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Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by sphairistike on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:28 pm

Shame for Fed but excellent for Tsonga! Congrats! Hopefully he won't disappoint us vs. Ferrer as a Tsonga vs. Nole revenge match for last year's QF would be good! Glad I picked Tsonga for the win as Fed showed vs. Simon it was bound to happen...

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by truffin1 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:29 pm

Fed almost looked too happy at the net, laughing-hugging Jo... Great sportsmanship or happy to be done with clay and onto grass?
I think it's easier for him when he knows it was clearly not going to be his day. At least he gets some extra time on grass and a chance to heal up more. He had no legs today or bite on his forehand for long stretches.
It's on Nole now! Go Djokovic!

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:29 pm

Tenez wrote:what's the score in the 3rd?

I did not watch it and it went very quickly. 5 sets with Simon....it;s all it takes to destroy Federer nowadays.

You could see his power was gone after that early break in the first set.

I think it was 6:4.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by sphairistike on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:31 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:what's the score in the 3rd?

I did not watch it and it went very quickly. 5 sets with Simon....it;s all it takes to destroy Federer nowadays.

You could see his power was gone after that early break in the first set.

I think it was 6:4.

6:3 as he got broken at the end again sorry

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:34 pm

noleisthebest wrote:What a strange match.
I can't say Fed played without confidence because he never stopped attacking to the last point, it could have been easily the other way, too: a few missed forehands (a bit unusual, so I thought he played with the wind behind him), and Tsonga looked more light-footed than Fed which was really odd.

What a shame.

Bring on some low bouncing grass....

I did not see that. It looked Federer was simply struggling to stay in the match.

He played today very similar to that Rome Final. Simply not in it....but it was not for lack of trying. It;s simply a fitness issue.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:35 pm

truffin1 wrote:He had no legs today or bite on his forehand for long stretches.

Yes...this is what I observed too.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:36 pm

The match went so quickly, it virtually slipped through Fed's hands. Difficult one to get your head around.
I don't know what happened to him in the middle of the first set he just slowed himself down and rallied with Tsonga unneccessarily.
I don't know what he was trying to do, should've kept pressing .

Easy to be clever after the battle, though...

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:39 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:What a strange match.
I can't say Fed played without confidence because he never stopped attacking to the last point, it could have been easily the other way, too: a few missed forehands (a bit unusual, so I thought he played with the wind behind him), and Tsonga looked more light-footed than Fed which was really odd.

What a shame.

Bring on some low bouncing grass....

I did not see that. It looked Federer was simply struggling to stay in the match.

He played today very similar to that Rome Final. Simply not in it....but it was not for lack of trying. It;s simply a fitness issue.

Too many of his backhands ended up in the net, that was the most obvious, and that he persisted with it rather than run around the forehand which he normally does.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:41 pm

I feel that when Fed is on...like a few patches v Simon that Fed still plays his best tennis ever....until he collapses.

It looks like we are going to be deprived of his best years because of his back. Look at Haas he is still playing well at 35. Fed looks out of it now.

Hope Tsonga goes all teh way now.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:47 pm

Tenez wrote:I feel that when Fed is on...like a few patches v Simon that Fed still plays his best tennis ever....until he collapses.

It looks like we are going to be deprived of his best years because of his back. Look at Haas he is still playing well at 35. Fed looks out of it now.

Hope Tsonga goes all teh way now.

I have just had a real deja vu feeling with this comment Yikes
I'm happy for Tsonga, but don't like his tennis on clay much.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:50 pm

Anyway, I shouldn't've got emotionally involved in this match...I'm all Sad now....

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:52 pm

A terrifying thought has just flashed through my mind: a Nadal- Ferrer final Wah

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Veejay on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:54 pm

I guess Roger is going to need a lot more then a lucky draw to win another major
Am disapppointed as he couldnt have asked for a better match up with Ferrer
Oh well,at least the quarter final streak is still alive

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:00 pm

crap matches at the FO of late.

Dmi/Djoko, Fed/Tsonga, Ferrer/Robredo, Djoko Haas, Nadalvtired/injured Stan....nothing to cheer about really.

The final Djoko v Nadal better be long and gruelling!

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:04 pm

Veejay wrote:I guess Roger is going to need a lot more then a lucky draw to win another major
Am disapppointed as he couldnt have asked for a better match up with Ferrer
Oh well,at least the quarter final streak is still alive

I dunno.

He shouldn't've lost this one. He faded away in the first set, you can feel he was overpowered by Tsonga and looked like someone from a different era, physically inferior.

Maybe he really needs to change the racquet, and if he does, he'd better do it asap! It's horrible to see a basher like Tsonga blow him off the court.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by gallery play on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:16 pm

Bummer, but i can't say i'm shocked.

Fed went in a very short time from being a winner, to a finalist, to a semi finalist and now a quarter finalist man.
Right now i'm not even sure he'll make it to the WTF.
The thing is in the early rounds he plays so beautiful which is why there's still hope he'll pull an upset but in reality his game is not so effective anymore against the better player. At least not for long.
BTW: in the middle of the third i saw him "chasing" a dropshot..boy he was slow. It seemed he needed to lean on his knee in order not to fall on his nose.

At least he lost to a nice player, and not Ferrer or Nadal

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:43 pm

"I think I struggled a little bit everywhere," said Federer afterwards. "To be honest, personally, I'm pretty sad about the match and the way I played.

"But that's how it goes, you know. I tried to figure things out but it was difficult, and Jo does a good job keeping the pressure on. He can serve his way out of trouble at times, and I think as well he was just better in all areas."

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:03 pm

Yes, sad is the word. For me the saddest is how he went, the net rushing heroics till the last point. Really impressive. They don't make 'em like that any more!
I hope he bounces back in Wimbledon.

Order of play for tomorrow:

Court Philippe Chatrier 1:00 PM

Jelena Jankovic (SRB) [18]vs.Maria Sharapova (RUS) [2]
Rafael Nadal (ESP) [3]vs.Stanislas Wawrinka (SUI) [9]

Court Suzanne Lenglen 1:00 PM


Maria Kirilenko (RUS) [12]vs.Victoria Azarenka (BLR) [3]
Novak Djokovic (SRB) [1]vs.Tommy Haas (GER) [12]


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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:43 pm

noleisthebest wrote:What a strange match.
I can't say Fed played without confidence because he never stopped attacking to the last point, it could have been easily the other way, too: a few missed forehands (a bit unusual, so I thought he played with the wind behind him), and Tsonga looked more light-footed than Fed which was really odd.

What a shame.

Bring on some low bouncing grass....

Federer will likely not defend W unfortunately.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:44 pm

sphairistike wrote:Shame for Fed but excellent for Tsonga! Congrats! Hopefully he won't disappoint us vs. Ferrer as a Tsonga vs. Nole revenge match for last year's QF would be good! Glad I picked Tsonga for the win as Fed showed vs. Simon it was bound to happen...

I think Ferrer will beat Tsonga.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:48 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:What a strange match.
I can't say Fed played without confidence because he never stopped attacking to the last point, it could have been easily the other way, too: a few missed forehands (a bit unusual, so I thought he played with the wind behind him), and Tsonga looked more light-footed than Fed which was really odd.

What a shame.

Bring on some low bouncing grass....

I did not see that. It looked Federer was simply struggling to stay in the match.

He played today very similar to that Rome Final. Simply not in it....but it was not for lack of trying. It;s simply a fitness issue.

It is not simply a fitness issue. He is old and has declined A LOT. In addition, I honestly think he has achieved so much that he really is not as emotionally invested the way he used to be. He has different priorities now with a family. I think he loves tennis and loves the adulation but he is not in it as much emotionally, that is obvious. He has contracts to ride out and I think he is prefectly happy doing so with a "whatever happens" attitude.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:51 pm

Tenez wrote:"I think I struggled a little bit everywhere," said Federer afterwards. "To be honest, personally, I'm pretty sad about the match and the way I played.

"But that's how it goes, you know. I tried to figure things out but it was difficult, and Jo does a good job keeping the pressure on. He can serve his way out of trouble at times, and I think as well he was just better in all areas."

This is the key, Tsonga was better in all areas today.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by paulcz on Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:59 pm

Congratulations to Tsonga for the great win with Fed. Jo-Wi played tactically great match, just not to give Fed a time to dictate the game and it worked in the similar way as Berd/Murray does. I am only suprised that Fed lost in straight sets, which is a bit „new“ and a bit disappointing when he got probably the best draw for RG ever. Fed's match with Simon showed that his fragile timing on BH side can get him into troubles easily and he already lost his speed when running around BH.
The match showed that Fed when playing under pressure lose his timing and calm pretty quickly. Personally I am sad that we lost probably the best possible final in RG.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by paulcz on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:02 pm

BlueClay wrote:
sphairistike wrote:Shame for Fed but excellent for Tsonga! Congrats! Hopefully he won't disappoint us vs. Ferrer as a Tsonga vs. Nole revenge match for last year's QF would be good! Glad I picked Tsonga for the win as Fed showed vs. Simon it was bound to happen...

I think Ferrer will beat Tsonga.

So do I. Feru seems to be playing in a very good form.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by paulcz on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:06 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, sad is the word. For me the saddest is how he went, the net rushing heroics till the last point. Really impressive. They don't make 'em like that any more!
I hope he bounces back in Wimbledon.


I think that Fed resigned a bit in his match today and already started thinking about Wimbledon. There is his only chance at GS.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by sphairistike on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:34 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, sad is the word. For me the saddest is how he went, the net rushing heroics till the last point. Really impressive. They don't make 'em like that any more!
I hope he bounces back in Wimbledon.

Order of play for tomorrow:

Court Philippe Chatrier 1:00 PM

Jelena Jankovic (SRB) [18]vs.Maria Sharapova (RUS) [2]
Rafael Nadal (ESP) [3]vs.Stanislas Wawrinka (SUI) [9]

Court Suzanne Lenglen 1:00 PM


Maria Kirilenko (RUS) [12]vs.Victoria Azarenka (BLR) [3]
Novak Djokovic (SRB) [1]vs.Tommy Haas (GER) [12]


My picks for day 11 (please move them to the proper thread):

Jelena Jankovic (SRB) [18]
Rafael Nadal (ESP) [3]
Maria Kirilenko (RUS) [12]
Tommy Haas (GER) [12]

(funny I wish I'm wrong on all my men matches)

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by sphairistike on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:42 pm

BlueClay wrote:
sphairistike wrote:Shame for Fed but excellent for Tsonga! Congrats! Hopefully he won't disappoint us vs. Ferrer as a Tsonga vs. Nole revenge match for last year's QF would be good! Glad I picked Tsonga for the win as Fed showed vs. Simon it was bound to happen...

I think Ferrer will beat Tsonga.

Quite possible but let's hope not. As we all know that Ferrer stands no chance in the final, no matter who he meets. Tsonga could win it on a good day and it would be nice to have a French winner since Noah. Also, winning it by avenging his loss from last year when he had 4 MPs vs. Nole would be even sweeter.

Nitb said it best:

noleisthebest wrote:A terrifying thought has just flashed through my mind: a Nadal- Ferrer final Wah

And the way to guarantee this won't happen is a Tsonga win in the SF. Or a Nole win, but a Nole vs. Ferrer final won't bring anyone to the tribunes to watch it (I mean people already paid to come and watch but it won't be a match that people could really get excited to the idea of watching...)

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:50 pm

paulcz wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Yes, sad is the word. For me the saddest is how he went, the net rushing heroics till the last point. Really impressive. They don't make 'em like that any more!
I hope he bounces back in Wimbledon.


I think that Fed resigned a bit in his match today and already started thinking about Wimbledon. There is his only chance at GS.

What makes you think he resigned?

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:19 pm

BlueClay wrote:

It is not simply a fitness issue. He is old and has declined A LOT. In addition, I honestly think he has achieved so much that he really is not as emotionally invested the way he used to be. He has different priorities now with a family. I think he loves tennis and loves the adulation but he is not in it as much emotionally, that is obvious. He has contracts to ride out and I think he is prefectly happy doing so with a "whatever happens" attitude.

I think it's a bit over the top to say he declined and A LOT at that.
His game is all there, even the serve was good, give credit to Tsonga who was returning it well. Fed's game works well on all surfaces, but least well on clay.
This year, due to prioritising Wimbledon, he did not play that much on clay, missed a few tournaments, and you could see it cost him in general match- sharpness.
In addition, he may have prepared for clay by adding a bit of strength/bulk to his upper body, and in exchange, just lost a touch of his trademark quicksilver footwork laterally.
You could see today he is the type of player not used to defending much and Tsonga maximised on the 1st set lead and bashed the ball wide and hard.
He actually said he copied and pulled off Nadal's tactics today, and that thought did cross my mind in a few points where he was pounding Fed's forehand hard and wider and wider every time.

My only hope is that this loss has not dented his confidence on any deep level.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:51 pm

sphairistike wrote:
My picks for day 11 (please move them to the proper thread):

Jelena Jankovic (SRB) [18]
Rafael Nadal (ESP) [3]
Maria Kirilenko (RUS) [12]
Tommy Haas (GER) [12]

(funny I wish I'm wrong on all my men matches)



Huh? Those are your winning picks for tomorrow?

I pick Sharapova, Nadal, Azarenka and Djokovic.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:56 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:

It is not simply a fitness issue. He is old and has declined A LOT. In addition, I honestly think he has achieved so much that he really is not as emotionally invested the way he used to be. He has different priorities now with a family. I think he loves tennis and loves the adulation but he is not in it as much emotionally, that is obvious. He has contracts to ride out and I think he is prefectly happy doing so with a "whatever happens" attitude.

I think it's a bit over the top to say he declined and A LOT at that.
His game is all there, even the serve was good
, give credit to Tsonga who was returning it well. Fed's game works well on all surfaces, but least well on clay.
This year, due to prioritising Wimbledon, he did not play that much on clay, missed a few tournaments, and you could see it cost him in general match- sharpness.
In addition, he may have prepared for clay by adding a bit of strength/bulk to his upper body, and in exchange, just lost a touch of his trademark quicksilver footwork laterally.
You could see today he is the type of player not used to defending much and Tsonga maximised on the 1st set lead and bashed the ball wide and hard.
He actually said he copied and pulled off Nadal's tactics today, and that thought did cross my mind in a few points where he was pounding Fed's forehand hard and wider and wider every time.

My only hope is that this loss has not dented his confidence on any deep level.

I totally give credit to Tsonga for the win today, Tsonga player better in every way but imo Federer has declined in every way and a lot. I am sorry, I am not going to sugar coat it any more. Federer is the greatest but he is a shadow of his former self and has been for a couple of years. He has not been consistent at the slams for over 2 1/2 years now, he is not going to magically start winning slams. I think he is done winning slams, maybe if he gets really lucky he could win one more and for me that would be over and above my expectations for him now. I don't see how he is going to win W but I hope I am wrong.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:16 pm

BC,
I think you are unfairly judging Fed's game by exclusively through his results.

You say he's old, you probably said the same last year and look at his results last year!
Has anything changed in his game?
I say no.

The lack of results this year comes mainly from the reduced schedule which has probably unplannedly and unexpectedly showed him he cannot pick up the game with 2 month long breaks that easily any more, mainly because the game has become quite physical.

Look at how many matches Nadal has played this year in order to catch up with the 7 month hiatus and he is still not where he was before.

At that level, hunger is the main ingredient or spice, and Fed is obviously saving his appetite for Wimbledon, which does not mean he didn't want or try to win today or that he has declined.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:51 pm

Blueclay reminds me Socal.

I read his opinions but I feel a bit short changed when those views needs to be backed up.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by summerblues on Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:36 am

That was a rather anticlimactic end to the great man's campaign. I am almost glad I did not get to see it. He had a fabulous draw. Jo was really the only serious threat all the way to the final, but Roger could not even overcome this one threat. Too bad.

He was also likely the only SHBH with a realistic chance. Now it is most likely that all four SHBHs that made it to the QFs will bow out here.

Normally I am not a huge fan of Tsonga's, but from among the players who have at least a glimmer of hope to win the title, he is certainly my favorite now, so will be rooting for him. Unfortunately, he is probably the underdog against little David Sad

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:16 am

noleisthebest wrote:BC,
I think you are unfairly judging Fed's game by exclusively through his results.

You say he's old, you probably said the same last year and look at his results last year!
Has anything changed in his game?
I say no.

The lack of results this year comes mainly from the reduced schedule which has probably unplannedly and unexpectedly showed him he cannot pick up the game with 2 month long breaks that easily any more, mainly because the game has become quite physical.

Look at how many matches Nadal has played this year in order to catch up with the 7 month hiatus and he is still not where he was before.

At that level, hunger is the main ingredient or spice, and Fed is obviously saving his appetite for Wimbledon, which does not mean he didn't want or try to win today or that he has declined.

NITB, you can make whatever excuses you wish or think whatever you wish with respect to Federer but for me I am looking at the reality. How many slams has Federer won in the past three years. How many slam finals has he made? Wimbledon last year was an anomaly and he will very likely not repeat it. If you want to get your hopes up and think Federer will win W, go ahead. I am off that train of delusion myself. If Federer happens to prove me wrong just like he did by winning W last year, that will be great but I do not expect any more slam wins. if they come, it is gravy baby.

With respect to Fed's decline, there is no question he has declined and he has declined a lot in every aspect of his game. Today's performance was awful in every way. If you don't agree or don't see it, that is fine. That is why we have tennis forums, to discuss these issues and clearly not everybody will agree.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:20 am

Tenez wrote:Blueclay reminds me Socal.

I read his opinions but I feel a bit short changed when those views needs to be backed up.

That is fine Tenez but with respect, when I read many of your posts I am wondering if we are watching the same game of tennis or not.

Let's see what happens in the next five days at RG. For me Serena will win the women's title and Nadal or Djokovic will win the men's.

With respect to W, too early to tell who will win it but I am going to stick my neck out now and say Federer will not win it. You can laugh at me if I am wrong in a few weeks!

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:21 am

summerblues wrote:That was a rather anticlimactic end to the great man's campaign. I am almost glad I did not get to see it. He had a fabulous draw. Jo was really the only serious threat all the way to the final, but Roger could not even overcome this one threat. Too bad.

He was also likely the only SHBH with a realistic chance. Now it is most likely that all four SHBHs that made it to the QFs will bow out here.

Normally I am not a huge fan of Tsonga's, but from among the players who have at least a glimmer of hope to win the title, he is certainly my favorite now, so will be rooting for him. Unfortunately, he is probably the underdog against little David

Agree. I think it will probably be a Ferrer/Nadal or Ferrer/Djokovic final.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:42 am

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:

It is not simply a fitness issue. He is old and has declined A LOT. In addition, I honestly think he has achieved so much that he really is not as emotionally invested the way he used to be. He has different priorities now with a family. I think he loves tennis and loves the adulation but he is not in it as much emotionally, that is obvious. He has contracts to ride out and I think he is prefectly happy doing so with a "whatever happens" attitude.

I think it's a bit over the top to say he declined and A LOT at that.
His game is all there, even the serve was good, give credit to Tsonga who was returning it well. Fed's game works well on all surfaces, but least well on clay.
This year, due to prioritising Wimbledon, he did not play that much on clay, missed a few tournaments, and you could see it cost him in general match- sharpness.
In addition, he may have prepared for clay by adding a bit of strength/bulk to his upper body, and in exchange, just lost a touch of his trademark quicksilver footwork laterally.
You could see today he is the type of player not used to defending much and Tsonga maximised on the 1st set lead and bashed the ball wide and hard.
He actually said he copied and pulled off Nadal's tactics today, and that thought did cross my mind in a few points where he was pounding Fed's forehand hard and wider and wider every time.

My only hope is that this loss has not dented his confidence on any deep level.

I'll have to agree with BC, Fed has declined a LOT from what he was in 2006-07. In fact he has declined considerably even from what he was in 2010-11. Maybe its his back or his age or lack of ability to recover from long matches, but he just isn't able to play the way he could. Hi server has weakened and he doesn't get those cheap points. I can give credit to Tsonga for playing well, but it wasn't even like he was playing lights out. Fed was simply too weak to offer resistance. It wrong to say he isn't the type of player who is not used to defending much. Fed's defences were brillaint once. But the fact is, he as an overall player has declined.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:35 am

BlueClay wrote:With respect to W, too early to tell who will win it but I am going to stick my neck out now and say Federer will not win it. You can laugh at me if I am wrong in a few weeks!

I would not call this "sticking your neck out"....Certainly not the way Federer lost yesterday, without even being able to fight.

The question for me is not so much will he win, or won't he, it's can he play his game or not....and looks like he simply cannot.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:43 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:

It is not simply a fitness issue. He is old and has declined A LOT. In addition, I honestly think he has achieved so much that he really is not as emotionally invested the way he used to be. He has different priorities now with a family. I think he loves tennis and loves the adulation but he is not in it as much emotionally, that is obvious. He has contracts to ride out and I think he is prefectly happy doing so with a "whatever happens" attitude.

I think it's a bit over the top to say he declined and A LOT at that.
His game is all there, even the serve was good, give credit to Tsonga who was returning it well. Fed's game works well on all surfaces, but least well on clay.
This year, due to prioritising Wimbledon, he did not play that much on clay, missed a few tournaments, and you could see it cost him in general match- sharpness.
In addition, he may have prepared for clay by adding a bit of strength/bulk to his upper body, and in exchange, just lost a touch of his trademark quicksilver footwork laterally.
You could see today he is the type of player not used to defending much and Tsonga maximised on the 1st set lead and bashed the ball wide and hard.
He actually said he copied and pulled off Nadal's tactics today, and that thought did cross my mind in a few points where he was pounding Fed's forehand hard and wider and wider every time.

My only hope is that this loss has not dented his confidence on any deep level.

I'll have to agree with BC, Fed has declined a LOT from what he was in 2006-07. In fact he has declined considerably even from what he was in 2010-11. Maybe its his back or his age or lack of ability to recover from long matches, but he just isn't able to play the way he could. Hi server has weakened and he doesn't get those cheap points. I can give credit to Tsonga for playing well, but it wasn't even like he was playing lights out. Fed was simply too weak to offer resistance. It wrong to say he isn't the type of player who is not used to defending much. Fed's defences were brillaint once. But the fact is, he as an overall player has declined.

I cannot agree with the word "decline". It's clearly the wrong one as Fed is capable of playing better than 2006/7 and as well as 2010/11. Just last year in the first 6 months of 2012 he was playing fantastic. You could still see him despatch Simon yesterday for patches in a more efficient way than in 2008 when he was beaten by him twice in a row. Haas at 34 or 35 does not seem to have declined yet. So I don't think we can say decline of a 31yo yet.

I'd simply say that his back prevents him from playing his A game day in day out. Maybe we can call that decline...I don't.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:56 am

Haas at 35 can't be compared here. Haas never reached the levels and success Fed has. So Haas is doing good but good enough by his own standards.

But for Fed and by his own standards, Fed is doing very poor. It may be because his bad back or whatever, but simply put he just doesn't look/play like a slam winner.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:19 am

Then you are talking about his results declining. Of course his results have declined. His consistency has "declined" or dropped. You can say that.

For me declining is when the tennis kills have declined. I don't see it. Even yesterday he was able to play amazing volley in order to shorten the rallies. Those volleys were not as good in 2006/7 for instance. We did not say Nadal declined cause he took 7 months off. In fact he has returned as fit as before.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by paulcz on Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:07 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
paulcz wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Yes, sad is the word. For me the saddest is how he went, the net rushing heroics till the last point. Really impressive. They don't make 'em like that any more!
I hope he bounces back in Wimbledon.


I think that Fed resigned a bit in his match today and already started thinking about Wimbledon. There is his only chance at GS.

What makes you think he resigned?

Not enough determination and low selfconfidence that he can turn around the match as he showed with Murray in last Wimbledon final. After the first set that match was determined who will win. His body language and face expressions were not optimistic at all, which lasts from this year AO.

Fed plays practically still the same game and the matches only differ from what an opponent allows him to do on the court. Players like Simon, does not have strokes which can get Fed under constant pressure. It is ridiculous that just that Simon was that one, who cost Fed too much in their previous 5 setter match to be fresher for Tsonga match.

I saw the higlights from the match in the late evening again and must say that Fed was not poor, but Jo-Wi played his best match ever. There were many balls where Jo-Wi showed better feelings and reflexes at the net or reading the game. Excellent match from Jo-Wi.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:51 pm

Back to my "importance of love" theory, I am sure Fed would have lasted longer in the match had the crowd given him a few Ro-ger! Ro-ger! moments like they did against Simon.
But I can't blame them for wanting their home player to win.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:59 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Back to my "importance of love" theory, I am sure Fed would have lasted longer in the match had the crowd given him a few Ro-ger! Ro-ger! moments like they did against Simon.
But I can't blame them for wanting their home player to win.

Maybe but it would not have given him a new body. I don't think we can speculate much on the reasons why he did not fight. I simply think he could not fight. As simple as that. His rushes to the net are typical of someone who cannot slug it out and just tries his chance.

I read in an interview recently where he is asked to comment on Nadal's 7 months break and how it helped him recover fully. Fed said something like it's "what we all should do" insinuating that he could do with a long break too to heal. Maybe that's what he needs. I feel that he might do something after Wimby.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:12 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:[
I'll have to agree with BC, Fed has declined a LOT from what he was in 2006-07. In fact he has declined considerably even from what he was in 2010-11. Maybe its his back or his age or lack of ability to recover from long matches, but he just isn't able to play the way he could. Hi server has weakened and he doesn't get those cheap points. I can give credit to Tsonga for playing well, but it wasn't even like he was playing lights out. Fed was simply too weak to offer resistance. It wrong to say he isn't the type of player who is not used to defending much. Fed's defences were brillaint once. But the fact is, he as an overall player has declined.

Yes, he has declined in every aspect of his game a lot. I know it is hard to admit as a Federer fan and it took me a while to admit it to myself, but it is what it is.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:14 pm

Tenez wrote:For me declining is when the tennis kills have declined. I don't see it. Even yesterday he was able to play amazing volley in order to shorten the rallies. Those volleys were not as good in 2006/7 for instance. We did not say Nadal declined cause he took 7 months off. In fact he has returned as fit as before.

No offense, but if you can't see it, I think you need to take off the rose-coloured glasses.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:16 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Back to my "importance of love" theory, I am sure Fed would have lasted longer in the match had the crowd given him a few Ro-ger! Ro-ger! moments like they did against Simon.
But I can't blame them for wanting their home player to win.

Maybe but it would not have given him a new body. I don't think we can speculate much on the reasons why he did not fight. I simply think he could not fight. As simple as that. His rushes to the net are typical of someone who cannot slug it out and just tries his chance.

I read in an interview recently where he is asked to comment on Nadal's 7 months break and how it helped him recover fully. Fed said something like it's "what we all should do" insinuating that he could do with a long break too to heal. Maybe that's what he needs. I feel that he might do something after Wimby.

That would be the worst thing Federer could do at this point. If he took a seven month break, he would be out of the top ten imo.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by BlueClay on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:20 pm

Tenez wrote:
BlueClay wrote:With respect to W, too early to tell who will win it but I am going to stick my neck out now and say Federer will not win it. You can laugh at me if I am wrong in a few weeks!

I would not call this "sticking your neck out"....Certainly not the way Federer lost yesterday, without even being able to fight.

The question for me is not so much will he win, or won't he, it's can he play his game or not....and looks like he simply cannot.

Yes, I know it is not sticking my neck out to say Federer will not defend his W title, it is just that many people are going on like he has a great chance to win it and I think they are bonkers. He will be lucky to make it to the QF or SF.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

Post by paulcz on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:33 pm

Tenez wrote:
For me declining is when the tennis kills have declined. I don't see it. Even yesterday he was able to play amazing volley in order to shorten the rallies. Those volleys were not as good in 2006/7 for instance. We did not say Nadal declined cause he took 7 months off. In fact he has returned as fit as before.


Ten, Fed will be able play an amazing volley even at his sixties, so that amazing volley can't be a gauge, that his game did not decline. Fed can play with his great elegancy still till his 40, but his chance to succeed is going to drop rapidly since this year.

Nadal's game is quite different story. His game is not dependant on fast timing, he needs to hit just powerfully regardless when. So, his muscles allow him to be still at the top even after 7 months break. Fed's game is much more fragile in regard to his worse timing and move.

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Re: Roland Garros 2013: Day 10

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