walk it's Nole.


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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:29 am

Tenez wrote:It's the same story with Nadal...so close....yet so far.

I still have to find out what happened to Djoko in that 3rd set!!! Wasn't that the most bizarre behaviour?

According to Nole: "..third set wasn't good. I dropped psychologically."

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:31 am

I wasn't watching parts of matches so was surprised to find out Novak asked the court to be watered and the ump refused.

Also, apparently on that net touch point, he could have overrulled and given Nole the point.


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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by summerblues on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:58 am

noleisthebest wrote:Also, apparently on that net touch point, he could have overrulled and given Nole the point.
Where did you see/read that? Never heard of that.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:32 am

summerblues wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Also, apparently on that net touch point, he could have overrulled and given Nole the point.
Where did you see/read that? Never heard of that.

I tried to find which article I read it in and couldn't, but I'm sure I saw it. Novak also said his interpretation was that the ball was out of play.

If the rule was the ball has to bounce twice, then so be it.

I wish the umpire was as religious keeping the 20 second between the points one, as well.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by summerblues on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:05 am

noleisthebest wrote:If the rule was the ball has to bounce twice, then so be it.
I am pretty sure that is how it is. The ball was still "in play" when he touched the net. Unfortunate, but that is life.

noleisthebest wrote:I wish the umpire was as religious keeping the 20 second between the points one, as well.
Agreed; the umpiring is pretty sad in this regard. Funny how they only docked Nadal a point on what, was it 40-0 with three set points and a 5:1 lead? It is almost better to ignore the rule altogether than to pretend you are using it but only apply it when it does not matter anyway.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:12 am

According to his interview, Nole's main complain is about the slippery courts not being wetted. And I must say this is what I found most strange watching him yesterday. He did not rally half as much as he usually does. He played being aggressive. He is good at it but like some of us have said (remember Paul) he is not good enough to beat Nadal on clay like that....like many before him when comes the crush time...they simply miss or mess up.

If on the other hand he had tired Nadal a bit more, by rallying, like he usually does, Nadal would have been easy to blast past in the 5th.

Was he scared to move on this "slippery court" or had he an impediment, not sure, but he did not move as much used to.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by gallery play on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:36 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:It's the same story with Nadal...so close....yet so far.

I still have to find out what happened to Djoko in that 3rd set!!! Wasn't that the most bizarre behaviour?

According to Nole: "..third set wasn't good. I dropped psychologically."

This is what i feared beforehand, this is what Nadal can do to his opponant. It's fighting a boxer who suffers an enormous punishment but keeps asking for more. At some point it's getting disturbing. Djoko is actually good at it too but not to the extent of the Nadanimal.

I 've seen a few games at the end of the fifth and you could tell Djoko was (unusually) getting dispirited. (or something like: "crikey, i'm more tired than he is"). AO 2012 was the turning point, NAdal strangely wasn't that disspointed after that final, imo because he saw Djoko's limit which was kinda comforting to Nadal.


Typical, talking about tennis but i can't help making links to boxing

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by gallery play on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:48 am

Tenez wrote:
Was he scared to move on this "slippery court" or had he an impediment, not sure, but he did not move as much used to.

I was watching on and off but to me he was struggling with the bouncy conditions too. He couln't handle the spin like he usually can and found it hard to stay close to the baseline. Surely this can be related to his bad footwork (slippery court).
Was this the first time they met on clay on a hot day?

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:14 am

gallery play wrote:
I was watching on and off but to me he was struggling with the bouncy conditions too. He couln't handle the spin like he usually can and found it hard to stay close to the baseline. Surely this can be related to his bad footwork (slippery court).
Was this the first time they met on clay on a hot day?

This is certainly true in the first 2 sets....but as soon as Nadal dropped his typical ridiculous energy level in the end of that 2nd set, Djoko was starting to tire him....and the more tired Nadal is the easier to handle...and even easier to tire.

I don't buy at all this psychological drop comment from DJoko.

Like all commentators at Eurosport we saw him twisting his body, not moving and so on....even the referee asked him if he was ok.....and though he recovered partially after the break he took (did he get an injection?) he never ran like we know he can. Even the 4th set was a miracle as he was very lucky to win that set....with many "Lucky" winners dropping on the line. He was kind of forced to play the agressor all along with short rallies helping Nadal to stay relatively fit till the end. So unlike Djoko.

If it was teh psychological tiredness was did he complain about court not being wetted? It's clear his mouvement was key to win...and he was limited somehow yesterday by slippery courts or else.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:27 am

Tenez wrote:According to his interview, Nole's main complain is about the slippery courts not being wetted. And I must say this is what I found most strange watching him yesterday. He did not rally half as much as he usually does. He played being aggressive. He is good at it but like some of us have said (remember Paul) he is not good enough to beat Nadal on clay like that....like many before him when comes the crush time...they simply miss or mess up.

If on the other hand he had tired Nadal a bit more, by rallying, like he usually does, Nadal would have been easy to blast past in the 5th.

Was he scared to move on this "slippery court" or had he an impediment, not sure, but he did not move as much used to.
Agreed.
However, this is why I think he actually lost the break he had in the 5th set: he was doing just that: rallying, spreading the court a la Simon with not much pace, but then Nadal did something he does not normally do and went for ripping winners and did not miss.
And I think he didn't miss because he was ready to play another 10 games no problem. Not drained as he usually is, of course thanks to different tactics from Nole.
His movement looked different to me during the entire tournament, not sure why, but definitely lacked his trademark speed also his BH was below his best.
I made a comment about Novak losing the battle with Nadal in the movement department somewhere in this this thread, I think it became very obvious in the 3rd and 4th set.
It's a shame the umpire never allowed the courts to be watered at least at 6all in the 5th set, like they do between the sets anyway, under the"special" instructions from the top, as usual.
The world surely got The Show.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:40 am

but definitely lacked his trademark speed also his BH was below his best.


That can certainly be attributed to Nadal.

Djoko played/moved badly but one thing for sure is that Nadal played amazig key BHs when it mattered....something we have to give him credit for even if there was some luck it it due to the fact that a few of them just about touch the line.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:02 am

Nadal definitely moves very, very well on clay, and yesterday played a bit differently than usual partly because Novak allowed him to.

I also felt that because of being so emotionally overwhelmed by the occasion, it affected Novak physically as well as it was quite draining for him to play like he did in the first set or two.

It was a combination of several things, not just one, but I can't help thinking that despite everything, Nole threw the match away.

Obviously credit to Nadal for reading the situation and acting on it. He is the kind of player who will go down in history as one that won so many matches and titles by just being ready to take what his opponents were happy to throw away, by sheer and amazing retrieving skill, which he can thank his legs for.

I saw it so any times before but yesterday it looked just as unbelievable as ever: the, on average, 3-4 clear winners needed to put him away.....and the psychological post-effect of those: the now legendary missing/netting of his opponents' overheads.
I don't know how they can stop themselves screaming from top of their voices in those moments.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:25 am

Yes we can praise Nadal but we can also note that he failed to serve it out twice in the 4th set throwing a couple of DFs iun the process. He also took heart to see Djoko struggling physically....had he seen Djoko as fit as usual....his moral would have slumped even more.

I would say we can draw all the conclusions we like out of this match....it's such a weird one.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:30 am

After seeing the post-match interview, I am even more annoyed the courts were not watered down.
If the court felt slippery for Novak, that can explain an awful lot why he both played and moved like he did.
He was very upset about it and said it himself, and I can understand esp after having just recovered his ankle.

For some reason I can't paste the link from RG website will try again.


Here it is: http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/multimedia/index.html click on the interview tab, day 13


Last edited by noleisthebest on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:41 am

Anyway, Wimbledon's around the corner....time to move on, although, such a shame RG played out like it did in the end, having offered so much promise at the start.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:57 am

Just saw that ate RG interview link does not show the bit where he complains about the court, but it does show on tennis.com ( further down on the page on the right.)

http://www.tennis.com/

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:26 pm

Nole:
"I spoke to supervisor Stefan Franzer after the match, and I was told on the court grounds people are the ones making final decision, and supervisor tells me he's the one who makes final decision on condition of court. It's a confusing situation. I was not asking to water the court because I want to make my opponent trip or do something like that. I was doing it for myself, because I felt that it got very dry and it was very slippery. There was also a lot of wind throughout the whole match, so the wind was taking out the clay from the court.

I thought I made a right argument at the time. And then I was basically, on every changeover from 4-3 in the fifth asking, 'You know, how long are we really going to play?' Because they couldn't really tell me. They say, 'Okay, we're not going to do it for a while.' But why? In the end, supervisor tells me, 'Yes, I go to the grounds people and I talk to them, and then, I can't make a decision if one player is saying yes, the other is saying no.' Like whose opinion has more value, really?"


Djokovic said that he respects the grounds crew, but believes watering the court would have only taken up to a minute.

"I believe it would change a lot because it would not be as dry and not as slippery. It was too slippery. Difficult to change direction. I think that it's wrong what they did."

Nadal:

"I don't feel it was slippery but everybody is free to ask the things. Is completely right that Novak ask for that. I didn't want water on court. So I just receive question from the umpire, and I say, I prefer not. But if they put water, I would not say nothing against."

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by Tenez on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:03 pm

noleisthebest wrote:After seeing the post-match interview, I am even more annoyed the courts were not watered down.
If the court felt slippery for Novak, that can explain an awful lot why he both played and moved like he did.
He was very upset about it and said it himself, and I can understand esp after having just recovered his ankle.

For some reason I can't paste the link from RG website will try again.


Here it is: http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/multimedia/index.html click on the interview tab, day 13

Djoko was not the same after his turned his ankle in the 3rd or 4th game of the first set. I think he tried to hide any problem but either that hurt him or certainly affected his confidence of moving on that surface.

In any way it's clear that Djoko doesn't slide as well on clay than on HC...and that weird.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by ... on Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:34 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:After seeing the post-match interview, I am even more annoyed the courts were not watered down.
If the court felt slippery for Novak, that can explain an awful lot why he both played and moved like he did.
He was very upset about it and said it himself, and I can understand esp after having just recovered his ankle.

For some reason I can't paste the link from RG website will try again.


Here it is: http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/multimedia/index.html click on the interview tab, day 13

Djoko was not the same after his turned his ankle in the 3rd or 4th game of the first set. I think he tried to hide any problem but either that hurt him or certainly affected his confidence of moving on that surface.

In any way it's clear that Djoko doesn't slide as well on clay than on HC...and that weird.

You don't miss a trick, do you!
Nole used to move better on clay when he was younger I think, although if the court felt slippery to him (like it did in Madrid) than it is not surprising he could not move better on it esp slide, otherwise he would not have caught himself in the net, would he?
I'll have to watch the replay of that point.

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Re: Match of The Year, Roland Garros 2013 (Semi)-Final: Djokovic - Nadal Prediction Thread

Post by summerblues on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:23 pm

That point was such a shame but he has himself to blame. He always struggles with overheads and yesterday was worse than usual. He should have let the ball bounce, there was no need to rush it.

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